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[Strike]

Throughout Mass Effect 1, 2, and their novels based on the universe we have seen many Cerberus actions which are morally questionable.

These actions include:

• Luring thresher maws to Akuze and releasing them on 50 Alliance soldiers.
• Capturing the survivor of the attack, Corporal Toombs, to conduct further experiments.
• Attempting to replicate Akuze by creating a false distress call which would lead to a thresher maw nest.
• Assassinating a political leader, Claude Menneau, in order for another candidate to take his place in Terra Firma.
• Deliberately destroying a freighter of element zero over the colony of Yandoa causing children to be born with birth defects and/or biotics. The colony also experienced four months of industrial ‘accidents’ beforehand.
• Revitalizing Commander Shepard, someone who was medically dead, using ethically dubious medical techniques without consent.
• Buying human children slaves from Batarian slavers or poor families and then proceeding to brutally torture them in experiments.
• Experimenting on rachni and Thorian Creepers.
• Deliberately destroyed a settlement on Chasca and turned all colonists into husks.

What are or could be Cerberus’ motives behind these actions? Can all of these acts be justified by Cerberus’ motives behind them? Do these motives make you believe that what Cerberus did was right? What would you think of an organization like Cerberus if it existed now?
Discuss.

[legbamel]

I'll answer the whole post in a single word: no.

[Strike]

legbamel wrote...

I'll answer the whole post in a single word: no.

Thank you for the discussion.

[Collider]

Absolutely not. Cerberus is not justified. You can never justify experimentation on children, for god's sake.



Saving Shepard's life wasn't that bad - unless I am unaware that were immoral sacrifices in the process of it.

[Onyx Jaguar]

From a micro view no. But we do not know exactly what came about those experiments. To those that died or were harmed it did not but if they helped someone in some way then yes.



I would say that five and six were worth it though. What was their facination with thresher maws I wonder?

[Kaiser Shepard]

If my theory of ExoGeni being either a front for or sponsor of Cerberus holds true, you can add another handful of 'incidents' to that list.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

What was their facination with thresher maws I wonder?

I'd say either developing the acid into a bioweapon or using it for some sort of genetic engineering.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 15 mai 2010 - 01:56 .

[Sand King]

I'm going to be on my own but yes there actions are justified. From there experiments they gained valuable information. The end justifies the means.

[DOYOURLABS]

Don't forget they killed rear admiral kahoku. I think in an "ends justify the means" perspective it is justified.

[Sand King]

Kahoku was an idiot, his death was his own fault.

[legbamel]

Their motives is the dominance of humanity over all other species. To that end they experiment ON humans to find different and more creative ways to control minds and kill...other people. Clearly, TIM and his pals are idiots of the first order.

[Kudara]

I'm sorry to be so harsh, but if you think experimenting upon and torturing children is in any way shape or form justified.... Something is gravely wrong with you.

[Pacifien]

I think all of Cerberus's actions have one simple motive: human dominance in the known galaxy (and beyond). This means taking actions that preserve the human race as well as vastly enhance human abilities. They'll get there by any means possible as quickly as possible.

Mass Effect 2 puts Shepard on the preservation side of Cerberus's dealings, which is an admirable goal. I wouldn't mind humanity surviving.

What Cerberus has done on the human enhancement side of things isn't justified in my opinion. It's sloppy science for immediate gain. It's casting aside the rules of morality. It's going up to 11 when readjusting the limits of 10 would have done just as well.

Modifié par Pacifien, 15 mai 2010 - 02:09 .

[Spartas Husky]

Their methods yield results. Are they justified HELL NO. are they effective...unfortunately yes.

[Vaenier]

The ends justify the means. too bad Cerberus is unable to preform the simplest of tasks. they have no ends to justify their horrible acts.

[pawcaw123]

They are for Renegade Shepard, but in my opinion no.

[Zaxares]

No, their motives do not justify their actions, but being a pragmatic man, I can appreciate why the Illusive Man is doing the things he does. The sad truth is that a lot of advances in scientific knowledge were purchased with the deaths and suffering of many, including innocents. When the first human vivisection was performed, it would been a horrifying, repugnant act that I condemn utterly. Yet from that act, we would have learned a great deal about anatomy and how the body truly functions, and that knowledge can be used to save others in the future.



