146 réponses à ce sujet

[Throw_this_away]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

I speak for all of us when I say that Bioware and Casey should just stop wasting our time, give me free everything, and release a bug-free version of ME3 next week that has multiplayer, and tons of planet scanning.   The story could be that the Reapers need resources to survive another 50,000 years... so you need to mine everything before they arrive.  EPIC WIN!!!

Yeah, well, obviously Casey Hudson is still a huge fan of planet scanning. He said so in that video interview, we all saw it. Any statement from Hudson hisself that is anything other than "omg we so solly about everything and also LIARA LIARA LIARA" means he still thinks planet scanning is the greatest thing ever. Proof is in the puddin', folks.

Also, I'm going to have to disagree with your suggestion about ME3 there, I'm afraid - you only need resources to upgrade weapons, after all, and nobody likes those stupid pew-pew missions that turned ME2 into, you know, Gears of War with biotics, like we all know it is. ME3 needs to take the gameplay back to its roots like in ME1 where there wasn't any combat. What we really need is more dialogue so that this can be a proper RPG again, so I propose ME3 be called "Mass Effect: Exposition" and consist entirely of dialogue sequences on the Normandy. Ashley, Kaidan and Liara can just stand around in a dimly lit room telling us what's happening, it's not like there's any merit in leaving the ship and actually doing it yourself, exposition is the way of real RPGs.

And while we're talking about proper RPG elements, I think they need to reintroduce the inventory in its original form, maybe add a few layers of complexity like a QTE minigame you have to complete everytime you want to melt something down into Omni-Gel. I think fiddling with inventory screens is fantastic as long as I never actually have to go out and use the gear for anything.

WOW, I 100% agree with EVERYTHIG you have said.  

The inventory... I agree... such awesome immersion.  My only complaint is that you could ONLY carry 150 items at a time.  Serioustly!  This is Sheppard... kills reapers for breakfast... he could carry at least 200!

To add to the immersion shep should strap each piece of equipment to his back when he picks it up.  By the end it would look like "the princess and the pea"... and shep would be the pea... and all the beds would be his gear."  Fitting through doorways might be an issue. 

While we are talking about my FAv ME1 invintory system... lets be sure to tell Casey that we want every item that we find in the ame to be only just slightly better than the last one we found.  We all know that this is how it works in real life!!!  Don't kill immersion Bioware!!!

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 16 mai 2010 - 03:52 .

[spacehamsterZH]

scyphozoa wrote...

oh god, the trolling... my eyes...it
burns...

I'm not trolling, I'm just being sarcastic. I think anyone with half a brain can see that I'm actually trying to make a point.

Modifié par spacehamsterZH, 16 mai 2010 - 03:51 .

[Ecael]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I agree... more game content is a TERRIBLE IDEA!  Letting gamers have the option to buy extra content that has been developed after the original game is a TERRIBLE IDEA!  THey should have just made oodles and oodles of game content and released ME2 2 years from now with all of the DLC content included... and then Released ME3 one week after that. 

My sarcasm detector is going off... and it broke.

Sarcasm Detector

[Ecael]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Not seriously: And let me think like you. Testing ideas through payed content for player feedback? Hmmm, a test player where you should PAY to be a tester? Oh, where do I sign? It's a great idea to pay to be a beta tester! YAY! At least Firewalker was FREE (somehow).

I didn't mean test for glitches - that's what Quality Assurance is for. I meant test for new ideas that may fit into ME3.

It's allowing BioWare to be creative, instead of being stifled by the worry of "What if they don't like this...?"

Modifié par Ecael, 16 mai 2010 - 03:55 .

[Throw_this_away]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Seriously: Did you play games when they weren't "expand" through DLC? Did you have big problems with it? Weren't there great games that time? Didn't they have feedback enough that from reviews, letters and most importantly sales that time? Gaming didn't work that time?

OMGLOLZ were thete games before DLC existed?!?!?

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Not seriously: And let me think like you. Testing ideas through payed content for player feedback? Hmmm, a test player where you should PAY to be a tester? Oh, where do I sign? It's a great idea to pay to be a beta tester! YAY! At least Firewalker was FREE (somehow).

You are so right... DLC that you don't have to buy or play IS a TERRIBLE idea!  Bioware is raping us fans.  Just put it in ME3 first... we need to complain about something.  

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...
Oh, hell yeah! I loved to hate mineral scanning! Mineral scanning! I complained about it so much! I just said everything like this! You're so smart you undestood my post completely! Great Success!

We are a perfect couple?  Should we get married on the Precidium?  I can photoshop the Tali wedding photo and post it just for us! <3:wub:<3

[RyuGuitarFreak]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Obviously games were much better when Pac Man was the pinnacle of technical achievement.

