291 réponses à ce sujet

[ResidentNoob]

Nivenus wrote...

Welcome to the group/thread! I hope you enjoy it here.

I also ended up using Garrus very frequently, though usually I try not to play favorites in my squad selection (though I will admit I used Tali and Legion together as a combo several times near the end of the game) as I feel like I've missed out when I don't use every party member.

But if I were to pick favorites, Garrus would definitely be at the top.

I actually feel the same way about missing out dialogue, actually. I take Garrus everywhere on my 'canon' playthrough, at least. So as to not miss out on any dialogue, I take a certain person everywhere I go on each of my Shepards.

[Nozybidaj]

Ecael wrote...

Turn it into Pokémon instead!

That's actually not a bad way to describe ME2.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

If all squadmates return again. I might just replay ME2 again to make sure Jacob bites the dust just like Thane and Jack.

[Platypus92]

I'm Commander Shepard and this is my favorite thread on the forums.

[Andaius20]

Hey I'm in for them all to return too! Zaeed and Kasumi too!

[Nivenus]

We've hit over 100 members, crew! Or nanesh members, if you prefer. We're glad to have you all aboard for the ride. Let's show BioWare the support their cast has.

Moving on, it looks like it's about time to broach a new topic. Based on previous discussions about playing "favorites" in Mass Effect and the fact that you can only bring two squadmates with you at any one time who is, in your mind, with Shepard, is the power trio of your Mass Effect games? Feel free to use the structure found over at tvtropes or not, if you want to get more detailed.

As others who have run into me probably know I like to imagine Garrus and Tali as forming a triumvirate with Shepard. Out of all the characters in the Mass Effect series it is these three who have known each other the longest. But that's not the only reason I like to think of them as a power trio.

For one thing, both Garrus and Tali are romanceable, but unlike most (heterosexual) romanceable characters their relationship with a Shepard of the same sex is not particularly weaker. To a male Shepard, Garrus is still a reliable wingman and bro who strikes me as the type to always be there to cover Shepard's back - and vice versa. This seems particularly strong in ME2, though elements of this bond exist to an extent in ME1, built up over the course of the game. The same goes for Tali and I frequently hear female gamers describe Tali as their Shepard's "sister," though usually in the context of an older/younger sister duo (whereas Garrus is usuall just thought of a bro, seniority completely absent).

Even going beyond that, Garrus and Tali seem to get along pretty well whenever they talk with one another, so I can see them being friends even if Shepard wasn't a part of the equation. They're also (as far as I know) the only two characters to erupt into banter spontaneously in ME2 (mostly as a nod to the elevator convos in ME1, of course).

The only problem I can forsee in the trio is that it's not particularly balanced, combat-wise (although much moreso in ME1 than in ME2, where the biotic/tech/combat thing got toned down). Garrus is a tech/combat mix and Tali is a full on tech, with a spattering of combat for her shotgun skills. In ME1, this leads to a fairly unbalanced team, unless your Shepard's a vanguard. In ME2, the team's a little more balanced though seeing as how you can use Garrus as a long-range sniper and then send Tali up front with the shotgun and her drone as a distraction.

If I were to organize Shepard, Garrus, and Tali into a power trio, I'd do it as such:

Shepard: Obviously, this depends on how you play them, but since Shepard's usually the one who mediates between conflicts in characters and if you don't play to either paragon or renegade extremes I think it's fair to say that Shepard would be the Kirk, balancing between emotion and reason. Shepard's also the leader, of course, and the Kirk is the default role for the leader in any Power Trio.

The Kirk also doubles as the Ego in Freudian psychology.

Garrus: A bit tough here as Garrus can be coldly ruthless under particular circumstances. For the most part though, I think Garrus, despite perhaps initial appearance and particularly in light of his behavior in ME2, is just barely the McCoy. The McCoy is, like Garrus, emotional and humanistic. Although Garrus can be ruthless he is so less because of a hatred of others or because he determines it's the cold reality of what must be done and more because he cares too damn much (note, that's not meant as a condemnation). Of all his flaws, perhaps Garrus' most substantial is his inability to let go, though this goes coupled with his greatest strength, which is that he's an incredibely selfless person who's willing to go as far as it is necessary to do what he thinks is right.

The McCoy also doubles as the Id.

