337 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerdage]

Yep. I'd like more dialogue but the system itself was fine, but perhaps environment triggers should start conversations automatically, that or I'll just weigh the tab key down with blu-tack and save myself the trouble.

[TheMadCat]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Awakening convo system >>>>> DAO convo system. I would prefer the new system to the old. It's better than having to go character to character to character to character looking for new things to say. There HAS to be some sort of animation cue that the character sees something to talk about rather than a blinking light.

So in other words you didn't have a problem with the previous system, you just didn't like the fact there was no visual marker to dictate new dialogue was available.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TheMadCat wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Awakening convo system >>>>> DAO convo system. I would prefer the new system to the old. It's better than having to go character to character to character to character looking for new things to say. There HAS to be some sort of animation cue that the character sees something to talk about rather than a blinking light.

So in other words you didn't have a problem with the previous system, you just didn't like the fact there was no visual marker to dictate new dialogue was available.

Nope.  I liked that conversations were more driven by items and objects in the world rather than having to click on the character constantly in came after every event.  If Leliana sighed as you passed a priest or Alistair stared at something as you ran by... that would be a better clue that the character had something to say about the world or to say in general than going to camp and clicking clicking clicking.

[Hollingdale]

mousestalker wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

If it retains the problems that the Awakenings system had (the amount of dialogue being very sparse and the TAB thingy and the fact that you couldn't talk to people at all while travelling or in your keep), which I highly doubt, then my enthusiasm will be severely lowered.

But if it's the same retarded system as in Origins where you can be best friends with everyone by means of gifts and where the majority of all conversations seem available from scratch and come in form of the PC asking a ton of ****ing questions like some goddamn private detective then I'll be equally displeased.

Naturally a hybrid of the two would be the best way to go.

So you want a roleplaying game without any roleplaying. Fascinating.

Not seeing how you show an alternative to the two systems here. 

If you stop strawmanning you might not be so blind as to prevent you from seeing one.

I'll elaborate for you but don't bother responding if it's gonna be along the lines of ''So you want a roleplaying game with no roleplaying?''.  Because next time I will just answer: No.

Almost all gifts need to go, I don't mind the gifts that have story to them however (such as Flemeths black book or the antivan leather boots that you can give to Zevran), but the fact is that the vast majority of all gifts givings are more remiscient to handling chocolate to children in order for them to like you. Only the cast of Dragon Age are not children and as such small treats should hardly determine whether they like someone or not.

If you character for example is a murderous psychotic swine the good folk will still love you if you just leave them in camp and show up with gifts now and then. Nevermind the blood on your hands.

Indeed it's beyound silly but I get the feeling that many on theese boards actually want the ability to have all characters (including the ones they never use or talk to out of camp but rather just use as a dump for gifts) love them. Why I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, in Origins aswell as Awakenings there's too little response from characters regarding ongoing events, I want more conversations to take place while I'm actually doing things. The fact that you can look at objects and garner responses from certain party members in Awakenings is certainly an improvement but Bioware were of course wrong to think it can replace party dialogue entirely.

To sum it all up, I'm tired of all the bashing the Awakenings system is recieving, people can't seem to accept the fact that even if it had an Origins like system it still wouldn't have nearly as much dialogue as Origins simply due to it being and expansion with way less development time behind it and not a full feature. This is more so annoying because the same people are blind to the many problems that Origins had, praising it blindly while overly bashing Awakenings (despite it having a more realistic and responsive conversation system).

Naturally a mix of the two is to be preffered and gifts of no story value need to be removed entirely. You can't have a system where characters will love you even if you dont use them, and you can't have a system with no camp dialogue at all.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 18 mai 2010 - 05:52 .

[TheMadCat]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Awakening convo system >>>>> DAO convo system. I would prefer the new system to the old. It's better than having to go character to character to character to character looking for new things to say. There HAS to be some sort of animation cue that the character sees something to talk about rather than a blinking light.

