220 réponses à ce sujet

[Brockololly]

Vicious wrote...

Sorry guys, but I see no way they can possibly build off Awakenings seeing as how they didn't bother to throw in a POST CAMPAIGN SAVE.

The thing with Awakening is that even in the event that they let us import into the next game, I'm quite sure that the actual importing would only be from Origins, not Awakening. I mean the only big decision you can make that might affect future games would be the fate of the Architect . The lack of a post campaign save doesn't really mean much when there's only one big choice and even that would be included before the last save before the final boss fight. Given that only a fraction of people who bought Origins would have Awakening, I'd imagine if they want to pick up story threads from Awakening they could canonize stuff or give you choices in dialogue a la KOTOR2. It all depends on where BioWare wants to take the story.

Vicious wrote...
Seriously, people would love if they went back and redid Morrigan's dark promise and did the version the writers wanted people to recieve if they romanced Morrigan - and also put back in cut content or finish it out.

I think those DLCs are what we all want to see.

And they aren't going to happen. So far they have never revisited anything already done, they have merely added stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff.

it's getting pretty clear that Bioware has zero interest in revisiting the unfinished parts of this game and ESPECIALLY unfinished parts of Awakenings. And that, unfortunately, includes the ending.

Well as nice as it might be for BioWare to do something like CD Projekt did with the Witcher and release a fancied
up complete enhanced edition of Origins, I have no illusions they'll do such a thing. I think that at least what some of us are just thinking is that some of the potentially cut material like the Zev/Leliana letters from Awakening might mean that sort of thing is being expanded on in DLC. Maybe, maybe not, but we just don't know at this point.

Vicious wrote...
Besides, was the team that put Awakenings together the same team that put together DAO? Or were they already working on DA2? What were the writers told to create, an adventure which continues the story of DAO, or a brand new adventure where importing your previous character is a bonus?

I believe that the Awakening team is composed of people that worked on Origins, they're just working on DLC and such now. But BioWare has multiple teams working on multiple things, so its not impossible that they've been working on DA2 for a while too. I remember back to the old Mass Effect forums in September 2009 when a ME writer mentioned some writers were working on DA2 ( here is the link: http://www.destructo...ng-147786.phtml). 

But yeah, I'd be curious if Awakening started out just with the Orlesian Warden in mind and then they plunked the Origins Warden and import feature in later on. Probably we'll just never know...

Modifié par Brockololly, 21 mai 2010 - 04:32 .

[hexaligned]

I don'[t think there's much hope of Awakening based DLC, just for the simple fact they would be limiting their potential customer base, much harder to turn a profit.

Although if memory serves, didn't Gaider release an independent patch for the BG2 expansion? It wasn't official, and it was free, but it added some new things to TOB. I think the best people who want this kind of content can hope for is something like this. Unofficial fan service if a dev decides to take it upon their selves to do it.

Modifié par relhart, 21 mai 2010 - 05:11 .

[Brockololly]

relhart wrote...

I don'[t think there's much hope of Awakening based DLC, just for the simple fact they wold be limiting their potential customer base, much harder to turn a profit.

Although if memory serves, didn't Gaider release an independent patch for the BG2 expansion? It wasn't official, and it was free, but it added some new things to TOB. I think the best people who want this kind of content can hope for is something like this. Unofficial fan service if a dev decides to take it upon their selves to do it.

That is true about Throne of Bhaal...the Ascension mod if I recall, was written by Gaider. Given how much bigger and more complex games are now though I doubt we'd see something like that, although it would be pretty cool.

[Master Shiori]

relhart wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Vicious wrote...

*looks at the epilogues*

You guys don't really think they are going to even attempt to cover all those possibilities, are you? If they only cover a few, many people are going to be horribly disserviced. Better to rinse their hands and start anew, as many dev comments have indicated they will.

If they wrote that in a game epilogue (of all places) then yes, I have every right to expect them to follow up on that.
How they do it isn't my concern, since nobody forced them to write that. They could have just as easily left things a bit vague, or even attempted to provide closure to all these wardens in some way.
This, however, can't be considered a closure at all, since they're basically turning a closed story into an open ended one.