Tali: Like Garrus, Tali's a little bit hard to nail down, because (like any well-written character) he's got a few qualities that fit nicely into a category and a few that don't. In the end, I do think Tali would qualify as the Spock, though, though in a very mild case. I don't do this just to fill out the Power Trio, though, Tali genuinely has some of the qualities that define the Spock. For one thing, while Tali has strong emotions, she's willing to put them aside (unlike Garrus) when she feels they get in the way of things which, it seems, is quite often. Somewhat introverted, highly intelligent, and more inclined towards harmonious paragon-dom than the confrontational ways of renegade characters, Tali fits the Spock archetype, though not perfectly. And, like some examples of the Spock, she can be quite snarky.

The Spock also doubles as the Superego.

I'd be interested to hear what other people's opinions are.

Modifié par Nivenus, 17 mai 2010 - 01:51 .

[Nivenus]

Group rules posted. Please try and follow them within this thread as well, though mukora and I (along with Collider and pyromaniac) do not have the power to enforce them here as we do in the group.

[cachx]

Power trios, if it's just for sentimental reasons the Shep+Tali+Garrus is my top pick (even when Garrus AI is suicidal, and I always felt that Tali's cooldowns are too high).

Other combos I like are Shep+Miranda+Samara (for detonating biotic effects) and Shep+Grunt+Legion (after I buy both special weapons, this team rocks).



I'm not going to go to tvtropes because I'll be trapped all night there...

[drunken pyromaniac]

Power trios, hmmm. Depends on the Shepard I'm using really. For my main Shep, Jack and Thane. They both compliment my sentinel perfectly. They can do their own pull/throw or warp combos and Jack's shockwave and warp ammo are very useful. Thane is simply a beast, weapon damage wise. He can take down anybody. I could get into the character analysis as well but I'm working on RL stuff right now.



For my loyal Shepard, Ash/Garrus, I want my old favorite squad back in ME3. Ashley was a tank and Garrus was great for supporting fire and powers.

[AntiChri5]

jajaja!

[Nivenus]

cachx wrote...

I'm not going to go to tvtropes because I'll be trapped all night there...

I know. But being the Dark Lord of the Thread, I had to try.

[drunken pyromaniac]

I've wasted sooooooo much time at that site. It's really quite disturbing.

[HBC Dresden]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Also, I'm going to have to AdBlock this because you used the word support in the title.

Too cool for school, LOL.

or too school for cool

[Ecael]

Nozybidaj wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Turn it into Pokémon instead!

That's actually not a bad way to describe ME2.

We're describing Mass Effect 2 as the best-selling RPG of all time now?

:happy:

[PARAGON87]

I hope everyone returns, though there are a couple questions to be answered:

1. Mordin:  He's around 35 years old, in salarian years he's pretty old.  If ME3 is to occur a couple of years down the line, it's a question of which he would be physically able to follow us around.  We don't know how salarians get when they get that old, if they're moble, etc.  Or even if he lives to see the events of ME3.

2. Thane:  His Kepral's Syndrome.  We don't know how long he has left, and whether he can be cured.  It was assumed he has a year or two left max during ME2. There was rumors awhile back about a possible Thane DLC where we actually cure it, but this was dismissed after it was clarified that they were talking about Kasumi (of how FemSheps were the be happy, ie. the dress in Kasumi's mission).  So it's really up in the air whether or not he'll return.

3. Samara:  Herself as a Justicar.  She swore an oath to Shepherd that she would follow him until his task is done.  Now it is, and she can leave to fight injustices everywhere.  It is very possible she will stay if Shepherd was a Paragon, and it is even possible that she will be out to kill Shepherd if he was a Renegade.  Though I would see the task of destroying the Reapers as a particuarly just act, so she may stay on.  Plus, she's almost 1000 years old, who knows how many years she's got left?

3b. Morinth.  She might just vanish one day and keep up her succubus ways on other unsuspecting prey.  Or stay... and keep trying to prey on Shepherd or the Normandy crew.

4. Zaeed and Kasumi.  Their contracts are up.  Their duties with Cerberus are done; they can go off on their merry way if they wanted.  If their loyality is unyielding, they would stay on, but they are DLC don't forget, and may not even transition to ME3 (hopefully that is proven false).

EDIT: 5. Legion.  He's found Commander Shepherd, accomplishing his mission.  Though he can report back to the geth, it reality, he is geth, and their hive-mind intelligence can be with him always.  It's unknown whether he would leave or not.  (I would think he would stay, because he's obsessed with Shepherd).

Other than that, everyone else seems poised for a comeback:  (Assuming their all loyal)

I can see Jacob and Miranda on board, because since they're done with Cerberus, they might not have anything else to do than to follow Shepherd.  If Shepherd saved the Collector base, then they have more reason to stay with Shepherd because he's in their league now.