So in other words you didn't have a problem with the previous system, you just didn't like the fact there was no visual marker to dictate new dialogue was available.

Nope.  I liked that conversations were more driven by items and objects in the world rather than having to click on the character constantly in came after every event.  If Leliana sighed as you passed a priest or Alistair stared at something as you ran by... that would be a better clue that the character had something to say about the world or to say in general than going to camp and clicking clicking clicking.

And that would work well for conversations that make since while in the field. But wouldn't it be odd for say, Alistair to break out about how he slept with the dogs while you're in the middle of doing something simply because you cross a Marbari hound?

[sonofalich]

no, it would kill the whole rpg experience for me. the long-winded speeches helped create the story for me.

[bzombo]

i would buy da2 if it uses awakening's conversation system. spamming for dialog is what dao is. although i didn't mind spamming for dialog, i do think it could use improvement. awakening is not the perfect solution, but i find it better than dao. maybe bioware is looking to mix awakening's system with some new ideas. i'm sure there will be more dialog in da2 than awakening, but why is different automatically bad?

people who say awakening's story wasn't as deep and partly due to the dialog needs to remember daa was a 20 hour expansion and dao was an 80 hour full game. maybe that difference is why the story and characters were not as deep.

[bzombo]

TheMadCat wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Awakening convo system >>>>> DAO convo system. I would prefer the new system to the old. It's better than having to go character to character to character to character looking for new things to say. There HAS to be some sort of animation cue that the character sees something to talk about rather than a blinking light.

So in other words you didn't have a problem with the previous system, you just didn't like the fact there was no visual marker to dictate new dialogue was available.

Nope.  I liked that conversations were more driven by items and objects in the world rather than having to click on the character constantly in came after every event.  If Leliana sighed as you passed a priest or Alistair stared at something as you ran by... that would be a better clue that the character had something to say about the world or to say in general than going to camp and clicking clicking clicking.

And that would work well for conversations that make since while in the field. But wouldn't it be odd for say, Alistair to break out about how he slept with the dogs while you're in the middle of doing something simply because you cross a Marbari hound?

yes, it would be stupid to have conversations out of the blue because an object was passed, but it is equally ridiculous to spam someone in camp for dialog just for the hell of it. a mixing of awakening with something else would probably make things more logical and still give some camp dialog. maybe dialog should be blocked until certain plot points are passed. in some ways origins did that well, but sometimes you could just spam the mouse button to get someone to talk about nothing for 10 minutes.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TheMadCat wrote...
And that would work well for conversations
that make since while in the field. But wouldn't it be odd for say,
Alistair to break out about how he slept with the dogs while you're in
the middle of doing something simply because you cross a Marbari hound?

Actually, no I don't think so.  If I'm with Wynne and we're tromping through a Amarinthine, she could look up at a tree and have an audio clip of her muttering something about how that tree reminded her of one her old apprentice like to sit under while reading.  Then the player would know to search for a clickable object, launching a dialogue, which would be the standard "STFUY Grandma" or "We're on a job, be quick" or "Oh Wynne, I wuve your stories!"  Maybe there could be a "Tell me about that later" option for the camp-clickers. 

I'd prefer the expository character bits to be tied to the free roaming.  That way you never know what you're going to hear from your mans.

[Rinkusu]

Awakenings system should be used only in major parts of interaction (beggining party quests and stuff), IF they decide to use it, but most of the chat has to be in DAO system otherwise one of the best aspects of the game is gone.

There's few things i like more than chatting with my "friends", it makes them look like something important for me and the story than just a group of annoying dolls.



Either that or they have to make one heck of a revamp to make it work. I'll wayt and see but if i'ts true it will not be on my "first day" shopping list.

[Leon Evelake]

Hollingdale wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

If it retains the problems that the Awakenings system had (the amount of dialogue being very sparse and the TAB thingy and the fact that you couldn't talk to people at all while travelling or in your keep), which I highly doubt, then my enthusiasm will be severely lowered.