No, you have 0 right to expect anything other than what you already payed for.  No one forced them to write it? No one forced you to buy it.  They are not obligated in any way to provide something just because you personaly want it.  They will make the game THEY want to, if you aren't happy with it, don't buy it, but drop the pretense of entitlement.  There is nothign wrong with opened ended endings, it's not like this is the first story to have one, they do infact serve a literary purpose, if that's the writers intent, so be it.

What I payed for is the story with a clear ending.
That's exactly what I had until that "His/her story isn't over" line. No, the writers don't owe me anything and can do whatever they please. But if you leave a line like that at the end of a game, then you're basically making a statement. Making an open ending only makes sense if you actually plan to do something with that character later. Otherwise there is no point in writing something like that, especially if the story would clearly be over without it.

They don't have to follow on it if they don't want to, but the fact they actually left the option open means they just might.

[Lucy Glitter]

Vicious wrote...

And they aren't going to happen. So far they have never revisited anything already done, they have merely added stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff, and more stuff.

it's getting pretty clear that Bioware has zero interest in revisiting the unfinished parts of this game and ESPECIALLY unfinished parts of Awakenings. And that, unfortunately, includes the ending.


Besides, was the team that put Awakenings together the same team that put together DAO? Or were they already working on DA2? What were the writers told to create, an adventure which continues the story of DAO, or a brand new adventure where importing your previous character is a bonus?

 Who ever said anything about revisiting anything?  You can't revisit an ending, it opens up new plotlines, sure, but you can't revisit an epilogue and redo it, why would you? You don't know if they are working on an XP or a sequel. 

Morrigan's story hasn't even started yet, what are you on about? 

Master Shiori wrote...

What I payed for is the story with a clear ending.
That's exactly what I had until that "His/her story isn't over" line. No, the writers don't owe me anything and can do whatever they please. But if you leave a line like that at the end of a game, then you're basically making a statement. Making an open ending only makes sense if you actually plan to do something with that character later. Otherwise there is no point in writing something like that, especially if the story would clearly be over without it.

They don't have to follow on it if they don't want to, but the fact they actually left the option open means they just might.

They, unfortunately, did it for HotU. Movies do it, aswell. They leave it open for a sequel incase they get enough money and interest.

Granted, HotU did have a solid conclusion. The Warden does have a few (very big) loose ends.

[Master Shiori]

Err, I might be missing something but HotU was clearly the end of the road for that pc. We got a satisfying closure to his story and there were no lose ends left that I can remember.



As far as I know KOTOR 1 and Jade empire had closure and no lose ends were left.

Throne of Bhaal and HotU likewise provided closure for BG saga and NWN respectively.

None of these had a "His/her story isn't over line" which is why I can't believe Bioware would pull something like that now if there wasn't a possibility of at least 1 more expansion for the Warden.



Could be wrong ofc, but their previous thrends and the fact the writers keep repeating that anything is possible makes me believe all options are truly open right now.

[hexaligned]

I have a constructive suggestion, so take it for what it's worth. You guys seem pretty passionate about the topic. Instead of waiting on Bioware to release something that they may or may not ever do. Why not pool your efforts and mod it yourselves? I realize it's not the same thing as expieriencing it from the original writers perspective, but you may find some value in the creative process itself, not to mention all the other people with similar interest in this you would make smile.

[Lucy Glitter]

HotU, as I recall, had the, "his/her story isn't over" (I think) but as you said, it was all wrapped up nicely anyhow.

relhart wrote...

I have a constructive suggestion, so take it for what it's worth. You guys seem pretty passionate about the topic. Instead of waiting on Bioware to release something that they may or may not ever do. Why not pool your efforts and mod it yourselves? I realize it's not the same thing as expieriencing it from the original writers perspective, but you may find some value in the creative process itself, not to mention all the other people with similar interest in this you would make smile.

Um. No. I'd prefer to work on an addin for DA with entirely original content. Which I am doing now.

I am sorry, I thought this was a place for discussion, which is what we are doing now. Discussing.

Modifié par Lucy_Glitter, 21 mai 2010 - 09:15 .

[Proposition_Joe]

I dont think Bioware know themselves, the line " His/her story isn't over " is just a way for them to cover all bases. They just seem to make things up as they go along, there doesnt seem to be a plan to what they are producing. At least it seems that way from the outside.

[Lucy Glitter]

Proposition_Joe wrote...

