148 réponses à ce sujet

[Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams]

Am I just heartless? I honestly see letting the Rachni queen go as being one of the worst possible decisions to make as Paragon/Renegade in either game. When I did a full paragon run through ME1 and saved her I just felt retarded as she walked away and thought, "how could this possibly be a good idea?"

[Raizo]

I'm still not decided on whether letting the Rachni queen live was a good idea or not, still when push came to shove I couldn't kill her.





The Genophage Cure data. I had it destroyed. This was a very tough choice. I got paragon points for my dicission so I know I made the right coice and yet.....



Then there was that Asari merc in Samara's recruitment mission, I knew she was a liar, that she was a killer but I always let her live instead of killing her. I have a bad feeling that I'm going to run into her again.



I chose to re-write the Geth's programming. This was another tough choice, one where it is difficult to know which option was the lesser of 2 evils.



Destryoing Collector Base and leaving Cerebus. I have no regrets about destoying the base since the only other potion was to hand it over to Cerebus and that would happen over my dead body although other posters on this forums have pointed out the obvious, that maybe some technology could have been salvaged from it to help with the Reaper threat ( even though Reaper tech > everyone elses ). I do feel that leaving Cerebus now means that I am on TIM's **** list. Not only could he now make Shepard's life really difficult now but he can kill Miranda's ( my LI ) sister at anytime since Cerebus knows about her and they are watching her.

[Cheese Elemental]

Cerberus Operative Ashley Williams wrote...

Am I just heartless? I honestly see letting the Rachni queen go as being one of the worst possible decisions to make as Paragon/Renegade in either game. When I did a full paragon run through ME1 and saved her I just felt retarded as she walked away and thought, "how could this possibly be a good idea?"

Well, you really have no way of knowing whether she's lying to you. She's the last of her race, and clearly a highly intelligent life-form. If I were her, I'd do my best to avoid destruction of the Rachni again.

See, if they were indoctrinated, then you can't blame them for what they did. If they invaded voluntarily, then they got their punishment and probably aren't stupid enough to try it again considering there bigger threats out there (Reapers, obviously).

Modifié par Cheese Elemental, 17 juillet 2010 - 02:03 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

I don't see how some people can say that the Geth can just defect at some critical time, then turn around and say that the Collector Base will be a big boon. You have to remember that the Collector Base is Reaper Tech, who is to say that anything made from it won't be reprogrammed by the Reapers? After all, the Reaper's seem to count on living beings to use their tech when it comes time for the cycle to repeat so that the harvesting becomes easier.



I'm not saying I advocate Paragon's coming out smelling like a Rose, I would like to see consequences for both sides. I just don't get how anyone could think, well the Geth could be re written, yet the tech made from our enemies could never ever be used against at some point.

[mosor]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I don't see how some people can say that the Geth can just defect at some critical time, then turn around and say that the Collector Base will be a big boon. You have to remember that the Collector Base is Reaper Tech, who is to say that anything made from it won't be reprogrammed by the Reapers? After all, the Reaper's seem to count on living beings to use their tech when it comes time for the cycle to repeat so that the harvesting becomes easier.

I'm not saying I advocate Paragon's coming out smelling like a Rose, I would like to see consequences for both sides. I just don't get how anyone could think, well the Geth could be re written, yet the tech made from our enemies could never ever be used against at some point.

Geth have been rewitten before. Maybe could happen again. Besides, depends on your goals. If you want human dominance, it's better to knock down other potential threats before they occour. Personally  I just sell legion in the hope with the advances in project overlord, that cerberus will control all geth.

As for the collector base. It wasn't meant to be found by any normal species other than ones already mechnaically modified by the reapers. The relay was impossible to acesss with the collectors in control without an IFF. It's unlikely they have indoctrination devices there because they didn't expect any organic species to take it over. Indoctrination devices are either in reapers, or devices the reapers hope organics will find. Unlikely in a base that is inaccessable and well defended.

Modifié par mosor, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:09 .

[Giggles_Manically]

Since the only Reaper was killed in the base I doubt it will indoctrinate people.

