127 réponses à ce sujet

[Zy-El]

Seifz wrote...

No, that isn't an accurate statement.  It's true that everyone has different hardware and software.  It's also true that the bugs I'm writing about shouldn't be affected by these differences.  Remember, we're talking about scripting bugs.  I'll give a few examples, and I'll try to avoid spoilers.

1.  If you don't complete the three main quests in a specific order, you will recruit companions that instantly receive +100 approval.  However, they're listed at +100 (Neutral), do not have any of the bonus skills, and do not share their personal quests with the player.  The only way to fix this problem is with the debug console.  This bug affects Justice, Sigrun, and Velanna.

2.  The plot encounters for Lilith the Merchant and Velanna's clan do not trigger properly.  Not recruiting Lilith prevents the player from completing the Trade Must Flow quest, an integral part of preparing for the end game and necessary for earning the The Enduring Vigil achievement.  Not encountering Velanna's clan blocks the player from completing her personal quest.  Both encounters are spawnable with the debug console, but there is no other fix.

3.  There is a less common bug that traps players in the marsh, near the dragon encounter.  Loading an old save and playing the area again does not fix the problem.  I was not victim to this bug, and I do not know what causes it, but again it's fixable only through the debug console.

In all three cases, we're talking about bugs in the game scripts.  The scripts should function the same for everyone, regardless of hardware and software configuration (the exceptions being an unsupported operating sytem, such as Linux, and third-party mods).  These are the same sorts of bugs that Qwinn was able to fix for Origins.  We shouldn't need to rely on altruism from Qwinn and other community members to make the game playable.  And again, I don't know of any community fixes for Awakening that don't involve "play the game in this specific order and avoid these quests" or the debug console.

I've not encountered any of bugs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above.  Any my PC is 4-years-old running Windows XP so it is not by any means a powerhouse gaming machine and yet, it does run Origins and Awakening with patch 1.03.  I know that players with the latest hardware and software configs cannot do this.  If it's a simple scripting error, why is it that the scripts work properly on my PC and not yours?? 

[Seifz]

Zy-El wrote...

Seifz wrote...

No, that isn't an accurate statement.  It's true that everyone has different hardware and software.  It's also true that the bugs I'm writing about shouldn't be affected by these differences.  Remember, we're talking about scripting bugs.  I'll give a few examples, and I'll try to avoid spoilers.

1.  If you don't complete the three main quests in a specific order, you will recruit companions that instantly receive +100 approval.  However, they're listed at +100 (Neutral), do not have any of the bonus skills, and do not share their personal quests with the player.  The only way to fix this problem is with the debug console.  This bug affects Justice, Sigrun, and Velanna.

2.  The plot encounters for Lilith the Merchant and Velanna's clan do not trigger properly.  Not recruiting Lilith prevents the player from completing the Trade Must Flow quest, an integral part of preparing for the end game and necessary for earning the The Enduring Vigil achievement.  Not encountering Velanna's clan blocks the player from completing her personal quest.  Both encounters are spawnable with the debug console, but there is no other fix.

3.  There is a less common bug that traps players in the marsh, near the dragon encounter.  Loading an old save and playing the area again does not fix the problem.  I was not victim to this bug, and I do not know what causes it, but again it's fixable only through the debug console.

In all three cases, we're talking about bugs in the game scripts.  The scripts should function the same for everyone, regardless of hardware and software configuration (the exceptions being an unsupported operating sytem, such as Linux, and third-party mods).  These are the same sorts of bugs that Qwinn was able to fix for Origins.  We shouldn't need to rely on altruism from Qwinn and other community members to make the game playable.  And again, I don't know of any community fixes for Awakening that don't involve "play the game in this specific order and avoid these quests" or the debug console.

I've not encountered any of bugs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above.  Any my PC is 4-years-old running Windows XP so it is not by any means a powerhouse gaming machine and yet, it does run Origins and Awakening with patch 1.03.  I know that players with the latest hardware and software configs cannot do this.  If it's a simple scripting error, why is it that the scripts work properly on my PC and not yours?? 

Because you played the quests in a different order than I did.  Seriously.

[Haexpane]

Seifz wrote...
 
  I needed to use the debug console to finish the game properly.  That is entirely unacceptable.
It's still wrong.

Hmm, I would say most players have reported being able to finish the game without the console debug.
I finished it on the PS3 and there is no cheat mode to work with there.

Did I notice Awakenings bugs?  Of course,  the DLC graphics bug bothered me the most.  But nothing was game stopping on my 1 playthrough

[Zy-El]

Seifz wrote...

