126 réponses à ce sujet

[epoch_]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...


Renegade Shepard don't need no stinking alien armies backing him up as renegade Shepard can solo all the Reapers

[Reaper27]

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

Modifié par Reaper27, 18 mai 2010 - 03:00 .

[Bigdoser]

Reaper27 wrote...

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

Wow I never thought about the situation turning out like that.

[Inverness Moon]

Bigdoser wrote...

Reaper27 wrote...

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

Wow I never thought about the situation turning out like that.

Renegades who sell Legion to Cerberus aren't really thinking. It seems more like they do that because it is the renegade choice than because of any good reason.

I also think saving the collector base in ME2 will make up for lack of Rachni, Krogan, or Geth allies.

I remember discussing before the release of ME2, how could a human-only council possibly hold onto power, and I just knew that BioWare would find some way to make it happen, but didn't know how. And now we have our answer in ME2, imho, the technology of the collector base.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 mai 2010 - 08:20 .

[lovgreno]

Inverness Moon wrote..
Renegades who sell Legion to Cerberus aren't really thinking. It seems more like they do that because it is the renegade choice than because of any good reason.

I also think saving the collector base in ME2 will make up for lack of Rachni, Krogan, or Geth allies.

I remember discussing before the release of ME2, how could a human-only council possibly hold onto power, and I just knew that BioWare would find some way to make it happen, but didn't know how. And now we have our answer in ME2, imho, the technology of the collector base.

Yes thats true. Frankly many of the renegade choices are rather stupid. Wich is a shame, both renegade and paragon choices should make good sense.

Yes assuming Harbringer didn't destroy anything that could be used against him when he left the base. Leaving something that might create a nasty suprise for the reapers arriving in the Milky Way would be rather stupid. But I guess we will get our answer if Cerberus becomes husks in ME3.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

gashgfjaskgfkagh wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Collider wrote...

Except giving Reaper technology capable of indoctrination to an organization that has tried mind control and heinous experiments before is a horrible idea.

You know what's an even worse idea? Blowing up the only chance you're ever going to get to study how that technology works and thus find solutions to combat it. Logical reasoning is wasted on you and the rest of the witch burners though.

The main reason for destroying the base is: OH NOES!!!! CERBERUS EVIL!!! THE SMOKING MAN EVIL!!! DIE STUPID EVIL BASE!!!!
The Paragons are being chased by Cerberus, the only organization that believed Shepard and actually supported him, and now they want to get back to their super-awesome Allaince and the very supportive Council. They just have destroyed the only evidence that might convince the Council. Well enjoy the dismissals.
I can't see the logic behind the whole idea of destroying the base.

I think I'll prefer Human Dominance in the Galaxy (which my Shepard supports) over dead off every space faring species.

sadly, I wish it was slightly reworded, but the general gist, under ling arguement of paragons for that decision is that we will find another way to deal with the reapers other than thru their technology. Besides, I hihgly doubt cerbersus is going to share this tech with anyone else but humans, and considering Cerbersus adgenda, I am guessing that the humans will attempt to take over the council and if the coo succeeds or fails depends upon the collector base decision.

I don't think it'll really matter. We have freedom to choose the path we'll follow and I'm sure Bioware won't try to force us to be a Paragon/Renegade.

Sadly they have. without an import, you pretty much have to have gone one way or the other otherwise your gonna be ****ed when you get to miranda / jack and Tali / legion.

[GreenDragon37]

A lot of them. Like the Council's death and the Rachni's death.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Renegades who sell Legion to Cerberus aren't really thinking. It seems more like they do that because it is the renegade choice than because of any good reason.

Actually I think Shepard has plenty good reason to sell Legion. Albeit, I think the most sensible course of action would be to activate Legion, interrogate him, and THEN decide whether or not to ship him off to a Cerberus lab.

Yea. Some renegades seem to forget that Legion shot at the husks sneaking up behind you instead of trying to blow your head off, and it even spoke. It just seems straight dumb not to at least try to communicate.

[Arijharn]

Collider wrote...

It's not that I don't think the technology could be useful. It's that we'd be giving the base to Cerberus, which has millions of failed and immoral experiments. It'd be like giving the base to a bunch of evil doofuses.

