182 réponses à ce sujet

[SP One Nineteen]

Did anybody else watch the everyone dies ending, after i watched that i said Fu** TIM. F*ck that sly bastard.

[GreenDragon37]

SP One Nineteen wrote...

Did anybody else watch the everyone dies ending, after i watched that i said Fu** TIM. F*ck that sly bastard.

Yeah! That ending made me have the same reaction. It made me lose what little trust I had in TIM, and that wasn't alot!

[Asheer_Khan]

Bigdoser wrote...

Even if I don't like cerb I don't think they are comparable with Al Queda.

What difference is between luring tresher maw at the colony and blowing up  filled by explosives car in the middle of the crowded marketplace?

Both groups speaks "In name of...." don't having any legitimate right to do such.

[GreenDragon37]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Even if I don't like cerb I don't think they are comparable with Al Queda.

What difference is between luring tresher maw at the colony and blowing up  filled by explosives car in the middle of the crowded marketplace?

Both groups speaks "In name of...." don't having any legitimate right to do such.

Yeah. And they are both willing to commit attrocieties against others including their own people in order to get their agendas across. They are actually pretty similar in that reguard. One kills in the name of god, the other kills in the name of human ascension.

[Inverness Moon]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

IF humanity want to be galactic superpower (good joke by the way) then WHY they even accept invitation to establish relationships whit the Citadel when they known that any official status there will kick off any chance to creating large fleet of powerful ships?

We're talking about what Cerberus wants for humanity, not what humanity as a whole wants, which is something we don't know.

And WHO gives Cerberus and his wanabe emperor TiM right to speak in name of the Humanity?
They DON"T represent entire human race but they are as same paramilitary groups like IRA,. ETA  or AL QUEDA except tech level difference but whit same overgrown ego.

I would not compare Cerberus to Al Queda or anything like that.

However, Cerberus did push for the creation of the original Normandy, and built the second entirely on its own. Then they brought Shepard back from the dead to be a big goddamn hero again. Pretty good record their despite the other **** they've done.

I also don't know what you're talking about anymore.

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Yeah. And they are both willing to commit attrocieties against others including their own people in order to get their agendas across. They are actually pretty similar in that reguard. One kills in the name of god, the other kills in the name of human ascension.

TIM is an ends justify the means guy, he believes Cerberus will be vindicated in the end. Bringing Shepard back from the dead goes a long way in that respect.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 mai 2010 - 11:33 .

[Jesusland]

Lumikki wrote...

Jesusland wrote...

TIM is not worse than the Reapers. That's all you really need to know folks!

Assuming that TIM isn't same side than reapers and used Shepard to clear up they possible enemy who was building they own version of reaper, the collectors.

There is like millions of possibilities, what TIM can do and what's TIM motives. Good and bad. TIM could deside that only way to save humanity is build they own reapers and use some alien races as it's building material.

My Shepard does not trust TIM at all, but I don't think he is worst than reapers. How ever, I'm not sure he is human at all.

You raise interesting possibilities.  But my Shep only operates with the information he has before him.  He's a soldier, not an ambassador or member of the council.

Modifié par Jesusland, 19 mai 2010 - 12:00 .

[Bigdoser]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Even if I don't like cerb I don't think they are comparable with Al Queda.

What difference is between luring tresher maw at the colony and blowing up  filled by explosives car in the middle of the crowded marketplace?

Both groups speaks "In name of...." don't having any legitimate right to do such.

Yeah. And they are both willing to commit attrocieties against others including their own people in order to get their agendas across. They are actually pretty similar in that reguard. One kills in the name of god, the other kills in the name of human ascension.

I can see your point and I agree, when I saw TIM evil smile while looking at the base spelled bad news for me. The thing which shocked me the most was the fact that Miranda did not want to keep the collector base and then quitting cerb was another shocker was anyone else suprised?

[DOYOURLABS]

Whether you like cerberus or not, without them the collectors would have made the human reaper.

[SP One Nineteen]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

SP One Nineteen wrote...

Did anybody else watch the everyone dies ending, after i watched that i said Fu** TIM. F*ck that sly bastard.

Yeah! That ending made me have the same reaction. It made me lose what little trust I had in TIM, and that wasn't alot!

yeah i thought he was pretty fly for a bit then i saw that and said 'uh-unh' hell no, NO COLLECTOR BASE FOR U!!!

