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[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

LordMandalore wrote...

Who the hell would want to have sex with Jack?

You haven't been on the internet for very long, have you?

[Bugsie]

I found the Jack/Shepard relationship (not necessarily romance) the most complicated to deal with out of all of them, and I’m convinced that this was Biowares intention. Did noone else get that impression? I found her (on a personal level) the most confronting character in the game.

[enormousmoonboots]

Jackal904 wrote...

It's lazy to look at her and think that she's just some wannabe hardcore chick. It is not lazy writing at all. Jack is the best written character in the game, and she has many conversations. More than Mordin and Grunt, so idk where you're getting the idea from that she has only a few conversations. And of course Mordin and Grunt are more psychologically stable, I fail to see the relevance of that statement. She has just as many implications and most characters, so again, I think you're exaggerating or uninformed. The only issue is that you have to romance her in order to explore her character. But it's like that for every character. It's a limitation of development, deal with it.

I didn't say she was a wannabe hardcore chick. I said that because of how limited her development is, most people get that impression, and it's not a surprise. To develop Jack's character, you need to be a male romancing her. This is seriously problematic. Nobody else need apply, and I'd say that 'male romancing Jack' is a very specific set of circumstances (1 out of 14 possible combinations, between ME1 and 2's romances, celibate Shepard, and both genders). No other character has their romance so heavily tied to their character development, and it's a serious handicap because most people won't experience it.

I honestly have no idea where you're getting that she's the best-written character in Mass Effect. She doesn't have any substantial writing outside of her romance, and a character that cannot stand apart from their romance arc indicates a writing failure.

Counting their romance dialogue, Jack has far more conversations that Garrus and Tali. Garrus and Tali have around 4. And Jack has like 7, not counting loyalty mission related conversations. If you count their loyalty mission related conversations, that makes 6 for Garrus and Tali, and 9 for Jack. So Jack has several more conversations to deal with her issues than Garrus and Tali.

This is the important part: I am considering Jack apart from her romance, while you are clearly not. Jack doesn't really have a character arc without romance. The others do, though some fall a bit flat (Garrus and Tali fall a little flat without romance, but the bulk of their issues are resolved in their LM anyway--Jack's just brings up more problems for her. Problems that you can't resolve without romancing her).

[Ultai]

Well, going from a non-gameplay standpoint which is probably the best way to look at it...in the books it seems it's hinted at least Hendel's case, that your average biotic needs to rest or regain their composure around a half a minute or so before they can unleash another biotic attack, I'm sure that time might increase the longer a fight drags on.  I'm not sure if it's the same with natural biotics like asari.

Jack from a non gameplay standpoint seems to have incredible power, but she's not invincible. She and Samara struggle to get through the biotic bubble part of the suicide mission. She said she was able to take a few down before they eventually got her, perhaps she exhausted herself.

Again best to look at it while not thinking it terms of me2 gameplay, where you can keep spamming warps and throws every few seconds without repercussion...I guess the cooldown system is their way of putting in "exhaustion."

Modifié par Ultai, 17 mai 2010 - 01:35 .

[Platypus92]

brain_damage wrote...

HOW? Jack told us how she got raped - and I don't get it. She's supposed to be the most powerful biotic in the universe, she defeats two YMIR mechs in front of you and yet somehow a bunch of guys from a local gang still managed to overpower her and rape her? What's next? World's most powerful biotic gets beaten and raped by a house cat? World's most powerful biotic gets defeated and raped by the gravity on the Citadel?
I mean...seriously, how did that happen?

When does she say she got raped I must have missed this part

[janeym27]

For me, it isn;t even the level of exploration afforded peopel who aren't romancing her that is the problem: it's thefact that you feel like she is begining to open up and trust Shep, but you can't take it any further unless you intend to bed her (and have a MaleShep). The abruptness with which that relationship is cut of for non LI is jarring.



@Platypus. Jack alludes to various rapes during conversations with her, but the OP is refering to dialogue she says if you take her to the Dark Star bathroom on the Citadel.

[Jackal904]

enormousmoonboots wrote...

I said that because of how limited her development is.

Are we talking about the same Jack here? Sure she doesn't completely get over her trauma without romancing her (I don't think she ever will even if you do romance her). But a lot of development happens with her characcter just from doing her loyalty mission. I can't help but think you are simply ignorant. When you first meet her she could give two ****s about you and she just wants to get your stupid mission over with then leave. After doing her loyalty mission, her overall view of you and the mission change significantly. She starts to care about the mission, and she becomes very appreciative towards Shepard.

Plus you see a change from her normal tough chick attitude during her loyalty mission, and you see a scared and sad version of her. And most importantly, she learns to deal with her past better, and not let it control her.

All just from doing her loyalty mission. No romance required.

Counting their romance dialogue, Jack has far more conversations that Garrus and Tali. Garrus and Tali have around 4. And Jack has like 7, not counting loyalty mission related conversations. If you count their loyalty mission related conversations, that makes 6 for Garrus and Tali, and 9 for Jack. So Jack has several more conversations to deal with her issues than Garrus and Tali.

This is the important part: I am considering Jack apart from her romance, while you are clearly not. Jack doesn't really have a character arc without romance. The others do, though some fall a bit flat (Garrus and Tali fall a little flat without romance, but the bulk of their issues are resolved in their LM anyway--Jack's just brings up more problems for her. Problems that you can't resolve without romancing her).