[NanQuan]

Shandepared wrote...

NanQuan wrote...

Same. That's the paragon choice that made me immediately go "Doh! shoulda killed the ****!"

Why does that stand out? It's not the first time a paragon has let a murderer go free.

It was the first time I immeaditely regretted a paragon choice. Actually, when I think about it, it's probably the only time I've really regretted any paragon choice. That's why it stands out to me. I'm doubtful whether it'll have a major impact in the long run, but I hate choosing that option on a paragon playthrough because I know she's a liar now.

[mosor]

Also how do we really know Legion isn't a heretic. That he had us do his dirty work to eliminate geth who mistrust organics but didn't want to work with the reapers? The only indication we have that he may be telling us the truth is getting paragon points.

I can't be the only one who thinks it's strange that a lone geth can have more intelliegence than a varren without a group of more geth around. That you convieniently find him at a derelict reaper. Sure he shot a few husks for you but big deal.

Modifié par mosor, 17 juillet 2010 - 04:28 .

[Sparda Stonerule]

mosor wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I don't see how some people can say that the Geth can just defect at some critical time, then turn around and say that the Collector Base will be a big boon. You have to remember that the Collector Base is Reaper Tech, who is to say that anything made from it won't be reprogrammed by the Reapers? After all, the Reaper's seem to count on living beings to use their tech when it comes time for the cycle to repeat so that the harvesting becomes easier.

I'm not saying I advocate Paragon's coming out smelling like a Rose, I would like to see consequences for both sides. I just don't get how anyone could think, well the Geth could be re written, yet the tech made from our enemies could never ever be used against at some point.

Geth have been rewitten before. Maybe could happen again. Besides, depends on your goals. If you want human dominance, it's better to knock down other potential threats before they occour. Personally  I just sell legion in the hope with the advances in project overlord, that cerberus will control all geth.

As for the collector base. It wasn't meant to be found by any normal species other than ones already mechnaically modified by the reapers. The relay was impossible to acesss with the collectors in control without an IFF. It's unlikely they have indoctrination devices there because they didn't expect any organic species to take it over. Indoctrination devices are either in reapers, or devices the reapers hope organics will find. Unlikely in a base that is inaccessable and well defended.

I wasn't talking about indoctrination. I was talking about the Reapers showing up and using the tech that might come from the base against us. Are you seriously suggesting the Reapers have no idea how to control their own tech? Say if Cerberus built a Reaper, who honestly thinks the Reaper's couldn't just bring it to their side. If we built a weapon with their tech they could just interface with it and make it stop working. The Reapers are partial machines with massive technological skill, and considering they can outright take over machines anything built using their own tech seem pretty risky.

As a Black man once said. Heavy risk, but the prizzzzzzze.
(The prize may be worth it or it may just blow up in our faces, point is it's impossible to tell which is right, much like real life all decisions have possible risks and possible rewards).

[mosor]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...


I wasn't talking about indoctrination. I was talking about the Reapers showing up and using the tech that might come from the base against us. Are you seriously suggesting the Reapers have no idea how to control their own tech? Say if Cerberus built a Reaper, who honestly thinks the Reaper's couldn't just bring it to their side. If we built a weapon with their tech they could just interface with it and make it stop working. The Reapers are partial machines with massive technological skill, and considering they can outright take over machines anything built using their own tech seem pretty risky.

As a Black man once said. Heavy risk, but the prizzzzzzze.
(The prize may be worth it or it may just blow up in our faces, point is it's impossible to tell which is right, much like real life all decisions have possible risks and possible rewards).