[Pacifien]

They're your ally so long as you share the same goals. I'm sure that alliance is put to the test once the goals differ.

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

DOYOURLABS wrote...

Whether you like cerberus or not, without them the collectors would have made the human reaper.

Indeed. Like them or not they are your only REAL ally in this galaxy. Nobody else is willing and able to help you.

Except for the Krogans, Rachni, and Geth. If you weren't a jerk that is.

And if all else fails you still have Urz.

Modifié par Inverness Moon, 18 mai 2010 - 11:52 .

[Arijharn]

Lumikki wrote...

Jesusland wrote...

TIM is not worse than the Reapers. That's all you really need to know folks!

Assuming that TIM isn't same side than reapers and used Shepard to clear up they possible enemy who was building they own version of reaper, the collectors.

There is like millions of possibilities, what TIM can do and what's TIM motives. Good and bad. TIM could deside that only way to save humanity is build they own reapers and use some alien races as it's building material.

My Shepard does not trust TIM at all, but I don't think he is worst than reapers. How ever, I'm not sure he is human at all.

It's nonsensical to assume that TIM is on the same side as the Reapers, because there's even less evidence of that than there is of Cerberus being completely evil (think about it, in a court of law for example you haven't even let Cerberus explain its side, for all you know Corporal Toombs could of died without Cerberus' help...).

I also strongly disagree with the notion that TIM would use the Collector Base to build a new reaper for the simple reason that it wouldn't be effective on a time rate that they have no idea about (will the Reapers arrive in the next 10 seconds, the next 10 months, years or decades?). The Collector base has all sorts of marvels in it, from the manufacturing processes for the Collector Beam rifles, from the seeker swarm technical data etc. Even, yes, the smouldering ruins of the Human-Reaper in the basement. Also note that now Cerberus is aware of the possible dangers of indoctrination even from Reaper 'corpses' and they've also begun studies of psychological profiles  of prospective scientists after the disasters from the Mmenosyne derelict thus counter-measures could be worked... even if it's as basic as simple rotating of base personnel.

If being a paragon means that you want to protect all life, as much as possible, then you're betraying your own beliefs by destroying that base, because as past events have proven it requires a substantial amount of firepower to even scratch a reaper and we have no idea on the actual numerical strength of the Reapers to begin with. Even if TIM was going to use the Reaper tech to eventually enslave the rest of the species to the yolk of humanity, then as unfortunate as that is, it's still preferable than to be completely wiped out (both us and every other species) by the Reaper menace. It is safe to assume that saving the collector base, and the technological rewards (if any could be gleaned in time) it offers will dent the casualties all of us would otherwise suffer.

[CherryColaLola]

Yeoman Kelly Chambers said it best when questioned about cerberus early on. I'm paraphrasing here, but took notes!

Shepard - "The organization has a dark reputation.Any concerns working for them?"
Kelly - "Not at all! Our methods can be harsh but Cerberus has noble objectives. Cerberus looks out for humanity! My sister started a dog shelter but she also loves cats! I love humanity but I also love asari, quarian, salarian turian, hanar. That isn't in conflict with Cerberus ideals."

Seriously, anyone who can dance like Kelly must be right!

Modifié par CherryColaLola, 19 mai 2010 - 01:19 .

[Inverness Moon]

Shandepared wrote...

Inverness Moon wrote...

Except for the Krogans, Rachni, and Geth. If you weren't a jerk that is.

Have all done a hell of a lot less to help you than Cerberus has. Wrex never even mentions the Reapers. He's uniting the krogan for his own reasons and the geth merely used you to further their own ends by destroying their enemy. When it came to sharing vital technology to enable you to complete your mission the most they were willing to do was give you the schematics for a sniper rifle.

On the part of the rachni all we got was an email.

Wrex knows the seriousness of the reaper threat, he will be there when you need him.

As for the geth, Legion said that no further co-development is possible. I take that to mean the resources and/or technology was not available to develop anything else. As for the rachni, they're rebuilding after near-extinction, cut them some slack.

[Arijharn]

I actually thought Legion was more confused as to the immediate need of combating the Collector's since preparing for the Reapers would surely rank as being more important. I can't imagine that Legion fought the Collectors before teaming up with you afterall.

[Arijharn]

Well, at the risk of metagaming it, we know that saving the Rachni will at least give us eventual reinforcements. Okay, maybe we don't 'know' it, but I guess what we do have is strong circumstancial evidence.