Well, I thought people would have the inteligence to think the 8-bit to 128-bit era through my examples, but I think I was wrong.

[Throw_this_away]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

scyphozoa wrote...

oh god, the trolling... my eyes...it
burns...

I'm not trolling, I'm just being sarcastic. I think anyone with half a brain can see that I'm actually trying to make a point.

so you don;t love me?  This was all a LIE?!?!? 

I was almost done making the wedding photo... I was just about to replace Tali's head with mine.    I was even going to put your face on the Tali fan art where she is doing the spread eagle and has the ****** that a geth  is sniffing.  

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Ecael wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Not seriously: And let me think like you. Testing ideas through payed content for player feedback? Hmmm, a test player where you should PAY to be a tester? Oh, where do I sign? It's a great idea to pay to be a beta tester! YAY! At least Firewalker was FREE (somehow).

I didn't mean test for glitches - that's what Quality Assurance is for. I meant test for new ideas that may fit into ME3.

It's allowing BioWare to be creative, instead of being stifled by the worry of "What if they don't like this...?"

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wasn't being really serious about the "payed beta tester" . But I still don't find the best way to do it is to give "premium" DLC. If they don't mind so much about it since it's testing ideas, why not give it free like the Firewalker?

[Throw_this_away]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Ecael wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Not seriously: And let me think like you. Testing ideas through payed content for player feedback? Hmmm, a test player where you should PAY to be a tester? Oh, where do I sign? It's a great idea to pay to be a beta tester! YAY! At least Firewalker was FREE (somehow).

I didn't mean test for glitches - that's what Quality Assurance is for. I meant test for new ideas that may fit into ME3.

It's allowing BioWare to be creative, instead of being stifled by the worry of "What if they don't like this...?"

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wasn't being really serious about the "payed beta tester" . But I still don't find the best way to do it is to give "premium" DLC. If they don't mind so much about it since it's testing ideas, why not give it free like the Firewalker?

Because nothing in life is free. 

[Ecael]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Ecael wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Not seriously: And let me think like you. Testing ideas through payed content for player feedback? Hmmm, a test player where you should PAY to be a tester? Oh, where do I sign? It's a great idea to pay to be a beta tester! YAY! At least Firewalker was FREE (somehow).

I didn't mean test for glitches - that's what Quality Assurance is for. I meant test for new ideas that may fit into ME3.

It's allowing BioWare to be creative, instead of being stifled by the worry of "What if they don't like this...?"

Yeah, I know what you mean. I wasn't being really serious about the "payed beta tester" . But I still don't find the best way to do it is to give "premium" DLC. If they don't mind so much about it since it's testing ideas, why not give it free like the Firewalker?

The DLC team needs to get paid.

[mosor]

Regarding planet scanning. I don't see how planet scanning is central to story progression. It's a damn time sink, and not a very fun one. I don't mind scanning a planet for an anomaly and do a mission but to collect a couple hundred thousand of each resource (Other than eezo) just to upgrade your weapons is long and tedious. Whether you do it in bits and pieces or in one shot. It's still time badly wasted.



On that note, stop putting time sinks that require doing useless repetitive tasks in general. Stop making game play annoying just to eat up my precious time ( I'm looking at you hammerhead vehicle that on some resources will hover off a target as you try to collect it.)

[Ecael]

mosor wrote...

Regarding planet scanning. I don't see how planet scanning is central to story progression. It's a damn time sink, and not a very fun one. I don't mind scanning a planet for an anomaly and do a mission but to collect a couple hundred thousand of each resource (Other than eezo) just to upgrade your weapons is long and tedious. Whether you do it in bits and pieces or in one shot. It's still time badly wasted.

On that note, stop putting time sinks that require doing useless repetitive tasks in general. Stop making game play annoying just to eat up my precious time ( I'm looking at you hammerhead vehicle that on some resources will hover off a target as you try to collect it.)

I didn't really understand why he said it was important to progression either, since upgrades aren't required.

However, the good thing is that with every mission released that gives resources, the less you need to scan in order to get all the upgrades you need. Thus, time playing the DLC slowly starts to take over the time to complete the tedious timesink.

My last Insanity playthrough where I only scanned anomalies but completed all of the missions clocked in at around 35-40 hours, without skipping any dialogues or cutscenes.

EDIT: Also, I think the whole vehicle hovering while collecting thing is a throwback to the Decryption mini-game from Mass Effect 1. You have to keep moving to keep your vehicle in the center. Or something like that...

Modifié par Ecael, 16 mai 2010 - 04:32 .

[spacehamsterZH]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Obviously games were much better when Pac Man was the pinnacle of technical achievement.

Well, I thought people would have the inteligence to think the 8-bit to 128-bit era through my examples, but I think I was wrong.

