32 réponses à ce sujet

[ODST Steve]

Shockwave is the only move affected by Jack's unique research for 20% more Biotic Damage. Yet I'll still fail to see how it is better than Pull. Could someone please tell me how to use Jack well?

[Pacifien]

Think the major factor in Jack's usefulness is difficulty setting. Since shockwave won't work well unless all the defenses are stripped, you have to wait to even use it during the Hardcore/Insanity settings. But other than that, it does well at stumbling a line of enemies, blowing them off platforms, or annihilating husks. Not bad for Veteran difficulty or lower.

On Hardcore/Insanity, then Jack's major use will be Pull and her Warp Ammo. Pretty limiting given your other shotgun wielding squadmates.

[tommyt_1994]

I actually find Jack's shockwave very useful. Shockwave can stagger enemies, even if they have a form of protection up(armor, shields, barrier). This is particularly useful when enemies are being stubborn and wont pop their heads up. On my infiltrator insanity run, I'll use Jack's shockwave, which will knock enemies out of cover, and then I'll snipe them while they're exposed.

[NICKjnp]

It's useful when you take our a group of enemies shields but are still hiding behind cover. It gets them out of cover. It is also useful if you hit a group of husks with area reave (even on Insanity) then use her shockwave to finish them off. She isn't as useless as you think... you just have to know how to use her (just like every other character).

[OniGanon]

I sometimes use it to stagger enemies to make them stay still for a second when I'm trying to shotgun them in the face.

Modifié par OniGanon, 15 mai 2010 - 03:37 .

[Thompson family]

I use Jack and Shockwave a lot, though not entirely because I like the power.



For story purposes, Jack clearly doesn't want to be in the squad led by Miranda during the final fight on the Collector station. I always have MIranda lead the other squad. Therefore,Jack''s always with me during the whole fight on the collector station. She's not a good defender anyway, which is what MIranda needs. And yes, this is in Insanity level. I bring Jack along on a lot of other missions too.



I give everybody squad warp ammo, since my Shepard's a soldier. This takes down shields and barriers rather well. This is also one reason I've a Revenant man and not a Widow carrier. I also use another teammate with warp or overload to help strip away shields or barriers.Then I hit the stripped target with Jack's shockwave. As others have described, it causes some unsteadiness, at least, even on enemies that still have protection. Even if it doesn't kill them instantly, there's an excellent chance Jack will knock her victims right off the platform in the Collector vessels, for instance.



The key to using shockwave well is target selection. Find either a tightly formed group that's behind cover and/or find a choke point where they have to go through a limited space. Peel away one enemy's protection and then hit them.Husks in particular make good subjects for shockwave. For instance, in the "Long Walk" I use Samara to keep up the "bubble" and Jack to mess with the husks.



Shockwave's useful even if it doesn't kill the target. The victim's got to get up and usually get back to cover before he can start firing again.

[SuperMedbh]

I like it for husks, too. Strip the armour (I love inferno blast ammo, myself), then hit them. If they still had armour, it will still stop them for a bit, which will bunch them up. Strip, Shock, and as Mordin says "Enjoy".



Jack is really under rated. With the right squaddies, she can be quite powerful (I like her with Thane and his warp)

[ODST Steve]

But all I see in Jack s a less bulky Jacob. Is her shockwave that good?

[drunken pyromaniac]

I don't upgrade her shockwave completely but it's perfectly useful at a lower level as well. The main thing it's useful for is disruption as welll as it's destructive capabilities. She's fantastic in concert with a biotic Shep or squadmate.

[SuperMedbh]

Shockwave is definitely useful at even just one point. My Vanguard has just that one point, and it saves her tush when getting overrun by husks or varren. Even armoured, it gives them pause long enough for me to get off a shot or run.



