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[old book]

Well, the Chantry is pretty much based on the Catholic Church, for good or ill and with changes to fit in DA's Fantasy setting.



Mages and Elves are the oppressed minority groups of the setting.



If the Wardens gather too much wealth or power, they could end up in the same position as the historical Knights Templar, with the Church and nobles deciding to take them down.



If the Chantry decided to move against the Wardens, the Wardens could count on support from the Mages, the Dwarves (who in setting the Chantry will eventually move against), and probably the Elves. The Elves don't have much power, the Dwarves are down to two cities, and Templars are good at fighting Mages. Even if the Wardens could defeat a couple of armies sent against them by the Chantry, they can't last against it forever.



However, the Wardens might be able to throw in with the Tevinter Chantry. That might be very interesting.

[Remy LeBeau]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

How the hell would the chantry call for a divine march against the entire Anderfels? The only way they would be able to find out how to create Grey Wardens is from Grey Wardens. I don't think it will be centuries until the next blight and the chantry would have a hard time convincing the folk of Fereldan that their hero who stopped the blight is a bad person. People also might wish to ask, where the chantry was during the recent blight? How come they didn't help fight it?

That's a good guestion. Where the hell was the Chantry?

[Herr Uhl]

Remy LeBeau wrote...

krasnoarmeets wrote...

How the hell would the chantry call for a divine march against the entire Anderfels? The only way they would be able to find out how to create Grey Wardens is from Grey Wardens. I don't think it will be centuries until the next blight and the chantry would have a hard time convincing the folk of Fereldan that their hero who stopped the blight is a bad person. People also might wish to ask, where the chantry was during the recent blight? How come they didn't help fight it?

That's a good guestion. Where the hell was the Chantry?

Same place as the rest of the GW and the Orlesians.

[Remy LeBeau]

old book wrote...

Well, the Chantry is pretty much based on the Catholic Church, for good or ill and with changes to fit in DA's Fantasy setting.

Mages and Elves are the oppressed minority groups of the setting.

If the Wardens gather too much wealth or power, they could end up in the same position as the historical Knights Templar, with the Church and nobles deciding to take them down.

If the Chantry decided to move against the Wardens, the Wardens could count on support from the Mages, the Dwarves (who in setting the Chantry will eventually move against), and probably the Elves. The Elves don't have much power, the Dwarves are down to two cities, and Templars are good at fighting Mages. Even if the Wardens could defeat a couple of armies sent against them by the Chantry, they can't last against it forever.

However, the Wardens might be able to throw in with the Tevinter Chantry. That might be very interesting.

Mages scare the hell out of templers, and the mages know that. The Wardens don't mind there mages useing blood magic. So the Templars are pretty much,  fuged. The Templars use fear to keep the mages in check. If Uldred and Jorwen were smart enough, I think they could had used blood magic on the Templars and walk out of the front door of the tower. It's easy for the Templers the track and kill one, or two malificar, but an army is something else.

Modifié par Remy LeBeau, 17 mai 2010 - 07:19 .

[Daewan]

Crusades failed in the short term goal of taking back the Holy Land. They succeeded in the long term goal of utterly destabilizing the region for centuries to come, and breaking the budding superpower of the Sultanate and at the same time forging relationships between the Western nations that survive to this day.

In a world where the Grey Wardens aren't a major power and only have a limited, distant base, the Chantry could easily shatter the power of the Grey Wardens, ideologically and organizationally. Instead of continuing as an independent, supranational arm, they would be folded into the Chantry.

The Chantry, like the Church, fights with ideas and superstition. The Blights are, and have always been, punishment for sins that only pure faith and loyalty to the Chantry can overcome. Now hand over your ability to think for yourself and march into that pit. It's been centuries, and people still don't ask where the Church is when disasters happen; it's always there to point fingers of blame and offer help after the fact. Just like the Chantry.

