159 réponses à ce sujet

[glacier1701]

Well the Derelict reaper looks to be the exact same design as Sovereign so would say that in 37 million years they dont change the design of the ships.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

foolish replica wrote...

question. does anybody know when keiji acquired this info? i ask because, if it's after the battle of the citadel
it could mean the alliance actually did take the reaper threat seriously  and it's proof of experimentation
on sov's remains. so, my point is...back -engineered alliance reaper?

you sir have asked an very important question...that could very well unlock this mystery.

Modifié par Andrew_Waltfeld, 16 mai 2010 - 10:17 .

[foolish replica]

it just came to me really, i mean, c'mon the alliance HAD to have gotten their hands on SOME of sov's remains; to say they didn't well, that's just pure foolishness. the turians damn sure did, and

SURE the salarians are cooking something up; hell, i bet you the council knows ALL about it too

but frankly, it scare's the crap out of them.

[Wraith_3]

I just got done reading the book and was wondering the same thing. Maybe the Alliance was aware of the research and was letting it play out. That way they had deniability.



Also according to the game and second book the Alliance had a much larger fleet at the Citadel post Sovereign's attack, so they would have been stupid to not pick up as much material from Sovereign as they could carry away!

[JKoopman]

glacier1701 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

glacier1701 wrote...

The problem with the grey box picture is that it shows the appendages as being attached ALONG the WHOLE length of the body. In the reapers the appendages all appear to be at the front end and NOT along the length. Its why I think that that first pic is not one of a reaper.

What do you mean? All you see in the greybox picture is the front section of the reaper; the long tail section is cut off by the top of the image.

If you match up the light patterns you can see this even more clearly. In the top picture of Sovereign the "enclosed square" part of the pattern matches up roughly with the end of the front "leg" section of the body and the beginning of the "tail" section, as does the pattern in the image from the greybox.

Ok take a look at the 'arms'. They are at the front arrayed around the front end. The grey box picture shows them arrayed along the length on either side. The underside lighting patter does not matter. This is a reaper. Whatever that is in the grey box picture is NOT a reaper.

(Borrowed the pic from the motivational thread as I do not have a screenshot from ME1)

BTW there should be vids of Sovereign and basically when it arrives at the Citadel its arms are folded in front of its 'face'. The thing in the grey box does not have long enough arms to be able to do that. And from what little we see of reapers in ME2 they all seem to conform to the general pattern of arms at the front arrayed around the front end and NOT arrayed along the length of the sides.

Uhhh... no. I don't know what goofy shot of Sovereign that is, but this is what Sovereign looks like.





You can even see in THIS VIDEO the way that it's arms are arranged. It may be able to extend them all forward, but they're clearly arranged symmetrically from it's sides, not all from the front. The length of the arms in the greybox image is a bit misleading as the angle means they could be extending quite a ways outward towards the camera and be far longer than they appear. You're also only seeing about 1/3rd of it's entire length.

[GothamLord]

Its more likely the derelict reaper and proof that Cerberus isnt so *rogue* after all within the Alliance.

[Darc_Requiem]

Nice find Gothamlord. That has to be a Reaper. It nice of Bioware to include such a small detail like this.

[Homebound]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Or it might be Sovereign because I was looking at that picture the wrong way. Now I'm really unsure on what to do with the data. In any case, here's a more zoomed in pic from the wiki:

so wtf am I looking at here?

[glacier1701]

Just_mike wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Or it might be Sovereign because I was looking at that picture the wrong way. Now I'm really unsure on what to do with the data. In any case, here's a more zoomed in pic from the wiki:

so wtf am I looking at here?

 This is a pic from Kasumi's DLC when we get to see inside the grey box. There is discussion on whether or not this is a reaper since some of the info inside the box could mean war. I am in a minority in believing that this is not a reaper (there is SOME resemblance I admit but not enough and certainly not from the claim being because of markings).

 Just had an additional thought here - this is from PAID DLC. As such that means ANY info from it cannot be assumed to be in the next game OR important enough to mean much. Remember that when ME3 starts the assumption has to be that the player has NOT obtained ANY of the DLC issued between ME2 and ME3. The ONLY way this could be important would be if somewhere in ME3 this was given to us in some manner. In other words perhaps it is a reaper but its throwaway material because its NOT in the original ME2 game.

[Kaiser Shepard]

It's status as part of the main story may be debatable, but it is part of the canon and Kasumi WAS supposed to be part of the main game at some point. Take that as you will.