But if it's the same retarded system as in Origins where you can be best friends with everyone by means of gifts and where the majority of all conversations seem available from scratch and come in form of the PC asking a ton of ****ing questions like some goddamn private detective then I'll be equally displeased.

Naturally a hybrid of the two would be the best way to go.

So you want a roleplaying game without any roleplaying. Fascinating.

Not seeing how you show an alternative to the two systems here. 

If you stop strawmanning you might not be so blind as to prevent you from seeing one.

I'll elaborate for you but don't bother responding if it's gonna be along the lines of ''So you want a roleplaying game with no roleplaying?''.  Because next time I will just answer: No.

Almost all gifts need to go, I don't mind the gifts that have story to them however (such as Flemeths black book or the antivan leather boots that you can give to Zevran), but the fact is that the vast majority of all gifts givings are more remiscient to handling chocolate to children in order for them to like you. Only the cast of Dragon Age are not children and as such small treats should hardly determine whether they like someone or not.

If you character for example is a murderous psychotic swine the good folk will still love you if you just leave them in camp and show up with gifts now and then. Nevermind the blood on your hands.

Indeed it's beyound silly but I get the feeling that many on theese boards actually want the ability to have all characters (including the ones they never use or talk to out of camp but rather just use as a dump for gifts) love them. Why I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, in Origins aswell as Awakenings there's too little response from characters regarding ongoing events, I want more conversations to take place while I'm actually doing things. The fact that you can look at objects and garner responses from certain party members in Awakenings is certainly an improvement but Bioware were of course wrong to think it can replace party dialogue entirely.

To sum it all up, I'm tired of all the bashing the Awakenings system is recieving, people can't seem to accept the fact that even if it had an Origins like system it still wouldn't have nearly as much dialogue as Origins simply due to it being and expansion with way less development time behind it and not a full feature. This is more so annoying because the same people are blind to the many problems that Origins had, praising it blindly while overly bashing Awakenings (despite it having a more realistic and responsive conversation system).

Naturally a mix of the two is to be preffered and gifts of no story value need to be removed entirely. You can't have a system where characters will love you even if you dont use them, and you can't have a system with no camp dialogue at all.

Your missing the point and assuming people who have different opinions than yours are automatically dumb.  We realize that one reason awakening had less dialogue was because it had less development time.  The problem is that there was nothing more " realistic and responsive" about clicking on trees to get responses, being able to initiate conversation and picking what to say is more natural and gives you the ability to define your characters personality while learning about your party members, you don't have to ask a tone of questions if you don't want , if you want you could be dismissive and rude or pry in to personal matters.  Your overlooking that the developers have said that the one of the developers said that the original system was not cost effective and the only way the new one could be more cost effective is if there is less dialogue. You accuse people of over bashing the awakening system but then seem overly critical on the gift system, it would be fine to only have the story ones but having the generic ones is not really a detriment expect for the ones you could buy in bulk with the feastday expansion.

Furthermore you mention that people should not have all the party like them if any are left at camp, I disagree as others have said I should not have to replay the game just to get certain party members to like me it should be based purely on your decisions and discussions.  and if you never used certain people In origins you did miss out on things, I don't think you could get sten to like you without using him.  Also consider that many people myself included rotated whom the took with them the awakening system would still screw us unless we went location to location looking for items to click on.

I do agree that I wish there were more times where you could talk about what has recently transpired.

[JamieCOTC]

No. IF DA2 has the Awakening dialog system, I could see myself buying a copy just to burn it. That's how much I hated the system.



A combination of the new and old system would be fine and I wouldn't mind that. The ultimate downside to the old system is that you can run out of dialogue fairly quickly, especially w/ Allister and Morrigan. Cure - Don't design the dialog that way. Make it trigger at different times, after different quests are completed, whatever. And by all means through in some "Awakening style" triggers along the way.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As I understand it, the supposed problem with the DAO dialogue system was that people abused it, and then complained that the conversations were unnatural.

