337 réponses à ce sujet

[Leon Evelake]

The title is pretty self explanatory.  Comments from the developers indicate that dragon age 2 will use the Awakening conversation system or something akin to it.  Allegedly the original is not cost effective, though considering how successful the game was it seems to me it may be to ensure they can get the sequel out quickly.

I find this disheartening I love Origins its in my top 10 or maybe 5 games of all time.  The reason I enjoyed it so much was because the characters had real depth and the the conversation system allowed me to fully create my character's personality in a way that was fuller and more nuanced than other games, and because it allowed me to feel like I created real relationships between the characters.
I liked Awakening for what it was but its system does not deliver this I always felt like something was missing, like I was restrained, frankly the new system is broken and the effort of having to take multiple characters to the same cites to get them to talk was burdensome, not to mention being able to go up to npc's and talk at any time and not my own party is asinine.  In the original I used certain people for main quests and others or side quests, I used everybody a decent amount and got to know them fairly well, I should not be expected to play through the game multiple times to get to know the different characters.

I hate to say it but I highly doubt it that I will buy the sequel if they use the awakening system, other people have said the same on these boards, so I was wondering what other peoples thought on the matter are.

[Mdfitz]

maybe depends if the story is still good

[Leon Evelake]

Mdfitz wrote...

maybe depends if the story is still good

true, the story was good and well wrote but i wonder how effective it would be without that sense of connection.

[Rhys Cordelle]

I think a blend of the two would be best. I did like that you could walk up to a statue in Awakenings and have one of your characters initiate a conversation about it, but I thought this system was spoiled by clicking on a generic tree to initiate a dialogue with oghren that had nothing to do with trees. That just didn't make sense to me.



I like being able to ask your companions questions and get to know them better as per origins, but I did find it offputting to keep initiating dialogue with them and see the same old options again and again. Maybe it is better if conversations are scripted to happen at certain points/locations in the game, but I hope it's done in a way that lets you get closer to the characters than awakenings did.

[DanaScu]

I don't like the "new" conversation system. While I do replay games, being required to do it in order to run through areas with different party members to get conversations and do side quests is more "aggravation" than "playing".

I have yet to get Oghren's quest; I don't use him often, and abusing my tab key to find conversation triggers is more like "work" than a game.For that matter, I know I'm missing chunks of the dialogue/backstory/character development. I just can't force myself to care that much. Keeping the "new" conversation/dialogue system will be a factor in my decision to purchase the next game or not.

[expanding panic]

Unfortunately I would be surprised but happy if Bioware went back to the DAO conversation system. Simply because what will make Bioware the most money and if it is true the the original conversation system cost that much more they won't do it. I believe that most people will still buy the game if they went with the "New" conversation format. I hope Bioware decides to go with the "let's make a great game" approach and not the "lets make a good game quickly to make money" approach as they did with ME, ME2, and DAO

[Malanek]

Leon Evelake wrote...

Allegedly the original is not cost effective, though considering how successful the game was it seems to me it may be to ensure they can get the sequel out quickly.

Hold on a second, how is one more "cost effective" and who said that? The only way it can be more cost effective is to have less dialogue. Would I welcome that? 
No, of course not. However that has nothing to do with the awakening system, which can be written with just as much dialogue. The awakening system was IMO an improvement. It paces the game better than cramming it all into one blob and doesn't waste the players time investigating conversation options when none exist. The only genuine drawback that has been argued is you have to hold down the reveal key or you will miss dialogue options.
I actually liked BG2 system the most. It had a mixture of scripted scenes (on location and combat events) and random events for when the different conversations would trigger and felt very natural.

[Brockololly]

Meh, if it was exactly like Awakening's system but just in a bigger game, I'd likely wait and see how it fared in reviews and such. I definitely wouldn't rush out to pre-order it or anything. I wouldn't rule out getting it completely but I'd definitely prefer a dialogue system more closer to Origins than Awakening going forward.

[Axekix]

It would be a tough sell I think. I'd still be curious to see what it's about, but I'm definitely not a fan of the Awakening dialogue model.

[Tellervo]

What I'd like to see:

Companions give you an indicator while out and about that they'll have new dialogue in camp. Just a generic, "We should talk," or some sort of situational party bark. I don't care for them leaping on you all the time when you walk into "camp" ("Shut up, Velanna, I got **** to do!"), though it's fine and appropriate occasionally. This would "streamline" the system a bit and give them more control over pacing, but allow them to keep it closer to the original dialogue system. Stomping all over Thedas looking for landmarks to get dialogue will make me ragequit, probably. I hated that stuff.