It IS a Reaper, though, that much is sure. Which Reaper, however, is the real question. It can be any of the following:
-Sovereign, before Had'dah got across him. Which means Sovereign wasn't the Leviathan of Dis.
-Sovereign, rebuilt after the Battle of the Citadel
-The derelict Reaper, with Keiji not knowing the difference between Cerberus and the Alliance (if any) and procuring Kasumi's service being our illusive friend's way of dealing with the problem. Kasumi said Cerberus had been tailing for her for a while...
-A third unknown Reaper

As for it possibly being the derelict Reaper, it's hard to look at it, Sovereign and Keiji's pic without getting confused about the angles: it could very well be so that it's hole would have to be visible on the pic if it was, but it's rather hard to find out...

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 22 mai 2010 - 02:29 .

[Dean_the_Young]

Sovereign was never the Leviathan of Dis. The Batarians took the Leviathan of Dis, which is why it disappeared.

[badkenbad]

[Kaiser Shepard]

Sovereign:

Discovery

In 2162, one of Edan Had'dah (Had survey teams discovered Sovereign orbiting an uncharted world in an obscure star system near the Perseus Veil. Had'dah was a batarian entrepreneur who sent teams out to find ancient alien technology, usually Prothean, and either sold or researched it for profit. But when his people reported their find, Had'dah soon realised he had something unprecedented on his hands.

Had'dah quickly isolated the survey team on the planet and searched for an expert who could help him unlock Sovereign's secrets. He eventually found Dr. Shu Qian, whose defection from the Alliance sparked the events of Mass Effect: Revelation.

But Sovereign's indoctrination effect was already working on Qian. Even a brief visit to the "artifact" also affected Had'dah's mind, until the two were obsessed with researching the ship. During his investigation, Saren Arterius became intrigued by what he heard, wondering if Sovereign was the weapon he had been looking for to bring humanity to its knees. He killed both Qian and Had'dah and took their research, then went to find Sovereign of his own accord.

Leviathan of Dis:

The Leviathan of Dis is the name given to a gigantic corpse that disappeared from a crater on Jartar in 2162/2163. It is believed to be the remains of a genetically engineered starship and its age was originally placed at nearly a billion years old.

However there was little time to study it. Not long after its discovery by a batarian survey team, a batarian dreadnought visited the Dis system, after which the Leviathan mysteriously disappeared. The batarians have since strenuously denied that the Leviathan existed at all. They become even more vocal when showed documentation of the Leviathan by salarian researchers before its disappearance.

---

What doesn´t match up is Sovereign apparently being found in orbit around a planet and Dis being found in a crater on one. Also, what is the exact location of the Perseus Veil?

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 22 mai 2010 - 02:46 .

[Dean_the_Young]

In 2162, Sovereign, a functional synthetic warship, was orbiting an uncharted world near the Perseus veil.

In 2162, the Leviathan of Dis, a non-functioning organic corpse, was lying in a crater on a charted world.

In 2162, a Batarian entrepreneur isolated his team and kept Sovereign hidden.

In 2163, a Batarian dreadnaught took the organic corpse away but not before a Salarian team documented it.




Things that match up: Batarian survey teams. Year of discovery.

Things that do not match up: composition of the find, functionality of the find, people who did the find, location, reaction, outside verification.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 22 mai 2010 - 02:55 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

I believe I pointed out that the dates did not match before, but take into consideration that the ´2163´ in which the batarians took Dis is simply derived from the planet description of Jarter from Mass 1, which mentions ''twenty years before'' or something like that, which, considering the fact that the game takes place in 2183 could probably just as well refer to 2162

[Zulu_DFA]

gmartin40 wrote...

I'm gonna put the pieces together. After colonizing Mars and finding Prothean technology, the Alliance ventures out to start exploring the stars. They run into something massive. A Reaper. They decide to salvage it into some type of Alliance storage. The Reaper acts up and comes alive. It ends up destroying the Alliance base. The Alliance decides not to tell people on Earth because people would panic about something big on the loose. It turns out the Reaper is Soverign. Something so deadly that could destroy anything in its path. Few years later the events of Mass Effect: Revelation happen. The Reaper found by the Alliance is hiding because it is waiting for the Return so that they can take over the Milky Way galaxy. Saren finds the Reaper, ME1 happens then ME2 then the Reapers decide to return. The end.

*BEEP* *BEEP* *BEEP* PLOT HOLE ALERT!

Why would Sovereign attack the Citadel, if it only had to wait?

[Zulu_DFA]

glacier1701 wrote...

Just_mike wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Or it might be Sovereign because I was looking at that picture the wrong way. Now I'm really unsure on what to do with the data. In any case, here's a more zoomed in pic from the wiki:

so wtf am I looking at here?

