337 réponses à ce sujet

[Tana64]

I figured that



A) they cut back on conversation because it was an expansion pack, not a full game; and



because it kind of breaks the immersion when you finish an intense fight, only to be followed up with "Something you need, my dear?" because a blood-spattered Alistair's standing on your spoils.



They should have put more effort into the Vigil conversations though...I heartily enjoyed getting to know my party in DA:O. It really made an impression; as only ME has offered the same depth of relationship development.

[Aesthioseae]

I'd buy it.

[mxw10000]

There are things that both did ok on. But I won't buy it if they do to DA2 what they did to the dialog systems in ME2. In that one, you might as well not even have companions along. Just bring a couple robots, they both had the same amount of ambiant dialog in ME2.

[Vicious]

I'd buy it anyway, but they needf to make the clickies more obvious, I'm not going to run around holding TAB.



But obviously, doing it the Mass Effect 1 way just makes a hell of a lot more sense. You get both clickies and can chitchat.

[Hollingdale]

Suron wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

Suron: Yeah that's like your opinion man and it's stupid. For you guys anything that deviates from the typical WRPG genre is automatically bad. As if though WRPG were the final answer to what perfect games should be. You might not have liked ME2 for some reason but I think you are bull****ting yourself if you claim it is because it's ''supposedly watered down'', either that or you are truly proposing the kind of conservatism and standardised genrebound games that allow for no innovations whatsoever and which if it had been ideologicaly dominant earlier on, say, in the eighties, would've meant that games today were still the same as back then albeit with better graphics or if you go back even further there would've been no games at all.

A poor attitude in short.

you dont' get it do ya.  this isn't the place for it.  stop derailing the thread.  I said I wasn't going to waste my breath arguing with the ADD crowd.  now get lost. (and no I didn't bother reading this, just saw it was directed to me and know the drivel you're spewing)

not only that but you still can't give concrete things to counter my claims..all you can do is insult...which makes your "defense" of Mass Gears Effect War 2 even more hilarious.

Yes, keep telling yourself that, I gave you concrete things (btw it's funny that you accusing me of being inconcrete when your own way of arguing is telling me I have a mental disease and should get the **** off the boards and that everything I write is crap), you ignored them I'm not gonna repeat myself because one indoctrination is just as bad as another.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 05 juillet 2010 - 05:59 .

[Demx]

Simply changing the conversation system won't completely turn me off. Sure, I found dragging each character to a specific spot to gain approval annoying, but it did have the advantage of not missing out on a specific conversation piece. As for my decision for the game, it remains up in the air until I'm able to get more information from Bioware about it.

[Mycrus Ironfist]

combination of both would be nice.



party camp chatter from the OC and clickables in the environment from Awakening.

[Mycrus Ironfist]

Hollingdale wrote...

Suron wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

Suron: Yeah that's like your opinion man and it's stupid. For you guys anything that deviates from the typical WRPG genre is automatically bad. As if though WRPG were the final answer to what perfect games should be. You might not have liked ME2 for some reason but I think you are bull****ting yourself if you claim it is because it's ''supposedly watered down'', either that or you are truly proposing the kind of conservatism and standardised genrebound games that allow for no innovations whatsoever and which if it had been ideologicaly dominant earlier on, say, in the eighties, would've meant that games today were still the same as back then albeit with better graphics or if you go back even further there would've been no games at all.

A poor attitude in short.

you dont' get it do ya.  this isn't the place for it.  stop derailing the thread.  I said I wasn't going to waste my breath arguing with the ADD crowd.  now get lost. (and no I didn't bother reading this, just saw it was directed to me and know the drivel you're spewing)

not only that but you still can't give concrete things to counter my claims..all you can do is insult...which makes your "defense" of Mass Gears Effect War 2 even more hilarious.

Yes, keep telling yourself that, I gave you concrete things (btw it's funny that you accusing me of being inconcrete when your own way of arguing is telling me I have a mental disease and should get the **** off the boards and that everything I write is crap), you ignored them I'm not gonna repeat myself because one indoctrination is just as bad as another.

register the game... anything you say is moot if you don't do it.

[NKKKK]

Mycrus Ironfist wrote...

combination of both would be nice.

party camp chatter from the OC and clickables in the environment from Awakening.

That's not cost effective.

[FieryDove]

Hollingdale wrote...


Yes, keep telling yourself that, (snip)

Some People love to argue and prove to others that they are wrong. Even in a topic that is based on opinions...
Can't we all just play nice in the sandbox??

