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[sylvanaerie]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

I think there is more evidence to suggest that Cailan is homosexual than Anora is barren.

What evidence is there for that? And even if he were, that wouldn't necessarily stop him from having children. There is just as much evidence that Cailan was the infertile one if not more due to his lack of bastards if Anora was telling the truth about his affairs but what makes you think he's gay? And it's not the bartender rumor people believe, it's the letter Eamon sent in RtO.

I suspect it has more to do with whether you married Anora or not. If you did? she is as fertile as any other mare in the game. If you made a different choice? then maybe it comes out later in some way. As for Cailan being homosexual, he might as well be infertile too based on my toons conversation with Loghain in Vigil's Keep.   But of course the peasant girl gets falsely "blamed" for infertility, nobles have been mega lame like that in history.

I have yet to hear much about Cailan from Anora and I never saw a letter from Eamon in RtO.  Maybe this is because I went through it as a Male Human Noble.... however again, how is it that Eamon knows this? Loghain made a remark in Awakening about needing to knock Anora up. If Loghain thinks his daughter is fertile? I am willing to trust Loghain over some vague letter from Eamon in RtO

Herr Uhl wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

To be fair, even the Dwarven Assembly was acting stupid during the first blight, until Aeducan decided to give them the middle finger and save their sorry asses by ignoring everything they tell him.

But at least he got rewarded with Paragonship.

The key thing is: the Dwarves learned their lesson. And, the dwarves could be forgiven somewhat. They had no idea WTF was going on, where these darkspawn thingies came from, and just how grave the threat was.

But really, I really don't see the surface producing a leader as awesome as Bhelen anytime soon.

Am I the only one who expects Celene to be just as awesome?

This is the first I have heard her name I think... but I will remember it. However I would rather there be certain "options" with Celene than there is with Bhelen... though in my game I eviscerated and decapitated him and while I am happy with that option... I would like something different with an Empress of Orlais.

the letter is found in the chest with Celene's letter and Maric's sword.  The crumpled up letter is the one Eamon sent to Cailan telling him to put aside Anora for infertility issues.  Frankly I don't know or care whether she's fertile or not, that is an issue for another thread and derails this one.  Loghain has no clue whether his daughter is fertile or not or even whether she did the deed with Cailan or not.  The only way he can make any claim beyond hopes of his own are if he was a doctor and examines her himself.

Otherwise the whole issue is conjecture.

Oh and YAY Teagan, he wouldn't do his brother wrong by sleeping with Isolde even if Eamon is a rat bastard.



Come now, this is NOT the face of a rat bastard who would bed his brother's wife.

Modifié par sylvanaerie, 17 mai 2010 - 04:49 .

[Sarah1281]

I thought the crumpled letter was the more personal note from Celene. At work so I can't check.

Yeah, it's the letter saying Celene can't come due to the Blight but that doesn't have to mean 'affair', just 'I'm not happy about the Blight setting my plans for an alliance back.'

I suspect it has more to do with whether you married Anora or not. If you did? she is as fertile as any other mare in the game. If you made a different choice? then maybe it comes out later in some way.

Whether Anora can have kids or not has nothing to do with who she marries. You're just as tainted as Alistair so there is less of a chance but if neither marry her then she simply never marries and thus has no heir.

Loghain made a remark in Awakening about needing to knock Anora up. If Loghain thinks his daughter is fertile? I am willing to trust Loghain over some vague letter from Eamon in RtO

You shouldn't. How would Loghain know any more than Eamon would? There don't appear to be any fertility tests mages can perform and they don't have the technology for a scientific one. Until Anora gets pregnant, we will not know if she is fertile.

Cailan and Anora never have children after five years of marriage. Eamon assumes it's Anora's lack of fertility as Cailan's might mean the end of the Theirin line. Loghain doesn't want to believe that his daughter can't have children as then there are no heirs and after her death Ferelden will have another succession crisis.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mai 2010 - 04:48 .

[Herr Uhl]

sylvanaerie wrote...


Come now, this is NOT the face of a rat bastard who would bed his brother's wife.

Yes it is.

LadyDamodred wrote...