We would only ever hear of their failures, and not of their successes. Use your common sense, they're a shadow organisation. It's not like they're going to put a big article in 'GALACTIC MEDICINE' saying they have successfully reversed someone's death and the only reason we know about this success is because, well, we ARE that success. Ergo, why would anyone outside the cell be aware of any other success they have? Cerberus has obvious ties to military and industrial powers, so any success they have is passed onto those organisations, minus any of the moral quandaries that came about during it's development.

[lovgreno]

Arijharn wrote...

Collider wrote...

It's not that I don't think the technology could be useful. It's that we'd be giving the base to Cerberus, which has millions of failed and immoral experiments. It'd be like giving the base to a bunch of evil doofuses.

We would only ever hear of their failures, and not of their successes. Use your common sense, they're a shadow organisation. It's not like they're going to put a big article in 'GALACTIC MEDICINE' saying they have successfully reversed someone's death and the only reason we know about this success is because, well, we ARE that success. Ergo, why would anyone outside the cell be aware of any other success they have? Cerberus has obvious ties to military and industrial powers, so any success they have is passed onto those organisations, minus any of the moral quandaries that came about during it's development.

This might be true but it's unwise to base your decisions on what you don't know or what you hope might have happened. What Shepard does know about Cerberus is a long list of violent failiures, wich almost included Shepards resurection. Shepard does know that TIM takes extreme risks without knowing much about what he is experimenting on with no concerns about the consequences. He basicaly asks us to play russian roulette without explaining why. Sure, Cerberus might do some good but we only have TIMs word for it, wich frankly isn't worth anything.
This of course is assuming the Collector Base holds anything of value at all wich is just wishfull thinking.

[Arijharn]

Not only that, but it would make little sense for the great Citadel Council itself to make Cerberus their 'avowed enemy' if Cerberus wasn't, you know, effective.

[megatron999]

Maybe cerberaus secretly works for the council?

It would make sense, it would be impossible for them to restore the normandy and Shepherd without someone saying something.



Also wot about TIM backers? they have loads of money at their disposal

[DarthCaine]

Ah yes, "consequences". We have dismissed that claim

[lovgreno]

Shandepared wrote..
Cerberus has more successes than they do failures.

Perhaps but as far as Shepard knows he still just have TIMs word for it and his word is worth nothing. And there are still a lot we don't know about Cerberus wich in itself is a risk for anyone working with them. What else are Cerberus doing? TIM fears the truth so don't ask him. Considering their history it could be anything. Assuming it must be mostly good is wishfull thinking. Assuming it may be too dangerous things is recognising a potential risks.

If it was good things TIM have nothing to lose from telling Shepard about it to keep him loyal. Yet he didn't, even if it likely made Shepard even more suspicious.

History shows that secrets are usualy used for covering up failiures and crimes. It is usualy the tool of the incompetent. The competent use the truth to their advantage and usualy win in the end. This have nothing to do with good and evil by the way.

Bottom line: Secrets are always a potential risk. Especialy with Cerberus as history proves.

[megatron999]

It would be interesting if in zaeeds mission you choose to let the slaves burn and kill vido, Zaeed would then lead bluesuns in ME3.



Another scenario could be if patriarch leads omega and forces aria out. She is then pissed at you and wants you dead.



I reckon that the rachni will return in ME3 and aide you or perhaps join the reapers in exchange for some reward.



What would have really interested in ME2 was if your actions had more of an affect on your squads loyalty missions.



For example if you don't bother getting Anoleas arrested on illium Thane is sent to assasinate him instead of the Asari and it takes place on Illium instead.



Or if you prusue a relationship with Liara then she may have your baby. That would be very interesting.

[Tonks32]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Selling legion. Killing sidonis. Throwing away the greybox. Killing the council. Punching the reporter. 

punching the reporter! Never will i regret that!!!

[megatron999]

Tonks32 wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Selling legion. Killing sidonis. Throwing away the greybox. Killing the council. Punching the reporter. 

punching the reporter! Never will i regret that!!!

Maybe you can shoot her in ME3!!!

[Dean_the_Young]

Inverness Moon wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Renegades who sell Legion to Cerberus aren't really thinking. It seems more like they do that because it is the renegade choice than because of any good reason.

Actually I think Shepard has plenty good reason to sell Legion. Albeit, I think the most sensible course of action would be to activate Legion, interrogate him, and THEN decide whether or not to ship him off to a Cerberus lab.