[TheChinstrap]

i would like a combination of the two types of conversation, but with much less of the awakening variety. it kind of annoyed me that i couldnt talk to people at all unless they liked me enough, or if i had a stray cat stuffed in my pants. Also i think i missed out on a few of the conversation triggers in awakening, and that makes me a sad panda

[Giggles_Manically]

If DA2 will only have Awakenings System then this will be me:

[ITSSEXYTIME]

Keep in mind I have not played Awakening, from what I hear the system seems better.



The DA:O system (and by extension the system in most every other Bioware game) is contrived, and most players will miss dialogue entirely. It requires you to go back and talk to your party members looking for new options every once in a while (usually every major story event in games like KOTOR or Mass Effect 1) or every time you gain significant influence in DA:O.



The DA:A system will give you dialogue as you progress through the game via landmarks. Certainly it is not a perfect system, but I'm glad Bioware is experimenting. They've been long overdue to change SOMETHING with the way they dole out dialogue, and even if this system isn't the best I still welcome the experimentation.



Certainly the ideal system would allow you to question your party members at any time, but they need to make it more clear when more dialogue is available. Having a system where an event in the world triggers more dialogue would be the best way to do this, rather than the current convoluted system reliant on story progress or influence.



Influence is not an entirely bad system though and it has it's place (Such as whether or not a party member will teach you a specialization, or whether certain party members may betray you and what not) but it doesn't work for doling out dialogue.



My ideal system would be one that allows you to question your companions at anytime but dialogue options are unlocked in the world as you progress. EG Character X mentions something briefly in the world and when you go back to camp you can talk to them about it. There was some of this in DA:O particularly concerning party member side quest but I found the whole gift giving so I can experience all my party member has to offer dialogue wise to be contradictory to the role playing side of the game: Why should I stick true to my character and act they way they would when doing so means I won't be able to fully explore a party members dialogue? Hell, even worse it doesn't even matter... Morrigan can disapprove as much as she wants but as long as you give her some nice necklaces and maybe a golden mirror she'll absolutely adore you.



The DA:A system is flawed, but the DA:O system is dated and contrived to the point of taking away from the experience.

[Woodstock-TC]

i dont like the awakening system at all. neither can you sit in the camp and talk with the people, nor do you feel to be really in game withthe possibility to interact. Heck come on, i want to discuss with Oghren about his past and all i can do is to click on the Beer stuff behind him  to follow than his triggered Beer&Ale discussion ? Lame.
only triggered dialogues are a big step back and i will strongly consider buying da2 although i a a huge fan of dao. i will surely wait first for user reviews.
DOA brought me back to enjoy RPG and to try to play a game from the character perspective rather than some shooter like game. i can find triggered discussions in nearly all shooter games nowdays so i hardly doubt DA2 will be in that case something to look forward to.
It was such a pleasure beside all fighting and drama to enter the character(lets take a city elf as example) and - if you want - learn about the beauty of the world through lelianas story or get a warm mentor as Wynne which shows the poor little non educated elf additional perspectives. It was that fantasy aspect of the game that made up most of my motivation to replay.
Additionally in DAO i enjoyed being able to trigger anytime a discussion. Heck, even triggering different reactions like kissing Allistar for fun in public as example was possible, resulting in funny dialogues.
In DAA you get just insulted if you click on them or get some smart-ass comment. At the end of DAA i didnt cared at all about the party, nor about my character. Unthinkable in DAO but sad truth in DAA as interaction and charcter development was from my viewpoint a complete failure.

Last but not least most characters and interaction in DAA feels "comic style". There lacks any depth (see Oghren who is behaving like a Kids-Comic Dwarf) or multilaterality which some of DAO characters features (say Leliana, Morrigan, Allistar, Anora and Logain). As i gues spart of the franchise indeed took off in the comic style direction alienating some fans like myself.

All in all, i replayed DAO so far 5 times with different chars and developments mostly exactly because the world around you reacts partially different to your character. DAA i played once through and i am not feeling any driver at all to replay it.

greetings,
wood

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 06 juillet 2010 - 06:03 .

[instantdeath999]

I apologize for my apparent ignorance, but can anyone explain to me the fundamental differences between the Origins and Awakening dialogue system? Origins seems a lot more detailed and dynamic.

EDIT: Are you guys talking about the conversation system at camp?  If so, I agree.  I really wish I could talk to my team members after a mission.

Modifié par instantdeath999, 06 juillet 2010 - 08:32 .

[Lillymon]

I think I would, however, I would miss the "'old" conversations. I would prefer an open world and online mode though!

[goldrc4]

The Awakening conversation system was very annoying.
I'll admit that the Origins system has its faults, but having to find specific landmarks to talk to party members?

where was the logic in that

Modifié par goldrc4, 06 juillet 2010 - 08:51 .

[Arttis]

FieryDove wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...


