182 réponses à ce sujet

[Zulu_DFA]

Mangalores wrote...

I always took it that we only hear Cerberus' very lopsided version of it all because otherwise it seems hardly plausible. It is also implied that it were only human colonies in the verge who obviously rejected Alliance and thus Council sovereignity which is why no official reactions are to be seen. Ashley/Kaidan's mission at least imply covert operations being underway.

Ashley/Kaidan's mission was triggered by a tip TIM gave the Alliance.

The Alliance wasn't caeing about colonies disappearences as much as about Eden Prime, because Eden prime was a major Alliance colony? one of the oldest, with millions of citizens. Collectors were targetting small colonies in the Terminus Systems, that were comprised of several thousand colonists at most, and quite defiant of the alliance at that. Alliance is not people's government. It's a corporations consortium that сares solely about profit. And yhose colonies were not paying any taxes of bringing any revenue.

I was also disappointed that full renegade did imply fully pro-Cerberus instead of full anti-all-those-****s-who-want-to-use-me-I-am-in-charge-now-and-do-what-it-takes.

I certainly hope we can take out Cerberus in ME3 in some way or another.

This attitude is a bit arrogant, hub-of-the-universe-ish, don't you think? and hey? I was more ripped off than you, because there was no "What's our next step?" option in the final conversation with TIM!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 mai 2010 - 11:20 .

[Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

This attitude is a bit arrogant, hub-of-the-universe-ish, don't you think? and hey? I was more ripped off than you, because there was no "What's our next step?" option in the final conversation with TIM!

I don't mind the 2nd half of the conversation with TIM. It's the 1st half that bugs me.

Due to all the lines that come out no matter what choice is made namely where Shep says "Human dominance or just Cerberus!?!"

I did manage to pick a conversation that apart from that and a couple of other things said, seemed to be fairly much as if we can remain loyal with them for my 'Cerberus/Humanity comes first' Shepard playthrough but I have my doubts that Bioware would continue that due to all the people complaining about being forced to work with Cerberus.

[Wildecker]

Mangalores wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
....

Everybody; Anderson, Udina, everyone who sat back and did nothing while the Collectors were doing their scavenger hunt in the Terminus.  The moment Cerberus was the only one to step up to the plate and actually defend humanity they earned the right to speak for them.
....

The thing is that that's Cerberus' excuse and thus a very lopsided view. While the Council didn't openly help in ME1 it becomes very clear lateron that alot of their resources were spreading around to get behind the development even if they didn't share Shephard's theories (Salarian task forces running all around the Verge for instance). The lethargy in ME2 seem strange to me, however the problem seems more that we don't hear anything the Alliance is doing and nothing the Council is doing which is not precisely the same as them doing nothing which is imo not really explainable. For instance if the Alliance was ticked off by Eden Prime they would be a hundred fold more ticked off by the Collectors and if the Council was willing to start a full investigation on events in ME1 they would have even less trouble doing so with the humans being part of the council.

I think that the Alliance's military strength has been diverted to peace-keeping in the name of the Council, at least as long as the Turians need to rebuild the ships they lost at the battle of the Citadel. And anyway, the Collectors have the advantage - they can pick their targets as they like, while the Alliance must justify why they keep small fleets scattered all over their territory and into the Terminus when nothing happens where they are. All the time hearing the Terminus bandit kings yelling "This means war!".

Mangalores wrote...

I certainly hope we can take out Cerberus in ME3 in some way or another.

I would be much more thrilled if Shepard inherits Cerberus and has to decide what to do now, acting on reports and determining whether a project is justified by his standards or not. Mankind needs someone to protect it, right - we're just arguing about the best way to do it ... and if it requires Shepard to "go Batman", well, it could be worse. Both for him and for mankind.
The Illusive Man would be more akin to the Punisher, right?

Modifié par Wildecker, 19 mai 2010 - 11:39 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Sir Ulrich Von Lichenstien wrote...

seemed to be fairly much as if we can remain loyal with them for my 'Cerberus/Humanity comes first' Shepard playthrough but I have my doubts that Bioware would continue that due to all the people complaining about being forced to work with Cerberus.

The easiest way out of this for BioWare is to make TIM real bad. That is a cartoonish cliche evil mad mwua-ha-ha I-ve-got-the-power Fear-Me! type of villain. So that any Shepard will be forced to abandon him. But it'd be real lame.