Yea. Some renegades seem to forget that Legion shot at the husks sneaking up behind you instead of trying to blow your head off, and it even spoke. It just seems straight dumb not to at least try to communicate.

For the same reason that sometimes Paragons don't get differentiation between good-smart and good-stupid, neither do Renegades get to differentiate their choices.

Without foresight, there's not much to go on to justify not selling him. He talked, but he didn't communicate in any meaningful way. He shot the husks, but didn't stay to help you either.

It doesn't take much imagination to think of reasons for either of those that don't necessitate believing the Legion is something good and must be recruited. The geth as we knew them have always been evolving: speach could be one. The husks indoctrinated by the derilect Reaper might not have any differentiation between 'friendly' geth and any foe, and Shepard is the diversion. He could be on the Reaper for the Geth's own reasons (which he was), or this could be one of the more clever geth infiltrator rumors* we heard about on the Citadel.

*Not saying that Legion could be one in his form, but rather that given the (Paragon granted) opportunity for deceit, he could take it via infiltrator programing.

Strictly speaking, there's no reason besides plot that selling him to Cerberus would invalidate recruiting him either. You sell him, then a few missions later (perhaps even after the Collector Base) TIM sends you an express package with a letter saying 'we studied him and found something very interesting and relevant to your mission, and so are sending him to you for the greater good of humanity etc. etc.' and then you get Legion.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Dean_the_Young wrote...


Without foresight, there's not much to go on to justify not selling him. He talked, but he didn't communicate in any meaningful way. He shot the husks, but didn't stay to help you either.

He didn't just talk, he said Shepard's name and had a bit of N7 armor welded to him. That alone makes him interesting and worth interrogating, even if you don't know you can later recruit him. Even for a renegade, unless that renegade has not even one curious bone in his/her body.  

He also opened the door that allowed you to get to the reaper's core. 

Strictly speaking, there's no reason besides plot that selling him to Cerberus would invalidate recruiting him either. You sell him, then a few missions later (perhaps even after the Collector Base) TIM sends you an express package with a letter saying 'we studied him and found something very interesting and relevant to your mission, and so are sending him to you for the greater good of humanity etc. etc.' and then you get Legion.

That could work, but the implication I read from the "sell Legion" dialog was that Cerberus would take him apart to see how an intact geth worked.

Anyway, the big thing that seems like it'll bite renegade players in the butt is the base. The fact is that the only good thing to come from reaper technology is the thanix cannon, and that's by investigating semi-intact pieces of Sovereign. As we saw with the derelict reaper, even "inactive" reaper technology can be very dangerous, much less a completely intact base used for the production of reapers. 

Mind, I'm not too sure what sort of tech you could even harvest from that base. The Collector tech wasn't advanced enough to let their cruiser beat Normandy (upgraded or no) despite having a tremendous size advantage, we have no idea what sort of reaper shipyard facilities there are, and the only reaper related tech we saw was the smoothie machinery; reapers seem to grow on their own when fed with human smoothies, since we clearly saw no factory-like setup welding reaper parts onto the terminator reaper. 

Further, giving that base to Cerberus only compounds that problem, because Cerberus has repeatedly demonstrated that they don't know proper safety protocols. Husks, thorian creepers, rachni, derelict reapers, the biotic facility Jack escaped from, probably the plot for the Overlord DLC... About the only success Cerberus has in making use of something dangerous is Shepard, and that's because they bribed him/her with a new ship and distracted him/her with another more immediate threat. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Strictly speaking, there's no reason besides plot that selling him to Cerberus would invalidate recruiting him either. You sell him, then a few missions later (perhaps even after the Collector Base) TIM sends you an express package with a letter saying 'we studied him and found something very interesting and relevant to your mission, and so are sending him to you for the greater good of humanity etc. etc.' and then you get Legion.

My thoughts exactly.

What infuriates me is the inability to send Grunt in the tank to Cerberus to study the Collector technology Okeer put in it. Especially since if you open the tank, TIM sends you an e-mail, expressing the interest in getting Grunt's body should it become unuseful to yourself... So I'm just flying around the Galaxy with a private museum of the natural history of Tuchanka in my warship's hold, with a huge "DON'T TOUCH!" sigh attached to the single exhibit.

[Nightwriter]

Grunt knew you only wanted him for his body, you naughty devil.

[Pacifien]

Ah, debates of attrition...