220 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamShatner]

Don't see why there needs to be darkspawn for our warden to be the central character. The warden seemed to be pretty nifty no matter who they were fighting.

[Indoctrination]

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not the reason Brockololly want's to play as the Warden. He probably doesn't even give a sh!t about darkspawn. Read his post again.

That's not what I was saying. Read my post again. I'm saying that there's nothing left for the Warden to do plot wise unless BioWare introduces some really silly plot device to bring back the darkspawn. Whether or not you care about the darkspawn is irrelevent. The Grey Wardens have one mission: fight the darkspawn. If you have a story about Grey Wardens you need to have the darkspawn involved as well. Having a story about the Grey Warden without the darkspawn would be like having a Star Wars movie that stars a Jedi but with no dark side or Sith Lords.

[Liquidcz]

Indoctrination wrote...
That's not what I was saying. Read my post again. I'm saying that there's nothing left for the Warden to do plot wise unless BioWare introduces some really silly plot device to bring back the darkspawn. Whether or not you care about the darkspawn is irrelevent. The Grey Wardens have one mission: fight the darkspawn. If you have a story about Grey Wardens you need to have the darkspawn involved as well. Having a story about the Grey Warden without the darkspawn would be like having a Star Wars movie that stars a Jedi but with no dark side or Sith Lords.

Edit: Spoilers ahead. But if you read a thread about DA sequel, you should expect references and details from previous games.

Apparently you can quit Grey Wardens. You still have the taint and you're still going to die in 20-30 years, but you no longer "care only about the darkspawn". Most of the surviving companions from Awakening do it. Alistair does it. Your character does it between Origins and Awakening, unless you choose to rebuild Grey Wardens. So this point is pretty moot.

Modifié par Liquidcz, 15 mai 2010 - 11:53 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Uh, yes there is, actually. The Fade was a central theme in the Warden's story. Not having Darkspawn wouldn't be that big of a deal, I don't think. It would be fresh, and there are probably still ragtag groups out there. There always is, as I understand.



It's different from Star Wars. Jedi and Sith represented a very straight good and evil, where as there were many evils in Dragon Age, not just Darkspawn. In Dragon Age, it's not just two sides of the same chess board, you know?

[VampireCommando]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

 Is anyone else more wishing for a last expansion? With a certain someone? With all your companions one last time?

I am realistic, and I know that there is a large chance you wouldn't get to play your Warden in it, because it's a BioWare sequel, and they have stated that Origins is not a saga, and when it ends, it ends. 

I do realise that expansions usually (for BioWare in recent months) don't take a year to be announced and don't get their own very exciting viral ad campaign, but I am hoping, because Awakening left me feeling empty, and I want to see my companions again and by God, I really want to play as my own Warden one last time, because so much is left unsaid, and untouched so far, and I would prefer to play my Warden through it, not someone new.

I think that you have hit the nail dead on the head there with that and effectivly summed up how 90% of DA fans feel, i mean i really want to find out what hapens between my warden and Morrigan, i think BW know they have the ability and potental to make DA 2 a continuation of the first one, an import feature knda like ME and i also think that they know we as a whole on this site represent a small fraction of the DA fanbase and surely then must know that we want a continuation of the series and not to ditch it with so many unanswered questions, so i for one hope to god that we can import our wardens.

Btw how did you get your picture to be a custom one like yours?

[Kail Ashton]

Hmmm would like either one more expansion or some fallout3 esc sized DLC(without the bugs!) while i don't mind the cheapy fribilous DLC so far, would like sumth'n with more meat, awakening had the right idea just way too rushed, which i see a 2nd expansion being as well



The new charecters from awakening were hardly scratched & everyone wants the old cast back, idealy one last DLC that combines everyone (within reason) for a grand finale than i'd feel better bout starting fresh in DA2

[Terra_Ex]

Indoctrination wrote...

blademaster7 wrote...