So I think (hope) they just go again with the bust start plot twist when any Shepard has to go through a large part of ME3 on their own, and gets to choose what faction to rejoin later. Maybe in the very end of ME3 -- during the final battle or even after it (like choosing Anderson/Udina/Doesn't matter for the Council seat.)

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 19 mai 2010 - 11:43 .

[Asheer_Khan]

Until Mac Walters will keep his lead writer status it's more than sure that Cerberus will still kept Shepard in his claws in ME 3 no matter what decision i made in C-base. (overlord DLC is good indication of such tendency)

And we will see further degeneration of the Alliance and the Council role and ascending Cerberus to role of holy savior of the galaxy....

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 19 mai 2010 - 12:20 .

[lovgreno]

Cerberus plays with high risks to gain high gains. Sometimes that is necesary and it's effective to a extent. Thus far Shepard and TIM have been sucessfull in their by necesity desperate gambles. Considering the harsh conditions they have done understandable, but not necesarily smart, decisions. But that luck isn't going to last forever. Sooner or later something going to go fubar. Too many will die. Something important will be lost. They will make too many powerfull enemies. You can't make a living on russian roulette, eventualy the hammer will hit a bullet.



To survive in the long run you will have to make a long term plans. You have to gain many strong and different allies. You must play things safe. You need people you can trust and people to trust you. In these things Cerberus is no longer a resource but a liability.



After the Collector Base Shepard must move ahead and sever his ties with a organisation that is no longer usefull for him.



But sure, I can allow a lot of odd things in a story that must work both for a paragon and for a renegade. Cerberus wouldn't last a week in the real world but they are not meant to be realistic, they are meant to be a interesting plot device. I sure wouldn't be able to write it better than Bioware. Still I can't help feeling that Cerberus are just incompetent, but I guess thats just me taking things too serious.



Some likes to dream about a world where they can act how they like, use extreme tactics and being ruthless without any bad consequences. That freedom does sound tempting, I must admit. I suppose those might find Cerberus side of things more appealing in ME. But personaly I'm probably too turian like for that. I will try to resist airquoting people though.

[Persephone]

Jesusland wrote...

It's obvious Cerberus are supposed to be the "bad guys", but that's now what I've seen so far.  The Council are racist, ungrateful do-nothings, and the Alliance betrayed Shephard by denying the Reaper threat.  And look how easy Ashley disowned Shephard after everything he did in ME1.  Shameful.  So why should Shephard keep bending over for them?  Meanwhile, Cerberus is getting the job done and has the best interests of humanity at heart, and is giving Shep everything he needs to complete the mission.  Sure, maybe TIM is a bit shady, but so far he doesn't strike me as worse than Udina and the Council.  They are all asses.  That's why I saved the Collector base for him.  Because Cerberus is the only one doing anything about the Reaper threat.  And M2 hasn't given me any REAL indication that TIM is such a bad guy.  I wanted to be loyal to the Alliance, but they betrayed Shep.  Shep is a Cerberus man now.

While I understand where you're coming from, it's not all that easy. Cerberus are racist terrorists in ME1, TIM is utterly ruthless and even Miranda explains all the evil Cerberus has done away like they were just tiny errors. TIM wanted to keep a base where people were liquified, no way in HELL will I support that lying extremist.

[Inverness Moon]

uhdnrt wrote...

Once there is definite proof that can't be accounted for, the council will likely respond appropriately. Honestly, the "smear" campaign on Shepard is necessary. A spectre that can be identified on site is a problem for the security of Citadel Space - any place Shepard shows up in would the be the target of intense scrutiny. This both makes Shep's job harder and makes other Spectre's jobs harder,

On the other hand, the Council's hostile reaction to Shepard in ME can be directly blamed on Cerberus and The Illusive Man. It was a simple tactic on TIM's part: by making Shepard's allies distrust him, it would make Cerberus seem like a more palatable ally AND make Shepard easier to manipulate.

As the Archangel after mission report indicates, it was a surprise that Garrus was found and recruited. Without Garrus's unexpected return, it is more than highly probable that Tali never would have become an option to recruit. TIM went way out of his way to discredit and remove all of Shep's previous allies initially; keeping Shep isolated would make him much more susceptible to manipulation. Once Garrus was on board, recruiting Tali became an option since the planned isolation had already been negated.

Prior to Garrus, it was pretty clear that TIM was surrounding Shepard with powerful but unstable or unreliable allies (a rogue Krogan Battlemaster, a Vigilante, a psychopath, and a brilliant mad scientist), with the notable exception of the two "stable" allies in Miranda and Jacob (Jacob especially was likely included to give Shepard the illusion of security).