Zy-El wrote...

Seifz wrote...
...
1.  If you don't complete the three main quests in a specific order, you will recruit companions that instantly receive +100 approval.  However, they're listed at +100 (Neutral), do not have any of the bonus skills, and do not share their personal quests with the player.  The only way to fix this problem is with the debug console.  This bug affects Justice, Sigrun, and Velanna.

2.  The plot encounters for Lilith the Merchant and Velanna's clan do not trigger properly.  Not recruiting Lilith prevents the player from completing the Trade Must Flow quest, an integral part of preparing for the end game and necessary for earning the The Enduring Vigil achievement.  Not encountering Velanna's clan blocks the player from completing her personal quest.  Both encounters are spawnable with the debug console, but there is no other fix.

3.  There is a less common bug that traps players in the marsh, near the dragon encounter.  Loading an old save and playing the area again does not fix the problem.  I was not victim to this bug, and I do not know what causes it, but again it's fixable only through the debug console.

In all three cases, we're talking about bugs in the game scripts.  The scripts should function the same for everyone, regardless of hardware and software configuration (the exceptions being an unsupported operating sytem, such as Linux, and third-party mods).  These are the same sorts of bugs that Qwinn was able to fix for Origins.  We shouldn't need to rely on altruism from Qwinn and other community members to make the game playable.  And again, I don't know of any community fixes for Awakening that don't involve "play the game in this specific order and avoid these quests" or the debug console.

I've not encountered any of bugs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above.  Any my PC is 4-years-old running Windows XP so it is not by any means a powerhouse gaming machine and yet, it does run Origins and Awakening with patch 1.03.  I know that players with the latest hardware and software configs cannot do this.  If it's a simple scripting error, why is it that the scripts work properly on my PC and not yours?? 

Because you played the quests in a different order than I did.  Seriously.

Hmmm . . . after doing another play-through of Awakenings and changing up the order of quests, I did encounter some more bugs - some of what you mentioned.  Still did not get #1 or #3.  I did manage to still get Lillith but not Velanna's clan encounter.

Yes, I believe you are RIGHT about this being a scripting error.  And I did try playing things in a different order just to prove your point.  Thank you.

Despite these bugs, there are no game-breaking bugs.  Inconvenient and loss of gaming satisfaction - YES!  However, I have to be confident that someone (be it Bioware or someone like Qwinn) will fix these minor scripting bugs in time.  I remain optimistic. 

[Seifz]

Zy-El wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Zy-El wrote...

Seifz wrote...
...
1.  If you don't complete the three main quests in a specific order, you will recruit companions that instantly receive +100 approval.  However, they're listed at +100 (Neutral), do not have any of the bonus skills, and do not share their personal quests with the player.  The only way to fix this problem is with the debug console.  This bug affects Justice, Sigrun, and Velanna.

2.  The plot encounters for Lilith the Merchant and Velanna's clan do not trigger properly.  Not recruiting Lilith prevents the player from completing the Trade Must Flow quest, an integral part of preparing for the end game and necessary for earning the The Enduring Vigil achievement.  Not encountering Velanna's clan blocks the player from completing her personal quest.  Both encounters are spawnable with the debug console, but there is no other fix.

3.  There is a less common bug that traps players in the marsh, near the dragon encounter.  Loading an old save and playing the area again does not fix the problem.  I was not victim to this bug, and I do not know what causes it, but again it's fixable only through the debug console.

In all three cases, we're talking about bugs in the game scripts.  The scripts should function the same for everyone, regardless of hardware and software configuration (the exceptions being an unsupported operating sytem, such as Linux, and third-party mods).  These are the same sorts of bugs that Qwinn was able to fix for Origins.  We shouldn't need to rely on altruism from Qwinn and other community members to make the game playable.  And again, I don't know of any community fixes for Awakening that don't involve "play the game in this specific order and avoid these quests" or the debug console.

I've not encountered any of bugs 1, 2 or 3 mentioned above.  Any my PC is 4-years-old running Windows XP so it is not by any means a powerhouse gaming machine and yet, it does run Origins and Awakening with patch 1.03.  I know that players with the latest hardware and software configs cannot do this.  If it's a simple scripting error, why is it that the scripts work properly on my PC and not yours?? 

Because you played the quests in a different order than I did.  Seriously.

Hmmm . . . after doing another play-through of Awakenings and changing up the order of quests, I did encounter some more bugs - some of what you mentioned.  Still did not get #1 or #3.  I did manage to still get Lillith but not Velanna's clan encounter.

