220 réponses à ce sujet

[Johnny Jaded]

SoU was alright. Granted it had nothing whatsoever to do with NWN but as a standalone it was fairly good. HotU was undoubtedly better but that was mainly due the connection it had to the original game (I particularly liked getting to complete my romance with Aribeth)

As for KotOR2, it was handled by Obsidian, a far smaller company than BioWare, and had a rushed deadline without the huge financial support EA can give BioWare. If Obsidian hadn't been rushed TSL wouldn't have had the abysmal ending it did.

Given that BioWare have the financial support and manpower, I reckon they have the potential to pull of a decent expansion, although, admittedly, after the farce that was Awakening and the waste of resources that are the current DLC, I don't think they have their priorities in the right order to actually accomplish such an expansion

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 16 mai 2010 - 12:56 .

[Lucy Glitter]

Johnny Jaded wrote...
Given that BioWare have the financial support and manpower, I reckon they have the potential to pull of a decent expansion, although, admittedly, after the farce that was Awakening and the waste of resources that are the current DLC, I don't think they have their priorities in the right order to actually accomplish such an expansion

They seem busy on making more standalone DLC than anything else.

Though I do know they are working hard on fixing Awakening. It's taking a while, so I suppose they have big bugs to fix.

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I just don't want to see Kotor2 happen again. I mean, it really added to Kotor1. I like TSL more than just Kotor. 'Cept they were just like, "nah" and never bothered to make a last installment. If they just end Awakening... with Awakening, then what? What a crappy ending. They should have stopped it at Origins, then.

Thats my fear too. It seems as if BioWare has got this massive world and a massive timeline where they can do  Dragon Age games of all different sorts. Thats very cool and I'm excited to see where they go with that. But if they just jump from story to story, leaving plot threads hanging and never giving the PC's and companions any closure, I'll lose interest in any future DA games.

I think there is something to be said for having solid endings in games. I have no problem with leaving cliffhangers or plot hooks like Morrigan, but those are only ok if you actually follow through with them. Its like KOTOR- after TSL I was all hyped for a KOTOR3 where we see whats up with Revan and the Exile... wait no KOTOR3? Oh, instead we get The Old Republic MMO which takes place hundreds of years after TSL and is supposed to be KOTOR3, 4, 5,6, 7,8 and 9? No thanks BioWare, I'll pass.

[Johnny Jaded]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
They seem busy on making more standalone DLC than anything else.

Though I do know they are working hard on fixing Awakening. It's taking a while, so I suppose they have big bugs to fix.

They have seperate teams each working on the various things (DLC, patches, etc) so they can work on mulitple projects at once. But I agree, they seem to be focusing more on poor, contentless hack-n-slash DLC that adds nothing to the story or lore of the world or even helps explain/tie up loose ends; the only purpose being to line EAs coffers it seems.
BioWare developed a reputation for story-driven RPGs, not hack-n-slash borefests - that's Blizzard's area - and it seems they're steadily throwing it away piece by piece

[Brockololly]

Johnny Jaded wrote...
They have seperate teams each working on the various things (DLC, patches, etc) so they can work on mulitple projects at once. But I agree, they seem to be focusing more on poor, contentless hack-n-slash DLC that adds nothing to the story or lore of the world or even helps explain/tie up loose ends; the only purpose being to line EAs coffers it seems.
BioWare developed a reputation for story-driven RPGs, not hack-n-slash borefests - that's Blizzard's area - and it seems they're steadily throwing it away piece by piece

Yeah but in the end BioWare is still a business. And if the masses are tossing their money at all of the hack-n-slash DLC and that sort of thing is selling well, then what incentive would BioWare have to bother making more complex story or lore related DLC?

The Dragon Age DLC just seems like such a squandered opportunity to me- I was thinking we'd be getting more in the line of the Fallout 3 type DLC- decent size episodes that have some sort of story that adds to the lore. I still have faith in BioWare's full games for the time being, but I've kind of given up hope that we'll get much in the way of compelling story related DLC (although that rumored Leliana one could be good...)

Modifié par Brockololly, 16 mai 2010 - 06:30 .

[Nerdage]

Brockololly wrote...