These are not actions of an ally, but rather of someone hoping to engender a Stockholm Syndrom like reaction out of someone. It is deliberate misdirection and manipulation designed to make Cerberus seem more "normal" and less of an extremist group with the aim of converting a target who is under stressful, isolated situations.

And this is supposed to be an ally? I think not.

I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of what you said. Most of it seems like an interpretation to cast Cerberus in a more negative light.

Firstly, what makes you think TIM made Shepard's allies distrust them? And would he even need to? It sounds like someone doesn't want to believe the Council or Alliance brass could do what they did and wants to place the blame on Cerberus because of convenience. I think TIM is smart enough to know that humanity stands a better chance against the reapers if the threat is acknowledged rather than covered up as the Council and Alliance did after Shepard's death.

Secondly, must you blame TIM for everything? Wrex wanted to reunite the Krogan. Garrus was tired of the bull**** from C-Sec and went into vigilantism. Liara wanted revenge on the Shadow Broker for being responsible for the death of her friend from those comics. Tali was done with her pilgrimage and had to return to the migrant fleet. And Kaidan/Ashley was still a part of the alliance and moved on as they should have. TIM did not force any of them to do any of that. Remember that TIM had Joker and Chakwas assigned to the new Normandy. TIM wanting to isolate Shepard from the allies he is familiar with and saved the galaxy with seems like nonsense when TIM wants Shepard to go save the galaxy again.

Thirdly, Mordin's beliefs may be unorthodox, but he is far from a mad scientist. He was on Omega helping those people when nobody else was doing ****. As for the rest of that list, remember that this is a suicide mission and the goal is to build a team with variety that is the best at what they do. Each of those people, including Jack, have something to bring to the table that is significant and does have an impact (with Grunt in place of Okeer) on the outcome of the mission. TIM gave Shepard those people BECAUSE he is Shepard, because he is a leader and one of the few people in the galaxy who would be able to bring them all together and make them work.

And finally, that is a bit of an insult to Shepard I think, and just falls apart in the face of what I said before.

[Lumikki]

Inverness Moon wrote...

I'm going to have to disagree with the majority of what you said. Most of it seems like an interpretation to cast Cerberus in a more negative light.

Firstly, what makes you think TIM made Shepard's allies distrust them?
And would he even need to? It sounds like someone doesn't want to
believe the Council or Alliance brass could do what they did and wants
to place the blame on Cerberus because of convenience. I think TIM is
smart enough to know that humanity stands a better chance against the
reapers if the threat is acknowledged rather than covered up as the
Council and Alliance did after Shepard's death.

I ques it little depense what choise player made in ME1. Here is my Shepard.

First in the begin of ME2 my Shepard did inform the council and alliance that collectors was behind the lost colonies. Also they where told that I work with Serberus and still they supported my actions as making me again Specter. As Specter I'm Council's first and last defence in the Council territory. How ever, I wasn't publicly supported because I needed to operate outside of Council territory, it was basicly secrect backroom deal. Also the council continued same line than before they don't believe anything what they can't them self experience, they are politics.

Why did not Alliance then provide my Shepard resources to continue my Specter job, as it was they colonies? Because they where busy building they new Alliance fleet,  after most of them was destroyed in end of ME1 when defending Council and Citidel. It was my Shepards choise what caused this. So, my Shepard had not other choise than take the Serberus deal.

TIM supports Shepards goal to ending the destruction of human colonies and taking collectors down. How ever TIM did release rumors that Shepard have abandon Alliance and are now working with serberus. Also TIM released rumors that I was in sertain planet or my old squad members, what caused Collector attack to it. By that time Asley/Kaiden did not know that I was still active Specter. That weaken my Shepards relations to any alliance members who did not know the hole truth. I think Alliance council member did not think it's important to make they operatives to know what I was doing. Because what Shepard is doing wasn't really in big deal in they eyes.

TIM also used Sheapards squad often as bait, like situation when they did go into Collectors trap, because he thinks that Shepards behavior could change, if she would know it. Basicly meaning, TIM makes the calls and used Shepard and hope She can survey. That's pretty ruthless behavior, don't get many point from my Shepard.

Also remember that Cerberus has really bad reputation, because they have done terroris acts agaist Alliance.

