26 réponses à ce sujet

[Charsen]

A friend of mine received the following TOS Warning.



Here is the image it references.

I want to know specifically why this image is inappropriate for this forum.

[Snoteye]

EA isn't going to answer that here, BioWare doesn't know. Somebody reported it, that's all that matters.

[Charsen]

There is no recourse here then for a bigot moderator.

[Creature 1]

Snoteye wrote...

EA isn't going to answer that here, BioWare doesn't know. Somebody reported it, that's all that matters.

So they can't find their bottom with both hands? 

"Someone reported it" is not all that matters.  I could click abuse on anything I like, but the mods have to screen the reports.  I think we'd like to know if we're going to get reprimanded or banned for posting pics like this: 



Erratic and irrational moderation is a concern in any forum.  If Bioware can't keep their mods in line, they need to yank mod privileges from the loose cannons. 

[Charsen]

Agreed Creature.



Bioware has the ability to look into the issue when we, their fans, cannot.

[Snoteye]

That report function is a direct line to EA. BioWare doesn't figure into it at all, let alone randomly appointed forum moderators. This is actually explained in their... ToS or FAQ or whereever, I don't remember anymore. That "someone reported it" is all that matters because if a BioWare representative or moderator had found it offensive (enough) it would simply have been edited out.

[Charsen]

If Bioware allows EA to patrol their website, then Bioware has to answer for it. Bottom line, it's their site and they have more authority to find out the answer than you or me.

[Arlana Tabris]

EA is also the owner of this site, as BioWare is part of EA.

Modifié par Arlana Tabris, 15 mai 2010 - 07:25 .

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, so if I don't like someone, all I have to do is start complaining about their posts? It doesn't seem like a very good system.

[UpiH]

All Dead wrote...

There you libruls go, makin' trouble ag'in.

Care to... elaborate?

[Snoteye]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, so if I don't like someone, all I have to do is start complaining about their posts? It doesn't seem like a very good system.

Well... this is the first evidence I've seen of it working.

[sami jo]

Bioware is the one who replies to reports, and a real person does look at the post(s) that have been reported. I have received a reply from a real person in the past when I had to report a post. Given that far more explicit images have been posted, I suspect the warning was because the image is from a TV show and might be construed as infringing on the copyright. Technically, it is just shy of impossible to interact on these forums without doing something that could be construed as breaking the TOS, so if someone wants to make an issue, they can. In general, the mods seem to be fairly reasonable. There really isn't much recourse if they aren't, though; and it is pretty crummy to not explain what the issue was specifically.

[UpiH]

sami jo wrote...

... I suspect the warning was because the image is from a TV show and might be construed as infringing on the copyright. 

But clearly, if that was the case, the alleged violation would have read "Copyright infringement" or somesuch.

[IngoLoema]

UpiH wrote...

sami jo wrote...

... I suspect the warning was because the image is from a TV show and might be construed as infringing on the copyright. 

But clearly, if that was the case, the alleged violation would have read "Copyright infringement" or somesuch.

Exactly what I thought...

[sami jo]

UpiH wrote...

sami jo wrote...

... I suspect the warning was because the image is from a TV show and might be construed as infringing on the copyright. 

But clearly, if that was the case, the alleged violation would have read "Copyright infringement" or somesuch.

Good point, though the description was hardly...descriptive.  Objecting to it on any other grounds just makes absolutely no sense, and there isn't a line in the TOS about what images are appropriate.  There is specific language protecting people from attacks regarding their sexual orientation, so if the fact that it was a M/M image was the issue, they are violating their own policy; and two fully clothed people are hardly sexually explicit. 

I'm trying to find rational explanations for something that seems pretty random.  If it's not a copyright issue, I suspect a large number of us will be getting similar letters; and it would be a hint that the selection of Card to write the comic was not accidental--which would quickly remove me from BWs list of customers.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Snoteye wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, so if I don't like someone, all I have to do is start complaining about their posts? It doesn't seem like a very good system.

Well... this is the first evidence I've seen of it working.

I've seen it happen before

[UpiH]

The ToS pretty much covers everything http://tos.ea.com/le...ERMS/US/en/PC/



Methinks they shoulda applied this line to a completely different person/group:



"- Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff. "

[sami jo]

UpiH wrote...

The ToS pretty much covers everything http://tos.ea.com/le...ERMS/US/en/PC/

Methinks they shoulda applied this line to a completely different person/group:

"- Improperly use in-game support or complaint buttons or make false reports to EA staff. "

Quite true.  

Of all the possible pics to get their knickers in a twist about, though.  Seriously?!?!  There are a zillion images that are m/m and far more explicit.  I've posted a couple.  That's why I wondered about the copyright thing, but again, there are dozens of such images from others all over the place.

The long way of saying, you are probably right and someone was having a personal snark fit.

[Stanley Woo]

I read the EA TOS document and came across a few things which might help explain:

Under section 3: Content:

EA reserves the right to remove Content that is objectionable to us for any reason. The decision to remove Content is in EA's sole and final discretion.