And people say Eamon married way too young. Good lord, Kaitlyn is maybe 18? And Teagan is about 40? Talk about cradle robbing. XD

Yes, yes indeed. 18 tops in Origins, she is still referring to herself as an orphan (and not in the way Ollie does it). If I would have to guess I would say 16.

[Jax Sparrow]

because Anora would know and Anora is far more willing to confide in her father Loghain than she would in anyone who would tell Eamon. As I said, OF COURSE the "peasant girl" gets falsely blamed for infertility, nobles have been doing such things in history for a long time.



As for Teagan bedding Isolde, if he didn't? then he is definitely gay. I always have made it a point to give Kaitlyn and Bella both 5 sovereign each, so I never knew Teagan would do that either. The only problem I have with it is that both Kaitlyn and Bella are obviously in a bad way/place unless you give them 5 sovereign and so Teagan taking coercing them into marriage like that makes him a rat bastard... which, according to sylvanaerie's equation, suggests he did bed Isolde.

[Sarah1281]

because Anora would know and Anora is far more willing to confide in her father Loghain than she would in anyone who would tell Eamon. As I said, OF COURSE the "peasant girl" gets falsely blamed for infertility, nobles have been doing such things in history for a long time.

How would Anora know? Unless she gets pregnant she has no way of knowing without testing that is not available at their technologica level.

As for Teagan bedding Isolde, if he didn't? then he is definitely gay.

So he must be gay if he won't sleep with his brother's wife? I would call that 'not being a horrible person.'

[sylvanaerie]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

because Anora would know and Anora is far more willing to confide in her father Loghain than she would in anyone who would tell Eamon. As I said, OF COURSE the "peasant girl" gets falsely blamed for infertility, nobles have been doing such things in history for a long time.

As for Teagan bedding Isolde, if he didn't? then he is definitely gay. I always have made it a point to give Kaitlyn and Bella both 5 sovereign each, so I never knew Teagan would do that either. The only problem I have with it is that both Kaitlyn and Bella are obviously in a bad way/place unless you give them 5 sovereign and so Teagan taking coercing them into marriage like that makes him a rat bastard... which, according to sylvanaerie's equation, suggests he did bed Isolde.

Ummn considering she is ABSOLUTELY mortified to discuss sex with her father...I HIGHLY doubt that she would discuss something so intimate with her father.  So unless you are suggesting dear old dad got hands on with her (which would be gross) he has no other evidence that Cailan is gay (which is not beyond the bounds of the truth but WAY out there.  Maybe Loghain was speaking from personal experience) or infertile.  My suggestion that Anora probably doesn't like the act is IMO closer to the truth. I think at most Anora felt about Cailan as a friend, not a lover.
Why does the only solution for why a man isn't sleeping with a woman he MUST be gay? Are you homophobic? I think you are a little obsessed with the idea.  And if he does, he's a rat bastard.  If he married Kaitlyn or Bella (I can't seem to get those endings but I know they are out there) then how does that make him a rat bastard?  When he meets them they are women of business, not impoverished peasants so its not like he twirled his mustache and forced them ala some badly written silent film.

[jpdipity]

Teagan is great because he is the only one willing to stand against Loghain's actions publically. There really isn't any evidence that there is anything between Teagan and Isolde at all. He is quite the flirt and speaks his mind openly in several instances during the game despite if it is appropriate or not; so, I think it would be more obvious if there was something going on between them.



As far as Anora being barren, I highly doubt that Fereldan has the medical technology to diagnose fertility problems. Anora, Cailan, Loghain, Eamon and all of Fereldan are simply guessing. Anora is no "peasant" either - she was born a noble. However, yes, women were frequently blamed for the lack of a child in a marriage.

[Jax Sparrow]

Sarah1281 wrote...

because Anora would know and Anora is far more willing to confide in her father Loghain than she would in anyone who would tell Eamon. As I said, OF COURSE the "peasant girl" gets falsely blamed for infertility, nobles have been doing such things in history for a long time.

How would Anora know? Unless she gets pregnant she has no way of knowing without testing that is not available at their technologica level. 

I understand your point and mine is that she arguably has the best idea of whether she is fertile or not than anyone else on the planet Thedas.  I understand your point that she may be 'wrong' but that is irrelevant to who to believe Loghain or Eamon. Sylvanaerie may be right but I believe Anora would talk to her father over anyone else if she thought she was.