Now does TIM do the right thing when support and allow Shepard to do the job. Of course he did, because he is trying to save human race. That's what is told to Shepard by TIM and Miranda. How ever, no-one even knows who TIM really is and his real motives could be anything. How ever, situation is what it is, so Shepard doesn't have any other choises than use TIM's resources and be with Cerberus. Did You believe TIM motives to be what he sayes them to be and do You trust him?

I'm sure TIM motives are what he says, as sure I can be, but hell I don't trust him.

Modifié par Lumikki, 19 mai 2010 - 02:50 .

[Jesusland]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Yeah but when you ask "WHO GIVES TIM RIGHT TO SPEAK IN NAME OF THE HUMANITY?"

I'll always reply with whoever takes that right

*drenches himself in Narcissim and arrogance*

For instance I speak in the name of Humanity!

Exactly.  Leaders aren't given that position-- they take it, and the masses choose to follow along or not.

[CherryColaLola]

^^^^^ A leader is only potent IF the masses choose to follow and obey. True power is indeed something given to leaders by the governed.

[Zulu_DFA]

Indoctrination is true power.

[CherryColaLola]

The indoctrinated still must make a concious decision to accept the doctrine.

[Zulu_DFA]

CherryColaLola wrote...

The indoctrinated still must make a concious decision to accept the doctrine.

Concious decision... or a conditioned one?

[CherryColaLola]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

CherryColaLola wrote...

The indoctrinated still must make a concious decision to accept the doctrine.

Concious decision... or a conditioned one?

Conditioned in the sense of influence from our environment certainly, I'd agree with you.  I do not believe however in conditioning as a conspiracy to control the masses.  It's no secret that commercialism owns us for instance.
Kasumi -"Got collector troubles? Look no further! Act now! Spend spend spend!"

[Pacifien]

Based on what we saw of Benezia and Saren, it would seem that something of the original person is locked away deep in mind even while they're indoctrinated. So indoctrination is false power.

True power is getting people to act willingly the way you want them to.

[Zulu_DFA]

Pacifien wrote...

Based on what we saw of Benezia and Saren, it would seem that something of the original person is locked away deep in mind even while they're indoctrinated. So indoctrination is false power.
True power is getting people to act willingly the way you want them to.

Benezia and Saren looked quite willing to kill me. They even looked smug, until I holed their heads.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Man, I just tried to read this thread using the Opera browser on the Wii. This site obviously is not optimized for that.



Also AK, if you were paying attention at all to ME 2 there is more variance to "Cerberus is GOD" you seem to be whining about. They want what they want, nothing more nothing less.

[Pacifien]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Benezia and Saren looked quite willing to kill me. They even looked smug, until I holed their heads.

Well, looks like for that power, indoctrination didn't do **** for them in the end.

[Fiannawolf]

What loyality to Cerberus? I shep-ized the whole crew and gave TIM the metaphysical finger and stole my damned normandy 2.0 back from Sir Maniac in Charge.

[DPSSOC]

Mangalores wrote...
The thing is that that's Cerberus' excuse and thus a very lopsided view.

True we aren't getting the whole story, there could be stuff we're not told about.

Mangalores wrote...
While the Council didn't openly help in ME1 it becomes very clear lateron that alot of their resources were spreading around to get behind the development even if they didn't share Shephard's theories (Salarian task forces running all around the Verge for instance).

Looking for a rogue Spectre, someone who could make them look really, really bad.  There's no threat to the Council, there's no threat to their image, the Terminus are a rough place, everybody knows it and it's not like they didn't warn them.

Mangalores wrote...
The lethargy in ME2 seem strange to me, however the problem seems more that we don't hear anything the Alliance is doing and nothing the Council is doing which is not precisely the same as them doing nothing which is imo not really explainable.

 
Point of note, if you saved the Council in ME they flat out say, "We aint gonna do squat, not our problem."

Mangalores wrote...
For instance if the Alliance was ticked off by Eden Prime they would be a hundred fold more ticked off by the Collectors and if the Council was willing to start a full investigation on events in ME1 they would have even less trouble doing so with the humans being part of the council.

The Geth gave the Alliance a single identifiable foe, the attacks in the Terminus don't offer that option as there's neither witnesses nor evidence of who's responsible except what Shepard has which they can't accept because of where it comes from.  Again Saren was something that concerned the Council/Citadel Space directly.

Mangalores wrote...
I always took it that we only hear Cerberus' very lopsided version of it all because otherwise it seems hardly plausible. It is also implied that it were only human colonies in the verge who obviously rejected Alliance and thus Council sovereignity which is why no official reactions are to be seen. Ashley/Kaidan's mission at least imply covert operations being underway.

