126 réponses à ce sujet

[Mykel54]

Even if you destroyed the rachni, left the council to die, sold legion to cerberus, destroyed the genophage cure, survived only with 2 team members the suicide mission, and destroyed the collector base, shepard will still be able to defeat the reapers. The only thing that may change is that it may be a more costly victory (more planets destroyed, more casualties etc.) but Bioware won´t make you unable to beat ME3 just because of the options you picked in the past games.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Reaper27 wrote...

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

OMFG...I've done that one of my playthroughs...CRAP.

Then again knowing Bioware it may not even have an impact on ME3. Like 2 sentences and thats it.

But its scary to think about...IF they actually made it so it changed things drastically.

I'm more worried about my decision to keep Morinth alive and killing Samara in one of my Renegade playthroughs

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Shandepared wrote...

No one is saying that the Renegade choice to ship off Legion without activating him makes sense. What we are saying is that it would be better if you could talk to him and then decide whether or not to recruit him. I can easily see Shepard interrogating Legion but then deciding that he can better serve the mission by getting dissected in a Cerberus lab. Or as Dean suggested he could get sent back to us, but perhaps in that case we'd only get him after the Suicide Mission, but with some kind of adjustment I imagine. In any case, we all agree it makes more sense to at least talk to Legion first.

Problem: That's not what Dean said. If it was, I wouldn't have posted that. 

Oh I'm getting so tired of arguing this that I'm ready to just throw in the towel. 

You probably should. Every point you make on this matter is based on wishful thinking that Cerberus, an organization who has a known history of mishandling just about any sort of dangerous object they try to research, will be able to safely reverse engineer some reaper-defeating technology from the collector base. It'd be one thing if Cerberus had a history of making solid advancements from the stuff they research, rather than a history of nearly everything they research blowing up in their face. About the only examples of success I can think of are rebuilding Shepard, influencing the SR1's development/building the SR2, and getting the quarian codes in the novels. Of those, the only one that involved researching something potentially unpredictable and dangerous was reviving Shepard. 

Plus, as I said earlier, the collector technology is clearly not enough to render a collector cruiser able to take on what amounts to a heavy frigate (SR2 Normandy), even one without upgrades. Despite that cruiser being many, many times larger than the frigate.

Basically, any collector tech from the base isn't going to be enough, going by its terrible performance in the SR2/Collector cruiser matchup. 

And the only reaper tech we've seen in that base is the smoothie machine; we don't even know if there's any other goodies there. There might be all sorts of delicious reaper weapons and kinetic barrier generators and everything else, or there might be nothing but the useless (unless you want to make a reaper I suppose) smoothie machine. It's impossible to say either way, but given that the collectors had their own crappy biotech techbase, I wouldn't put it past the reapers to give their slaves nothing more than the resources needed to do the job.

And even then, anything you do find is very likely to be dangerous, given the tendency of reaper technology to start indoctrinating people (see the mission in ME1 where the scientists dug up reaper tech and willingly turned themselves into husks, plus the ME2 N7 mission where the miners uncovered a reaper husk maker and also turned themselves into husks.) 

Fact is that saving the base has a very high likelihood of coming back to bite RenShep in the rear, based on the situation and the history of Cerberus. It could turn out to be a great and war winning advantage, yes, but I don't see that as particularly likely. 

[Zulu_DFA]

Nightwriter wrote...

Grunt knew you only wanted him for his body, you naughty devil.

When I feel frustrated for any reason, I take the elevator to Deck 4 and mindf*ck Grunt in his tank, until... well, untill it gets boring.

[Chuvvy]

All of them. Even though for the biggest choices Renegade is the smart choice.

[megatron999]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Reaper27 wrote...

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

OMFG...I've done that one of my playthroughs...CRAP.

Then again knowing Bioware it may not even have an impact on ME3. Like 2 sentences and thats it.

But its scary to think about...IF they actually made it so it changed things drastically.

I'm more worried about my decision to keep Morinth alive and killing Samara in one of my Renegade playthroughs

Well to be honest I really hope they do. That would be so cool and interesting concept, I do believe that your choices for ME2 will greatly affect ME3.  You must all remember tha game is a trilogy meaning that new comers may not have played ME1-2.

Yes you will have a default option which would be all squad member surviving/giving base to cerberaus and killing the geth on legions loyalty mission.

[Zulu_DFA]

megatron999 wrote...

Yes you will have a default option which would be all squad member surviving/giving base to cerberaus and killing the geth on legions loyalty mission.

Agreed except for squadmates. They'll be all dead but Miranda and Jacob. Less cameos for newbies!