It also seems highly inappropriate to have a seriously personal conversation in the field, so I'd prefer most of the dialogue going on in whatever the camp equivalent is. So, silence in camp or a generic line (as in Awakening) until the character's party bark triggers while in the field. If you leave someone behind all the time, you're unlikely to get their dialogue, which is kind of appropriate, though it forces you to use everyone equally, which may agitate some.  I know some of Sten's more interesting dialogue is like this.  Relying on the party barks could also produce serious glitches, so there may be a better way to do it.

The dialogue system in Awakening, I didn't care for it, clearly. I felt detached from the new companions, and it wasn't simply the brevity of the game. The interaction felt stiff and stilted.

Modifié par Tellervo, 17 mai 2010 - 06:08 .

[MistySun]

If DA2 uses the Awakening system of dialogue this will be a big BIG mistake. I hate the Awakening system. Who on earth wants to hunt for a landmark to trigger a dialogue with a party member? 
DAO had it perfect. At least you knew where you would get the dialogue..well most of it anyway.
From what i have read on the forums...DA2 looks like it's going to be disaster.
Bioware had better take note of what people really feel about the dialogue system and make sure it's more like DAO than Awakenings.  
Can you imagine buying DA2 and find there is hardly any party dialogues? This is what made DAO so successsful...the character dialogue. Why make a sequel that lacks that? People will say, oh, i don't want that.
I always had this feeling that DAO would be a one off game...that is there will never be another to equal it in terms od party dialogue...the romances etc.
Seems DA2 won't have much of a story to tell.
Sigh...we need another DAO.

[sassperella]

Well they've already said they'll be using the awakenings system with some tweaks in the future as it's more cost effective. Very disappointing if they don't flesh it out a lot more than awakenings and allow more interaction with characters.

Bioware don't seem to realise that what makes this game is the character interaction and the feeling that you're travelling with a group of companions rather than playing an interactive movie like the latter final fantasy games. Ah well I enjoyed the first one even though half the gameplay was dodging enemies the other half dodging bugs, let's hope Bioware consider their fans as well as their pockets when making a sequel.

[Nu-Nu]

The romance scenes/convos will be terrible if they used only the awakening convo style. The interactions is what makes the game stands out from all the other rpgs. It makes you feel connected. I don't want to find a convo point in the bottom of the dungeon and not have the right member with me. As for pacing, that could easily still be done with the old style, just have more options opening up depending on how many quests you've done.

I didn't mind it, but on it's own it's rubbish. I hope bioware rethink making convo soley on awakening style.

And to answer the question, I probaly will buy it but if it's rubbish I won't be buying da3.

Modifié par Nu-Nu, 17 mai 2010 - 09:38 .

[Master Shiori]

Awakening dialogue system was pretty much work-in-progress.

Bioware will likely improve it and make significant changes based on player feedback, but it's unlikely they'll drop it in favour of going back to what was in Origins.



While having party members start a conversation with you based on what you encounter in the game world is nice, the whole "hunt down a specific point just to click on it" wasn't really that much better then having a long list of questions to ask in camp.



I believe that it would be better if conversation topics weren't available right off the bat, but rather, were unlocked by companions making comments about ceirtain things they notice while in your group.



Example:



Instead of having the option of asking Alistair about his childhood as soon as you get him, you could have the topic unlock by him noticing something as you walk through a town and making a remark about it and how it reminds him of when he was growing up. This unlocks the topic of being raised by Arl Eamon and sent to the Chantry, which you can ask him about right there or later when you're back at camp.



Similar example:

Leliana's discussion about shoes and fashion in Orlais could have been triggered by talking to the Orlesian merchant woman in Denerim.

Warden could ask about her wares at which point Leliana would join in the conversation by relating her experience with orlesian fashion and talking about what she liked about it.

[trickfred]

Master Shiori wrote...

While having party members start a conversation with you based on what you encounter in the game world is nice, the whole "hunt down a specific point just to click on it" wasn't really that much better then having a long list of questions to ask in camp.

I believe that it would be better if conversation topics weren't available right off the bat, but rather, were unlocked by companions making comments about ceirtain things they notice while in your group.

So, instead of "hunt(ing) down a specific point just to click on it", you have to hunt around for conversation starters? How is that any better? You'd still have to hunt around.