Jack gets a 20% bonus on it, and with the wide path can be very devastating if you use inferno blast or area overload first to knock down the defense. On Veteran and below, it's just silly overpowered. Shepard can grab a book and curl up in a corner whilst Jack destroys everyone on those levels (I know, most on this forum play Hardcore or Insanity, but for those who don't, biotics are the proverbial schizz nizz)

[FFTARoxorz05]

Pull kills 1 husks, Shockwave kills however many are there and actually get hit. Of course that's assuming she lives, since Jack is only slightly better than Jacob and Miranda about not dying, and those two are awful at it.

[Atmosfear3]

Am I the only one that thinks simply staggering a target is completely and utterly useless?



I guess I don't allow any enemies to get close enough where I need a stagger to save my life /shrug



(I think Jack is really terrible for any non-biotic Sheps)

[implodinggoat]

ODST Steve wrote...

But all I see in Jack s a less bulky Jacob. Is her shockwave that good?

Not really, on Hardcore and Insanity she's probably the weakest squadmate on your team.  Shockwave is modestly useful since it can stagger enemies with any type of protection; but so can Concussive Blast, Singularity, Throw, and most notably Kasumi's awesome Flashbang Grenade which puts Shockwave to shame.

If you need a squadmate with Pull Samara (or Morinth) is definitely the way to go since Area Reave or Dominate are both far more powerful and useful than Shockwave and they both have Throw as well which can also stagger enemies although not as many as Shockwave.

I'd also say Jacob is probably a better choice than Jack as well since his barrier makes him tough enough that you can use him as a close range tank, although Grunt is definitely a superior tank albeit one without pull.

The only real advantages Jack has is that she has the fastest cooldown of any of your Biotics which is useful for Pull and she has Warp Ammo which can be a very useful squad ammo power if your Shepard doesn't have an effective Ammo power.

Its irritating that when the game introduces her it makes her seem ridiculously powerful after she plows through 2 YMIR mechs in seconds without breaking a sweat; but then when you actually bring her into combat she turns out to be the weakest squadmember with the biggest mouth.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 15 mai 2010 - 10:18 .

[ODST Steve]

So if I use her should I just go with pull.

[Doriath]

Atmosfear3 wrote...
Am I the only one that thinks simply staggering a target is completely and utterly useless?

I was thinking the same thing...

Biotics on hardcore/insanity can be tricky to use. Because everything has atleast one level of protection, powers like shockwave become a lot more conditional in their use than they are on veteran or lower. Warp is probably the one squadmate biotic power that retains tactical versatility at any difficulty. Shockwave is what it is, great for vet or lower, situational at best on hardcore/insanity.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 15 mai 2010 - 10:51 .

[Atmosfear3]

implodinggoat wrote...

ODST Steve wrote...

But all I see in Jack s a less bulky Jacob. Is her shockwave that good?

Not really, on Hardcore and Insanity she's probably the weakest squadmate on your team.  Shockwave is modestly useful since it can stagger enemies with any type of protection; but so can Concussive Blast, Singularity, Throw, and most notably Kasumi's awesome Flashbang Grenade which puts Shockwave to shame.

If you need a squadmate with Pull Samara (or Morinth) is definitely the way to go since Area Reave or Dominate are both far more powerful and useful than Shockwave and they both have Throw as well which can also stagger enemies although not as many as Shockwave.

I'd also say Jacob is probably a better choice than Jack as well since his barrier makes him tough enough that you can use him as a close range tank, although Grunt is definitely a superior tank albeit one without pull.

The only real advantages Jack has is that she has the fastest cooldown of any of your Biotics which is useful for Pull and she has Warp Ammo which can be a very useful squad ammo power if your Shepard doesn't have an effective Ammo power.

Its irritating that when the game introduces her it makes her seem ridiculously powerful after she plows through 2 YMIR mechs in seconds without breaking a sweat; but then when you actually bring her into combat she turns out to be the weakest squadmember with the biggest mouth.