Johnny Jaded wrote...
They have seperate teams each working on the various things (DLC, patches, etc) so they can work on mulitple projects at once. But I agree, they seem to be focusing more on poor, contentless hack-n-slash DLC that adds nothing to the story or lore of the world or even helps explain/tie up loose ends; the only purpose being to line EAs coffers it seems.
BioWare developed a reputation for story-driven RPGs, not hack-n-slash borefests - that's Blizzard's area - and it seems they're steadily throwing it away piece by piece

Yeah but in the end BioWare is still a business. And if the masses are tossing their money at all of the hack-n-slash DLC and that sort of thing is selling well, then what incentive would BioWare have to bother making more complex story or lore related DLC?

The Dragon Age DLC just seems like such a squandered opportunity to me- I was thinking we'd be getting more in the line of the Fallout 3 type DLC- decent size episodes that have some sort of story that adds to the lore. I still have faith in BioWare's full games for the time being, but I've kind of given up hope that we'll get much in the way of compelling story related DLC (although that rumored Leliana one could be good...)

Pardon my pessimism but I'm beginning to suspect the dlc Leliana's voice actor was talking about was darkspawn chronicles, though I don't know if Leliana even appears in dc. I hope it wasn't, I'd like Leliana back in a dlc where I'm not made to kill her, but until I hear otherwise...
Also, could we hold off on the "Bioware's lost it!" talk for a while? I'd agree that Chronicles isn't a great idea (opinion), and feast day seemed pretty pointless, but to go from that to "Oh no, EA destroyed Bioware" seems premature.

Modifié par nerdage, 16 mai 2010 - 07:56 .

[Liquidcz]

nerdage wrote...
Pardon my pessimism but I'm beginning to suspect the dlc Leliana's voice actor was talking about was darkspawn chronicles, though I don't know if Leliana even appears in dc. I hope it wasn't, I'd like Leliana back in a dlc where I'm not made to kill her, but until I hear otherwise...
Also, could we hold off on the "Bioware's lost it!" talk for a while? I'd agree that Chronicles isn't a great idea (opinion), and feast day seemed pretty pointless, but to go from that to "Oh no, EA destroyed Bioware" seems premature.

I HIGHLY doubt the companions will say anything at all in TDC, maybe except Alistair as the Warden Commander. And if they say something, it won't be anything more than few sentences, most probably not worth recording.

[Master Shiori]

Brockololly wrote...

Yeah but in the end BioWare is still a business. And if the masses are tossing their money at all of the hack-n-slash DLC and that sort of thing is selling well, then what incentive would BioWare have to bother making more complex story or lore related DLC?

The Dragon Age DLC just seems like such a squandered opportunity to me- I was thinking we'd be getting more in the line of the Fallout 3 type DLC- decent size episodes that have some sort of story that adds to the lore. I still have faith in BioWare's full games for the time being, but I've kind of given up hope that we'll get much in the way of compelling story related DLC (although that rumored Leliana one could be good...)

It's also important to note that Bioware will be monitoring the sale of Darkspawn Chronicles and should that number be lower than for previous dlc, they'll probably understand that this isn't the direction in which the fans want them to go.

Sales numbers are your best way of realizing if you're doing things right or wrong.

[Brockololly]

nerdage wrote...
Also, could we hold off on the "Bioware's lost it!" talk for a while? I'd agree that Chronicles isn't a great idea (opinion), and feast day seemed pretty pointless, but to go from that to "Oh no, EA destroyed Bioware" seems premature.

Oh, where's the fun in that? This is the internet after all, you have to speak in hyperbole and make extreme, grave statements about everything! What you say? Bioware has announced a new DLC I find lame? OUTRAGE! Rabble rabble rabble:O

[errant_knight]

So far, neither the DLC nor Awakening has matched Origins in terms storytelling, characters, and interaction, in my opinion. The recently announced DLC doesn't even try. I really can't understand why that is, but it's made my feelings about DA2 decidedly mixed. If it's a sequel, I'll put those feelings aside and buy it right away, just to deal with all the parts of the story that were left untold. If it isn't, well, we'll see. I don't want to buy another Awakening.

[Nerdage]

Liquidcz wrote...