1. All you need to do is have a bomb ready and blow it up if they come back. I'm sure you can still use the same location you used a ratiation bomb and have a real bomb ready in the event they try to retake it.
2. We are already using technology based on reaper tech. I'm sure they know how to counter stuff we already have. The best thing we could find out is if the reapers have a weakness to their own tech. To understand it better than they intended us to is our best chance.
3. Who said anything about cerberus building a reaper? No one other than the reapers has the power to round up millions of humans and liquefy them to build even one.
4. Regarding your last point. They do have massive technological skill. Thats why it's important to understand it as best as we can to know if they have limitations, weaknesses, maybe upgrade our own to exploit those. The reapers leave only a little behind so we advance along their lines. Our best chance is to surpass the limitations of information they imposed on us. If we had decades or centuries to go down a different path, I'd argue to do that. However, we don't and our best chance is to understand them as quickly as possible. Hence keep the base.

Heavy risk...sure. Heavier risk by blowing up the base and keeping ourselves in the dark.

Modifié par mosor, 17 juillet 2010 - 05:08 .

[Braxton]

I just finished my first play through of ME2 with my Shepard from ME1 and I am a little disappointed that being a Paragon has had so little consequence so far. It's probably all going to hit the fan in ME3 for Paragons though. I did not gain the loyalty of all members of my team but I did not save Wrex in ME1 (this could be a regrettable decision in ME3 as what I am reading indicates that he needs to be around to have the Krogan on my side). It might be BioWares intent, and I hope it is, that the consequences of your decisions will manifest in ME3. Obviously destroying the Reaper base should have a major consequence for paragons in that the casualties are high and some systems may be wiped out entirely, perhaps Earth will be hit hard (though the colonists, from what we have seen, don't particularly care for the Alliance would cheer for this.) I also think telling TIM to stick it should have some repercussions in that Cerberus will be out to get you now and to retake their ship. Likewise, the Alliance should support you now and welcome you back and the Council should support you too. Perhaps by destroying the base and telling TIM to stick it, you get set on a mission to end Cerberus' experimenting, further igniting their wrath.

[mosor]

Braxton wrote...

I just finished my first play through of ME2 with my Shepard from ME1 and I am a little disappointed that being a Paragon has had so little consequence so far. It's probably all going to hit the fan in ME3 for Paragons though. I did not gain the loyalty of all members of my team but I did not save Wrex in ME1 (this could be a regrettable decision in ME3 as what I am reading indicates that he needs to be around to have the Krogan on my side). It might be BioWares intent, and I hope it is, that the consequences of your decisions will manifest in ME3. Obviously destroying the Reaper base should have a major consequence for paragons in that the casualties are high and some systems may be wiped out entirely, perhaps Earth will be hit hard (though the colonists, from what we have seen, don't particularly care for the Alliance would cheer for this.) I also think telling TIM to stick it should have some repercussions in that Cerberus will be out to get you now and to retake their ship. Likewise, the Alliance should support you now and welcome you back and the Council should support you too. Perhaps by destroying the base and telling TIM to stick it, you get set on a mission to end Cerberus' experimenting, further igniting their wrath.

Yeah you probably need wrex to have the krogan on side even if you destroyed the genophage cure. Though I think you might be able to get them onside without wrex if you keep the cure, I think that wrex leads the krogan more to a civil society, while wreave will keep it traditional and warlike. Though if you're a renegade and want complete human dominance, maybe wrex dead is the best thing. Weave's way will bring the krogan to a slow extinction without the genophage cure. Getting Grunt killed by making him the second fireteam leader should absolutely gurantee that.

[rorrim180]

Letting the two asari through customs in the Citadel that are flagged as geth...it will be disatrous!
Seriously though, they're the T1000 of geth, I just know it.

[Lunatic LK47]

LJScribes wrote...

I'm sure it's been said, but you pretty much are turning into someone similar to Saren in ME1
if you made most of the Paragon choices.

You have cybernetic implants.
You have both Geth and Krogan buddies.
You're Allied with the Rachni.
You aided in a possible cure to the Genophage.
You have ties to Cerberus, (even if you are on their badside, the rest of the galaxy doesn't know that)
You have a super ship with an AI
You are friends with Benezia's daughter.

You seem to fit the description of a Renegade Spectre, basically making taboo decisions and being connected to people who are quite sketchy.

Probably the only thing you really got going for you in your defense against treason is that you Destroyed the Collector base and that you are a nice guy. However if you remember, Saren's intentions were good, though twisted.