No offense, I just don't really see much of a difference between the thing you don't like, and the thing you suggest to replace it.

[VampireCommando]

i wouldnt like it, but i'd still by it, i reckon a Hybrid of both systems would be better, say you keep the old system so at camp you can still have a good old chin wag, but at the same time implement the new one so when your walking about they can have unquie convos with the party, then everyone gets the best of both worlds, i'm sure someone at BW has thought about this aswel, i just hope then impliment it.

[Awildawn]

I would buy a hybrid of both too.

In depth long conversations at the camp

awakening types for short sidestories.

[SPOILERS sorry] For example, if awakening would have been a bigger story, Nathaniel in depth story would have been recounted at camp, lead to multiple discussions (DaO convo mode) and could have lead to a "clear your reputation" quest which would reward Nathaniel with a statue for his good work (and friendship/love toward the PC)... But the story of his grandpa loosing his bow and the shorter sidequest which resulted with the bow being given back to Nathaniel could have been introduced by the awakening convo.

One doesn't prevent the other. For example, trying to fulfill the "clear Nathaniel's name", the PC can come across the location of his gramps bow and thus fulfill both quests, becoming Nathaniels best buddy (or stalkee).



To me, this feels more natural but maybe it is really complicated to realise (basically theis means 2 NPC quest, which add as many possible endings to take into account in the mainframe of the game).

Whatever happens, I will buy DAO 2. I don't see D.Gaider or Ms Lee letting Bioware getting rid of nice dialogs and cool stories for Da when they clearly have put a lot in the world.

[sami jo]

Tellervo wrote...

What I'd like to see:

Companions give you an indicator while out and about that they'll have new dialogue in camp. Just a generic, "We should talk," or some sort of situational party bark. I don't care for them leaping on you all the time when you walk into "camp" ("Shut up, Velanna, I got **** to do!"), though it's fine and appropriate occasionally. This would "streamline" the system a bit and give them more control over pacing, but allow them to keep it closer to the original dialogue system. Stomping all over Thedas looking for landmarks to get dialogue will make me ragequit, probably. I hated that stuff.

It also seems highly inappropriate to have a seriously personal conversation in the field, so I'd prefer most of the dialogue going on in whatever the camp equivalent is. So, silence in camp or a generic line (as in Awakening) until the character's party bark triggers while in the field. If you leave someone behind all the time, you're unlikely to get their dialogue, which is kind of appropriate, though it forces you to use everyone equally, which may agitate some.  I know some of Sten's more interesting dialogue is like this.  Relying on the party barks could also produce serious glitches, so there may be a better way to do it.

The dialogue system in Awakening, I didn't care for it, clearly. I felt detached from the new companions, and it wasn't simply the brevity of the game. The interaction felt stiff and stilted.

That.  Exactly.  Awakening wasn't bad per se, but I have no desire to play through it again; unlike Origins which I have happily tromped through a dozen times.  The interaction with the companions is what keeps me going back to Origins.  I want to see all of their possible reactions to everything.  Something inbetween the two systems like Tellervo described would have made Awakening a much more immersive experience for me.

[UpiH]

sami jo wrote...

Tellervo wrote...

What I'd like to see:

Companions give you an indicator while out and about that they'll have new dialogue in camp. Just a generic, "We should talk," or some sort of situational party bark. I don't care for them leaping on you all the time when you walk into "camp" ("Shut up, Velanna, I got **** to do!"), though it's fine and appropriate occasionally. This would "streamline" the system a bit and give them more control over pacing, but allow them to keep it closer to the original dialogue system. Stomping all over Thedas looking for landmarks to get dialogue will make me ragequit, probably. I hated that stuff.

It also seems highly inappropriate to have a seriously personal conversation in the field, so I'd prefer most of the dialogue going on in whatever the camp equivalent is. So, silence in camp or a generic line (as in Awakening) until the character's party bark triggers while in the field. If you leave someone behind all the time, you're unlikely to get their dialogue, which is kind of appropriate, though it forces you to use everyone equally, which may agitate some.  I know some of Sten's more interesting dialogue is like this.  Relying on the party barks could also produce serious glitches, so there may be a better way to do it.

The dialogue system in Awakening, I didn't care for it, clearly. I felt detached from the new companions, and it wasn't simply the brevity of the game. The interaction felt stiff and stilted.