I would guess Tali would be on board, if she was branded an exile; if she was not she might have some duties with the Migrant Fleet, but her loyalty would seem like she would stay with Shepherd. 

Garrus has nothing else to do; heck, his enemies think he's dead.  Unless he goes back with C-sec or applies to be a Spectre.

Grunt thinks of Shepherd as his battlemaster, so he's in.

Jack also seems like she has nothing left to do, too.

Well, that's my thoughts.

Modifié par PARAGON87, 17 mai 2010 - 02:52 .

[Marah_Fayne]

New to the thread.  My initial thoughts.

While it would be cool to have everybody back, it just doesn't seem possible.  You would have to write/script/record VA for every character PLUS make up for the fact that any/all of them may be dead in the imported ME2 savegame.

Now,  that may not be a big deal for 2-3 characters - but 12?  Maybe you can ignore a few deaths, but at some point there would be too many characters gone and they would have to be replaced with new ones to make up for the missing crew. THAT implies adding 3-5 new characters - so somebody who saved everybody in ME2 now has 15-17 possible crewmates?  That's just not going to happen.

Given that ME2 was very different from ME1, I assume that ME3 will be very different from ME2, which means new crew/squadmates, a couple returning characters and cameos for the remainder (if they survived your ME2 playthrough).

Maybe I'm wrong - after all, they let ANYBODY die in ME2 and they have to deal with that somehow (unless NOBODY comes back - and they won't do that), but I would be suprised if more than a few squadmates are available (Garrus, Tali, maybe Miranda, 1-2 more), along with Kaiden/Ash and Liara and some completely new characters.

In the end, you want a NEW game - not a follow-on with all the same people.

[Cerrydd]

Marah_Fayne wrote...

In the end, you want a NEW game - not a follow-on with all the same people.

I disagree. I didn't spend 2 games recruiting people and even making them loyal in the second game to wave them goodbye in ME3 and start all over again. You recruited the best of the best, why finish the game with runner ups? I don't want new people if I made everyone survive.

[julian08]

Nivenus wrote...

*snip*

If I were to organize Shepard, Garrus, and Tali into a power trio, I'd do it as such:

Shepard:  the Kirk

Garrus:  the McCoy

Tali: the Spock

Shepard: All right crew, this is going to be a dangerous mission. The landing party will consist of myself, Garrus, Tali and operative Ricky.
Ricky:  Aww crap. . .

[Ecael]

Marah_Fayne wrote...

New to the thread.  My initial thoughts.

While it would be cool to have everybody back, it just doesn't seem possible.  You would have to write/script/record VA for every character PLUS make up for the fact that any/all of them may be dead in the imported ME2 savegame.

It's true that they're going to have a difficult time, but they brought it on themselves.

17 cameos would still require all 17 voice actors to return, as would 17 squadmates.

Thus, the argument is not whether they can be cameo'd or not, but whether they can be completely written out of the story with an e-mail to Shepard's Private Terminal or can be killed off really early in the game.

At the same time, I'm sure BioWare wants to introduce at least a few new characters so the dialogue doesn't get stale with the older ones. We couldn't spend another game asking Garrus when he's done with his calibrations or listening to Tali's lecture on Quarian immune systems.

[Nivenus]

[quote]Ecael wrote...

[quote]Nozybidaj wrote...

[quote]Ecael wrote...

Turn it into Pokémon instead!
[/quote]

That's actually not a bad way to describe ME2. [/quote]
We're describing Mass Effect 2 as the best-selling RPG of all time now?

:happy:
[/quote]

Touche, Ecael. You know how to turn an insult around, don't you?

[quote]PARAGON87 wrote...

I hope everyone returns, though there are a couple questions to be answered:

1.
Mordin:  He's around 35 years old, in salarian years he's pretty old. 
If ME3 is to occur a couple of years down the line, it's a question of
which he would be physically able to follow us around.  We don't know
how salarians get when they get that old, if they're moble, etc.  Or
even if he lives to see the events of ME3.

2. Thane:  His
Kepral's Syndrome.  We don't know how long he has left, and whether he
can be cured.  It was assumed he has a year or two left max during ME2.
There was rumors awhile back about a possible Thane DLC where we
actually cure it, but this was dismissed after it was clarified that
they were talking about Kasumi (of how FemSheps were the be happy, ie.
the dress in Kasumi's mission).  So it's really up in the air whether
or not he'll return.[/quote]

I think I'm far from alone in assuming that ME3 will take place less than a year after ME2. So I think it's fair to guess they'll both still be alive. I can see Mordin, however, taking a Joker-like position in ME3 though. In some ways, it would fit him more than dragging him along as a squadmate. Sure, he can fight, but it's not his specialty (not big on holding the line, as we know) and he's getting a bit long in the tooth to be out doing this sort of thing.