It's likely that the moment you return to the Citadel in ME3 you'll be accused of treason and the like, and the Turian Council member will be making many finger quotes at you.

But hey at least you'll have a crap load of allies come the Reaper attack.

To me it seems like the Renegade Shepard is doing what everyone wants. (sort of)

However, in the end, his choices will bite him in the butt.

You got cybernetic implants, easier to Indoctrinate then :s.
if you sold Legion, it's possible that the Heretics infected the rest of the Geth Collective, meaning a crap load of angry Reaper worshipping, organic killing Geth.
The Quarian are going to attempt to go to war with those Geth.  (so their 50,000 ship fleet, ((largest in the Galaxy after the Geth)) will be to busy fighting that War or dying to help you with the Reapers)
You are allied with Cerberus who will most likely build a Reaper.
You didn't aid in curing the Krogan, or save the Rachni, so you are down 4 powerful allies.  (Geth, Quarian, Krogan, and Rachni)
You let the Council die in ME1, most of the Citadel races no longer trust you or humans so you won't get their full aid when the Reapers come.

Basically all you got goin for you is the Cerberus Reaper and the small group of allies still loyal to you.

Except Saren was a jack-ass who wanted genocide for Humanity. There was nothing noble about him, period.

[JockBuster]

mosor wrote...

Braxton wrote...

I just finished my first play through of ME2 with my Shepard from ME1 and I am a little disappointed that being a Paragon has had so little consequence so far. It's probably all going to hit the fan in ME3 for Paragons though. I did not gain the loyalty of all members of my team but I did not save Wrex in ME1 (this could be a regrettable decision in ME3 as what I am reading indicates that he needs to be around to have the Krogan on my side). It might be BioWares intent, and I hope it is, that the consequences of your decisions will manifest in ME3. Obviously destroying the Reaper base should have a major consequence for paragons in that the casualties are high and some systems may be wiped out entirely, perhaps Earth will be hit hard (though the colonists, from what we have seen, don't particularly care for the Alliance would cheer for this.) I also think telling TIM to stick it should have some repercussions in that Cerberus will be out to get you now and to retake their ship. Likewise, the Alliance should support you now and welcome you back and the Council should support you too. Perhaps by destroying the base and telling TIM to stick it, you get set on a mission to end Cerberus' experimenting, further igniting their wrath.

Yeah you probably need wrex to have the krogan on side even if you destroyed the genophage cure. Though I think you might be able to get them onside without wrex if you keep the cure, I think that wrex leads the krogan more to a civil society, while wreave will keep it traditional and warlike. Though if you're a renegade and want complete human dominance, maybe wrex dead is the best thing. Weave's way will bring the krogan to a slow extinction without the genophage cure. Getting Grunt killed by making him the second fireteam leader should absolutely gurantee that.

Saving Wrex in ME1 = 28 Paragon points, killing him (Shepard or Ashley) = 8 Renegade points. The easiest way to NOT kill Wrex is to make sure that you take him on his ME1 Loyality quest to the hidden structure, but if you don't then you can give it to him in the cargo bay.

[Simpfan]

 Destroying the Collector Base.

Just watch, during a fight in ME3 "Oh I sure wish we had some powerful beam weapons right about now" which is followed by death

Modifié par Simpfan, 18 juillet 2010 - 01:56 .

[mosor]

JockBuster wrote...

mosor wrote...

Braxton wrote...

I just finished my first play through of ME2 with my Shepard from ME1 and I am a little disappointed that being a Paragon has had so little consequence so far. It's probably all going to hit the fan in ME3 for Paragons though. I did not gain the loyalty of all members of my team but I did not save Wrex in ME1 (this could be a regrettable decision in ME3 as what I am reading indicates that he needs to be around to have the Krogan on my side). It might be BioWares intent, and I hope it is, that the consequences of your decisions will manifest in ME3. Obviously destroying the Reaper base should have a major consequence for paragons in that the casualties are high and some systems may be wiped out entirely, perhaps Earth will be hit hard (though the colonists, from what we have seen, don't particularly care for the Alliance would cheer for this.) I also think telling TIM to stick it should have some repercussions in that Cerberus will be out to get you now and to retake their ship. Likewise, the Alliance should support you now and welcome you back and the Council should support you too. Perhaps by destroying the base and telling TIM to stick it, you get set on a mission to end Cerberus' experimenting, further igniting their wrath.