I HIGHLY doubt the companions will say anything at all in TDC, maybe except Alistair as the Warden Commander. And if they say something, it won't be anything more than few sentences, most probably not worth recording.

True, I guess any talking would probably be the sort of combat exclamation they could lift from the Origins soundbank. But who knows, maybe it's their way of making up for not having them in Awakening.

Master Shiori wrote...

It's also important to note that
Bioware will be monitoring the sale of Darkspawn Chronicles and should
that number be lower than for previous dlc, they'll probably understand
that this isn't the direction in which the fans want them to go.

Sales
numbers are your best way of realizing if you're doing things right or
wrong.

Let's just hope that is what the fans want, I get the feeling it'll sell quite well.

[Lucy Glitter]

Brockololly wrote...


Thats my fear too. It seems as if BioWare has got this massive world and a massive timeline where they can do  Dragon Age games of all different sorts. Thats very cool and I'm excited to see where they go with that. But if they just jump from story to story, leaving plot threads hanging and never giving the PC's and companions any closure, I'll lose interest in any future DA games.

I think there is something to be said for having solid endings in games. I have no problem with leaving cliffhangers or plot hooks like Morrigan, but those are only ok if you actually follow through with them. Its like KOTOR- after TSL I was all hyped for a KOTOR3 where we see whats up with Revan and the Exile... wait no KOTOR3? Oh, instead we get The Old Republic MMO which takes place hundreds of years after TSL and is supposed to be KOTOR3, 4, 5,6, 7,8 and 9? No thanks BioWare, I'll pass.

Don't get me started on the non-existent Kotor3. I was devastated for a very long time. In the end, the MMO looks fun, sure, but it isn't hiding the fact they couldn't write an ending for KOTOR.

Johnny Jaded wrote...

BioWare developed a reputation for story-driven RPGs, not hack-n-slash borefests - that's Blizzard's area - and it seems they're steadily throwing it away piece by piece

That, and there is an almost identical player-made module already out that is exactly the same. I will support community over franchise anyday. As long as it isn't pr0n.

nerdage wrote...
Pardon my pessimism but I'm beginning to suspect the dlc Leliana's voice actor was talking about was darkspawn chronicles, though I don't know if Leliana even appears in dc. I hope it wasn't, I'd like Leliana back in a dlc where I'm not made to kill her, but until I hear otherwise...
Also, could we hold off on the "Bioware's lost it!" talk for a while? I'd agree that Chronicles isn't a great idea (opinion), and feast day seemed pretty pointless, but to go from that to "Oh no, EA destroyed Bioware" seems premature.

I do think it was her recording some cutscene lines for DC as well. I am pretty sure they will have a few cutscenes showing off the party members. 

Look, I know the whole pessimistic, "BIOWARE IS DEAD" is very irritating, but I can't help but feel so damn negative, they have yet to show they are going in that direction.

nerdage wrote...
Let's just hope that is what the fans want, I get the feeling it'll sell quite well.

I don't think it's what a lot of the fans actually wanted. Sure, they will download it, but I think more people would prefer to spend money on something plot-based. This is what I gather from various forums.

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I do think it was her recording some cutscene lines for DC as well. I am pretty sure they will have a few cutscenes showing off the party members.

Not to rain on the Darkspawn Chronicles parade, but from the preview of DC at gamespot, it seems like most of the companions kind of kick the bucket rather unceremoniously:

In the Alienage, the city's elven slums, we led the charge to "crush the
spirit of the elves" by torching the tree at its centre. The tree
succumbed to an emissary's fireball, as did the elven rogue Zevran
shortly after. It's a shame most former party characters expire
unceremoniously, with nary a cutscene to mark their passing, especially
given that Bartel says BioWare intended to "tug the heartstrings" by
making you slaughter your former allies and love interests.

Thats not to say they might not have some cutscenes in there, but I guess we will find out soon enough.

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I don't think it's what a lot of the fans actually wanted. Sure, they will download it, but I think more people would prefer to spend money on something plot-based. This is what I gather from various forums.

Bingo- I play BioWare games for the story , characters and dialogue first and foremost. Thats not to say I don't enjoy the combat and such, but if I want a hack-n-slash, there are other games that do it far better. Its a shame to seemingly see the DLC and Awakening be rushed or underwhelming such that the story and characters lack the polish and quality you'd expect from past BioWare games.