That's not the reason Brockololly want's to play as the Warden. He probably doesn't even give a sh!t about darkspawn. Read his post again.

That's not what I was saying. Read my post again. I'm saying that there's nothing left for the Warden to do plot wise unless BioWare introduces some really silly plot device to bring back the darkspawn. Whether or not you care about the darkspawn is irrelevent. The Grey Wardens have one mission: fight the darkspawn. If you have a story about Grey Wardens you need to have the darkspawn involved as well. Having a story about the Grey Warden without the darkspawn would be like having a Star Wars movie that stars a Jedi but with no dark side or Sith Lords.

I'm thinking Gaider's myopic line would fit nicely here. The PC is only tied into being a Grey Warden insofar as its the main focus of DA:O & Awakening. There is nothing to stop the story from expanding into other non-darkspawn areas whilst retaining the warden as the central character. Sheperd was a Spectre in ME1 and a cerberus operative in ME2, hence his/her role within the game world has evolved to fit the plot. In ME2, lines were blurred as you form unsteady alliances with old
enemies, would ME2 have been the game it is if we'd hadn't reprised our
role as Sheperd- I doubt it. No one is suggesting the Warden's story continue on indefinitely, but imo a story which spans multiple titles with a single PC (such as BG) retains player investment and ultimately provides a stronger storyline than a series of loosely connected short stories.

As for the original post - no, I do not want to see more expansions like Awakening - clearly an adequate amount of time, funding and resources cannot be allocated to create a polished product within EA's alloted timeframe. I'd much rather they  focused their efforts on a true sequel. Of course, that's not gonna fit in with EA's plans...

[Elanareon]

Well, i think that all the original companions of origins will be a major player in Thedas. Morrigan and demon baby, Leliana singing to Maker and disappearing, Oghren link between humans and dwarves, Sten and qunari invasion, Wynne being a good version of Flemmeth Warden as the most important hero of all ages

[Master Shiori]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
Save the overpowered-ness, the epilogue does have an open ending, which leads me to believe that there is a chance we will get more from Origins and I am almost certain it has a lot to do with someone in particular. 

But without an epilogue save there'll be no importing, at least not from Awakening. And I seem to remember NWN being open ended with ambiguous epilogue text to leave room for expansions which ended up being stand alone games as opposed to continuations of the story.

The only thing I can see them doing with another expansion is something similar to what Obsidina did with NWN2 and Mask of the Betrayer (continuation-wise) which wouldn't make much sense after introducing the import feature

The lack of epilogue save in Awakening doesn't mean anything. What exactly did we do there anyway that deserves to be imported into future titles? The only thing that comes to mind is sparing or killing the Architect and that only matters if Bioware plans to focus on Darkspawn again, which I highly doubt.

As for the Warden, there is no reason why he couldn't embark on other adventures that don't involve slaying Archdemons or stopping Blights. I'd imagine with his/her duty done he/she can do whatever he/she wants.

Bioware has plenty of options when it comes to using the Warden again. Importing is ceirtainly one of them but so is a "hero of Ferelden" origin.
In the end they can always come up with a story that gives us the choice of continuing with our Warden or creating a new character, like they did in Awakening.

They ceirtainly have a lot of options and could easily decide to go either way.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 15 mai 2010 - 12:13 .

[SDNcN]

Terra_Ex wrote...

There is nothing to stop the story from expanding into other non-darkspawn areas whilst retaining the warden as
the central character. Sheperd was a Spectre in ME1 and a cerberus operative in ME2, hence his/her role within the game world has evolved to fit the plot. In ME2, lines were blurred as you form unsteady alliances with old enemies, would ME2 have been the game it is if we'd hadn't reprised our role as Sheperd- I doubt it. No one is suggesting the Warden's story continue on indefinitely, but imo a story which spans multiple titles with a single PC (such as BG) retains player investment and ultimately provides a stronger storyline than a series of loosely connected short stories.