Yes, I believe you are RIGHT about this being a scripting error.  And I did try playing things in a different order just to prove your point.  Thank you.

Despite these bugs, there are no game-breaking bugs.  Inconvenient and loss of gaming satisfaction - YES!  However, I have to be confident that someone (be it Bioware or someone like Qwinn) will fix these minor scripting bugs in time.  I remain optimistic. 

I'd be more optimistic if they even took the time to acknowledge the existance of these bugs.  To address your other points:

 - I find it odd that you've completed the game twice, doing the three main quests in a different order, and you haven't at all encountered the first bug.  It's really easy to trigger.  In my first playthrough, I did all of the side quests available, then the marsh, then the Velanna thing, then the thaig.  All 3 companions had the bug.

 - I consider bug #3 game breaking.  There's no escape unless you use the console to jump to another area.  You can't even reload and try again.  The first two bugs are damn close since they prevent you from completing important quests (such as Trade Must Flow and multiple companion quests).

 - Qwinn has stated that he won't fix Awakening.  Perhaps somebody else will, but that's not an acceptable solution.

 Finally, I'd like to ask if anyone has a work around for the following problem.  I completed Sigrun's quest last and recruited her last.  When I returned to the Keep, I was not able to initiate the dialogue to begin her Joining.  I was only able to go to war or wait.  Is there any way to complete this quest if you pick up Sigrun last?!  Bah!

[flagondotcom]

Seifz wrote...
I completed Sigrun's quest last and recruited her last.  When I returned to the Keep, I was not able to initiate the dialogue to begin her Joining.  I was only able to go to war or wait.  Is there any way to complete this quest if you pick up Sigrun last?!  Bah!

The only way around this issue (last party NPC can't go through the Joining) is to either make the last NPC you obtain someone who doesn't need to (re)join the Wardens, or to bring the NPC to Varel before they mention joining.

Both Velanna and Sigrun will join in the middle of their respective quest arcs, well before they ever show any interest in so doing.

I can't decide whether this is a bug or not, but it's certainly not handled properly in the dialog (the NPC is already a Warden, but the dialog for "I'd like to join" still is what is played at the end of the quest arc.)

[Zy-El]

For bug#1, I heard mention in one of the other threads that it has to do with the Blight Orphans' quests. I did those quests once (did not encounter the +100 bug) and chose not to do those quests again - just found them to be lame and a drain on my resources and time. I've completed the game 3 times and have not encountered the +100 approval bug though I did get +/- approval from companions who were not present (that's a different bug).

For bug#3, the only time I got stuck in this area was when one of my companions or my PC got trapped between the horns of the dragon skull. Just made sure that no one was trapped between the dragon's horns and I was able to exit the area fine. So, technically, I've never had this bug stop me from completing the game.

Yes, I know about Qwinn's position on fixing Awakening. I found a bug/exploit in his fixpack and let him know about it. A shame since I know he could probably fix all the scripting errors in Awakening. Yes, I agree with you - it's not right, but it is what it is. All the screaming in the world is not going to change that - only raise your blood pressure. Better to sit back and take it for what it is. 

For Sigrun's Joining, you have to talk to Varel before completing the Broodmother quest.  Right after recruiting Sigrun, go back to the Keep and initiate the Joining.  Like flagdotcom said, the dialogue gets kinda screwed up.

Modifié par Zy-El, 26 mai 2010 - 02:18 .

[sonsonthebia07]

I've had the +100 bug happen to Justice the very second he officially joins the party. He was the last I recruited.



I've never had the encounter with Velanna's clan.



I've had issues with a few encounters in the same "redrock" textured areas where the map does not display. One was a fight over a bridge, another was a fight against dragons.





I haven't noticed anything else so far that was worth noting.

[worksa8]

Bioware won't patch the game, sell it/trade it, then move on. Either that or keep playing it, those are your only options. I suggest the former.

[Demx]

The latest patch for the PS3 will tell you what Bioware considers game-breaking and requires patching immediately.



Requirements for a patch

1. OS patch conflicts (If you put the disk in and it won't play at all)

2. Unable to download DLC

[blu_skye]

Siradix wrote...

The latest patch for the PS3 will tell you what Bioware considers game-breaking and requires patching immediately.

Requirements for a patch
1. OS patch conflicts (If you put the disk in and it won't play at all)
2. Unable to download DLC

I think your close, but it is more likely unable to pay for DLC is a "game breaker".  There is simply no excuse for what went on with Awakening.  None. 