Newsflash. Roleplaying games don't work if you don't roleplay in them.

That said, I haven't played Awakenings (and am not likely to given that installing it changes how DAO plays), so I don't actually know what the changes are.

[DhammaWings]

For me it's not a question of whether I'd buy Dragon Age 2 (assuming it'll even be released); because likely I would buy it regardless. That said, I thought the Awakening conversation system sucked big time.

[Sylvius the Mad]

If the problem they were trying to solve with the Awakening system was that companion dialogue was too expensive, I'd suggest simply returning to BG-style companions who had a lot less to say.

Changing the mechanics of dialogue for a select group of people would be horribly damaging to the setting (why do some people behave one way and the rest another), while simply limiting the amount of dialogue available would blend in more.

[Patriciachr34]

I think the Awakenings system lacked immersion. Yes we get some good conversations, but we never get to just chat. I will throw my hand up with the hybrid system. The only thing that was missing from Origins were comments on major events that affected the PC. Something akin to the CE where Alistair is shocked that she was married. The HN should have had some sort of comment after killing Howe, the man that killed her family. There should also have been some interaction with the dwarf pc about Orzamar when they went back and the dalish pc when they met the clan in the Brecilian Forest. Something like this coupled with the point of interest areas would be nice for the expansion.

[Hollingdale]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As I understand it, the supposed problem with the DAO dialogue system was that people abused it, and then complained that the conversations were unnatural.
Newsflash. Roleplaying games don't work if you don't roleplay in them.
That said, I haven't played Awakenings (and am not likely to given that installing it changes how DAO plays), so I don't actually know what the changes are.

The fact that I didn't get characters to like me by showering them with pretty trinkets doesn't change the fact that I know that they would like someone who did so just as much as they did me who got it by roleplaying so no.

[Hollingdale]

Leon Evelake wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

If it retains the problems that the Awakenings system had (the amount of dialogue being very sparse and the TAB thingy and the fact that you couldn't talk to people at all while travelling or in your keep), which I highly doubt, then my enthusiasm will be severely lowered.

But if it's the same retarded system as in Origins where you can be best friends with everyone by means of gifts and where the majority of all conversations seem available from scratch and come in form of the PC asking a ton of ****ing questions like some goddamn private detective then I'll be equally displeased.

Naturally a hybrid of the two would be the best way to go.

So you want a roleplaying game without any roleplaying. Fascinating.

Not seeing how you show an alternative to the two systems here. 

If you stop strawmanning you might not be so blind as to prevent you from seeing one.

I'll elaborate for you but don't bother responding if it's gonna be along the lines of ''So you want a roleplaying game with no roleplaying?''.  Because next time I will just answer: No.

Almost all gifts need to go, I don't mind the gifts that have story to them however (such as Flemeths black book or the antivan leather boots that you can give to Zevran), but the fact is that the vast majority of all gifts givings are more remiscient to handling chocolate to children in order for them to like you. Only the cast of Dragon Age are not children and as such small treats should hardly determine whether they like someone or not.

If you character for example is a murderous psychotic swine the good folk will still love you if you just leave them in camp and show up with gifts now and then. Nevermind the blood on your hands.

Indeed it's beyound silly but I get the feeling that many on theese boards actually want the ability to have all characters (including the ones they never use or talk to out of camp but rather just use as a dump for gifts) love them. Why I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, in Origins aswell as Awakenings there's too little response from characters regarding ongoing events, I want more conversations to take place while I'm actually doing things. The fact that you can look at objects and garner responses from certain party members in Awakenings is certainly an improvement but Bioware were of course wrong to think it can replace party dialogue entirely.

To sum it all up, I'm tired of all the bashing the Awakenings system is recieving, people can't seem to accept the fact that even if it had an Origins like system it still wouldn't have nearly as much dialogue as Origins simply due to it being and expansion with way less development time behind it and not a full feature. This is more so annoying because the same people are blind to the many problems that Origins had, praising it blindly while overly bashing Awakenings (despite it having a more realistic and responsive conversation system).