 This is a pic from Kasumi's DLC when we get to see inside the grey box. There is discussion on whether or not this is a reaper since some of the info inside the box could mean war. I am in a minority in believing that this is not a reaper (there is SOME resemblance I admit but not enough and certainly not from the claim being because of markings).

 Just had an additional thought here - this is from PAID DLC. As such that means ANY info from it cannot be assumed to be in the next game OR important enough to mean much. Remember that when ME3 starts the assumption has to be that the player has NOT obtained ANY of the DLC issued between ME2 and ME3. The ONLY way this could be important would be if somewhere in ME3 this was given to us in some manner. In other words perhaps it is a reaper but its throwaway material because its NOT in the original ME2 game.

1. It's a Reaper. They don't look all the same. Harbinger, for instance, has some distinctions from Sovereign. Not to mention the Human Reaper. Also Leviathan of Dis is most probably a Reaper of a non-space-squid race origin. Salarians may have misinterpreted their readings to a degree.

2. Being included in a paid DLC does not necessarily mean it's rubbish. It's like saying ME2 is paid stuff, so its all rubbish, because ME3 newbies won't have a clue. Those with no "Kasumi" flags in their ME3 import files will get default flags, just like newbies get the default Shepard with Udina for Councilman. And Casey Hudson already confirmed they will be bridging the story between ME2 proper and ME3 by the means of DLC.

[Al-the-Catman]

Another possiblity, rather a modified version of a preexisting 1, is that the Alliance or Cerberus is already making/attempting to make its own reaper or mini reaper rather than rebuilding Sovereign; the new ME book, Retribution, focuses on TIM putting Reaper tech into a human that propably isn't "huskifing" so who knows what the info really is:huh:  

On a similar note, how much has each of the major council races learned from reverse engineering reaper tech from Sovereign's remains? Turians--thanix cannon ; Cerberus--tech on Normandy SR-2/EDI & upcoming book; others & individaul companies/crooks---??? 

Off topic: Klencory--lost crypts of beings of light; will they ever make an appearance, even tech wise for reverse enginnering to counter reapers/reaper tech (not that off topic since studying of reapers leads to new [actually ancient] tech)

[Kaiser Shepard]

Yes, some sort of replica. Forgot to mention that one this time, did it before... stupid me.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 22 mai 2010 - 04:15 .

[xI extremist Ix]

I think it is the "Prothean Data Cache" on Mars. How could a new military organization (Systems Alliance) fight off a military that had been there for centuries (Turians)?

[Al-the-Catman]

xI extremist Ix wrote...

I think it is the "Prothean Data Cache" on Mars. How could a new military organization (Systems Alliance) fight off a military that had been there for centuries (Turians)?

Almost all "future/space tech" is based on reverse enginnered reaper tech, so other than design specifications, there tech might not have been too much different than human starship tech; in ME universe, humans adapt faster than most other races to new circumstances/environments.  Medi-gel was invented by a human company, Sitra Foundation, no other species invented this galatic life saver did they?  After discovering, "We are not alone" in the universe, humanity united somewhat as a whole, so human ingenuity sky-rocketed after reverse engineering Prothean tech (as everything leads back to reaper tech though).

[Kaiser Shepard]

There´s a difference between Prothean-level Reaper tech and normal Reaper tech. The difference, from a Reaper perspective, could be described as "We taught them everything they knew, not everything we knew."



Sovereign itself is a testimony to this.



I see where extremist is going with this, but we kind of know for sure that the early humans were studied by the Protheans.

[Al-the-Catman]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

There´s a difference between Prothean-level Reaper tech and normal Reaper tech. The difference, from a Reaper perspective, could be described as "We taught them everything they knew, not everything we knew."

Sovereign itself is a testimony to this.

I see where extremist is going with this, but we kind of know for sure that the early humans were studied by the Protheans.

True, further proof is the Prothean orb flashback (via text) in ME1 after getting the trinket from the Consort; now what secrets do the little orb in ME2 (1 you keep in your room) contain...all it does is sit there & jiggle!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Yup, that orb (on Eletania I believe, with the pyjaks) was what I was referring to with "we kind of know for sure". Still, it´s hard not to appreciate clever random wild guessing like that.

Also, help me out with figuring out the different perspectives and distances in those pics above: am I right to assume that if the Reaper on Keiji´s pic was the derelict Reaper, it should've had a hole just about where the two squares of light are?

Edit: Oh wait, the round could've just gone through diagonally instead of just straight through it. Nevermind my though then. Let's go with it being Cerberus' derelict Reaper then, if only for the fact that dealing with the problem this way is pretty much how TIM rolls all the time.

Also, there's nothing wrong with things that just jiggle, just saying.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 22 mai 2010 - 05:29 .