[Sarah1281]

If the Chantry decided to move against the Wardens, the Wardens could count on support from the Mages, the Dwarves (who in setting the Chantry will eventually move against), and probably the Elves. The Elves don't have much power, the Dwarves are down to two cities, and Templars are good at fighting Mages. Even if the Wardens could defeat a couple of armies sent against them by the Chantry, they can't last against it forever.

The Templars would be utterly useless as the minute the dwarves get involved in the conflict against the Chantry, they cut off their lyrium supply and the Templars go into severe withdrawl like the one in Howe's dungeon. The elves don't need political or societal power for the Dalish to be good at killing things and only having two cities doesn't mean that the dwarves can't fight, just that there are a lot more darkspawn then there are of them.

[Addai]

What would be the point? At most, they might try to revoke the right of conscription.

[Sarah1281]

It's been centuries, and people still don't ask where the Church is when disasters happen; it's always there to point fingers of blame and offer help after the fact. Just like the Chantry.

No, but they may ask where the church's private army was. And Ferelden, at least, DOES blame them for some of their BS such as when they supported the occupation until virtually the last second.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 17 mai 2010 - 07:21 .

[Remy LeBeau]

Sarah1281 wrote...

If the Chantry decided to move against the Wardens, the Wardens could count on support from the Mages, the Dwarves (who in setting the Chantry will eventually move against), and probably the Elves. The Elves don't have much power, the Dwarves are down to two cities, and Templars are good at fighting Mages. Even if the Wardens could defeat a couple of armies sent against them by the Chantry, they can't last against it forever.

The Templars would be utterly useless as the minute the dwarves get involved in the conflict against the Chantry, they cut off their lyrium supply and the Templars go into severe withdrawl like the one in Howe's dungeon. The elves don't need political or societal power for the Dalish to be good at killing things and only having two cities doesn't mean that the dwarves can't fight, just that there are a lot more darkspawn then there are of them.

And you know the Dwarves are pretty pissed, at the fact that nobody from the surface gives a rat's **** about the Ds until the go to the surface. Only the Wardens knows and care about the Dwarves.

[Remy LeBeau]

Lintanis wrote...

 If The Warden helped Brother Burkel near the Tapster's and convinced the Shaper to grant him the right to preach his sermons to others, he will end up converting quite a few souls to the Chantry. The majority of the rigid dwarven populace will not react well to this, and Burkel is killed while resisting arrest. With his death, the Chantry itself will then consider leading an Exalted March on the dwarves to avenge this perceived slight upon their religion. It is unknown if they ever do go through with this, however, as it is only suggested during the ending credits.


They have ideas of going after the dwarfs, wouldnt put much past them 

The chantry is all about power and keeping people in check. So,I agree with you, and would not put it pass them.

[Costin_Razvan]

The Grey Wardens are devout Andrastians...but it will be interesting to see what happens latter on with the mages of Fereldan given full autonomy.

[Remy LeBeau]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The Grey Wardens are devout Andrastians...but it will be interesting to see what happens latter on with the mages of Fereldan given full autonomy.

Sooner or later the chantry is going to find out the the mages in the GW uses blood magic to take Down the Darkspawn.

[Costin_Razvan]

Let them try to fight the Grey Wardens. Almost 100 of them almost took out the Fereldan Army back in Dryden's days. Besides the Anderfels, as in the country, would fight under the GW banner.

[Remy LeBeau]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Let them try to fight the Grey Wardens. Almost 100 of them almost took out the Fereldan Army back in Dryden's days. Besides the Anderfels, as in the country, would fight under the GW banner.

I would love to see that battle. I hate the Chantry. 

[Costin_Razvan]

My fanfiction will deal ( eventually once I deal with the whole Blight stuff ) about a war between the Chantry and Grey Wardens.



Let's just say that it will make the Qunari invasion seem like a minor skirmish.

[Herr Uhl]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

My fanfiction will deal ( eventually once I deal with the whole Blight stuff ) about a war between the Chantry and Grey Wardens.

Let's just say that it will make the Qunari invasion seem like a minor skirmish.

So it will last for almost a century and take place over half an continent?

It's going to be a looong fanfic.