The difference is that Mass Effect features a metaplot involving the Reapers. That connected the first and second game in the same way that the Bhaalspawn conflict connected the Baldur's Gate series. At the end of DA:O/A all of your antagonists are possibly dead or no longer a threat and there is little indication of another Big Bad coming  to threaten Thedas. Or atleast one that can't be confronted by a new protagonist with a fresh perspective and a stronger connection to it.

Before someone says, "But Morrrigan's Dark promise route?!" Having that become the central story of a sequel would require a canon ending. If that becomes the case, then carrying over the Warden becomes rather pointless -- atleast for all the characters that chose something different.

Modifié par SDNcN, 15 mai 2010 - 12:28 .

[Master Shiori]

SDNcN wrote...

Terra_Ex wrote...

There is nothing to stop the story from expanding into other non-darkspawn areas whilst retaining the warden as
the central character. Sheperd was a Spectre in ME1 and a cerberus operative in ME2, hence his/her role within the game world has evolved to fit the plot. In ME2, lines were blurred as you form unsteady alliances with old enemies, would ME2 have been the game it is if we'd hadn't reprised our role as Sheperd- I doubt it. No one is suggesting the Warden's story continue on indefinitely, but imo a story which spans multiple titles with a single PC (such as BG) retains player investment and ultimately provides a stronger storyline than a series of loosely connected short stories.

The difference is that Mass Effect features a metaplot involving the Reapers. That connected the first and second game in the same way that the Bhaalspawn conflict connected the Baldur's Gate series. At the end of DA:O/A all of your antagonists are possibly dead or no longer a threat and there is little indication of another Big Bad coming  to threaten Thedas. Or atleast one that can't be confronted by a new protagonist with a fresh perspective and a stronger connection to it.

Before someone says, "But Morrrigan's Dark promise route?!" Having that become the central story of a sequel would require a canon ending. If that becomes the case, then carrying over the Warden becomes rather pointless -- atleast for all the characters that chose something different.

While it's true that your antagonists have been dealt with by the end of Awakening, it still doesnt prevent Bioware from giving you new ones.
Call me short sighted, but right now I fail to imagine a threat that you couldn't face with your old Warden and had to resort to making a new character.
Starting a new character ceirtainly has it's appeal, but so does a sense of continuity.

If every DA title is going to be a short story that doesn't connect to previous titles in any way, then I can forsee a problem down the line. What happens when people indentify with and love their old companions so much that new ones don't feel like an adequate replacement? If every new game sees you start from scratch with your previous actions and choices no longer being important then why should players bother to care about their choices, character and companions when they won't last past the ending credits?

Importing or continuing with your old Warden has it's own set of problems, one of which is making sure everybody's choices matter and are reflected in future games.

Picking a canon storyline is also an option.

Each of these options have their advantages and drawbacks, choosing one over the others leaves you with dissatisfied customers.
Trying to find a way to reach some sort of compromise may work out best in the long run even if it doesn't seem like an easy thing to do.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 15 mai 2010 - 12:55 .

[hexaligned]

The way I see it is this. If you liked the old companions the writers made, chances are high you will like the new ones they make too. If the entire basis for your argument is an (in my eyes) unhealthy emotional attatchment to fictional characters, I don't think Bioware is obligated to keep on fueling that, and I don't think the rest of the customer base should have to suffer through contrived, grasping at straws plots because of it.

[SDNcN]

Master Shiori wrote...

Call me short sighted, but right now I fail to imagine a threat that you couldn't face with your old Warden and had to make a new character.

What Antagonist is left that would be better faced with the Warden rather than a new character?

Example:

Lets say in DA:2 a group of Libertarian Mages have broken away from the Circle and have figured out a way to enthrall Dragons. They have enslaved a huge brood and have sent them rampaging throughout parts of Orlais and Nevarra. Would it be better to continue the Warden in that story or have a new character that becomes a Nevarran Dragonhunter and goes after them?

Modifié par SDNcN, 15 mai 2010 - 01:06 .