I'm sorry I bought the product.  I won't be making that mistake again.  There is no way in hell the mod community should be fixing the product.  We paid for a product that is substantially as advertised.  Aside from it just wasn't very good in the 1st place.  I can understand a few modest bugs but completely getting stuck, the silverite mine fiasco, the inability to get individual quests are signficant portions of the content are simply unacceptable. I paid good money to have a reasonably complete experience.  I didn't get what I paid for and I'm done with this product.  I feel like we've been ripped off. No more expansions for me and I'm going to wait for a while to see if DA2 is worth my $$$ or not.

[Gelangweilt]

blu_skye wrote...

Siradix wrote...

The latest patch for the PS3 will tell you what Bioware considers game-breaking and requires patching immediately.

Requirements for a patch
1. OS patch conflicts (If you put the disk in and it won't play at all)
2. Unable to download DLC

I think your close, but it is more likely unable to pay for DLC is a "game breaker".  There is simply no excuse for what went on with Awakening.  None. 

I'm sorry I bought the product.  I won't be making that mistake again.  There is no way in hell the mod community should be fixing the product.  We paid for a product that is substantially as advertised.  Aside from it just wasn't very good in the 1st place.  I can understand a few modest bugs but completely getting stuck, the silverite mine fiasco, the inability to get individual quests are signficant portions of the content are simply unacceptable. I paid good money to have a reasonably complete experience.  I didn't get what I paid for and I'm done with this product.  I feel like we've been ripped off. No more expansions for me and I'm going to wait for a while to see if DA2 is worth my $$$ or not.

totally agree with you
all the whining here wont help.
the only thing that will let them know that their customers are unhappy is when you dont buy any future bioware crap
i am totally disappointed about how they handle the situation and how greedy they are actually.

[Addai]

Pentier wrote...

So here we are 2 months after the release of Awakening and there still has been no patch to fix major game breaking issues plus the many quest bugs that makes them impossible to complete.  

Am i the only one who feels like this?

(husband posting)


I'm not suprised.   I've seen worse from MMO's, games that can have problems go on for years, while at the same time charge you a monthly subscription.

[LIKASOMBODEE]

Bioware are a bunch of ******, if you come on the forum and tell us straight up you guys aren't making a patch instead of giving lies than i'll leave you ****bags alone.

[Bahlgan]

I can relate to all the stress going on here. Spoilers aside, I am going through a certain bug, see my other thread for details (Quests and such) which is causing me to just have a heart attack. I am just fresh out of the teenage years, I admit, and having a heart attack or anything like that due to anticipation to having my perfectly created files all scratched up all of a sudden is NOT on my to-do list...



I cannot believe that there is no patch out yet. If getting a great game out with minimal bugs before a quick deadline was the problem, one might think they would spend more time correcting the bugs. This IS the supposed RPG game of the year right? I would like to have Bioware prove it with their valiant efforts in fixing all the "****** in your pants" issues.



Cause I'll tell you what: I got a PS3, which eliminates me from the crowd which can use mods... Talk about getting screwed over

[Kalcalan]

Seifz wrote...

Zy-El wrote...

Bioware has to be focused on revenue - that's the main purpose of any viable company. The only time they'll give out anything for free is when it can lead to more sales. In order to survive, they have to make money. Therefore, it is in Bioware's best interests to make a better product. The fact that DA is Game of the Year gives more impetus to dedicate resources to this project and I'm all the more happy for it.

But that's not true.  Take a glance at Neverwinter Nights.  They provided patches for that game years after its release.  Indeed, patch 1.69 came long after new copies of the game were taken off the shelves at most stores.  BioWare, before EA, was a fantastic company that actually supported is products.  Did they make money?  Yeah, lots of it.

The patch is being worked on - be patient . . . and start a new character!

It's been months since we've had any news at all, even a "we're still working on it" post.  I understand that console patches are few and far between due to restrictions set by Microsoft and Sony, but the PC platfom has no such restrictions.  There's no reason to make us wait 3+ months for one giant patch when they could be releasing smaller patches to fix the major, game-breaking bugs in Awakening.

There's no point in starting a new character when both campaigns are bugged to hell right now.

Very good point about NWN. Patches for NWN kept bringing new things and better in game options years after the game had been released.

I personally don't want to wade through spoilers and use the console to
complete the game so I've been postponing my progress through Awakening because of some of the bugs that have been mentioned already. In the meantime I'm using some unofficial mods to fix things that patch 1.03 has broken in Origins.