[Maria13]

Don't want to confuse issues but if the Chantry is the medieval Christian church then the GWs are like the... Templars. A military religious order that grew too big and powerful for its boots and ended up being "dissolved" with the help of the church by a King of France who owed them too much money...

Modifié par Maria13, 17 mai 2010 - 08:44 .

[Costin_Razvan]

So it will last for almost a century and take place over half an continent?



It's going to be a looong fanfic.

It will take over a period of a few years, but it will involve every major nation of Thedas.

[Herr Uhl]

Well, all except Rivain. There wouldn't be any Andrastians to fight there.

[jenncgf]

Rylock needed an adjustment to her lyrium dosage. Just sayin'. But yeah, if you look at all the signs there's definitely unrest where the Chantry is concerned. I could totally see a major storyline/installment of the series being based on backlash against Chantry rule.

[KnightofPhoenix]

old book wrote...
If the Wardens gather too much wealth or power, they could end up in the same position as the historical Knights Templar, with the Church and nobles deciding to take them down.

A bad analogy. The Knight Templars was sanctioned and endorsed by the Vatican and has been funded by it. It was destroyed when the King of France (cough Orlais) and the Vatican decided they were no longer useful (Crusades failed badly).
 
The Grey Wardens precede the Chantry and presumabely are not funded by it, or at least not dependent on it. The Knight Templar is an official Church institution on the otherhand.

So while the Chantry could be stupid enough to do so (they might do it after the 7th Blight), it will not be similar to the Templar purge in real life.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 17 mai 2010 - 09:05 .

[Costin_Razvan]

The Chantry against the Wardens could be roughly compared to the Poland and Lithuania against the Teutonic Knights, except without the Holy Roman Empire deciding to stop supporting the Knights.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 17 mai 2010 - 09:16 .

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

The Grey Wardens are devout Andrastians...but it will be interesting to see what happens latter on with the mages of Fereldan given full autonomy.

Some GW, maybe, but not all. It's hardly a requirement so it depends who happens to be recruited.

[Swoo]

No I don't think they are, at this current time.

Live or Die, the Grey Wardens are right now at a peak of popularity and potential political power (say that quickly) with commoners, foreign relations, and nobles alike. The Anderfels ARE the Wardens. Orlais seems to be quite fond of them having such a major force in contigency, and also having provided safe haven multiple times, so even with the Chantry based out of there I would figure there would be major resistance to the idea - and don't forget, Orlesian's LOVE the bandit-heroes, especially the ones that fight against Orlais. Antiva's Merchant Kings probably don't give a damn as long as the coin flows. Ferelden boys and girls probably play Wardens vs Darkspawn now instead of Bandit Queen games. The popularity just seems to much to move against without something drastic popping up that all could rally against, like a Dryden-esque coup attempt.

Add to the fact that as long as the Chantry is thinking it through, the Warden's are one of the worst factions around to pick a fight with. They won't give up, they won't quit, they are highly trained, motivated, fearless (the whole, I'm dead anyway probably doesn't leave much to nerves in battlefields), and they have many friends that the Chantry can't touch. The Dwarves probably wouldn't march to war against the Chantry unless you played as a Dwarf Warden - I'm sure a Paragon could get a force to fight for him, but they would damn sure allow safe harbor for the only surfacers with a bit of stone-sense and tell the Chant to step up or step off when their 'little march' got to the doors. The Dalish wouldn't pitch any battles in the Wardens name, but would surely allow them safe harbor and spots in a arafel to slip through the cracks of the roadways with. And like I said, pretty much every nation would offer them some kind of assistance, even if it's not in the light of day. The Teventir's would probably embrace them out of spite.

[Costin_Razvan]

Tevinter would probably see it as an opportunity to ally the Wardens and drive into Orlais with their armies. The Anderfels is a strong country in it's own right, and remember that Fereldan either has a Grey Warden King or a Queen grateful to the Wardens, or both.

Orlais would get ****ed beyond measure if they supported the Chantry.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 18 mai 2010 - 12:47 .