Sarah1281 wrote...

As for Teagan bedding Isolde, if he didn't? then he is definitely gay.

So he must be gay if he won't sleep with his brother's wife? I would call that 'not being a horrible person.'

Yes I choose to be homophobic and I choose to show this by saying something completely outlandish and an obviously false correlation. However, why must only horrible people choose to have an affair? They see Eamon as soon to be dead, and Isolde is obviously traumatized by her indirect responsibility in her husband's death. Doesn't a good brother comfort his sister-inlaw?

[Herr Uhl]

jpdipity wrote...

As far as Anora being barren, I highly doubt that Fereldan has the medical technology to diagnose fertility problems. Anora, Cailan, Loghain, Eamon and all of Fereldan are simply guessing. Anora is no "peasant" either - she was born a noble. However, yes, women were frequently blamed for the lack of a child in a marriage.

I don't think it has as much to do with her being female as Cailan being Royal. If Anora would be the royal one, Cailan would be the one that is blamed.

Modifié par Herr Uhl, 17 mai 2010 - 05:25 .

[Jax Sparrow]

jpdipity wrote...  Anora is no "peasant" either - she was born a noble. However, yes, women were frequently blamed for the lack of a child in a marriage.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_Anora
Might want to learn more of Anora's background before saying she is no "peasant's daughter" yes she was born a commoner

[sylvanaerie]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

because Anora would know and Anora is far more willing to confide in her father Loghain than she would in anyone who would tell Eamon. As I said, OF COURSE the "peasant girl" gets falsely blamed for infertility, nobles have been doing such things in history for a long time.

How would Anora know? Unless she gets pregnant she has no way of knowing without testing that is not available at their technologica level. 

I understand your point and mine is that she arguably has the best idea of whether she is fertile or not than anyone else on the planet Thedas.  I understand your point that she may be 'wrong' but that is irrelevant to who to believe Loghain or Eamon. Sylvanaerie may be right but I believe Anora would talk to her father over anyone else if she thought she was.

Sarah1281 wrote...

As for Teagan bedding Isolde, if he didn't? then he is definitely gay.

So he must be gay if he won't sleep with his brother's wife? I would call that 'not being a horrible person.'

Yes I choose to be homophobic and I choose to show this by saying something completely outlandish and an obviously false correlation. However, why must only horrible people choose to have an affair? They see Eamon as soon to be dead, and Isolde is obviously traumatized by her indirect responsibility in her husband's death. Doesn't a good brother comfort his sister-inlaw?

Because it goes against Teagan's honor and because he REALLY seems annoyed with the stupid woman not all "OH gotta have me some of THAT!"  Despite my feelings on the matter of Eamon Teagan loves his brother and wouldn't do him a disservice like dishonoring his brother and his brother's wife (even if she is an idiot).

[sylvanaerie]

Jax Sparrow wrote...

jpdipity wrote...  Anora is no "peasant" either - she was born a noble. However, yes, women were frequently blamed for the lack of a child in a marriage.

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Queen_Anora
Might want to learn more of Anora's background before saying she is no "peasant's daughter" yes she was born a commoner

Her father was a Teryn when she was born which makes her a Lady, hence a Noble till she married Cailan and became Queen.  Her father was a commoner by birth but she is not.

[Sarah1281]

I understand your point and mine is that she arguably has the best idea of whether she is fertile or not than anyone else on the planet Thedas. I understand your point that she may be 'wrong' but that is irrelevant to who to believe Loghain or Eamon. Sylvanaerie may be right but I believe Anora would talk to her father over anyone else if she thought she was.

Why would Anora know better than anyone else? The only indication of fertility is having a child. She has not had a child. Therefore, she does not know that she is fertile. You can't just 'know' that you could have babies if your partner weren't shooting blanks. Even if Cailan were gay and they never had sex, that still wouldn't guarentee Anora could have children.

Yes I choose to be homophobic and I choose to show this by saying something completely outlandish and an obviously false correlation. However, why must only horrible people choose to have an affair? They see Eamon as soon to be dead, and Isolde is obviously traumatized by her indirect responsibility in her husband's death. Doesn't a good brother comfort his sister-inlaw?

