337 réponses à ce sujet

[Leon Evelake]

Ash Wind wrote...

I didn't care for the Awakening dialogue system, though it wouldn't necessarily preclude me from buying DA:2.
The Awakenings system lacked a sense of flow and timing. Oh there's a tree... I 'have' to talk to someone. Joy. That system is forced and uninteresting. Conversations feel scripted (and of course they are, but now they are telling me when and where too.... boring) and it makes me play the dev’s game, not my game.

The original system worked better IMO. Sure it had flaws, though in most cases the timing of conversations was at my disposal. Sometimes I would go deep into the action of the game before I would stop at camp and start to pry.

In the real world, you meet someone, start talking about common ground, and through that learn more about the person and can ask better questions. Now granted conversations in game are more controlled, and there are finite resources you can spend, but the Origins system did a much better job of capturing the feel of real conversations.

Next time you're out where people are, stare at an object and see if it initiates a conversation. It may initiate a few, most of which will be questions about your sanity.

And what happens if you’re walking through City A, and there is something that Companion B likes to talk about. However, every time you go through City A, you don’t have Companion B in your group? Is the conversation lost?

I’ve seen messages noting the cost involved in and that very well may be true. But really, does it really cost that much more to have an Actor read 1,200 lines of dialogue as opposed to 750? It must if that is the deciding factor. But, 3,200,000 units sold @ $50 a unit (not including Awakenings). I think they can afford a few extra lines of dialogue.

As for the Gifts, it was a game mechanic. It wasn’t the worse system ever devised, but it was far from perfect. Approval should have included a time element in addition to actions and conversations and gifts. Technically, horde enough gifts at the start and you can go from 0 to 100 approval in a very short time.

THe game was quite successful so I find it hard to believe the issue is really cost effectiveness.  It seems to to me they are looking for ways to cut time so they can get the next game out fast and I am sure saving the money helps with the idea I just don't buy that they cannot afford it.

[Lyna357]

Leon Evelake wrote...

The title is pretty self explanatory.  Comments from the developers indicate that dragon age 2 will use the Awakening conversation system or something akin to it.  Allegedly the original is not cost effective, though considering how successful the game was it seems to me it may be to ensure they can get the sequel out quickly.

I find this disheartening I love Origins its in my top 10 or maybe 5 games of all time.  The reason I enjoyed it so much was because the characters had real depth and the the conversation system allowed me to fully create my character's personality in a way that was fuller and more nuanced than other games, and because it allowed me to feel like I created real relationships between the characters.
I liked Awakening for what it was but its system does not deliver this I always felt like something was missing, like I was restrained, frankly the new system is broken and the effort of having to take multiple characters to the same cites to get them to talk was burdensome, not to mention being able to go up to npc's and talk at any time and not my own party is asinine.  In the original I used certain people for main quests and others or side quests, I used everybody a decent amount and got to know them fairly well, I should not be expected to play through the game multiple times to get to know the different characters.

I hate to say it but I highly doubt it that I will buy the sequel if they use the awakening system, other people have said the same on these boards, so I was wondering what other peoples thought on the matter are.

Please tell me they don't really intend to replace the dialogue system with one like Awakening. I agree with the second paragraph of your post 100%. I am of the school that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Origins dialogue system was amazing in the way it allowed so much immersion. The voice acting was superb imo.
I would not necessarily mind if they want to implement the Awakening type of system in addition to the original style of dialogue. I intend to adopt a wait and see attitude but definitely won't rush out and buy it if they use the Awakening system. Here's hoping they will listen to us and keep the best thing about the game ...in the game.

[Hollingdale]

What do you guys think about partly non voiced dialogue like in Baldurs Gate 2? It would allow for a lot more dialogue that's for sure.

[GammaRayJim]

I would like to know what exactly makes the conversation system in Origins not "cost effective"? If it's having well known actors such as Kate Mulgrew doing the voices then I have no problem saying cut them and go with an unknowns. Remember it's not who is voicing it but what is written for the story that's important.

I prefer the depth of the conversations in Origins, and if anything would want more dialog options and not less. If a mix of the two camp/road chats occur I would be ok with that. I can see how something in your travels would trigger a companion to make a comment, that happens in our lives all the time. You go to the mall with a friend and you hear a song or see gadget and it sparks a memory. But there are also times with the same friend that you are vacation together sitting around a camp fire having a couple of beers and you get into more intimate conversations about life, death...you get the picture.

I think a big part of camp dialog that is missing is when returning from a mission having those who didn't go asking "WTF did you just do"? Or "I'm so glad you made that decision" and perhaps moderate a conversation/argument between the two factions. This could be directly linked to approval. I agree that items other than those like Allister's locket and Flemeth's Grimoire should not garner approval, your actions as a leader should do that.

[spottyblanket]

Probably but I'd be very annoyed.