[Master Shiori]

SDNcN wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Call me short sighted, but right now I fail to imagine a threat that you couldn't face with your old Warden and had to make a new character.

What Antagonist is left that would be better faced with the Warden rather than a new character?

Example:

Lets say in DA:2 a group of Libertarian Mages have broken away from the Circle and have figured out a way to enthrall Dragons. They have enslaved a huge brood and have sent them rampaging throughout parts of Orlais and Nevarra. Would it be better to continue the Warden in that story or have a new character that becomes a Nevarran Dragonhunter and goes after them?

Both options are perfectly viable.

We can spend the whole day coming up with reasons why one may be better then the other, but the truth of the matter is that both are perfectly fine. It all comes down to each players preference.
There is no rule that says we cannot have both.

[WilliamShatner]

relhart wrote...

The way I see it is this. If you liked the old companions the writers made, chances are high you will like the new ones they make too. If the entire basis for your argument is an (in my eyes) unhealthy emotional attatchment to fictional characters, I don't think Bioware is obligated to keep on fueling that, and I don't think the rest of the customer base should have to suffer through contrived, grasping at straws plots because of it.

For me characters are what make series.  A Lethal Weapon film would not be a Lethal Weapon film without Riggs & Murtaugh.  Those characters are why I watch those films.  And characters like Morrigan and Leliana are the reason why I play Dragon Age.  They are the difference between it and the other thousands games/books/films based in similar generic fantasy settings.

If they're going to make a game without any of the characters of the original why even make it a Dragon Age game?  Why not make a different game/series? 

[hexaligned]

Because it's a game, and not a book or a movie. Seeing as how it's interactive, there is much more to it than just passively watching a story unfold. The gameplay, combat mechanics, and general themes have a personality and character of their own, Those are the things that make a video game series, a series.

Edit: I'm all for Gaider writting some books that continue some of the companions stories (if he legally can)  I'm sure they would sell well enough to turn a profit.  I'm just personally done with them.  Their stories are over as far as I'm concerned, I think it would be a real shame to miss out on new characters and story possibilities just because some people can't let go.

Modifié par relhart, 15 mai 2010 - 01:23 .

[Master Shiori]

relhart wrote...

The way I see it is this. If you liked the old companions the writers made, chances are high you will like the new ones they make too. If the entire basis for your argument is an (in my eyes) unhealthy emotional attatchment to fictional characters, I don't think Bioware is obligated to keep on fueling that, and I don't think the rest of the customer base should have to suffer through contrived, grasping at straws plots because of it.

What makes this kind of emotional attachement unhealthy?
The fact that people may want to see ceirtain characters return should be more of a compliment to the writers then a problem.

Would, for example, bringing back Leliana or Morrigan really be worse then making a new companion? Would tying up lose ends from Origins really hurt a new story?

A skilled writer could make it so that these things enrich a new game rather then hinder it.

All I'm saying is that right now we can go either way. Would giving fans a bit of both really be such a bad thing?

[Lucy Glitter]

Well, in regards to what Shatner says, I do agree that most popular sagas have a set main cast, and it usually doesn't change.

However, Knights of the old republic 2 did change the protagonist, and were still able (kind of) to keep old protagonist in.

I really don't want to go that route, though. I really, really don't.

edit: I can't say that I felt any attachment to any of the Awakening characters. I actually hated two of them. Not because I disliked their personality, but because they came off as shallow and 2d.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 15 mai 2010 - 01:28 .

[WilliamShatner]

relhart wrote...

Because it's a game, and not a book or a movie. Seeing as how it's interactive, there is much more to it than just passively watching a story unfold. The gameplay, combat mechanics, and general themes have a personality and character of their own, Those are the things that make a video game series, a series.

Edit: I'm all for Gaider writting some books that continue some of the companions stories (if he legally can)  I'm sure they would sell well enough to turn a profit.  I'm just personally done with them.  Their stories are over as far as I'm concerned, I think it would be a real shame to miss out on new characters and story possibilities just because some people can't let go.