Still, would be happy to see him on the team in ME3.

[quote]PARAGON87 wrote...

3. Samara:  Herself as a Justicar.  She
swore an oath to Shepherd that she would follow him until his task is
done.  Now it is, and she can leave to fight injustices everywhere.  It
is very possible she will stay if Shepherd was a Paragon, and it is
even possible that she will be out to kill Shepherd if he was a
Renegade.  Though I would see the task of destroying the Reapers as a
particuarly just act, so she may stay on.  Plus, she's almost 1000
years old, who knows how many years she's got left?

3b.
Morinth.  She might just vanish one day and keep up her succubus ways
on other unsuspecting prey.  Or stay... and keep trying to prey on
Shepherd or the Normandy crew. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie][/quote]

Both Samara and Morinth do seem to have little reason to stick around, Samara in particular. However, Samara might consider her oath to Shepard to be yet unfulfilled while a Shepard that recruited Morinth may not be keen to let the Ardat-Yakshi out of his/her sight. Plus, they're both pseudo-love interests (sure, one kills you and the other's sworn to celibacy, but hey) so BioWare may keep them around for that reason.

[quote]PARAGON87 wrote...

4.
Zaeed and Kasumi.  Their contracts are up.  Their duties with Cerberus
are done; they can go off on their merry way if they wanted.  If their
loyality is unyielding, they would stay on, but they are DLC don't
forget, and may not even transition to ME3 (hopefully that is proven
false).[/quote]

It is hard for me to see a major role for either since they're completely, 100% optional characters and both DLC. But they both (Kasumi in particular) seem to be fairly popular, so we'll see.

[quote]PARAGON87 wrote...

EDIT: 5. Legion.  He's found Commander Shepherd,
accomplishing his mission.  Though he can report back to the geth, it
reality, he is geth, and their hive-mind intelligence can be with him
always.  It's unknown whether he would leave or not.  (I would think he
would stay, because he's obsessed with Shepherd).[/quote]

I can see Legion leaving under certain circumstances, but I don't anticipate it. If it does leave, I anticipate it will have a very large role to play in the story, regardless. Of course, it's possible to sell Legion to Cerberus or get it killed during the suicide mission, so I could be completely wrong. But Legion shouts "Chekhov's gunman" all over to me.

Largely agree with the rest, as well.

[quote]Marah_Fayne wrote...

New to the thread.  My initial thoughts.

While
it would be cool to have everybody back, it just doesn't seem possible.
 You would have to write/script/record VA for every character PLUS make
up for the fact that any/all of them may be dead in the imported ME2
savegame.

Now,  that may not be a big deal for 2-3 characters
- but 12?  Maybe you can ignore a few deaths, but at some point there
would be too many characters gone and they would have to be replaced
with new ones to make up for the missing crew. THAT implies adding 3-5
new characters - so somebody who saved everybody in ME2 now has 15-17
possible crewmates?  That's just not going to happen.[/quote]

In my mind, it sounds more impractical to hire all 17 VAs for cameos plus somewhere around ten new VAs for a new party. I have no experience in VA work however so I could be completely off the mark here, but I think that it's simpler and easier to just carry over the characters, even if it means having to work out different scenarios and whatnot. For one thing, you're still stuck with wrapping up the previous characters' arcs even if you don't include them as squadmates and that's going to be hard if they're competing for space with new party members.

You've also got to factor in that ME2, in of itself, already has 11 characters (without DLC). Adding three more shouldn't be that hard (assuming Kasumi and Zaeed don't make it in).

I anticipate maybe one or two new characters. But that's all.

[quote]Cerrydd wrote...

[quote]Marah_Fayne wrote...

In the end, you want a NEW game - not a follow-on with all the same people.[/quote]

I
disagree. I didn't spend 2 games recruiting people and even making them
loyal in the second game to wave them goodbye in ME3 and start all over
again. You recruited the best of the best, why finish the game with
runner ups? I don't want new people if I made everyone survive.
[/quote]

Going to agree here. In ME1, the characters (with the exception of Liara, perhaps) were not story critical. Sure, they all played a part here and there, but the focus of the game was very much not on them. In ME2, this is anything but the case. The entire game focuses on recruitment and gathering a team. Because of this, I don't think BioWare's going to just drop the team.

[quote]julian08 wrote...

[quote]Nivenus wrote...