Another reason why Jack is terrible is this:

In order to make Jack modestly useful on hardcore/insanity, you must take Squad Warp ammo on her. Shockwave is situational at best (mostly useless to me) and pull is awesome. To optimize Jack's talents, you have to take Squad Warp ammo which leaves you with two choices:

a) Take shockwave to 4
Take shockwave to 2 and pull to 3 (@ lvl 30)

Call me a min-maxer but it annoys me when I can't take pull to 4 since thats what really makes it shine. I suppose with Jack's passive its not a big deal since cools down faster, but its annoying nonetheless.

[SuperMedbh]

I don't know, I still find Shockwave useful for crowd control on insanity. It can bunch baddies up, then you can hit them with area effect stuffs. And it's got a terrifically short cooldown.



I took her and Thane through the IFF mission (soldier Shep) without raising a sweat. She had maxed pull field and shockwave. Warp explosions and shockwaves everywhere, Shep stripping armour down with inferno ammo. Yes, I ignored Warp Ammo. Yes, it's great, but shooting isn't her strong point (at all). If you've already got ammo almost as good, why spend the points? Or if you really want it, take it as a bonus power.



I'm not going to argue that Jack is the most powerful character. As someone said earlier, as far as the biotics go, Samara is probably the most well rounded between Reave, Throw and Assault rifle. But Jack's fun to use on some missions. I guess you either think her mouthiness is funny, or you don't

[ODST Steve]

I never thought Pull and Shackwave together would be good idea. Now I just realized that good be really good with Miranda or Thane.

[Lucazius]

I hate to say this, but on Insanity, Jack and Jacob are the most useless party members.



No defense-strip power + shotgun = useless.



However, this don't stop you from beating the game... Like someone said before, on my first run through insanity, I got Jack with me all the time during the suicide mission for RP purposes (had to keep her on my squad while Miranda lead the other team to avoid trouble).

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

Jack isn't useless, but she's damn near it. As much as I adore her as a character, I don't use her often in combat. She works well in tandem with an Infiltrator, however, as an anti-Husk measure. Incineration Blast to Shockwave makes me a happy camper. Also, bringing her along with a squad mate that works perfectly fine solo, such as Grunt or Zaeed(this is especially true of Grunt), allows her to be a Warp Ammo battery, which I guess is good enough.

Modifié par Miss Yuna of Atlanta, 16 mai 2010 - 12:13 .

[Thompson family]

Note on Inferno grenade: IG+Abomination as target = many dead husks in one shot, if they're packed tight enough.

As for whether it's useful or not to stagger opponents -- It is if you hit adrenaline rush and shoot a couple of them in the head before they regain their balance.

As I said, it's not my favorite power, but combine it with an armor-stripping power like warp or inferno grenade and it's not that bad.

Modifié par Thompson family, 17 mai 2010 - 05:51 .

[Darc_Requiem]

The limited powers really hurts some of the squad mates in ME2. I know it's wishful thinking but I hope squad mates get more powers in ME3 and armor as well. Going to hostile environments with Shepard decked out in full armor and everyone* else in street clothes and breathing masks is beyond stupid.



*Grunt, Garrus, and Tali actually wear full armor.

[HTTP 404]

shockwave isnt too bad IMO. Just wish it the wave part of the shockwave moved faster or the shock part of the shockwave was more "shocking"

[HTTP 404]

Lucazius wrote...

I hate to say this, but on Insanity, Jack and Jacob are the most useless party members.

No defense-strip power + shotgun = useless.

However, this don't stop you from beating the game... Like someone said before, on my first run through insanity, I got Jack with me all the time during the suicide mission for RP purposes (had to keep her on my squad while Miranda lead the other team to avoid trouble).

slightly disagree I wouldnt say useless but they are less than useful.  I like to use their lift plus my unstable warp to make a warp explosion.  but any squadmate with shotgun is not so useful as compared to squadmates that dont.

[BudaKhan]

only a nub sez shockwave is useless... ok it doesn't drop shields or armor, but it will knock a guy up out of cover if shielded and really knock him out of cover if unshielded. Perfect time to pop adrenaline rush and finish the target.