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[Zulu_DFA]

Shandepared wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The Volus are tied to the Turians because the Turians advance their interests: if Humans do a better job, then the appeal of the Turians fades.

I don't know what the trigger is, but it is possible in ME2 to hear a news report about volus separatists launching protests after the Alliance 5th Fleet takes its victory tour near Patavig. Naturally the turians fuss about it. It seems the winds are changing...

I noticed that too. Does it depend on who is the Human Councillor, I wonder (like the end of the Batarian space mirror array story)?



On the thread's subjuct: "the ends jusify the means" approach has two complementary issues to resolve: 1st, "the ends" must be desirable enough, and 2ndly, "the means" must also be appropriate, that is not put "the ends" in jeopardy.

When Cerberus conduct is questioned, both issues are generally brought up. Some people think that ther goal are unethical themselves, and some think that although decent those goals are unattainable through Cerberus practices. But for the disussion to make any sense these two issues must not be mixed up.

As it is, people who think that Cerberus is generally bad, and Human Alliance must submit themselves to the will of the Council come and start throwing emotional arguments ranging from "Look, TIM claims he only wants to protect humanity, but the only thing he does is killing humans everywere!" to "It's all Martin Sheen's fault, that Cerberus has any supoorters at all!" So the people who aren't that fixed on the "happily ever after" type of interstellar politics can't have a serious discussion about the subject in question.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 16 mai 2010 - 06:07 .

[lovgreno]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Groups too stupid to differentiate between a speciest extremist group and a species are too stupid to desire as equals... especially when they have their own extremist groups within them.

Because the advantages of the Collector Base technology surpass those of the Council alone, both too humanity (ascendancy) and to the galaxy as a whole (better chance for everyone to survive with fewer casualties). They aren't even mutually exclusive choices, unless the Council so short sighted that it won't work with the Alliance for survival. In which case the Council is also too stupid to make a good partner.

The Eclipse sisters are Asari who can not be distinguished from other Asari out of uniform. Therefore, all species think the Eclipse are the same as the Asari.

Oh, wait, they don't. Nor do people think the Blood Pack is all Krogan plus some Vorcha. It's incredibly racist to think they would be too stupid to make a differentiation that humans have for hundreds of years.

The Volus are tied to the Turians because the Turians advance their interests: if Humans do a better job, then the appeal of the Turians fades.
The quarians are powerful: they have the largest fleet in the galaxy, greater than the Turians by far.
The Krogan are powerful: even without the genophage, unified they will be one of the greatest land powers in the galaxy.
The Rachni are powerful: one queen can make a colony in days, and they have had years to rebuild fleets.

The Asari believe in soft power, but the historically proven aspect of soft power is that it fails without hard power. The Asari hard power is the Destiny Ascension, without which they retreat from galactic security. Their economic strength only matters as much as others allow it to, as economic power has through history.

The Salarians do not have soft power. They have intelligence power. They lack hard power, which is why they ally with the Turians to compensate. With the Turians at a disadvantage, they have little reason to throw their fates in with the Turians in a fight that they will likely lose. A Phyric loss again.

Cerberus can help you win the Reaper War with lower losses for everyone if they play along, and without losing humanity if they are too stupid to value survival over working with Cerberus. And if they're that foolish, they have no claim to being wise enough for galactic governance.

If Ceberus managed to use the Collector Base to their advantage they would dominate the human race. I don't think the aliens want to risk that. Why would the aliens trust a race that allows a terrorist organisation to grow so strong? Sure there are dangerous minorities among all races but only Cerberus have been allowed to grow into a real power.
That is assuming they can use the very alien tecnology in the collector base at all. That project could blow up in their face again. Cerberus are willing to risk everything on wishfull thinking. Who can say that Harbinger didn't do the smart thing and wiped any data usefull for defeating reapers when releasing controll of the collectors?
If the humans do a better job yes but why take a risk with the strange newcomers when they have a long experience of of doing the trade for the much larger and more stable turian economy?
The quarian fleet are not warships, they are overpopulated old and second rate wrecks, barely able to keep the quarians alive. As Kalreegar said they would not survive a confrontation with the geth.
Krogans don't even have ships. They are stuck on the nuked Tuchanka or comitting slow suicide as mercenaries. Even Wrex have trouble uniting even a few clans.
The rachni may have a fleet but we have only heard of a few scout ships thus far.
The asari does back up their soft power with a fleet and military. Those 20  dreadnoughts and asari commandos  could be handy against the reapers, just in case the deus ex machina sollution Collector Base doesn't work. The asari are obviously very good at making most allow and even welcome the stability their economical and political power creates.
Turians, salarians and asari are each military, economical and political superpowers with centuries of cooperation to compliments eachothers strenghts, turning down that for untested Collector tecnology would be a waste.

[megatron999]

Really its not just winning that matters, you have to consider long-term consequences as well e.g.:



Natives Inidans may gain aide from abrouad. I'm sure many states may decide to support them if there was a major economic recession in the US.



Expansion may lead to economic hardship, difficulty in occupying the land. In the case of the Native Indians. They lost mainly due to disunity and no strong figure to fight for them and yes they had guns in spite of what the history books say.