[Lucy Glitter]

Brockololly wrote...

Not to rain on the Darkspawn Chronicles parade, but from the preview of DC at gamespot, it seems like most of the companions kind of kick the bucket rather unceremoniously:

In the Alienage, the city's elven slums, we led the charge to "crush the
spirit of the elves" by torching the tree at its centre. The tree
succumbed to an emissary's fireball, as did the elven rogue Zevran
shortly after. It's a shame most former party characters expire
unceremoniously, with nary a cutscene to mark their passing, especially
given that Bartel says BioWare intended to "tug the heartstrings" by
making you slaughter your former allies and love interests.

Thats not to say they might not have some cutscenes in there, but I guess we will find out soon enough.

""tug the heartstrings" by 
making you slaughter your former allies and love interests."? Um, then why would you play it? I don't really want to kill my companions, tbh. Sure, I like alternate realities, but... I would prefer a comic about it. Btw, would Zev even have been recruited if the Warden wasn't there? No one but the Warden actually approved of not killing him. 

Geh.

Brockololly wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...
I don't think it's what a lot of the fans actually wanted. Sure, they will download it, but I think more people would prefer to spend money on something plot-based. This is what I gather from various forums.

Bingo- I play BioWare games for the story , characters and dialogue first and foremost. Thats not to say I don't enjoy the combat and such, but if I want a hack-n-slash, there are other games that do it far better. Its a shame to seemingly see the DLC and Awakening be rushed or underwhelming such that the story and characters lack the polish and quality you'd expect from past BioWare games.

Indeed. The combat is nice, it is refreshing to play combat and use your brain to think out strategies, but what else? Plus have I mentioned I find killing my companions off unappealing? 

[Lucy Glitter]

Hey, Awakening was a bloody great story, but the rest of it was just disappointing. I can't say I liked the companions, either. I loved Sigrun and Justice, but the whole time I was just missing my old companions. I mean, hey, Oggie was funny, but he was... just depressing... what happened to him? He became... a jerk.

The one reason I haven't told BioWare to go away, is for their writing team, which is exceptional.

Jade Empire had a good end, agreed.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 17 mai 2010 - 07:44 .

[Johnny Jaded]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Johnny Jaded wrote...

BioWare developed a reputation for story-driven RPGs, not hack-n-slash borefests - that's Blizzard's area - and it seems they're steadily throwing it away piece by piece

That, and there is an almost identical player-made module already out that is exactly the same. I will support community over franchise anyday. As long as it isn't pr0n.

I was referring to pretty much all their DLC - DC, RtO, even SP was mostly hanck-n-slash; WK was the only one that added anything remotely tangible to the lore and it wasn't anything substantial at that.
The fact that there's a player-made mod out there that does the same (and for FREE no less) kinda defeats the purpose of the DLC. I get the feeling that BioWare's thread asking for favourite mods is a way for them to make money by making similiar DLC for the console market.

scyphozoa wrote...

I will agree that BW has a lot of difficulty delivering DLC that the core fanbase wants. Which is basically as much lore, story, dialogue and cinematics as possible.

This. BioWare should focus on what their core fanbase want - the people who have stuck with them since BG or NWN or whatever game it was that earned the players' adoration - not the casual gamers who are fleeting and only care about the next cool-looking thing.
I understand it's a business and they need to make money, but the casual gamer isn't going to buy every title because it has "BioWare" on the box. If they go down that route, BioWare are going to lose the well deserved fans and flop - something EA doesn't quite understand, and I doubt they ever will

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 17 mai 2010 - 03:27 .

[SDNcN]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

The fact that there's a player-made mod out there that does the same (and for FREE no less) kinda defeats the purpose of the DLC. I get the feeling that BioWare's thread asking for favourite mods is a way for them to make money by making similiar DLC for the console market.

I kind of assumed they were going to showcase one or some of the favorite mods at E3 as an example of what the Eclipse engine's toolset.

That or they are planning on doing the "Best of Community" DLC some of the Devs have talked about. Essentially taking the most popular mods and transfering them to the consoles. They've been pretty open with that and that idea has been around for awhile.