I'm just taking your argument to the other extreme to show that I don't think what you're saying really means anything. Was it possible for the industry to make quality videogames and for us to enjoy them before downloadable add-on content was technically possible? Sure. Does that mean DLC is a bad idea? Hardly. It was also possible to make enjoyable videogames on an Atari 2600, that doesn't mean every technological advancement since then has somehow watered down the quality of games because it was "unnecessary". Especially if it's something entirely optional like DLC. If you don't like the idea, don't buy it and wait for the next full game. I'm sure many people do.

[Burdokva]

Wait, exactly who gave positive feedback for the FireWalker? If anything, it managed to create a (gasp!) Mako nostalgia on the forums.

One thing that bothers me - why should there be a gap between Mass Effect 2 and 3? I don't want DLC to be mandatory, but "well, you know to experience Mass Effect 3 fully you'd need to buy DLC..." just makes it so. You're not required to buy it, but without DLC there'll be a "gap" in the story? Why?! Just make the story so there won't be a gap - like between the first and second games!

Modifié par Burdokva, 16 mai 2010 - 04:44 .

[Ecael]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

I'm just taking your argument to the other extreme to show that I don't think what you're saying really means anything. Was it possible for the industry to make quality videogames and for us to enjoy them before downloadable add-on content was technically possible? Sure. Does that mean DLC is a bad idea? Hardly. It was also possible to make enjoyable videogames on an Atari 2600, that doesn't mean every technological advancement since then has somehow watered down the quality of games because it was "unnecessary".

Back then, it was only normal to buy several games at once. DLC makes the customer choose between buying another game or buying more content for the game they're currently playing. It fosters a sense of brand loyalty - that is, if the customer happens to like that product so much. The customer is not locked-in to having to buy more DLC since it's all optional.

I'm loyal to a few game developers, and it would take a lot of convincing (by reviews or fans alike) for me to start playing another developer's game.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

spacehamsterZH wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Obviously games were much better when Pac Man was the pinnacle of technical achievement.

Well, I thought people would have the inteligence to think the 8-bit to 128-bit era through my examples, but I think I was wrong.

I'm just taking your argument to the other extreme to show that I don't think what you're saying really means anything. Was it possible for the industry to make quality videogames and for us to enjoy them before downloadable add-on content was technically possible? Sure. Does that mean DLC is a bad idea? Hardly. It was also possible to make enjoyable videogames on an Atari 2600, that doesn't mean every technological advancement since then has somehow watered down the quality of games because it was "unnecessary". Especially if it's something entirely optional like DLC. If you don't like the idea, don't buy it and wait for the next full game. I'm sure many people do.

But IMO, the way DLC has been handled by companies is awful. I just gave 2 examples, add MW2 map pack (30 bucks for 6 new maps, 4 from COD4), Capcom's RE5, Bioshock 2, the list goes on and on. DLC for buy on day 1 buy for me is not something good to give to please your consumers too, for me is like a slap on your face. Sure, there are good DLC out there, but I could very well enjoy games without them. These are some examples.

That's what I was basically saying. DLC is generally handled so bad and is generally so irrelevant that the question comes up: why have it anyway? At least that's the way I see it.

Companies vision? I usually think it's more money for less work. They kind of have the excuses that hardcore games today are so expansive that DLC is like an escape valve. But it's us, customers that rule the business, if "we" accept DLC, DLC will be, and it is. Sad.

[wakkawakkahey]

@Burdovka

There was a gap between ME and ME 2: what happened when Shepard was exploring the Geth worlds before the Collector attack? We don't know. The way I see, they get have made that part into DLC, so it helped fill the gap between ME and ME 2, but isn't mandatory to understanding the plot of ME 2. I could see something similar for between ME 2 and 3.

And I enjoyed the Firewalker pack, my only complaint was the combat: the Hammerhead can hardly take any damage.

[sipaufade]

that interview got me really excited for the future of ME2 DLC. i'm very pleased with the support they will continue to give to this amazing game. sometimes i'm with the complainers when i wait months for a DLC and it's a little lackluster but when i take a step back and look at the DLC as a whole, i'm very amazed by the effort they are putting into this game. i think that there will be great individual packs of DLC but they will be more appricated if viewed like a painting, taking a step back and looking at the whole picture.

I also think that for diehard fans, the paid DLC may even SAVE them money in the long run. between DA:O and ME2 DLC, i don't plan on buying ANY new games for a while. it will probably take me a couple months to equal out the cost of a retail game with the added DLC costs. so thats a positive way to look at all these little paid DLC.

 

[sipaufade]

Throw_this_away wrote...

spacehamsterZH wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

I speak for all of us when I say that Bioware and Casey should just stop wasting our time, give me free everything, and release a bug-free version of ME3 next week that has multiplayer, and tons of planet scanning.   The story could be that the Reapers need resources to survive another 50,000 years... so you need to mine everything before they arrive.  EPIC WIN!!!