I dont think Bioware know themselves, the line " His/her story isn't over " is just a way for them to cover all bases. They just seem to make things up as they go along, there doesnt seem to be a plan to what they are producing. At least it seems that way from the outside.

They have a set plan, actually. They would have to, they take ages to produce/write everything up before it gets made.

[Master Shiori]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Proposition_Joe wrote...

I dont think Bioware know themselves, the line " His/her story isn't over " is just a way for them to cover all bases. They just seem to make things up as they go along, there doesnt seem to be a plan to what they are producing. At least it seems that way from the outside.

They have a set plan, actually. They would have to, they take ages to produce/write everything up before it gets made.

That's what I find frustrating about DA in general. It's a very promising series by what I've seen in Origins, but there's not even a rough indication of what their long term plan is.
When asked about where it's all going, folks at Bioware seem to love stressing how they have a lot of options and that anything is possible.

By comparison, the develophers of ME not only gave us a clear picture of what the focus of the series is, but also went into details and revealed their plan for future dlc content.

We'll most likely get some DA related news at this E3, but until then it's anybody's guess as to where this is all going.

[Lucy Glitter]

When is E3?

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

When is E3?

EA has their presentation June 14th- the whole show goes June 15th-17th

[Lucy Glitter]

So close, let's hope we get some news so we can end this torment of waiting!

[Tirigon]

relhart wrote...

I have a constructive suggestion, so take it for what it's worth. You guys seem pretty passionate about the topic. Instead of waiting on Bioware to release something that they may or may not ever do. Why not pool your efforts and mod it yourselves? I realize it's not the same thing as expieriencing it from the original writers perspective, but you may find some value in the creative process itself, not to mention all the other people with similar interest in this you would make smile.

Install the toolset for me (I tried, but it doesn´t work for some reason) and teach me how to use it and I´ll do right that. You´ll even be mentioned in the creditsB)

Until you have done that, however, you should remember that not every DAO player is an experienced programmer / modder.

[Vicious]

Morrigan's story hasn't even started yet, what are you on about?
 

You are operating under assumptionsthat could likely prove false. I honestly wonder what your and others reactions will be if Morrigan's story is not revisited for DA2, and The Warden is left as a dangling plotline only to be referred back to?
Massive head explosions and boycotting future games, I'm guessing. 

[Brockololly]

Vicious wrote...

Morrigan's story hasn't even started yet, what are you on about?
 

You are operating under assumptionsthat could likely prove false. I honestly wonder what your and others reactions will be if Morrigan's story is not revisited for DA2, and The Warden is left as a dangling plotline only to be referred back to?
Massive head explosions and boycotting future games, I'm guessing. 

BioWare has said several times before that we haven't seen the last of Morrigan. Given how the end game of Origins plays out with Morrigan its not too much of a stretch to think she'll return and we'll see more of her story. Of course, BioWare could do any number of things and not bring her back ever again. But given that she's been marketed as the face of Dragon Age and un-killable in Origins, I don't think BioWare is dumb enough to just leave her story as a major loose end.

But at this stage, unless you're working for BioWare, we're all working off of assumptions and speculation.

[Nerdage]

Brockololly wrote...

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

When is E3?

EA has their presentation June 14th- the whole show goes June 15th-17th

Right in the middle of my A-levels, how very inconsiderate...

Anyway, I'd be quite happy if alot of the loose ends were just left open, I'd probably be the only one though. Morrigan, for example, I'm sure her story could be very interesting (and I'm sure it will be, incidentally) but I'd be fine if it never got a mention. Not knowing the consequences of your decisions, or at least not being able to change them, makes making them all the more interesting. If it does come up I hope there are real consequences to your decision (by which I mean consequences you can't immediately rectify), knowing that you can have your cake and eat it too can detract from the gravity of the decisions.

That's me, anyway, please don't hurt me.

Modifié par nerdage, 21 mai 2010 - 08:57 .

[Master Shiori]

I must admit I'm not a fan of leaving the plot thread dangling never to be resolved.



The good thing about knowing the consequences of your actions is that it makes the actions themselves that much more interesting and meaningful.



If there are no consequences there's not much difference in what you decide since you never see the results of such a decision.