Yeah you probably need wrex to have the krogan on side even if you destroyed the genophage cure. Though I think you might be able to get them onside without wrex if you keep the cure, I think that wrex leads the krogan more to a civil society, while wreave will keep it traditional and warlike. Though if you're a renegade and want complete human dominance, maybe wrex dead is the best thing. Weave's way will bring the krogan to a slow extinction without the genophage cure. Getting Grunt killed by making him the second fireteam leader should absolutely gurantee that.

Saving Wrex in ME1 = 28 Paragon points, killing him (Shepard or Ashley) = 8 Renegade points. The easiest way to NOT kill Wrex is to make sure that you take him on his ME1 Loyality quest to the hidden structure, but if you don't then you can give it to him in the cargo bay.

My first playthrough was Paragon and I managed to charm him. My second as a renegade, I did the armor quest so no charm was needed. However, I'm sure you can intimidate him into staying as well as charm him, and get a similar amound of renegade points for saving him.

[LJScribes]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Except Saren was a jack-ass who wanted genocide for Humanity. There was nothing noble about him, period.

 Saren made it his goal to save the races of the galaxy by aiding the Reapers, proving the worth of organics to the Reapers so that they might be spared. He believed that servitude was the logical answer, instead of instinctively fighting to the finish.

However the effects of indoctrination began to take hold on Saren, little by little, but his resistance or maybe his usefullness kept him from complete indoctrination (the more indoctrinated you are, the less capable you are, basically like zombification).  After his confrontation with Shepard on Virmire where (assuming you were Paragon) his words bred doubt in Saren's plan.  Sovereign noticed this and implanted Saren with a great deal of cybernetics, strengthening his hold over him.

During the final battle on the Citadel, Shepard convinces Saren that he still can stop the Reapers and fight the indoctrination.  In a last effort to resist Sovereign Saren shoots himself in the head after saying "Goodbye, Shepard. Thank you."

So no, Saren was not an evil genocidal maniac.  Though it is true that he had a great deal of animosity toward humans for killing his brother during the First Contact War, but a great deal of turians felt the same way.

So it is because of Saren's true intentions in ME1 that I believe that a Paragon Shepard is basically subconsciously following in his footsteps.  Just through a different method.  Rather than submitting to the Reapers in hopes of surviving through servitude,  Shepard wants to win against them.

Modifié par LJScribes, 19 juillet 2010 - 06:30 .

[JockBuster]

Simpfan wrote...

 Destroying the Collector Base.

Just watch, during a fight in ME3 "Oh I sure wish we had some powerful beam weapons right about now" which is followed by death

Save the base, then talk to all the survivors on the Normandy (hit A to continue the game, not the main menu).
then
Destroy the base, then talk to all the survivors on the Normandy (hit A to continue the game, not the main menu), especially Simara.
Take Grunt & Miranda to fight the reaper, or Grunt & ? or Miranda & ? Grunt will tell you to keep the base and use the enemy's weapon against them, then talk  to him again after the mission.
And I always destroy the base (reaper factory) because "you can't trust Cerberus!"

[dreman9999]

1. Keeping the cure of the genophage.(Mordin tell you he can make the cure from scrach if you destory it.)
2.Giving a crooked polic cheif his own assasin arrand boy.
3.Keeping Kasumi's grey box.
4.Rewriting the geth
5.Letting that young eclipse asari go.

[dreman9999]

LJScribes wrote...

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

Except Saren was a jack-ass who wanted genocide for Humanity. There was nothing noble about him, period.