[Vicious]

Yes. It was annoying but not that annoying to trigger a knee-jerk response.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

TheMadCat wrote...
Why though, how would it seem natural for a character to break into a casual dialogue that is completely unreleated to the situation at hand aside from one single object?  I'm all for characters going into dialouge relative to the surroundings and the quest/objective you're currently on but if I'm in the middle of the deep roads I don't really see why Wynne should start breaking down bits of her past for you because you clicked on a rock or something

I can understand what you're saying, but I totally disagree.  For example:  I was going to fireworks once with a mix of people from two colleges that had never met.  We saw an ugly little car go by that was a hideous shade of sparkly green.  One chick said "I had a car that color as a kid and my friends loved it." and everyone made fun of
her.  There was, however, a story behind it that had nothing to do with the city we were in, the fireworks, the colleges, the night... nothing.  The car was totally unrelated, but it was an amusing story.  (In before Cool Story, Brogan.)

You using Wynne is a bad example for the deep roads.  The characters could be walking down the roads and come across a road sign that make Shale mutter or stop and reach up to brush the dust off of.  Then you'd know to go over and click on the sign, starting the conversation with Shale.  That would be a better way to link in Shale's personal quest than having it drop out of no place in a random camp click-festival.

simply giving the option to tell her to "Stuff it" is a ****** poor solution since you have that now in the camp. Dialogue about the current situation makes since with the Awakening system, casual dialouge whose sole purpose is character development does not that's the type of stuff you dive into at a safe enviorment. I just don't understand how you can think it makes sense for a character to "alert you" and discuss their past after you just slogged your way through a small army of Darkspawn.

Because the darkspawn are dead, dead, dead.  Who is afraid of them then?  Going with the choices I provided earlier, if Shale were to see a sign and you were afraid of something pesky like a half dozen ogres down the hall, you could tell Shale "Tell me about it later."  Then you could start a conversation when you were tucked into bed with your tea and scones and Shale would tell you about it.

And that last bit I don't understand, if you click on an object to initate dialouge or it's triggered by something you walk near it's obvious that dialouge is going to revolve around something similar to that object so in reality you'd have a very good idea on what you's "hear from your mans".

Nope.  You've never seen something that reminds you of something else entirely?  That's what we're talking about here.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 19 mai 2010 - 04:34 .

[MassEffectMMO]

I won't buy DAO2 at all, seeing how I don't actually seem to own anything, since Bioware at any time, should you anger their sensetive personell, can take it away from you, no matter how good a customer you are.

Piracy's where it's at.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Hollingdale wrote...

What do you guys think about partly non voiced dialogue like in Baldurs Gate 2? It would allow for a lot more dialogue that's for sure.

I've been advocating that position ever since they abandoned it following NWN.

There's no need to voice all the dialogue.  If voicing all the dialogue drives up costs, then the correct solution is not to reduce the amount of dialogue, but instead to reduce the amount of voice-over.

[Tsuga C]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
There's no need to voice all the dialogue.  If voicing all the dialogue drives up costs, then the correct solution is not to reduce the amount of dialogue, but instead to reduce the amount of voice-over.

Are you listening, EA?

[Brockololly]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Hollingdale wrote...

What do you guys think about partly non voiced dialogue like in Baldurs Gate 2? It would allow for a lot more dialogue that's for sure.

I've been advocating that position ever since they abandoned it following NWN.

There's no need to voice all the dialogue.  If voicing all the dialogue drives up costs, then the correct solution is not to reduce the amount of dialogue, but instead to reduce the amount of voice-over.

As much as I may love hearing Claudia Black's voice, if having less VO means more dialogue and a more cohesive story, then by all means do it.

[Vaeliorin]

Tsuga C wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
There's no need to voice all the dialogue.  If voicing all the dialogue drives up costs, then the correct solution is not to reduce the amount of dialogue, but instead to reduce the amount of voice-over.

Are you listening, EA?

One can only hope.

I'd add that not having voiceover would probably also increase the number of modules produced, as people making them wouldn't feel forced to have voiceover or be panned.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I think BioWare should try an experiment.

Make a game with a smaller team that ignores all of these modern bells and whistles. Yes, it wouldn't sell nearly as well as these AAA titles, but it would also cost a lot less. The experiment will tell us which approach produces the greatest return on investment.

As the plaque on my wall says, "If it matters, measure it."

[Raider777]

No. I like the Origins better. I think it needs to be like Origins and not like awakening.

[Daryn Mercio]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

I think a blend of the two would be best. I did like that you could walk up to a statue in Awakenings and have one of your characters initiate a conversation about it, but I thought this system was spoiled by clicking on a generic tree to initiate a dialogue with oghren that had nothing to do with trees. That just didn't make sense to me.

I like being able to ask your companions questions and get to know them better as per origins, but I did find it offputting to keep initiating dialogue with them and see the same old options again and again. Maybe it is better if conversations are scripted to happen at certain points/locations in the game, but I hope it's done in a way that lets you get closer to the characters than awakenings did.

I think you mean Sigrun walks up to a random tree in the woods and says it smells good or something. Oghren only talks at the sign in Amaranthine, the anvil in Kal Hirol, and I think that's it.

Anyways, I do like the ability to initiate a conversation by touching a tree or statue or something, but I HATED, and I mean that bluntly, I HATED not being able to talk to my party members. Not only does it limit your ability to gain a friend in them, but if the system is like Awakening, then there will be no romances, which was really fun to explore on origins

[Leon Evelake]

MassEffectMMO wrote...