*snip*

If I were to organize Shepard, Garrus, and Tali into a power trio, I'd do it as such:

Shepard:  the Kirk

Garrus:  the McCoy

Tali: the Spock

[/quote]

Shepard: All
right crew, this is going to be a dangerous mission. The landing party
will consist of myself, Garrus, Tali and operative Ricky.
Ricky:  Aww crap. . .

[/quote]

Heh. I figured somebody might make a comment like that.

[cachx]

I don't think the question is IF they return, the question is what role will they have when they return. That also depends on a few factors that we don't know yet. Like how big is the time-skip between ME2 and ME3.

If it's a large amount of time a few chars may be out of active squadmate duty: Mordin (too old), Thane (too sick/dead), Jack (I have read somewhere that her implants are 'degenerating' her, dunno if thats true).

Other chars are hinted to have other roles to fullfill, like Tali (Admiralty board spot) or Legion (back to the geth). Tali is a LI, so we don't know how they will handle that (or LI's in general).

Jacob,Miranda, Grunt and Garrus have no reason to leave that I can think of (the cerberus operatives seem to stick with you no matter the decision at the end, plus Miranda is so hard to kill on the Suicide Mission that
bioware seems to want her there).

If Samara's code does not compel her to fight the reapers then she's an idiot and deserves to go . Morinth..., it depends on how interested she is in Shep, but probably she will be compelled to go out and start killing again.

Kasumi & Zaeed, hard to tell. DLC from ME1 got ported to ME2 so I don't see why they could not be there (unless they plan to make us purchase them again). Zaeed's contract is over, so he's likely to go. Kasumi seems more sympathetic towards the group, and the secrets of the greybox may come into play at some point.

Another question is wheter they'll give everyone as much rich dialogue has they have now, seems like a lot of work to make speech for all those characters and account for every possible combination of variables.(but then again, Bioware is an expert to cut corners where they can).

Modifié par cachx, 17 mai 2010 - 07:04 .

[Urazz]

Ecael wrote...

Marah_Fayne wrote...

New to the thread.  My initial thoughts.

While it would be cool to have everybody back, it just doesn't seem possible.  You would have to write/script/record VA for every character PLUS make up for the fact that any/all of them may be dead in the imported ME2 savegame.

It's true that they're going to have a difficult time, but they brought it on themselves.

17 cameos would still require all 17 voice actors to return, as would 17 squadmates.

Thus, the argument is not whether they can be cameo'd or not, but whether they can be completely written out of the story with an e-mail to Shepard's Private Terminal or can be killed off really early in the game.

At the same time, I'm sure BioWare wants to introduce at least a few new characters so the dialogue doesn't get stale with the older ones. We couldn't spend another game asking Garrus when he's done with his calibrations or listening to Tali's lecture on Quarian immune systems.

Every other line in ME3 from Garrus will involve calibrating something and Tali will talk about quarian immune systems.

Ashley will spout Tenneson every other line as well and Jacob will walk around shirtless even in the vaccum of space and talk about spilling drinks on the Citadel and getting loud.

Miranda will pretty much bend over whenever possible to show off her butt and Grunt will say nothing but "I am Krogan" before charging into something whether it'll be Shepard going into a casual conversation with Grunt or fighting the enemy.

Mordin will be on 'CSI:Normandy' trying to find out who got the scale itch aboard the Normandy whenever he's not giving Shepard and others advice about sex.

Thane will constantly do flashback from any time (even 5 minutes ago) and Jack will have found religion and become a nun while still doing mass murder.

Samara will wear an even more trampier costume while still talkng about the 'Code of the Justicar.'

Liara will find the Shadow Broker and find out that he is her 'father' in a scene eerily like Star Wars Episode V.

And I don't have anything on Kaidan because I find him to be pretty much bland much like Jacob (minus being black and ripped). 

Modifié par Urazz, 17 mai 2010 - 07:08 .

[Nivenus]

The DLC from ME1 was only imported as brief references, so I hardly think that's an example of a guarantee that Kasumi and Zaeed will be included. Kasumi's gray box though does seem to be a big giant plot hook.

[bobito64]

I'm afraid I can't support this idea. I thought the party got a little too big in ME2 already, particularly if you added Zaeed and Kasumi. And quite frankly, I'd much rather have Wrex, Ash and Liara back for ME3 than any of Jacob, Thane, Samara, Grunt, Zaeed, Jack or Kasumi.



My pick for ME3 would be:



Garrus

Tali

Wrex

Mordin

Miranda

Ashley (or Kaiden)

Liara

Legion



That's a squad of balanced options, about the right size and features characters from both games.



But then, that's just my personal taste. Each to their own.