[Kail Ashton]

lol course after all this watch as DA2 is a prequel, can just imagine the mass explosion rage that'll go down over that, i'm torn, on the one hand watching people go to canada with torches & pitchforks would be fun but on the other hand i'd want to join em if it is a prequel, it' a toughie

[Brockololly]

Kail Ashton wrote...

lol course after all this watch as DA2 is a prequel, can just imagine the mass explosion rage that'll go down over that, i'm torn, on the one hand watching people go to canada with torches & pitchforks would be fun but on the other hand i'd want to join em if it is a prequel, it' a toughie

I wouldn't be opposed to a prequel down the road, but to do one right after the first game in the series? I don't know, generally I'm not too keen on prequels. If its something too close chronologically with Origins dealing with Duncan and Maric or something then the problem is that we already know their fates and thus lose a bunch of any suspense- not to mention that we've already got Gaider's books.

But if its something more far removed, like maybe set during Andraste's time or during the 1st Blight, or maybe dealing with Flemeth long ago,  even though we kind of know the broad strokes of what happened, it could be pretty cool to explore.Something more like KOTOR's timeline compared to the original trilogy as opposed to the Prequels.  But I kind of doubt they would jump to a prequel after only one game in the series. But what do I know...

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 mai 2010 - 02:24 .

[GardenSnake]

Indoctrination wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Personally, I'm thinking DA2 will have a new hero. However, thats really not what I'd prefer. I really, really, really want the Warden back for at least one more ful fledged sequel.

I can understand why people would want their Warden to keep returning for adventure after adventure. Afterall, we put so much time in to them, developed them, and watched them change the world around them. However, ask yourself the following question: what's left for the Warden? The Grey Wardens battle the Blight and the darkspawn. The 5th Blight was ended, and The Archetecht's story has been fishined up. What's left for your Warden to battle against exactly? Do you really want BioWare to go fishing for some excuse for the bring the darkspawn back as the consuming force of evil again? Even the Archetecht vs. Mother storyline was really pushing it, to be quite honest. There's only so much fishing they can do with the darkspawn before it becomes silly.

In my opinion, it's better to just have a brand new character in DA2 who isn't a Warden. BioWare can even think ahead and plan for the expansions so all of the endings can be properly accomodated in the expansions unlike in DA:O where a lack of preparation for expansions has made it so some endings are disenfranchised, characters from the main game are used extremely sparringly, etc, etc.

Did everybody miss the line in the epilouge about the PC leaving the Wardens or something? The PC leaves the Wardens which frees them up from fighting Darkspawn. Boom, there you go.

[Lucy Glitter]

Does he/she? Or do they just leave the role of the Commander?

[GardenSnake]

Master Shiori wrote...

relhart wrote...

Master Shiori wrote...

Vicious wrote...

*looks at the epilogues*

You guys don't really think they are going to even attempt to cover all those possibilities, are you? If they only cover a few, many people are going to be horribly disserviced. Better to rinse their hands and start anew, as many dev comments have indicated they will.

If they wrote that in a game epilogue (of all places) then yes, I have every right to expect them to follow up on that.
How they do it isn't my concern, since nobody forced them to write that. They could have just as easily left things a bit vague, or even attempted to provide closure to all these wardens in some way.
This, however, can't be considered a closure at all, since they're basically turning a closed story into an open ended one.

No, you have 0 right to expect anything other than what you already payed for.  No one forced them to write it? No one forced you to buy it.  They are not obligated in any way to provide something just because you personaly want it.  They will make the game THEY want to, if you aren't happy with it, don't buy it, but drop the pretense of entitlement.  There is nothign wrong with opened ended endings, it's not like this is the first story to have one, they do infact serve a literary purpose, if that's the writers intent, so be it.

What I payed for is the story with a clear ending.
That's exactly what I had until that "His/her story isn't over" line. No, the writers don't owe me anything and can do whatever they please. But if you leave a line like that at the end of a game, then you're basically making a statement. Making an open ending only makes sense if you actually plan to do something with that character later. Otherwise there is no point in writing something like that, especially if the story would clearly be over without it.

They don't have to follow on it if they don't want to, but the fact they actually left the option open means they just might.

Agreed. The second I saw that line I thought to myself, "Oh snap, there's gonna be a sequal"

[Brockololly]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

Does he/she? Or do they just leave the role of the Commander?

Yeah, I don't think the Warden left the Wardens completely, they just ditched their role as Commander of the Grey at Vigil's Keep. Or at least thats what I remember anyway...