Naturally a mix of the two is to be preffered and gifts of no story value need to be removed entirely. You can't have a system where characters will love you even if you dont use them, and you can't have a system with no camp dialogue at all.

Your missing the point and assuming people who have different opinions than yours are automatically dumb.  We realize that one reason awakening had less dialogue was because it had less development time.  The problem is that there was nothing more " realistic and responsive" about clicking on trees to get responses, being able to initiate conversation and picking what to say is more natural and gives you the ability to define your characters personality while learning about your party members, you don't have to ask a tone of questions if you don't want , if you want you could be dismissive and rude or pry in to personal matters.  Your overlooking that the developers have said that the one of the developers said that the original system was not cost effective and the only way the new one could be more cost effective is if there is less dialogue. You accuse people of over bashing the awakening system but then seem overly critical on the gift system, it would be fine to only have the story ones but having the generic ones is not really a detriment expect for the ones you could buy in bulk with the feastday expansion.

Furthermore you mention that people should not have all the party like them if any are left at camp, I disagree as others have said I should not have to replay the game just to get certain party members to like me it should be based purely on your decisions and discussions.  and if you never used certain people In origins you did miss out on things, I don't think you could get sten to like you without using him.  Also consider that many people myself included rotated whom the took with them the awakening system would still screw us unless we went location to location looking for items to click on.

I do agree that I wish there were more times where you could talk about what has recently transpired.

Meh I don't think youre all stupid I just strongly dislike responses along the lines off ''So you think that *insert stupid thing that I dont think here*'' hence the unfriendly tone.

Admittedly the clicking part is retarded, imo scenes should trigger automatically or be very obvious. Your point about defining personality is sort of irrelevant because that can be done just aswell in the Awakenings system.

Another thing about Origins is too much dialogue is available from start, it's much funnier imo if you get talk about what happened after each mission and if you unlock more and more dialogue piece by piece rather than get half a novel to plow through right from the start.

Furthermore how can you like the fact that everyone likes you in one playthrough when it's just not believable? If your are an evil bastard who kills people and commits acts of unspeakable wickedness then the good guys should love you because you give them little pretty gifts? This I simply do not understand and for me it seriously hurts the believability of the game. Sylvius pointed to a solution but it doesn't really work imo. Still I seem to be quite alone in having theese opinions so perhaps it's not really an issue.

On a sidenote though: I do think that one should have access to another party slot in Dragon Age, four simply isn't enough especially when youre forced to bring a rogue (unless you play one) to unlock chests.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hollingdale wrote...

The fact that I didn't get characters to like me by showering them with pretty trinkets doesn't change the fact that I know that they would like someone who did so just as much as they did me who got it by roleplaying so no.

The approval system is a different issue entirely.  There's no need to keep DAO's approval system, regardless of what dialogue system we use.

[Vaeliorin]

I'd definitely buy it. I think the Awakenings dialogue system did a better job of making the NPCs seem like real people. Admittedly, a mixture of the two would be best, but if I had to pick one or the other, I'd go with the Awakenings system.

[Leon Evelake]

Hollingdale wrote...

Leon Evelake wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

If it retains the problems that the Awakenings system had (the amount of dialogue being very sparse and the TAB thingy and the fact that you couldn't talk to people at all while travelling or in your keep), which I highly doubt, then my enthusiasm will be severely lowered.

But if it's the same retarded system as in Origins where you can be best friends with everyone by means of gifts and where the majority of all conversations seem available from scratch and come in form of the PC asking a ton of ****ing questions like some goddamn private detective then I'll be equally displeased.

Naturally a hybrid of the two would be the best way to go.

So you want a roleplaying game without any roleplaying. Fascinating.

Not seeing how you show an alternative to the two systems here. 

If you stop strawmanning you might not be so blind as to prevent you from seeing one.