Oh, and by default, Legion is probably sent to Cerberus, which results in destroying the Heretics: TIM activates Legion, Legion, being on the mission to save the true Geth, tells TIM the story, TIM alerts the Alliance, the Alliance sends a "Normandy class" frigate with an N7 team (like against the Batarian space mirror facility). Same result as if Shepard blows up the Heretics station.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 mai 2010 - 11:57 .

[Helena Tylena]

What I'd like is for 50/50 of (big) Paragon/Renegade options to bite you in the rear.

Mass Effect 1
Feros: Killing/sparing Shiala. Shiala could 'remember' important information, though the spore residue could make her susceptible to indoctrination, making her turn on you.

Noveria: Saving the Rachni Queen could secure powerful allies against the Reapers, but they could also be indoctrinated again. Also, we only have the Queen's word that she isn't an evil, lying b*tch, and that they aren't waiting until they're strong enough to attack the galaxy again. Killing the queen removes any of these possibilities.

Vermire: Killing Wrex is stupid any way you slice it, but a true Renegade doesn't have to because a true Renegade will have enough Renegade points to yell him back in line. Wrex may also end up dead as Paragon. The difference between a dead and a live Wrex will possibly a united Krogan people ready to help you, or only helping you reluctantly or even working against you.

Citadel: Saving the Council or letting the council die is also an unknown factor. The old council could throw in their lot with you because they owe you, but they could also not. A human controlled/exclusive council could be controlled by Cerberus, meaning they'd support you, or they could not. Either choice could bite you in the hindquarters.

ME2
Saving/destroying the Genophage cure could turn out either way. Lots of Krogan could be a really good or a really bad thing, depending on what other choices you made.

I don't think selling Legion would turn all Geth into Heretics. That info is probably stored somewhere inside him, and Cerberus will probably be able to retrieve it and contain the Heretic threat, possibly by 'leaking' that info to the Alliance.

Killing Samara or Morinth might have some impact, but I don't see how much damage a single Ardat-Yakshi could do. Especially if she pisses of Shepard. Also, Morinth could choose to join you for the heck of it, while Samara's code prohibits her from leaving Asari space unless she really absolutely has to. We don't know.

Tali's trial is also interesting. Sending the Quarians to war with the Geth could destroy either side as a potential ally. Having the Quarians find a new homeworld could cause all manner of complications: native species, accidents, they could simply still be building when the Reaper attack hits and be vulnerable. Also, either choice you make could divide the Quarians, making them weaker overall.

Killing Vido could get you the Blue Suns, so there's a nice Renegade choice to make. It could also not get you the Blue Suns, or worse, get the Blue Suns to be very, very angry at you.

Blowing up the Collector Base keeps dangerous technology out of dangerous hands, however saving it might mean that you have very powerful tech available that will somewhat be on par with the Reapers, giving you more of a fighting chance.

[Tooneyman]

All renegade choices. haha. Same with paragon there is no right choice. muhaahahahaaa!

[mosor]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Reaper27 wrote...

Selling Legion to Cerberus is the worst thing a Renegade can do. It means that Legion never goes to the Heretic base and the Heretics' plan to rewrite the Geth succeeds. That means that there is now a MASSIVE army of Geth who all support the Reapers.

OMFG...I've done that one of my playthroughs...CRAP.

Then again knowing Bioware it may not even have an impact on ME3. Like 2 sentences and thats it.

But its scary to think about...IF they actually made it so it changed things drastically.

I'm more worried about my decision to keep Morinth alive and killing Samara in one of my Renegade playthroughs

Legion is a special geth since he doesn't require many geth to be more intelligent than a varren. It might just give cerberus the knowledge needed to fight the geth more effectively and take care of all of them and make tech to help with the reapers too. Lets also not forget Admiral Xen and her own reprogamming initiative.

Killing or Sparing Morinth shouldn't make a difference in the galactic scheme of things. At absolute worst,  she parts ways after your mission and she is just another murderer in a galactic sea of murderers and cuthroats. At best you have a powerful ally.

Samara on the other hand. At absolute worst, she concludes that the events of the collector base is the max she is willing to be bound by her oath. She then proceeds to interfere with your mission if you run into her again by trying to kill you. At best, she sees her oath bound until you defeat the reapers not just the collectors and you get a powerful ally who grits her teeth at your decisions.

Modifié par mosor, 25 mai 2010 - 02:35 .

[megatron999]

It would be interesting if say for paragon rescuing Hostages on Zaeeds loyalty mission meant that Vido after escaping puts a bounty on your head and you have to go and kill him anyway.