[DuffyMJ]

Terraneaux wrote...

In the first game, Cerberus was cartoonishly evil and the council were a bunch of obnoxious bureaucrats. In the second game, the council seems to be actively antagonistic towards the main character and Cerberus is portrayed in a much more positive light. The way things play out leads me to believe that writer bias more than any sense of verisimilitude is driving the characterization of these organizations.

You think the real world has verisimilitude much less a fictional representation of it?

[DuffyMJ]

Shandepared wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

What makes an Akuze survivor spectre material anyway? That wouldn't be my first choice as one. They are more likely to be mentally unstable and have their emotions dictate their decisions.

Personally I think the only profile that makes for an appropriate Spectre is Ruthless. War Hero is impressive, but all it demonstrates is the ability to command and good fighting skills. Ruthless demonstrates both of those things plus the willingness to get the job done. The most important rule a Spectre must follow is that the mission must be accomplished.

Says who? The council never once said that was a spectre's purpose... In fact, the only spectre to demonstrate that kind of attitude was Saren who killed all those civilians when going around with Anderson. 

[mosor]

DuffyMJ wrote...

Shandepared wrote...

Markinator_123 wrote...

What makes an Akuze survivor spectre material anyway? That wouldn't be my first choice as one. They are more likely to be mentally unstable and have their emotions dictate their decisions.

Personally I think the only profile that makes for an appropriate Spectre is Ruthless. War Hero is impressive, but all it demonstrates is the ability to command and good fighting skills. Ruthless demonstrates both of those things plus the willingness to get the job done. The most important rule a Spectre must follow is that the mission must be accomplished.

Says who? The council never once said that was a spectre's purpose... In fact, the only spectre to demonstrate that kind of attitude was Saren who killed all those civilians when going around with Anderson. 

Nihlus too. Ruthless enough around civilians to get Sarama to hunt him down for days. Spectres, like any other akin to them get their hands dirty all the time.

[Nightwriter]

Another Cerberus debate? Why wasn't I invited? *feels left out*

Oh, I'll just hop in and latch onto an argument I can get behind. Oh look, Shand said something! How convenient.

Shandepared wrote...

Personally I think the only profile that makes for an appropriate Spectre is Ruthless. War Hero is impressive, but all it demonstrates is the ability to command and good fighting skills. Ruthless demonstrates both of those things plus the willingness to get the job done. The most important rule a Spectre must follow is that the mission must be accomplished.

Of course you'd think that. You're you.

Simply because I as a war hero saved the day once does not mean I am completely incapable of making difficult choices in all eventualities in the future, or that I cannot grasp the reality and the importance of making difficult decisions.

In addition, your remark seems to imply that ruthlessness is the most important trait in a Spectre, and that is something I disagree with.

[uhdnrt]

Once there is definite proof that can't be accounted for, the council will likely respond appropriately. Honestly, the "smear" campaign on Shepard is necessary. A spectre that can be identified on site is a problem for the security of Citadel Space - any place Shepard shows up in would the be the target of intense scrutiny. This both makes Shep's job harder and makes other Spectre's jobs harder,



On the other hand, the Council's hostile reaction to Shepard in ME can be directly blamed on Cerberus and The Illusive Man. It was a simple tactic on TIM's part: by making Shepard's allies distrust him, it would make Cerberus seem like a more palatable ally AND make Shepard easier to manipulate.



As the Archangel after mission report indicates, it was a surprise that Garrus was found and recruited. Without Garrus's unexpected return, it is more than highly probable that Tali never would have become an option to recruit. TIM went way out of his way to discredit and remove all of Shep's previous allies initially; keeping Shep isolated would make him much more susceptible to manipulation. Once Garrus was on board, recruiting Tali became an option since the planned isolation had already been negated.



Prior to Garrus, it was pretty clear that TIM was surrounding Shepard with powerful but unstable or unreliable allies (a rogue Krogan Battlemaster, a Vigilante, a psychopath, and a brilliant mad scientist), with the notable exception of the two "stable" allies in Miranda and Jacob (Jacob especially was likely included to give Shepard the illusion of security).



These are not actions of an ally, but rather of someone hoping to engender a Stockholm Syndrom like reaction out of someone. It is deliberate misdirection and manipulation designed to make Cerberus seem more "normal" and less of an extremist group with the aim of converting a target who is under stressful, isolated situations.



And this is supposed to be an ally? I think not.