I'll elaborate for you but don't bother responding if it's gonna be along the lines of ''So you want a roleplaying game with no roleplaying?''.  Because next time I will just answer: No.

Almost all gifts need to go, I don't mind the gifts that have story to them however (such as Flemeths black book or the antivan leather boots that you can give to Zevran), but the fact is that the vast majority of all gifts givings are more remiscient to handling chocolate to children in order for them to like you. Only the cast of Dragon Age are not children and as such small treats should hardly determine whether they like someone or not.

If you character for example is a murderous psychotic swine the good folk will still love you if you just leave them in camp and show up with gifts now and then. Nevermind the blood on your hands.

Indeed it's beyound silly but I get the feeling that many on theese boards actually want the ability to have all characters (including the ones they never use or talk to out of camp but rather just use as a dump for gifts) love them. Why I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, in Origins aswell as Awakenings there's too little response from characters regarding ongoing events, I want more conversations to take place while I'm actually doing things. The fact that you can look at objects and garner responses from certain party members in Awakenings is certainly an improvement but Bioware were of course wrong to think it can replace party dialogue entirely.

To sum it all up, I'm tired of all the bashing the Awakenings system is recieving, people can't seem to accept the fact that even if it had an Origins like system it still wouldn't have nearly as much dialogue as Origins simply due to it being and expansion with way less development time behind it and not a full feature. This is more so annoying because the same people are blind to the many problems that Origins had, praising it blindly while overly bashing Awakenings (despite it having a more realistic and responsive conversation system).

Naturally a mix of the two is to be preffered and gifts of no story value need to be removed entirely. You can't have a system where characters will love you even if you dont use them, and you can't have a system with no camp dialogue at all.

Your missing the point and assuming people who have different opinions than yours are automatically dumb.  We realize that one reason awakening had less dialogue was because it had less development time.  The problem is that there was nothing more " realistic and responsive" about clicking on trees to get responses, being able to initiate conversation and picking what to say is more natural and gives you the ability to define your characters personality while learning about your party members, you don't have to ask a tone of questions if you don't want , if you want you could be dismissive and rude or pry in to personal matters.  Your overlooking that the developers have said that the one of the developers said that the original system was not cost effective and the only way the new one could be more cost effective is if there is less dialogue. You accuse people of over bashing the awakening system but then seem overly critical on the gift system, it would be fine to only have the story ones but having the generic ones is not really a detriment expect for the ones you could buy in bulk with the feastday expansion.

Furthermore you mention that people should not have all the party like them if any are left at camp, I disagree as others have said I should not have to replay the game just to get certain party members to like me it should be based purely on your decisions and discussions.  and if you never used certain people In origins you did miss out on things, I don't think you could get sten to like you without using him.  Also consider that many people myself included rotated whom the took with them the awakening system would still screw us unless we went location to location looking for items to click on.

I do agree that I wish there were more times where you could talk about what has recently transpired.

Meh I don't think youre all stupid I just strongly dislike responses along the lines off ''So you think that *insert stupid thing that I dont think here*'' hence the unfriendly tone.

Admittedly the clicking part is retarded, imo scenes should trigger automatically or be very obvious. Your point about defining personality is sort of irrelevant because that can be done just aswell in the Awakenings system.

Another thing about Origins is too much dialogue is available from start, it's much funnier imo if you get talk about what happened after each mission and if you unlock more and more dialogue piece by piece rather than get half a novel to plow through right from the start.

Furthermore how can you like the fact that everyone likes you in one playthrough when it's just not believable? If your are an evil bastard who kills people and commits acts of unspeakable wickedness then the good guys should love you because you give them little pretty gifts? This I simply do not understand and for me it seriously hurts the believability of the game. Sylvius pointed to a solution but it doesn't really work imo. Still I seem to be quite alone in having theese opinions so perhaps it's not really an issue.

On a sidenote though: I do think that one should have access to another party slot in Dragon Age, four simply isn't enough especially when youre forced to bring a rogue (unless you play one) to unlock chests.