Not with his ****, he wouldn't. And they couldn't have Eamon's-dying-comfort-sex anyway as Teagan wasn't in Redcliffe when Eamon fell in and by the time he returned from Denerim where he called Loghain out he couldn't get to the castle because of the undead. After he can get to the castle he's pissed at Isolde for the mess she caused with Jowan and Connor and there's no way they're having sex then. If they were having an affair it would have had to have been before any of this started and then he's just the **** sleeping with his brother's wife.

Edit: And it's not even the thought of him having an affair that's the big problem here (although I don't approve of them in general). It's that she's his brother's wife.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mai 2010 - 05:43 .

[sylvanaerie]

Sarah1281 wrote...

I understand your point and mine is that she arguably has the best idea of whether she is fertile or not than anyone else on the planet Thedas. I understand your point that she may be 'wrong' but that is irrelevant to who to believe Loghain or Eamon. Sylvanaerie may be right but I believe Anora would talk to her father over anyone else if she thought she was.

Why would Anora know better than anyone else? The only indication of fertility is having a child. She has not had a child. Therefore, she does not know that she is fertile. You can't just 'know' that you could have babies if your partner weren't shooting blanks. Even if Cailan were gay and they never had sex, that still wouldn't guarentee Anora could children.

Yes I choose to be homophobic and I choose to show this by saying something completely outlandish and an obviously false correlation. However, why must only horrible people choose to have an affair? They see Eamon as soon to be dead, and Isolde is obviously traumatized by her indirect responsibility in her husband's death. Doesn't a good brother comfort his sister-inlaw?

Not with his ****, he wouldn't. And they couldn't have Eamon's-dying-comfort-sex anyway as Teagan wasn't in Redcliffe when Eamon fell in and by the time he returned from Denerim where he called Loghain out he couldn't get to the castle because of the undead. After he can get to the castle he's pissed at Isolde for the mess she caused with Jowan and Connor and there's no way they're having sex then. If they were having an affair it would have had to have been before any of this started and then he's just the **** sleeping with his brother's wife.

Edit: And it's not even the thought of him having an affair that's the big problem here (although I don't approve of them in general). It's that she's his brother's wife.

This QFT

[Lintanis]

think the only thing Teagan wanted to lay on Isolde is the back of his hand across her face

[Celuwen]

I think he and Isolde did the deed when he was young and as he's grown into the Teagan of the game he's realised what a crappy thing it was to do to Eamon, and also that Isolde is, well Isolde and he feels all dirty inside.



Just to make it worse, I bet Connor is his love child. Mwahahah.

[maxernst]

He's probably an apostate and that's why Connor is a mage.

[sylvanaerie]

nah the magic is on Isolde's side. If you let her live and save Connor she gives you a staff as a reward (I think it was her grandfather or great grandfather's.) since I usually have better I give it back to her telling her to save it for Connor and get a few approval points from some of my companions.

[Sarah1281]

sylvanaerie wrote...

nah the magic is on Isolde's side. If you let her live and save Connor she gives you a staff as a reward (I think it was her grandfather or great grandfather's.) since I usually have better I give it back to her telling her to save it for Connor and get a few approval points from some of my companions.

I've never gotten that. Is it PC only?

[sylvanaerie]

I don't know. When you talk to Isolde prior to deciding what to do, she says she will reward you if you save Connor (and Eamon will give you the staff if you sacc her but there is no option to have him take it back then).

After you save Connor and you are in the scene with Teagan and Isolde in Eamon's room, you can talk with her afterwards and she tells you who the staff belonged to and offers it to you.

[sylvanaerie]

Hanz54321 wrote...

I never was offered any staff either Sylvanaerie / Sarah. And I'm on PC. I'll have to explore my conversation options further on my next playthrough.

You have to tell her during the conversation when she offeres up her life for Jowan's ritual.  Tell her "its not worth the risk" and she offers you a reward for saving Connor. 

and to ease your man-crush on Teagan...reaffirmation of his irritation with that sow of a sister in law...

[Cyberfrog81]

I doubt Teagan is that close to Isolde. He cares for his family, but that is hardly inappropriate.



Teagan is indeed alright, for a noble.