If legion is handed over to cerberaus wouldn't it stand to reason that they would use him to reprogram all of the Geth to be loyal to cerberaus?



Sparring Morinth would probably lead to her trying to kill you in the end or maybe the crew find out?.



My only issue is that I hope that the decisions made in ME2 do drastically effect ME3 playthrough. This would make the game huge but I really want Bioware to really go for it in ME3 full blast.



Newcombers would not necessarily matter much anyway you would just have default settings whichever they maybe.

[Nizzemancer]

Shandepared wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

This might be true but it's unwise to base your decisions on what you don't know or what you hope might have happened. What Shepard does know about Cerberus is a long list of violent failiures, wich almost included Shepards resurection.

Not as long as you might think.

There was the rachni research station, Chasca colony, Lazarus station, and finally Teltin which was over 20 years ago. Both Chasca and Lazarus are directly linked to the Reapers, and yet at least with Lazarus Cerberus managed to salvage the goal of the project despite losing many personnel and the station itself. Otherwise they've been widely successful.

The operation going after the Migrant Fleet was of mixed success. The original of objective of obtaining codes to monitor the fleet was completed successfully. Later when they tried to use those codes to infiltrate it they were again successsful. The part that failed was the actual retrieval of Gillian herself. None the less, even if the ultimate goal was lost they still managed what no-one else had.

That's not even including their influence in getting the Normandy SR1 built, building the SR2, compiling the dossiers for Shepard's team. Luring the Collectors into two traps, finding the derelict Reaper and its killer, and finally pentrating the inpenetrable Omega-4 Relay and neutralizing the Collectors.

Cerberus has more successes than they do failures.

Most of their successesare due to Shepard helping their sorry asses...

[megatron999]

I was wandering if you choose not to give the base to cerberaus, will they become hostile to you in ME3?

For example deny weapons/tech perhaps take crew away?

[Nizzemancer]

megatron999 wrote...

I was wandering if you choose not to give the base to cerberaus, will they become hostile to you in ME3?
For example deny weapons/tech perhaps take crew away?

I hope they'll try...I'm still paying them back for killing admiral Kahoku.

[Siansonea]

Considering how little impact the ME1 choices had in ME2, I'm thinking most of Shepard's Renegade choices in ME2 will result in Very Stern Emails from either the Illusive Man or the Alliance in ME3.

[Solenai]

Killing the Rachni queen will definitely come back to bite you. Geth...could go either way. Genophage cure destroyed means no Krogan shock troopers to use against reapers.

Letting the council die could actually help. If you pay attention to some of the news broadcasts on the citadel, you learn that the turians are increasing dreadnought (sp?) production. Those extra ships might come in handy when the reapers arrive. Of course there's always the possibility that a civil war will break out before the reapers attack or the turians might even secede as one of the citadel races, becoming a rogue state like the batarians and leave the alliance to rot.

[Nizzemancer]

Solenai wrote...

Killing the Rachni queen will definitely come back to bite you. Geth...could go either way. Genophage cure destroyed means no Krogan shock troopers to use against reapers.

Letting the council die could actually help. If you pay attention to some of the news broadcasts on the citadel, you learn that the turians are increasing dreadnought (sp?) production. Those extra ships might come in handy when the reapers arrive. Of course there's always the possibility that a civil war will break out before the reapers attack or the turians might even secede as one of the citadel races, becoming a rogue state like the batarians and leave the alliance to rot.

Mordin even said that if he started working on it straight away he'd have to research it for several years, and even if the Krogan became capable right off the get-go of spawning 1000's of children in no time at all they would still just be children in any case, they wouldn't be ready to become shock-troops for wuite a few years, it's not shake&bake cake-mix we're talking about here...

[Dean_the_Young]

Since we don't know when the Reapers will arrive, we have no valid claim to say that the Krogan wouldn't be advantageous, especially when the implications are that they would be. Saren's cure was said to have been able to deliver an endless hoarde in a timeframe of months or years. Development times like children are unlikely a concern.

[mosor]

Solenai wrote...

Killing the Rachni queen will definitely come back to bite you. Geth...could go either way. Genophage cure destroyed means no Krogan shock troopers to use against reapers.

Letting the council die could actually help. If you pay attention to some of the news broadcasts on the citadel, you learn that the turians are increasing dreadnought (sp?) production. Those extra ships might come in handy when the reapers arrive. Of course there's always the possibility that a civil war will break out before the reapers attack or the turians might even secede as one of the citadel races, becoming a rogue state like the batarians and leave the alliance to rot.