I said that  approval should be base on your actions and conversations thus if evil some would not be happy, I think it is perfectly reasonable to have them all like in one playthrough if you really work for it I don't think it should be easy (and I don't think it too easy in origins) and I seriously dislike the ideal of my choices being reduced fro one game to the next.  And it is perfectly realistic considering that you would spent a significant amount of time around those characters at camp, castles or wherever. spacing out the dialogue seems like decent choice if not over done.

And defining character does not work to nearly the same degree in the wakening system, the conversations that pop up are brief and gave you little chance for input.   They are completely reactive where in origins you initiated and were in somewhat control, a massively expanded and tweaked may in that specific regard work but the system as is would not.

[yummysoap]

Hollingdale wrote...

mousestalker wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

If it retains the problems that the Awakenings system had (the amount of dialogue being very sparse and the TAB thingy and the fact that you couldn't talk to people at all while travelling or in your keep), which I highly doubt, then my enthusiasm will be severely lowered.

But if it's the same retarded system as in Origins where you can be best friends with everyone by means of gifts and where the majority of all conversations seem available from scratch and come in form of the PC asking a ton of ****ing questions like some goddamn private detective then I'll be equally displeased.

Naturally a hybrid of the two would be the best way to go.

So you want a roleplaying game without any roleplaying. Fascinating.

Not seeing how you show an alternative to the two systems here. 

If you stop strawmanning you might not be so blind as to prevent you from seeing one.

I'll elaborate for you but don't bother responding if it's gonna be along the lines of ''So you want a roleplaying game with no roleplaying?''.  Because next time I will just answer: No.

Almost all gifts need to go, I don't mind the gifts that have story to them however (such as Flemeths black book or the antivan leather boots that you can give to Zevran), but the fact is that the vast majority of all gifts givings are more remiscient to handling chocolate to children in order for them to like you. Only the cast of Dragon Age are not children and as such small treats should hardly determine whether they like someone or not.

If you character for example is a murderous psychotic swine the good folk will still love you if you just leave them in camp and show up with gifts now and then. Nevermind the blood on your hands.

Indeed it's beyound silly but I get the feeling that many on theese boards actually want the ability to have all characters (including the ones they never use or talk to out of camp but rather just use as a dump for gifts) love them. Why I cannot fathom.

Furthermore, in Origins aswell as Awakenings there's too little response from characters regarding ongoing events, I want more conversations to take place while I'm actually doing things. The fact that you can look at objects and garner responses from certain party members in Awakenings is certainly an improvement but Bioware were of course wrong to think it can replace party dialogue entirely.

To sum it all up, I'm tired of all the bashing the Awakenings system is recieving, people can't seem to accept the fact that even if it had an Origins like system it still wouldn't have nearly as much dialogue as Origins simply due to it being and expansion with way less development time behind it and not a full feature. This is more so annoying because the same people are blind to the many problems that Origins had, praising it blindly while overly bashing Awakenings (despite it having a more realistic and responsive conversation system).

Naturally a mix of the two is to be preffered and gifts of no story value need to be removed entirely. You can't have a system where characters will love you even if you dont use them, and you can't have a system with no camp dialogue at all.

You make very good points, despite the fact that I hate the Awakening system with a passion.

My main issue is simply that I don't think I should have to walk passed a tree in order to ask someone something. It doesn't strike me as realistic or flowing at all. On the other side of the coin, I don't think that you should be able to spam gifts and endless convo to become bff's with alistair overnight, so I very much agree with you there.

I think the whole approves/disapproves system needs a massive rework for the next game. There needs to be more progressive conversation that becomes more intimate as the time goes on, and I think it needs to be very hard to +100 all the companions in one playthrough. In DA, you can do something that a companion will consider fundamentally evil, and then offer them a silver pendant back at camp and everything's fine and dandy.

You shouldn't be able to ask everyone everything immediately, either. If some fairly new acquaintance popped up and asked me every intimate detail of my life in one night I wouldn't exactly be endeared to him - things should be locked out until time goes by, maybe unlocked by certain events.