This is so untrue. Now I'm convinced you're just being ignorant.

janeym27 wrote...

it's the fact that you feel like she is
begining to open up and trust Shep, but you can't take it any further
unless you intend to bed her 

Yes that's true, but it's also true for most squadmates. I don't know why so many people act like this only happens with Jack. Unless you romance a romance-able squadmate, you cannot explore their character beyond two conversations and their loyalty mission.

Modifié par Jackal904, 17 mai 2010 - 02:39 .

[pf17456]

As I recall, the conversation prior to her loyality mission where she talks about how she escaped the facility she mentions something about either having been taken advantage of or raped by the crew on the ship she escaped on.

So how did this happen ?? Lets see, young, desperate, frightened, escaping from a facility that was her whole world which kind of makes her sort of naive. I suppose it would not have been very difficult to take advantage of someone in that situation. Think about how many run away badass girls wind up raped or sold or dead in real life and you can easily understand how something like that can happen. Doesn't matter how tough you are but it does matter how vulnerable you are or how willing you are to trust someone offering you shelter from something you're running from.

Hope that answers the how

[AntiChri5]

FYI: It was inmates AND gaurds who jumped her.

[pf17456]

FYI

[janeym27]

Jackal904 wrote...

janeym27 wrote...

it's the fact that you feel like she is
begining to open up and trust Shep, but you can't take it any further
unless you intend to bed her 

Yes that's true, but it's also true for most squadmates. I don't know why so many people act like this only happens with Jack. Unless you romance a romance-able squadmate, you cannot explore their character beyond two conversations and their loyalty mission.

I agree that all of the romances give greater character insight than not having the character as an LI (and so they should), but my feeling was that with Jack, the fact that you couldn't explore her character further wirthout romancing her actually felt false based on how it had developed already. With all the others, while I knew there wasmore to them than I was getting, I could accept them not sharing more with Shep unless getting romantically involved (except Tali. Taht always rang false to me as well). It fitted in with their characters and the way said characters had developed already. Jacon and Miranda, I can take the Cerberus professionalim as distance. Garrus doesn't do much talking even if you do romance him (it's not really his bag). Thane is quite at peace with himself and his fate, and after his LM could be seen as contented (actually, I think that it is actually the romance which reawakens his fear, but that's my interpration)Basically, I could pretty much guess when all the conversations with tose guys were exhausted based on the point we finished on. With Jack, however, it feels like the relationship is cut off a tad abruptly. Like "I'm not gay!!" "OK, well that wasn't my intention. Chillax."  They could have written it so she freaks out at having been so vunerable and withdraws that way (or something. Some REASON), but of course, that would present a problem in her trusting Shepard enough to follow her into the SM. Unfortunatly, because she opens up a little, but then simply declines to talk further without adequate explanation as to why, I felt like it was not in keeping with the way her character was developing. It raised more questions than the romance would have answered. The whole thing was quite jarring to me. I don't need full resolution of all her issues, but some conclusion to the relationship that didn't leave me feeling like she had more to say would be nice.

But this was just my experience. This game allows for a good dead of subjectivity. I just felt like the cut-off for Jack was jarring and irritating.

[Bugsie]

janeym27 wrote...

But this was just my experience. This game allows for a good dead of subjectivity. I just felt like the cut-off for Jack was jarring and irritating.

Subjectivitiy - yes definitely.  I look at this way, my interactions with her in game were pretty much how I would likely deal with such a personality in real life, call her nuts and walk away and not be bothered.  Although I feel that the cut-off for Jack was jarring and irritating (as it would be for me in real life) I'm willing to try and challenge my perceptions of her further - from what I have seen here it sounds like many of you have experienced more complex gameplay with her character than I have.

[Lady of the Waters]

LordMandalore wrote...

Who the hell would want to have sex with Jack?

Try posting this in "Into the bad girl"...

P.S. That *wasn't* a suggestion.

Modifié par Lady of the Waters, 17 mai 2010 - 04:10 .

[SpiderFan1217]

LordMandalore wrote...

Who the hell would want to have sex with Jack?

She was the first LI that I romanced.

[Armax]

[LordMandalore]

*Notices amount of times my quote has been copied*

[Meshakhad2]

Maybe something happened to her amp.

[CherryColaLola]

It was consensual. she's just pissed there's no marriage proposal. Pissed Jack is no good, better to just marry her.

[Kaiser Shepard]

This topic reminds me of the one a while ago where some idiots tried to justify rape...



What's that I hear? WOO TRAIN BABY!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

This topic reminds me of the one a while ago where some idiots tried to justify rape...

What's that I hear? WOO TRAIN BABY!

WHAT

[Sharn01]

Jack is also not the most powerful biotic, just for the record.  The game said she MAY be the most powerful HUMAN biotic.  Granted this still means she is extremely powerful, and if there was ever a way to locate all the most poweful human biotics in the galaxy and test them to see who is the strongest Jack would be on the list of invites. 

I just find some of the assumptions and misinformation constantly spread around on the boards annoying, carry on.

[OneDrunkMonk]

Quite simple. As obviously Cerberus had to have SOME WAY of controlling her or otherwise subduing, I would think a collar that would paralyze her through shock. Or some kinda device strapped to her that would administer a drug to immobilize, weaken or cause unconsciousness. Anything that would cause her not to focus would work to an extent as well as shutting down her Biotic amps.

[TheShadowWolf911]

what the hell did i just find?