I won't buy DAO2 at all, seeing how I don't actually seem to own anything, since Bioware at any time, should you anger their sensetive personell, can take it away from you, no matter how good a customer you are.
Piracy's where it's at.

what on earth are you talking about?

[BLunted]

If it uses the Awakenings system, no. If it uses some kind of hybrid or the old system, probably (assuming game is bug free).

[Fishy]

I want my character to be voiced ,, Just go ahead and put an option for whom not wanting it .. But i want my PC to be voiced.It's work so well for Mass effect.If you can voice every damn nPc.You can probably voice my pC.

The trigger are just irritating . Oh let's go and reload 15 time and you can go through all your companions conversation at X place..One thing i hated..If a NPC talked and your companions started to talk before it's would cut him.That pissed me off .

I'm not a big fan of how the chit-chat work in dragon age.Yes plenty of them.Very good acting.But by sake banana split . Do i have to do each 2 hours a big run through inside the camp and ask everyone about their life and their problem?Shepard in ME was feeling very important to the story.My PC not so much.More like those trigger everywhere .. My PC was feeling like a trigger for the story .. Nothing more.

PC : My name is  Adrei Cousland!
Companions:Okay Warden!
PC:Cousland
Companions : Okay i get it your name is ...
PC:COUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLANNNNNNNNNNNNNNND
Companions .. Warden


PC:what up Leliana!
Leliana:: Well * Start to talk about her sucky life  *
PC: Well me i have to save ferelden !!
Leliana: NICE Warden
PC: COUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSLAND
Leliana:Whatever

Modifié par Suprez30, 20 mai 2010 - 08:20 .

[Hollingdale]

Suprez30 wrote...

I want my character to be voiced ,, Just go ahead and put an option for whom not wanting it .. But i want my PC to be voiced.It's work so well for Mass effect.If you can voice every damn nPc.You can probably voice my pC.

The trigger are just irritating . Oh let's go and reload 15 time and you can go through all your companions conversation at X place..One thing i hated..If a NPC talked and your companions started to talk before it's would cut him.That pissed me off .

I'm not a big fan of how the chit-chat work in dragon age.Yes plenty of them.Very good acting.But by sake banana split . Do i have to do each 2 hours a big run through inside the camp and ask everyone about their life and their problem?Shepard in ME was feeling very important to the story.My PC not so much.More like those trigger everywhere .. My PC was feeling like a trigger for the story .. Nothing more.

PC : My name is  Adrei Cousland!
Companions:Okay Warden!
PC:Cousland
Companions : Okay i get it your name is ...
PC:COUSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSLANNNNNNNNNNNNNNND
Companions .. Warden


PC:what up Leliana!
Leliana:: Well * Start to talk about her sucky life  *
PC: Well me i have to save ferelden !!
Leliana: NICE Warden
PC: COUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUSLAND
Leliana:Whatever

Dude were trying to be economic with the chat system here and you want a voiced PC? GTFO. There are also a number of other reason as to why the idea of a voiced PC is appaling but I cba to go into details.

That being said I totally agree with the second part of your post and it's one of the reason I like the Awakening dialogues more.

Modifié par Hollingdale, 20 mai 2010 - 02:13 .

[sylvanaerie]

I didn't LIKE the system in Awakenings but it wouldn't stop me from buying another expansion/sequel if that is what they were going with.  Esp if its a sequel as you will have more opportunity to get to know the companions (being its longer and more involved).

I got to know Anders, Justice and Nathaniel quite well (100 each) and had Sigrun (at mid 60s if I remember right).  Oghren and Velanna I didn't recruit.

As long as they have presents for your companions to boost approval it should be okay.  The only annoyance I have with it is running hither and yon to bring so-n-so to this tree or that statue or this sign post to find a trigger point (and sometimes had to back all the way out of the screen in order to find the spot to click).

I enjoyed companions from both games and wouldn't even cry if my warden's story ended there and I had to start with someone new in DA2.  New challenges, new opportunities, new friends to get to know.  As long as they treat the material (and the consumer) with the respect it deserves, sure I would buy it.

[Leon Evelake]

[quote]UnPlayer88 wrote...

Would I buy the sequel if it used the more natural conversation system? Yes.
Do I think it will be use a system identical to Origins or Awakening? No.[/quote]

Would I buy the sequel if it used the more natural conversation system? Yes.
Do I think it will be use a system identical to Origins or Awakening? No.[/quote]
I doubt it will be identical, but what is more natural about the awakening system?  In real life I can initiate conversation I don't have to wait for a friend to see something that reminds them of something and then tell me about their life.  Another big problem some people seem to have with the original is that camp conversations can last too long, personally I like some of the big conversations but do not realize that the conversations can be spaced out, your not really supposed to go through every option available in each time you talk.

[Tsuga C]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

As my brass belt buckle says, "If it matters, measure it."

Modifié par Tsuga C, 20 mai 2010 - 08:34 .

[kingkellogg]

Yah i hated awakenings talk system ,not being able to initiate a conversation with my party at any time was just aggravating .I honestly don't see how that's better then origins.