[Ash Wind]

I didn't care for the Awakening dialogue system, though it wouldn't necessarily preclude me from buying DA:2.
The Awakenings system lacked a sense of flow and timing. Oh there's a tree... I 'have' to talk to someone. Joy. That system is forced and uninteresting. Conversations feel scripted (and of course they are, but now they are telling me when and where too.... boring) and it makes me play the dev’s game, not my game.

The original system worked better IMO. Sure it had flaws, though in most cases the timing of conversations was at my disposal. Sometimes I would go deep into the action of the game before I would stop at camp and start to pry.

In the real world, you meet someone, start talking about common ground, and through that learn more about the person and can ask better questions. Now granted conversations in game are more controlled, and there are finite resources you can spend, but the Origins system did a much better job of capturing the feel of real conversations.

Next time you're out where people are, stare at an object and see if it initiates a conversation. It may initiate a few, most of which will be questions about your sanity.

And what happens if you’re walking through City A, and there is something that Companion B likes to talk about. However, every time you go through City A, you don’t have Companion B in your group? Is the conversation lost?

I’ve seen messages noting the cost involved in and that very well may be true. But really, does it really cost that much more to have an Actor read 1,200 lines of dialogue as opposed to 750? It must if that is the deciding factor. But, 3,200,000 units sold @ $50 a unit (not including Awakenings). I think they can afford a few extra lines of dialogue.

As for the Gifts, it was a game mechanic. It wasn’t the worse system ever devised, but it was far from perfect. Approval should have included a time element in addition to actions and conversations and gifts. Technically, horde enough gifts at the start and you can go from 0 to 100 approval in a very short time.

Modifié par Ash Wind, 19 mai 2010 - 03:11 .

[TheMadCat]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Actually, no I don't think so.  If I'm with Wynne and we're tromping through a Amarinthine, she could look up at a tree and have an audio clip of her muttering something about how that tree reminded her of one her old apprentice like to sit under while reading.  Then the player would know to search for a clickable object, launching a dialogue, which would be the standard "STFUY Grandma" or "We're on a job, be quick" or "Oh Wynne, I wuve your stories!"  Maybe there could be a "Tell me about that later" option for the camp-clickers. 

I'd prefer the expository character bits to be tied to the free roaming.  That way you never know what you're going to hear from your mans.

Why though, how would it seem natural for a character to break into a casual dialogue that is completely unreleated to the situation at hand aside from one single object? I'm all for characters going into dialouge relative to the surroundings and the quest/objective you're currently on but if I'm in the middle of the deep roads I don't really see why Wynne should start breaking down bits of her past for you because you clicked on a rock or something and simply giving the option to tell her to "Stuff it" is a ****** poor solution since you have that now in the camp. Dialogue about the current situation makes since with the Awakening system, casual dialouge whose sole purpose is character development does not that's the type of stuff you dive into at a safe enviorment. I just don't understand how you can think it makes sense for a character to "alert you" and discuss their past after you just slogged your way through a small army of Darkspawn.

And that last bit I don't understand, if you click on an object to initate dialouge or it's triggered by something you walk near it's obvious that dialouge is going to revolve around something similar to that object so in reality you'd have a very good idea on what you's "hear from your mans".

[Kileyan]

Nope, I would not purchase another DA game if they do the Awakening conversation system.

It is a shame that Bioware can't find middle grounds. The idea is perfect. I love the idea of little surprises in conversation when a character stumbled across something that sparks their interest.

It would have been a great compliment to the typical conversation system. But as the core of the conversation system, who thought it was a good idea?

I'm not even a player who thinks romances and stuff are all that important. I just don't like the fake feel of the system. I have to rotate party members in and out. I have to backtrack through all the now empty maps, just to make someone talk. It is clunky, jarring, time consuming, and a really bad idea.

Modifié par Kileyan, 19 mai 2010 - 05:49 .