If they were really "stealing" ideas for DLC do you think they would so overt?

This. BioWare should focus on what their core fanbase want - the people who have stuck with them since BG or NWN or whatever game it was that earned the players' adoration - not the casual gamers who are fleeting and only care about the next cool-looking thing.
I understand it's a business and they need to make money, but the casual gamer isn't going to buy every title because it has "BioWare" on the box. If they go down that route, BioWare are going to lose the well deserved fans and flop - something EA doesn't quite understand, and I doubt they ever will

It would actually be interesting if they made a DLC that was focused on dialogue and cutscenes. I say they should try it and see how well it sells. My guess is that the lack of combat will turn off an equal number of people and sales will be similar to the other DLC.

[Johnny Jaded]

SDNcN wrote...
I kind of assumed they were going to showcase one or some of the favorite mods at E3 as an example of what the Eclipse engine's toolset.

That or they are planning on doing the "Best of Community" DLC some of the Devs have talked about. Essentially taking the most popular mods and transfering them to the consoles. They've been pretty open with that and that idea has been around for awhile.

If they were really "stealing" ideas for DLC do you think they would so overt?

Well, my initial assumption is that it's for a "best of community" thing but quite frankly I wouldn't put anything past EA. They could easily be taking the best mods and porting them to consoles but they'd undoubtedly be selling them, not giving them away, as the toolset is the property of BioWare/EA and thus anything created with it can techniquely be considered theirs

It would actually be interesting if they made a DLC that was focused on dialogue and cutscenes. I say they should try it and see how well it sells. My guess is that the lack of combat will turn off an equal number of people and sales will be similar to the other DLC.

I don't think any DLC should be heavy on either combat or dialogue. They should strike a balance between the two. For example, RtO would have been far better if you could talk to Alistair, Wynne and secret companion about how they feel about returning rather than just the background banter.
I'd like something story/lore-based with dialogue and cutscenes but there needs to be some combat otherwise it'll just feel somewhat stale

Modifié par Johnny Jaded, 17 mai 2010 - 05:16 .

[SDNcN]

Johnny Jaded wrote...

Well, my initial assumption is that it's for a "best of community" thing but quite frankly I wouldn't put anything past EA. They could easily be taking the best mods and porting them to consoles but they'd undoubtedly be selling them, not giving them away, as the toolset is the property of BioWare/EA and thus anything created with it can techniquely be considered theirs

If it does happen I really hope they find a way to make it free -- maybe have a third party sponsor content. It isn't hard to see the potential bad press that could happen otherwise.

I don't think any DLC should be heavy on either combat or dialogue. They should strike a balance between the two. For example, RtO would have been far better if you could talk to Alistair, Wynne and secret companion about how they feel about returning rather than just the background banter.
I'd like something story/lore-based with dialogue and cutscenes but there needs to be some combat otherwise it'll just feel somewhat stale

Or the cup.
I know I am not the only one who picked that up thing up thinking was going to see an awesome scene with Alistair.

[Johnny Jaded]

SDNcN wrote...

Or the cup.
I know I am not the only one who picked that up thing up thinking was going to see an awesome scene with Alistair.

I was expecting a little cutscene with that, something along the lines of Duncan's shield or his mother's amulet. RtO had so much potential and squandered opportunities

[Tinxa]

scyphozoa wrote...
as for KOTOR3, I longed for KOTOR 3 for years but I also don't think that KOTOR1 ended in a way that was "unfinished." "the hero rides off into the sunset to drive back unnamed enemies." is a pretty generic ending, but it still is an ending imo.

KOTOR1 had a great ending. You either got a medal ceremony cutscene or an "emperor overlooking troops" scene. I wish they weren't as afraid of definitive endings in DA without the obligatory "...but the hero's story isn't over yet..." and the "one day the hero disappeared..."  why can't the ending say ".. they ruled happily and when the time came went to Orzammar together." or something.

Still I think DA ending wrapped things up rather nicely if you aren't too invested in Morrigan. For all the other chars it says where they end up and what they do. But maybe Morrigan with child was meant to be a sort of sad open ending for those who romanced her and not a deliberate plothook for future games as some are sooooo convinced, like a movie that ends and leaves things to your interpretation.