I would never condone such acts, yet I can see the benefits in using the results of such twisted research.



That said, I'm STILL blowing up the Collector Base and telling TIM that we're doing things MY way now.

[Goodwood]

Goodwood thinks that anyone who preaches the mantra of "the ends justify the means" should not complain when they end up on the wrong side of someone else's ends. After all, was that other person not justified, at least in their mind?

The word "blowback" comes to Goodwood's mind...

Modifié par Goodwood, 15 mai 2010 - 02:50 .

[Pacifien]

Zaxares wrote...
No, their motives do not justify their actions, but being a pragmatic man, I can appreciate why the Illusive Man is doing the things he does. The sad truth is that a lot of advances in scientific knowledge were purchased with the deaths and suffering of many, including innocents. When the first human vivisection was performed, it would been a horrifying, repugnant act that I condemn utterly. Yet from that act, we would have learned a great deal about anatomy and how the body truly functions, and that knowledge can be used to save others in the future.

Great, spending my time reading about Unit 731 after thinking about vivisection. Now there's an organization to make Cerberus proud.

[crimzontearz]

uhm..no.....



but I still totally believe Cerberus was part of the alliance all along so.....

[prizm123]

crimzontearz wrote...

uhm..no.....

but I still totally believe Cerberus was part of the alliance all along so.....

well, they started as the Black Ops Division of the Alliance Military, and that they are considered "rogue" to me just sort of seems like it is a case of plausible deniability so that if and when anything does come up, it can be blamed on Cerberus itself since it is a "rogue" entity and not considered official

think about it, just where do you think TIM comes up with all of his resources, including military grade equipment? do you honestly think that the Normandy 2 was done entirely in secret? a ship like that would have taken a bit longer than 2 years to build due to the specs being so much different than the original, not to mention supply chains, and having to keep it a secret...we wont even mention how no one really seems surprised that it even exists
then there are the matters of all of the Cerberus operations all over the place, places like Pragia, which had to have existed for years

i think Cerberus is still a part of the Alliance, but no one really realizes it other than TIM and maybe Anderson and some higher ups in the Alliance

[Beholderess]

No they aren't.

And those who think than experimenting on children can ever be justified are more than welcome to offer their own child for recearch.

[Spartas Husky]

Beholderess wrote...

No they aren't.
And those who think than experimenting on children can ever be justified are more than welcome to offer their own child for recearch.

ANd yet, humans being short sighted in a couple hundred years wont even rememeber what "atrocious" things were done in order to cure "aids or cancer" they will be oblivious and happy to just having a cure available.

Sad truth.

[noobzor99]

The more I look at it, the more I realize a true paragon has to go solo in ME3- Cerberus was part of the alliance when the sole survivor attack happened...

[Dean_the_Young]

Sand King wrote...

Kahoku was an idiot, his death was his own fault.

Admiral Kohaku was an officer who did what we rightly expect from officers in the military: loyalty to their men, and putting them before the officer's own interests. If he went against the Alliance (and searching for who did it was not setting out with the intent to betray, and finding Cerberus being rogue means is not betraying them), at worst he a whistle blower. At worst. More flattering views would be that he ended a threat to the Alliance of a rogue black ops group experiment.

[Dean_the_Young]

Beholderess wrote...

No they aren't.
And those who think than experimenting on children can ever be justified are more than welcome to offer their own child for recearch.

I support genetic engineering and advanced medicinal treatments, even though without decades (generations, really) of controlled evaluation would have to be done to ensure it's safe. That acceptence of risk comes from accepting a part of experimentation. Child psychology tests are also not innately inhumane experiments either, and can bring valuable knowledge.

Nearly all parents effectively experiment on their children due to the very fact that the first child is new and they don't know everything about child raising, something you can't just learn from a book. Any parent with multiple children is going to treat the later ones differently.

There are justified and reasonable experiments and there are inhumane experiments. Simply being an experiment is not a disqualification.

Torturing children, however, serves no good purpose. But Jack's cell was rogue to Cerberus even as Cerberus was still part of the Alliance.