Why would destrioying the cure mean no krogan shock troopers? Mordin says he can recreate it, and didn't teach Maelon all he knows.  Better to be safe so it doesn't get in the wrong hands and even better than you kill Maelon so he doesn't blab about you having is initial research to other Krogan warlords. Saving the research is only probably a good idea if you plan on Mordin dying on the suicide mission and have no problem with high breeding rampaging Krogan in the galexy.

Another good thing about letting the council die is that humanity is more assertive and proactive in solving their own problems rather than begging to a deaf council. I just pick Udina as councillor because he is better at diplomacy and trust building than Anderson.

Modifié par mosor, 27 mai 2010 - 07:26 .

[Dean_the_Young]

The likely answer is that it wouldn't be able to be recreated in time in manner. That's the point of the choice: you can build off of what's already done, or destroy all progress.

[mosor]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

The likely answer is that it wouldn't be able to be recreated in time in manner. That's the point of the choice: you can build off of what's already done, or destroy all progress.

Who knows. Something tells me you're still going to have the choice in saving the krogan regardless of what you do if Mordin lives,

[Nizzemancer]

mosor wrote...

Solenai wrote...

Killing the Rachni queen will definitely come back to bite you. Geth...could go either way. Genophage cure destroyed means no Krogan shock troopers to use against reapers.

Letting the council die could actually help. If you pay attention to some of the news broadcasts on the citadel, you learn that the turians are increasing dreadnought (sp?) production. Those extra ships might come in handy when the reapers arrive. Of course there's always the possibility that a civil war will break out before the reapers attack or the turians might even secede as one of the citadel races, becoming a rogue state like the batarians and leave the alliance to rot.

Why would destrioying the cure mean no krogan shock troopers? Mordin says he can recreate it, and didn't teach Maelon all he knows.  Better to be safe so it doesn't get in the wrong hands and even better than you kill Maelon so he doesn't blab about you having is initial research to other Krogan warlords. Saving the research is only probably a good idea if you plan on Mordin dying on the suicide mission and have no problem with high breeding rampaging Krogan in the galexy.

Another good thing about letting the council die is that humanity is more assertive and proactive in solving their own problems rather than begging to a deaf council. I just pick Udina as councillor because he is better at diplomacy and trust building than Anderson.

“Diplomats were invented simply to waste time”.

When your enemys only concern is to wipe you out at any cost, diplomats hold as much value as a used condom. And from what I saw Anderson fills the role quite well while Udina is a clueless blubbering fool as both Ambassador and Council-member.

[mosor]

Nizzemancer wrote...

mosor wrote...

Solenai wrote...

Killing the Rachni queen will definitely come back to bite you. Geth...could go either way. Genophage cure destroyed means no Krogan shock troopers to use against reapers.

Letting the council die could actually help. If you pay attention to some of the news broadcasts on the citadel, you learn that the turians are increasing dreadnought (sp?) production. Those extra ships might come in handy when the reapers arrive. Of course there's always the possibility that a civil war will break out before the reapers attack or the turians might even secede as one of the citadel races, becoming a rogue state like the batarians and leave the alliance to rot.

Why would destrioying the cure mean no krogan shock troopers? Mordin says he can recreate it, and didn't teach Maelon all he knows.  Better to be safe so it doesn't get in the wrong hands and even better than you kill Maelon so he doesn't blab about you having is initial research to other Krogan warlords. Saving the research is only probably a good idea if you plan on Mordin dying on the suicide mission and have no problem with high breeding rampaging Krogan in the galexy.

Another good thing about letting the council die is that humanity is more assertive and proactive in solving their own problems rather than begging to a deaf council. I just pick Udina as councillor because he is better at diplomacy and trust building than Anderson.

“Diplomats were invented simply to waste time”.

When your enemys only concern is to wipe you out at any cost, diplomats hold as much value as a used condom. And from what I saw Anderson fills the role quite well while Udina is a clueless blubbering fool as both Ambassador and Council-member.

Well if you play the renegade way, you notice that former council races don't trust humans much and the humans are already gun-ho and more agressive (Info from the news radio). They really don't need anderson to be more militeristic and action oriented. What they do need is more consenus and trust, and building that is out of Anderson's league.

Now if you save the council, humanity is wishy washy, always asking the council for help, but never getting it and never taking any initiative on their own (The info was again gained from the news radio). The council themselves are a bunch of ditherers, who spend way too much debating and not taking action until it's far too late. Anderson fits a good role here to push for more action and take more initiative than Udina could.

[Dave of Canada]

Not sure if it was mentioned, but telling the Council to shove it (if spared in ME1).

[Lumikki]

Induvidual person choise doesn't matter in global ways, unless those induvidual have very influense position on they race. It's all about races and information, what can bite.