That.  Exactly.  Awakening wasn't bad per se, but I have no desire to play through it again; unlike Origins which I have happily tromped through a dozen times.  The interaction with the companions is what keeps me going back to Origins.  I want to see all of their possible reactions to everything.  Something inbetween the two systems like Tellervo described would have made Awakening a much more immersive experience for me.

Good points. Accidental convos can be easily dismissed by a "nevemind etc." option. I haven't played Awakenings yet although I pre-ordered it. I'm still waiting for a patch, maybe in vain.

Having a character with a voice set as someone above suggested would be just one more step away from roleplaying. If they implement it, at least it would be nice to have the ability to turn it off. Of course there will be players, who'll complain about not being spoon-fed with some, bluntly put, dumb pink-coloured romance options just because they lack empathy, for instance.

Modifié par UpiH, 17 mai 2010 - 02:52 .

[LyudmilaKatzen]

I vote for the hybrid mentioned here as well: short dialogs while exploring prompted by clicking on a tree or statue and real Origins-style conversations in camp. If the game is going to be a similar length to Origins I think we really need to have more conversations than Awakening offered to not feel like our party members are human/elf/dwarf versions of Dog.

[Terra_Ex]

If it uses the Awakening system as is - I'd have to give it serious consideration as the current implementation is deeply flawed. I personally would like to see parts of the Awakening convo system amalgamated onto DA:O's - that would be the optimal solution. Awakening as it stands, tips a hat to ME2's add-on companions - who lacked even basic dialog wheels and just gave an ambient dialog speech when spoken to, which is not the way forward imo. Lastly, leave the main character unvoiced, imposing one on him/her severely detracts from player immersion.

Modifié par Terra_Ex, 17 mai 2010 - 02:59 .

[errant_knight]

No, I probably wouldn't buy it in that case. I felt very distanced from my companions in Awakening. In general I wasn't anywhere near as involved with them or the story as I was with Origins. It may be that I just didn't find either as compelling, and I think that's a factor with the story, but with the characters, I think the dialogue system and the lack of ability to have spontaneous conversations was the main reason.

[AloraKast]

MistySun wrote...

If DA2 uses the Awakening system of dialogue this will be a big BIG mistake. I hate the Awakening system. Who on earth wants to hunt for a landmark to trigger a dialogue with a party member? 
DAO had it perfect. At least you knew where you would get the dialogue..well most of it anyway.
From what i have read on the forums...DA2 looks like it's going to be disaster.
Bioware had better take note of what people really feel about the dialogue system and make sure it's more like DAO than Awakenings.  
Can you imagine buying DA2 and find there is hardly any party dialogues? This is what made DAO so successsful...the character dialogue. Why make a sequel that lacks that? People will say, oh, i don't want that.
I always had this feeling that DAO would be a one off game...that is there will never be another to equal it in terms od party dialogue...the romances etc.
Seems DA2 won't have much of a story to tell.
Sigh...we need another DAO.

Hear, hear... excellent post MistySun.

Like many have already stated, I love the conversation system in DA:O.  I really like the idea of knowing that I can go to camp and chat with all my companions, get to know them and romance them away from the field, in this relaxing and safe environment.  Running all over Thedas looking for landmarks just to trigger chats with my companions, only to find "Oh shoot, I didn't bring so-and-so with me" I find totally ridiculous... and most importantly of all, it doesn't create that bond with your companions as clearly was done in DA:O. Plus I believe it takes away from the immersion.

Like someone has already pointed out, if pacing is the issue, the DA:O conversation system can be modified to pace what information your companion is willing to reveal to you and when a bit more than was done in DA:O, as opposed to dumping the massive amounts of information straigth away... and I could live with that.  It would make the whole experience even more realistic. Like when certain members join your adventure they are a bit more reserved and don't trust you wholeheartedly right away with their deepest secrets. Yes, this WAS done to some degree in DA:O but that system can be fine tuned a bit more to highten that level of realism.

I love DA:O but like Misty has pointed out, as more time goes by and we see all these puzzle pieces appear before us... well, it doesn't bode well for DA2.  However, I think I shall reserve my judgement and adopt the wait-and-see approach... think that has served me well thus far. So no, I won't be pre-ordering DA2 like a month in advanced nor rushing out to the store at midnight of the release day to get it, but rather wait and see what the fans have to say about it before making up my mind.  But if in fact DA2 adopts the conversation system from Awakening, well, that WILL be a BIG point AGAINST purchasing the game.