Under Section 5: Contributing Third Party Content to EA Services

You may not upload or post any Content on EA Services that is protected by copyright, trademark or other intellectual property rights unless (i) you are the owner of all of those rights; or (ii) you have the prior written consent of the owner(s) of those rights to make such use of that Content. EA may, without prior notice to you and in its sole judgment, remove Content that may infringe the intellectual property rights of a third party. If you are a repeat infringer of EA's or a third party's intellectual property rights, EA may terminate your Account without notice to you.

Please keep in mind that reports generated using the REPORT POST button take a long, winding route to get to us, if it gets to us at all. Along the way it makes stops with at least one EA Community employee. If you wish something resolved more quickly, it would be better to send a message to one or more of the active moderators here.



Also keep in mind that BioWare is a part of EA, so their rules and decisions kinda trump ours, not the other way around, so be diligent about reporting shenanigans on the forums, but please use the REPORT POST button judiciously. I've noticed people using it far too easily, when simply ignoring a person or a post or mentioning a problem to one of our Moderators would have worked just as well.



This in no way, however, excuses people from doing their best to follow the rules and showing common courtesy and respect in the forums. Be excellent to each other, that's what I always say.

[Tellervo]

Thank you for the attempt at an explanation, even if it just ends up being "I'm really not sure, here's what it could be." It's reassuring to know that you guys are in fact paying attention to what goes on in the forums.

[Creature 1]

Stanley Woo wrote...
This in no way, however, excuses people from doing their best to follow the rules and showing common courtesy and respect in the forums. Be excellent to each other, that's what I always say.

This is one of the things that makes this particular report filing so strange.  There was no controversy going on in the thread, no arguments, no disrespect.  From what I can figure, someone wholly uninvolved with the thread ran across the picture, got their knickers in a twist because it was m/m affection depicted, and reported it.  Certainly the person initially reporting it could not have been objecting to supposed copyright violation, of all things.  I think most people consider a fan posting a picture of a still from a TV show fair use. 

So the "offensive content" it contained was m/m affection, and the moderator who got the report apparently agreed that this was offensive.  This is just ridiculous considering Dragon Age developers intend DA to be a gay-friendly game, and there is in-game content way more suggestive than the kiss in that picture.  The Dragon Age community as a whole doesn't find this type of content offensive.   Now do we have to worry about moderators from outside the community following a contradictory standard and cracking down on us for posting pics like the Warden/Zevran kiss I included above?  

[sami jo]

Creature 1 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...
This in no way, however, excuses people from doing their best to follow the rules and showing common courtesy and respect in the forums. Be excellent to each other, that's what I always say.

This is one of the things that makes this particular report filing so strange.  There was no controversy going on in the thread, no arguments, no disrespect.  From what I can figure, someone wholly uninvolved with the thread ran across the picture, got their knickers in a twist because it was m/m affection depicted, and reported it.  Certainly the person initially reporting it could not have been objecting to supposed copyright violation, of all things.  I think most people consider a fan posting a picture of a still from a TV show fair use. 

So the "offensive content" it contained was m/m affection, and the moderator who got the report apparently agreed that this was offensive.  This is just ridiculous considering Dragon Age developers intend DA to be a gay-friendly game, and there is in-game content way more suggestive than the kiss in that picture.  The Dragon Age community as a whole doesn't find this type of content offensive.   Now do we have to worry about moderators from outside the community following a contradictory standard and cracking down on us for posting pics like the Warden/Zevran kiss I included above?  

Based on what Woo said above, yes.  If some random person stumbles into the thread and gets their knickers in a twist, or decides s/he doesn't like you for some reason, s/he can push the report button and if the random EA employee doesn't like what you posted, you could get your hand slapped.

A sticky post in all the forums with the less extreme reporting options, or a pop-up when it is clicked giving the option to email a mod instead of filing a formal report would probably reduce the misuse of the "report" button.

[Charsen]

Thanks for replying Stanley. i really do appreciate you looking into this and i understand this is frustrating for you because EA basically has control here.



However, it's obvious that it is not a trademark issue... No one reports for trademark issues, and the problem would not have said inappropriate image as the reason, it would have said copyright problems. And 99% of the images on this site would have to be reported too in that case.



it's putting the benefit of the doubt to hope the cause was copyright, but... i've been around the block enough to know better. it's not like this sort of thing is uncommon.



of course EA can remove anything for any reason, but... the reason is pretty clear, and if this reason targeted other groups, i have to wonder...



in any case, my friend was not banned or anything, but i don't know if this sticks to him so later on he gets "3 warnings and is banned" or something... that would be unfortunate.



i doubt any amount of stickies would prevent misuse of a passive-aggressive button so clearly labelled on each post for use. in most forums, reports go directly to moderators, not some group of unknown, unassociated figures that have ultimate authority and no accountability.



However i am glad others in this thread are just as perturbed by the issue. Overall BSN has been a decent forum with a lot of good folks here, and that's why i spoke up for my friend (since he didn't think it was worth the trouble).. though sadly he has almost left the forum anyway.



Anyway, thanks for the reply Stanley.