Then Mario Kart and Super Mario RPG would not be part of the Mario series wheras every Tom, Dick and Harry platformer on the NES that used A + B to run and jump would be.

[SDNcN]

Master Shiori wrote...

Both options are perfectly viable.

We can spend the whole day coming up with reasons why one may be better then the other, but the truth of the matter is that both are perfectly fine. It all comes down to each players preference.
There is no rule that says we cannot have both.

Within the context of that example having the new Dragonhunter over the Warden would lead to a much stronger narrative. The other option would be the same as cutting Origin stories from DA:O and having having the Orlesian Commander from Awakening be  the main character of Origins. That would have worked just fine, but it would have remove the attachment players formed to the areas and characters from the Origin stories in favor of someone who has very little to do with the events and people in Ferelden.


If an import feature is implemented alongside new origins in DA:2 then chances are there will be little connection to the DA:O storyline. Look how things worked out in Awakening in terms of connectivity to the OC.

If they're going to make a game without any of the characters of the
original why even make it a Dragon Age
game?  Why not make a different game/series? 

Because Dragon Age is a setting not a collection of characters.

I DMed a game of Exalted with a group of friends of mine, they all played Solars. A couple of months later we started a new campaign and they all played new Lunar characters in another part of the in-game world. Should I have started calling Exalted something else because my players were no longer using the same characters or even playing in the same location as the last campaign?

Modifié par SDNcN, 15 mai 2010 - 01:37 .

[Lucy Glitter]

SDNcN wrote...
If an import feature is implemented alongside new origins in DA:2 then chances are there will be little connection to the DA:O storyline. Look how things worked out in Awakening in terms of connectivity to the OC.

That's because it was rushed to hell. I mean, they basically got away with disregarding the ultimate sacrifice, and even if it made everyone on here go, "WTF BIOWARE", nothing happened. Well, what could happen? Still, they actually did that.

All in all, Awakening was a good idea, but it was horrifically executed. 

[Master Shiori]

SDNcN wrote...

Within the context of that example having the new Dragonhunter over the Warden would lead to a much stronger narrative. The other option would be the same as cutting Origin stories from DA:O and having having the Orlesian Commander from Awakening be  the main character of Origins. That would have worked just fine, but it would have remove the attachment players formed to the areas and characters from the Origin stories in favor of someone who has very little to do with the events and people in Ferelden.


If an import feature is implemented alongside new origins in DA:2 then chances are there will be little connection to the DA:O storyline. Look how things worked out in Awakening in terms of connectivity to the OC.

You want my opinion on Awakening and it's connectivity to Origins?

Awakening does play better with Orlesian warden commander. In fact that may be who Bioware originally wanted as star of the expansion.
The import option was most likely added later, which explains the poor connectivity since the dialogue for Wynne, Alistair and Oghren would have been recorded by then. Considering the limited budget for making an expansion it was probably easier for Bioware to add a few extra lines about a returning Warden then have the voice actors redo the entire thing.

The fact that they had changed their mind and allowed us to continue our Wardens should speak for itself.
The fact that every ending for an imported character was left open with "his/her story isn't over" should tell you that the idea of using them again in the future isn't unlikely.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 15 mai 2010 - 01:52 .

[WilliamShatner]

SDNcN wrote...

Because Dragon Age is a setting not a collection of characters.

The setting is boring and generic and wasn't anything interesting.

Besides people become attached to characters, not settings.  When was the last time you heard someone say about a sequel "I'm looking forward to seeing that field again!"  BioWare created memorable and beloved characters with Dragon Age - use them!

It would be like Ian Fleming writing Live and Let Lie and saying "Hey I'm going to base this book in MI6 but I'm not going to use that James Bond guy everyone loved from the first book."

Modifié par WilliamShatner, 15 mai 2010 - 01:49 .