[Lucy Glitter]

SDNcN wrote...

This. BioWare should focus on what their core fanbase want - the people who have stuck with them since BG or NWN or whatever game it was that earned the players' adoration - not the casual gamers who are fleeting and only care about the next cool-looking thing.
I understand it's a business and they need to make money, but the casual gamer isn't going to buy every title because it has "BioWare" on the box. If they go down that route, BioWare are going to lose the well deserved fans and flop - something EA doesn't quite understand, and I doubt they ever will

It would actually be interesting if they made a DLC that was focused on dialogue and cutscenes. I say they should try it and see how well it sells. My guess is that the lack of combat will turn off an equal number of people and sales will be similar to the other DLC.

I disagree. I think it would sell very well. I talk to a lot of shooter/hack'n'slash fans, who play BioWare games because of their cinematic quality and storyline. Everyone likes a good story, why wouldn't they buy a good story-based DLC?

Johnny Jaded wrote...


Well, my initial assumption is that it's for a "best of community" thing but quite frankly I wouldn't put anything past EA. They could easily be taking the best mods and porting them to consoles but they'd undoubtedly be selling them, not giving them away, as the toolset is the property of BioWare/EA and thus anything created with it can techniquely be considered theirs

There would be a ****storm if they did that. I can imagine a few lawsuits, too. I know they technically own everything, but I know a few laws out there that criss cross with their contract agreement. Plus, I put a **** load of work for free into a module, as in, me personally, as well as my friends. I wouldn't take that.

Tinxa wrote...
Still I think DA ending wrapped things up rather nicely if you aren't too invested in Morrigan. For all the other chars it says where they end up and what they do. But maybe Morrigan with child was meant to be a sort of sad open ending for those who romanced her and not a deliberate plothook for future games as some are sooooo convinced, like a movie that ends and leaves things to your interpretation.

I don't think it was left open to interpretation. That kind of thing is way too big for an open for interpretation. She is having a goddamn Old God. Lol.

Also, Arl Foreshadow says that's next on their list. Just a by the by. 

Lost countenance: Ferelden to Orlesian Phrase Book-Must not offend the potential landlords

Raising Spirits: Offsprings and the Fade-Terrible two's indeed!

Forest Fall: Truth and Legend in the Search for Arlathan-Survivors? poppycock!

The Origin of Theses: Knowing more than Everyone without Looking Like a Jackass-Never get the time to read this. Maybe there's a stage play?

Already had "potential Orlesian landlords", now we have raising spirits. 

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 18 mai 2010 - 06:14 .

[Tindl]

anyone notice that Duncan's body wasn't found? The King was hung up, and Duncan died very close to him. Maybe a sequel could take place around Duncan?



They haven't covered Orlais, either. So that is another possible - Orlais tries to retake Feralden again.



I tried Awakenings. I felt disappointed. I really, really missed Alistair, Morrigan and Shale. I hated Oghren, and was NOT happy to have only his return (well, apart from Wynne, but don't count her 'walk on' role), and to then be stuck with him until I could get Justice .. whom I didn't really like, either. Meh, rats, lets face it, I loved Alistair's character, and noone was going to take his place.



If a sequel is made, I truly hope it isn't like Awakenings. I shall cry.

[Master Shiori]

Tinxa wrote...

Still I think DA ending wrapped things up rather nicely if you aren't too invested in Morrigan. For all the other chars it says where they end up and what they do. But maybe Morrigan with child was meant to be a sort of sad open ending for those who romanced her and not a deliberate plothook for future games as some are sooooo convinced, like a movie that ends and leaves things to your interpretation.

Can't really agree with the"Awakening ending wraps things nicely" line.

Sure, my main Warden left to search for his lover, and "maybe he found her or maybe he didn't" pretty much leaves his final fate open to imagination, especially if they never continue Morrigan's story.

However, my other Warden married Anora and became prince-consort. At the end of Awakening he returns to court in Denerim only to misteriously leave a few years later. If Bioware really wanted to wrap his story why have him disappear for misterious reasons and then claim his story isn't over? That hardly sounds like an ending to me...

Modifié par Master Shiori, 18 mai 2010 - 09:24 .