 Saren made it his goal to save the races of the galaxy by aiding the Reapers, proving the worth of organics to the Reapers so that they might be spared. He believed that servitude was the logical answer, instead of instinctively fighting to the finish.

However the effects of indoctrination began to take hold on Saren, little by little, but his resistance or maybe his usefullness kept him from complete indoctrination (the more indoctrinated you are, the less capable you are, basically like zombification).  After his confrontation with Shepard on Virmire where (assuming you were Paragon) his words bred doubt in Saren's plan.  Sovereign noticed this and implanted Saren with a great deal of cybernetics, strengthening his hold over him.

During the final battle on the Citadel, Shepard convinces Saren that he still can stop the Reapers and fight the indoctrination.  In a last effort to resist Sovereign Saren shoots himself in the head after saying "Goodbye, Shepard. Thank you."

So no, Saren was not an evil genocidal maniac.  Though it is true that he had a great deal of animosity toward humans for killing his brother during the First Contact War, but a great deal of turians felt the same way.

So it is because of Saren's true intentions in ME1 that I believe that a Paragon Shepard is basically subconsciously following in his footsteps.  Just through a different method.  Rather than submitting to the Reapers in hopes of surviving through servitude,  Shepard wants to win against them.

You need to read Mass effect :Revelations.
Saren want to take down humanity with the reaper teck, then he was going after the other races to increase turian intrest.
But  he got way over his head and became indoctrinated instead becoming a slave for the reapers. His epic speech he made at novaria and the citadel; all indoctrination talk. He was just a puppet on strings spouting delutions of grandeur egge on by the reapers. He barly had control over histhoughts.

[Matroska]

Don't take spin-off books so seriously. They're just an extra way for the license holders to make some money but shouldn't really be taken as seriously as the games, especially if - as you suggest - they totally alter how the game portrays a character.

[atheelogos]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

mosor wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I don't see how some people can say that the Geth can just defect at some critical time, then turn around and say that the Collector Base will be a big boon. You have to remember that the Collector Base is Reaper Tech, who is to say that anything made from it won't be reprogrammed by the Reapers? After all, the Reaper's seem to count on living beings to use their tech when it comes time for the cycle to repeat so that the harvesting becomes easier.

I'm not saying I advocate Paragon's coming out smelling like a Rose, I would like to see consequences for both sides. I just don't get how anyone could think, well the Geth could be re written, yet the tech made from our enemies could never ever be used against at some point.

Geth have been rewitten before. Maybe could happen again. Besides, depends on your goals. If you want human dominance, it's better to knock down other potential threats before they occour. Personally  I just sell legion in the hope with the advances in project overlord, that cerberus will control all geth.

As for the collector base. It wasn't meant to be found by any normal species other than ones already mechnaically modified by the reapers. The relay was impossible to acesss with the collectors in control without an IFF. It's unlikely they have indoctrination devices there because they didn't expect any organic species to take it over. Indoctrination devices are either in reapers, or devices the reapers hope organics will find. Unlikely in a base that is inaccessable and well defended.

I wasn't talking about indoctrination. I was talking about the Reapers showing up and using the tech that might come from the base against us. Are you seriously suggesting the Reapers have no idea how to control their own tech? Say if Cerberus built a Reaper, who honestly thinks the Reaper's couldn't just bring it to their side. If we built a weapon with their tech they could just interface with it and make it stop working. The Reapers are partial machines with massive technological skill, and considering they can outright take over machines anything built using their own tech seem pretty risky.

As a Black man once said. Heavy risk, but the prizzzzzzze.
(The prize may be worth it or it may just blow up in our faces, point is it's impossible to tell which is right, much like real life all decisions have possible risks and possible rewards).

All the tech we have is based on Reaper tech anyway so I don't see how using the base is anymore dangerous than doing what we are already doing.

[atheelogos]

[quote]JockBuster wrote...

[quote]Simpfan wrote...

 Destroying the Collector Base.
"you can't trust Cerberus!"[/quote]
Thats just petty in the grand scheme of things.

Modifié par atheelogos, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:05 .