I'll admit the Council has a legitimate reason to do nothing, it is neither their species nor their space, but they still chose to do nothing, and in doing so gave Cerberus the right to step up and take charge.

Ash/Kaidan were sent to investigate, not because colonies were going missing (one would think that'd start some time before the "hundreds of thousands" mark), but because of rumours that their greatest symbol might be working for their dirty little (not so) secret.  It's a PR move, nothing more.

Mangalores wrote...
I was also disappointed that full renegade did imply fully pro-Cerberus instead of full anti-all-those-****s-who-want-to-use-me-I-am-in-charge-now-and-do-what-it-takes.

I was actually kind of disappointed I couldn't be more pro-Cerberus.  This is kind of why I wish we had something more extensive than the dialogue wheel (though it'd be murder for VO's).  Give something like:

Paragon
- Compassionate, caring, pro-cooperation
- By the book, rules are important, to hell with personal feelings (Kinda like Executor Palin)

Neutral (can't think of a way to split it just yet)

Renegade
- Success at all cost, necessary evils, to hell with personal feelings
- Cruel, power hungry, pro-human

You know to make the system a bit more complex cause as it stands Ren Shep often comes across as mustache twirlingly evil and Para Shep comes across as a naive moron.

Mangalores wrote...
I certainly hope we can take out Cerberus in ME3 in some way or another.

I agree, but only if we're also given the option to truly join them.

Now I don't want it to come across like I'm condemning the Alliance/Council for doing nothing, I can certainly see why they wouldn't want to take action, but the fact that they didn't act, or appear to not act, is still them giving Cerberus the right to stand and speak for humanity in this issue because they won't/don't.

Modifié par DPSSOC, 20 mai 2010 - 01:15 .

[lovgreno]

DPSSOC wrote
I was actually kind of disappointed I couldn't be more pro-Cerberus.

You know to make the system a bit more complex cause as it stands Ren Shep often comes across as mustache twirlingly evil and Para Shep comes across as a naive moron.

Yes and more anti-Cerberus as well. As it is now you end up with maybe allied whatever you do. I'm sure we can come up with good reasons for both options.

The simplified and often clichéd Shepards are perhaps unavoidable. It's impossible to write a perfect story with many different options. Wich of course doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve weak parts of Shepards story.

[Mangalores]

DPSSOC wrote...
....

Mangalores wrote...
The lethargy in ME2 seem strange to me, however the problem seems more that we don't hear anything the Alliance is doing and nothing the Council is doing which is not precisely the same as them doing nothing which is imo not really explainable.

 
Point of note, if you saved the Council in ME they flat out say, "We aint gonna do squat, not our problem."

They reinstate you as a spectre to indicate that they give you their trust and kinda back you up if I find substantial proof of what is going on (so they can ignore the Cerberus part).

The Geth gave the Alliance a single identifiable foe, the attacks in the Terminus don't offer that option as there's neither witnesses nor evidence of who's responsible except what Shepard has which they can't accept because of where it comes from.  Again Saren was something that concerned the Council/Citadel Space directly.

However the Eden Prime incident didn't cause nearly as much casualties and if this happened over and extended period it is more than implausible why the Alliance would let their border deterioate.

Ash/Kaidan were sent to investigate, not because colonies were going missing (one would think that'd start some time before the "hundreds of thousands" mark), but because of rumours that their greatest symbol might be working for their dirty little (not so) secret.  It's a PR move, nothing more.

No, Anderson pulled strings so Ash/Kaidan could do this as a secondary mission. They themselves were eplicitly said to be there to investigate the disappearances and prepare defenses for another human verge colony. Good bet is thus that Anderson could pull these strings because Alliance covert ops are also looking into the disappearances, one of them being Ash/Kaidan because there is no sense in a military advisor to the Council ambassador being capable to order the fortification of a colony with heavy weapon turrets. That would/should tickle up and down a military command hierarchy who doesn't ignore the disappearances and thus sees such action a way to investigate or even stop the security threat.

You know to make the system a bit more complex cause as it stands Ren Shep often comes across as mustache twirlingly evil and Para Shep comes across as a naive moron.

Agreed.

Now I don't want it to come across like I'm condemning the Alliance/Council for doing nothing, I can certainly see why they wouldn't want to take action, but the fact that they didn't act, or appear to not act, is still them giving Cerberus the right to stand and speak for humanity in this issue because they won't/don't.