Yes, keep telling yourself that, (snip)

Some People love to argue and prove to others that they are wrong. Even in a topic that is based on opinions...
Can't we all just play nice in the sandbox??

That depends if people can admit their wrong for the sake of peace.Or ignore.
I would buy it.Convo is not a big part of the game.I enjoyed ME2.

[Ferah84]

I'm looking forward to DA2 and I am hoping they have the conversation system as in Origins. I really love Origins and I did enjoy playing Awakening but I did find it a little fast paced mainly because you were unable to really get to know your companions. I am really hoping that DA2 will keep the system of DAO

[Mycrus Ironfist]

NKKKK wrote...

Mycrus Ironfist wrote...

combination of both would be nice.

party camp chatter from the OC and clickables in the environment from Awakening.

That's not cost effective.

since the cost for polygons was high, dragon age should have been made in sierra bitmap style like king's quest...

[Hollingdale]

Arttis wrote...

FieryDove wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...


Yes, keep telling yourself that, (snip)

Some People love to argue and prove to others that they are wrong. Even in a topic that is based on opinions...
Can't we all just play nice in the sandbox??

That depends if people can admit their wrong for the sake of peace.Or ignore.
I would buy it.Convo is not a big part of the game.I enjoyed ME2.

The thing is it's silly to say Mass Effect 2 sucks because it lacks a lot of the elements present in classical WRPG's when it is a shooter/rpg hybrid in the same way as it is silly to say that apples suck because they are not oranges. But this just doesn't come through to people because all they eat are apples and thus when they are given oranges they scream ''But this isn't green and it isn't crunchy I love green and crunchy therefore this sucks!''. Now when another person who eats both apples and oranges tries to explain that oranges, while they are indeed neither green nor crunchy, are instead orange and juicy which can also be very nice what does the apple-eater reply in this case?

''You have ADD get the **** out of this thread all you write is **** oranges suck because they are not green and crunchy, apples rule''

It was after this that I wrote ''Yes, keep telling yourself that''.
But okay I'll try to be reasonable: If you only like apples (which I have no issues with) and you hate Oranges and it works for you then that's cool. But don't go bashing other peoples Oranges just because they aren't your Apples.

[FieryDove]

Hollingdale wrote...


It was after this that I wrote ''Yes, keep telling yourself that''.
But okay I'll try to be reasonable: If you only like apples (which I have no issues with) and you hate Oranges and it works for you then that's cool. But don't go bashing other peoples Oranges just because they aren't your Apples.

If ME1 was an apple and ME2 is an orange sure people will have problems with that. Same will go with DA1 and DA2.

I'm all for trying out new ideas in games, just not gutting base required elements. (Yes, my opinion only) Story and companion conversations/back-stories are a huge draw for me.

And hontestly the people who created ME2 was sure everyone would *love* planet scanning to death. Kinda worries me.

[Leon Evelake]

And here i thought this thread was dead.

i am surprised that no one has mentioned that the new dlc will use the mass effect style system.. since it focuses on a preestablished character i think thats fine, despite that i expected to come back and find people saying that would be used in 2.

[ITSSEXYTIME]

After playing a fair bit of Awakening for myself, I have no issue with the new conversation system. My only complaint is that it's slightly more difficult to see EVERY dialogue option on every party member, although it wasn't exactly a cakewalk in Origins either. (You could see a fair bit just talking in camp though)



I prefer the Awakening system though, dialogue doesn't feel like "You like me a bit more so I can ask you more questions" and you learn about the character just by hearing their comments in the world and the occassional world prompt or Keep conversation. Gifts are also handled much better too, as is approval.



Complaints such as "I don't feel like I really developed a bond with the new characters" or "Conversations in Awakening are less involved than in Origins" seem entirely unfounded to me. So far I really like all the new party members. (although Oghren is still Oghren... I don't hate him but I don't much like him either)



So the tl,dr version is:



The Awakening system is worse if you want to experience all the party members in one playthrough rather than just your merry band you use for combat, while the system is better for immersion and gameplay reasons. (Far less contrived, I find myself giving party members gifts because I want them to like me, not that I just want to unlock the next plot flag)



Party banter is also better in Awakening. In the first game it was mostly meant to be humorous while Awakening's banter actually involves character development. Party members actually develop their own interactions with each other and they actually seem to begin to respect/like/hate each other more as the dialogs continue. In Origins, I felt like the Alistair/Morrigan relationship was pretty much static the entire game, or the Leiliana/Zevran one, or the Sten/Alistair one etc... they were written to be entertaining but I didn't feel like the party members actually changed how they interacted with each other... it was just different jokes and sometimes continued conversations from before.



I hope Bioware doesn't abandon the Awakening ideas entirely, but I do think that they're going to have to make some tweaks to appease people who preferred the DA:O system.