Yeah, well, obviously Casey Hudson is still a huge fan of planet scanning. He said so in that video interview, we all saw it. Any statement from Hudson hisself that is anything other than "omg we so solly about everything and also LIARA LIARA LIARA" means he still thinks planet scanning is the greatest thing ever. Proof is in the puddin', folks.

Also, I'm going to have to disagree with your suggestion about ME3 there, I'm afraid - you only need resources to upgrade weapons, after all, and nobody likes those stupid pew-pew missions that turned ME2 into, you know, Gears of War with biotics, like we all know it is. ME3 needs to take the gameplay back to its roots like in ME1 where there wasn't any combat. What we really need is more dialogue so that this can be a proper RPG again, so I propose ME3 be called "Mass Effect: Exposition" and consist entirely of dialogue sequences on the Normandy. Ashley, Kaidan and Liara can just stand around in a dimly lit room telling us what's happening, it's not like there's any merit in leaving the ship and actually doing it yourself, exposition is the way of real RPGs.

And while we're talking about proper RPG elements, I think they need to reintroduce the inventory in its original form, maybe add a few layers of complexity like a QTE minigame you have to complete everytime you want to melt something down into Omni-Gel. I think fiddling with inventory screens is fantastic as long as I never actually have to go out and use the gear for anything.

WOW, I 100% agree with EVERYTHIG you have said.  

The inventory... I agree... such awesome immersion.  My only complaint is that you could ONLY carry 150 items at a time.  Serioustly!  This is Sheppard... kills reapers for breakfast... he could carry at least 200!

To add to the immersion shep should strap each piece of equipment to his back when he picks it up.  By the end it would look like "the princess and the pea"... and shep would be the pea... and all the beds would be his gear."  Fitting through doorways might be an issue. 

While we are talking about my FAv ME1 invintory system... lets be sure to tell Casey that we want every item that we find in the ame to be only just slightly better than the last one we found.  We all know that this is how it works in real life!!!  Don't kill immersion Bioware!!!

i don't think he said he was a fan of planet scanning. he said they put too much emphasis on it and didn't expect some people to either think they had to or just did scan the whole galaxy. he said the purpose of it was to get resourses and find other planets, n7 missions and some main missions. he diplomatically said they put to much emphasis on it and that they implementation will remain but it will be tweaked. he's not a scanning fan boy, he just thought it was funny that some people scanned the whole galaxy. 

[sipaufade]

also another problem i had with traditional rpg inventory, i think it LESSENS the immersion. I just don't think it's realistic to be able to carry 5 shotguns in an invisible inventory sack. i really liked how i had 19 guns and i knew there was a logical place for me to put them. it wasn't like i had 30 swords in my backpack that couldn't be seen on any of my party members. when you think about it, ME2 inventory systems was MORE immersive and realistic then any other RPG. was it flawed? yup. could we have had an option to make the weapons different colors and have indiviual pieces of the guns like barrels, stocks, and sights to improve weapon performance? that would be cool. but i'm not a fan of having 150 things floating around in space for me to magically pull out of my ass at any moment.

[Ecael]

Burdokva wrote...

Wait, exactly who gave positive feedback for the FireWalker? If anything, it managed to create a (gasp!) Mako nostalgia on the forums.

The Mako nostalgia was already there at ME2's release, as everyone noticed that vehicle combat was completely absent. The Hammerhead was left as a DLC because they were unsure how people would react to missions with vehicle components again.

One thing that bothers me - why should there be a gap between Mass Effect 2 and 3? I don't want DLC to be mandatory, but "well, you know to experience Mass Effect 3 fully you'd need to buy DLC..." just makes it so. You're not required to buy it, but without DLC there'll be a "gap" in the story? Why?! Just make the story so there won't be a gap - like between the first and second games!

They're running out of time - and not just because EA told them so. The intent was to make the entire Mass Effect trilogy on Unreal Engine 3/3.5 and on the X-Box 360. Unreal Engine 4 will reach completion around 2012, and the last thing they'd want to do is release a game right before or after that engine is out (or right before or after a new Microsoft console is out).

If they wanted to include everything they wanted to in Mass Effect 2, we'd have to wait about another year, and then an extra year for Mass Effect 3 as well. It would be far too late. Sure, they could throw more people and money at the problem, but there's always a limiting factor that prevents developers from releasing games every month (past the fact that BioWare's releasing several RPGs in a short timespan).

Right now, the "more people and money" is the DLC team, while the rest is continuously developing Mass Effect 3.

sipaufade wrote...

i don't think he said he was a fan of
planet scanning.

I believe spacehamster was joking.

Modifié par Ecael, 16 mai 2010 - 05:25 .