So an official governmental body appearing to do nothing gives justification to a terrorist organizations who don't tell anybody what they are actually doing? That doesn't make that much sense even if Cerberus twists it that way for their view to keep troop morale up.

Modifié par Mangalores, 22 mai 2010 - 02:46 .

[DPSSOC]

Mangalores wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
....

Mangalores wrote...
The lethargy in ME2 seem strange to me, however the problem seems more that we don't hear anything the Alliance is doing and nothing the Council is doing which is not precisely the same as them doing nothing which is imo not really explainable.

 
Point of note, if you saved the Council in ME they flat out say, "We aint gonna do squat, not our problem."

They reinstate you as a spectre to indicate that they give you their trust and kinda back you up if I find substantial proof of what is going on (so they can ignore the Cerberus part).

When you tell them the Collector's are abducting colonists the Turian councillor says, "The Terminus Systems are outside our jurisdiction, your colonists knew this when they left Council space."  Which is politic for "Go **** yourself with a railway spike we aren't gonna do a thing."  You reinstatement is, as Anderson points out, symbollic, they may as well have given you a gold star.

Mangalores wrote...

The Geth gave the Alliance a single identifiable foe, the attacks in the Terminus don't offer that option as there's neither witnesses nor evidence of who's responsible except what Shepard has which they can't accept because of where it comes from.  Again Saren was something that concerned the Council/Citadel Space directly.

However the Eden Prime incident didn't cause nearly as much casualties and if this happened over and extended period it is more than implausible why the Alliance would let their border deterioate.

It's not their border, it's not even their colonies, they have no reason to take action beyond it being their people.

Mangalores wrote...

Ash/Kaidan were sent to investigate, not because colonies were going missing (one would think that'd start some time before the "hundreds of thousands" mark), but because of rumours that their greatest symbol might be working for their dirty little (not so) secret.  It's a PR move, nothing more.

No, Anderson pulled strings so Ash/Kaidan could do this as a secondary mission. They themselves were eplicitly said to be there to investigate the disappearances and prepare defenses for another human verge colony. Good bet is thus that Anderson could pull these strings because Alliance covert ops are also looking into the disappearances, one of them being Ash/Kaidan because there is no sense in a military advisor to the Council ambassador being capable to order the fortification of a colony with heavy weapon turrets. That would/should tickle up and down a military command hierarchy who doesn't ignore the disappearances and thus sees such action a way to investigate or even stop the security threat.

Could be, we don't know enough to be sure, but it sounds plausible at least.

Mangalores wrote...

Now I don't want it to come across like I'm condemning the Alliance/Council for doing nothing, I can certainly see why they wouldn't want to take action, but the fact that they didn't act, or appear to not act, is still them giving Cerberus the right to stand and speak for humanity in this issue because they won't/don't.

So an official governmental body appearing to do nothing gives justification to a terrorist organizations who don't tell anybody what they are actually doing? That doesn't make that much sense even if Cerberus twists it that way for their view to keep troop morale up.

No if nobody stands up to act and speak for a group they give anyone who does the right to.  For example say you and 9 other people are trapped in a room.  While the other 9 are wailing about how they'll never get out and generally panicking you take charge and start organizing people to try and get out.  Now what gave you the right to do that?  The fact that nobody in the room took charge, and no legitimate authority from outside was present, is what gave you the right.

Alternatively, Batman.   What gives Batman the right to go out at night and beat the tar out of thugs and criminals?  The fact that nobody else can/will.

[Zulu_DFA]

Mangalores wrote...

....However the Eden Prime incident didn't cause nearly as much casualties and if this happened over and extended period it is more than implausible why the Alliance would let their border deterioate.

Eden Prime was one of the oldest, biggest and richest Alliance colonies. It was hit in force leaving thousands of civilian casualties and picturousque Extranet footage. Moreover, Cmdr. Shepard reporteв that a bomb was planted capable of obliterationg the entire capital, pushing the death toll in the millions.

The attacks in the Terminus were targetting the breakaway (mormon-like) colonies, that were of no concern to the Alliance. Those colonies were small, a few thousand t most. Horizon was probably the biggeas and oldest of all of them.

The Alliance sent a mission there when tipped off by TIM that something big was upcoming there with the participation of Cmdr. Shepard. Then TIM tipped off the Collectors. Thus he had full initiative, played everyone and achieved multiple goals, including damaging the Collector ship, which led to Shepard's next mission, and demonstrating the Alliance what's going on with the breakaway human colonies.