Truth be told, I'm not really happy with the latest patch breaking things like stealing for instance. I've also started getting crashes that I never experienced with previous patches.

It's not that I don't like the game. I love it. Still, I wish there was more support from Bioware, some of the bugs that plague the original game (like the crashing when
entering the Chantry in Lothering or Jowan's quest location marker not
showing up during the Landsmeet) shouldn't be that hard to fix.

[Zy-El]

Qwinn's Unofficial Patchfix will fix the stealing bug in 1.03 as well as a number of minor bugs in Origins. Since installing his patchfix, I've been playing Origins + Awakening all the way through for each character = 90 hrs of fun!

[pvpgirl]

Zy-El wrote...

Qwinn's Unofficial Patchfix will fix the stealing bug in 1.03 as well as a number of minor bugs in Origins. Since installing his patchfix, I've been playing Origins + Awakening all the way through for each character = 90 hrs of fun!

Yes, Qwinn's Pack.  Well, it doesn't fix the crashing (not that I'm blaming him for that, just saying), and the things it does fix, are not so game breaking that I can't live without them getting fixed. 

/sigh 

Why, Bioware?  When you went EA, it's like all customer service ideals went out the window.  The name Bioware used to mean 'good product'.  I dare not say what it means now.

[Demx]

If I was Bioware, I would email Qwinn, pay the dude some money and modify the code so that it would work on all the systems. Just saying...

[Zy-El]

nvm

Modifié par Zy-El, 28 mai 2010 - 08:57 .

[Ildaron]

Siradix wrote...

If I was Bioware, I would email Qwinn, pay the dude some money and modify the code so that it would work on all the systems. Just saying...

And then pay Qwinn to fix Awaeknings, give him the title Head of Q&A. Replace the current patch team with him and whoever helped him. Jobs are hard to come by in this econmey and I'd only pay for people who produce results or kept the customers happy.

[Sylvius the Mad]

1.02a was a good patch, and if you didn't like any part of it (like the spell nerfs) you could mod that out. There's no reason to complain about the state of the game when BioWare has released a patch that solves the vast majority of problems and forces nothing unwanted onto you.

If you don't like 1.03 (I don't), then don't install 1.03 (I didn't). I'm very happy with the support BioWare has given DAO so far.

[Wicked 702]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

1.02a was a good patch, and if you didn't like any part of it (like the spell nerfs) you could mod that out. There's no reason to complain about the state of the game when BioWare has released a patch that solves the vast majority of problems and forces nothing unwanted onto you.
If you don't like 1.03 (I don't), then don't install 1.03 (I didn't). I'm very happy with the support BioWare has given DAO so far.

Congrats, you're on a PC. You have the ability to download fixes that community members had to make themselves because the developing company has failed to support its own product.

Now what do you suggest the other 2/3 of the users of this product do? (Console players) 1.03 was forced on us.

To make the assertion that the support Bioware has provided is adequate is frankly laughable. Mod fixes are not the same as real patchwork. They are temporary solutions to permanent problems. Come on.....

[Bahlgan]

Wicked 702 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

1.02a was a good patch, and if you didn't like any part of it (like the spell nerfs) you could mod that out. There's no reason to complain about the state of the game when BioWare has released a patch that solves the vast majority of problems and forces nothing unwanted onto you.
If you don't like 1.03 (I don't), then don't install 1.03 (I didn't). I'm very happy with the support BioWare has given DAO so far.

Congrats, you're on a PC. You have the ability to download fixes that community members had to make themselves because the developing company has failed to support its own product.

Now what do you suggest the other 2/3 of the users of this product do? (Console players) 1.03 was forced on us.

To make the assertion that the support Bioware has provided is adequate is frankly laughable. Mod fixes are not the same as real patchwork. They are temporary solutions to permanent problems. Come on.....

Agreed. No disrespect towards others, but PC players need to realize that there are those who have to man up and push through the console systems. At the rate Bioware is treating the console players, I was thinking about buying it for PC, until my last computer fried out! That being said, I think it would be cool if there were some bug fixes drawn by independent individuals in the console systems. I mean the consoles currently use online capabilities; I do not see how it cannot be done with flash drive or any USB port.

Do Xboxs has any of those?

[Kalcalan]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

1.02a was a good patch, and if you didn't like any part of it (like the spell nerfs) you could mod that out. There's no reason to complain about the state of the game when BioWare has released a patch that solves the vast majority of problems and forces nothing unwanted onto you.
If you don't like 1.03 (I don't), then don't install 1.03 (I didn't). I'm very happy with the support BioWare has given DAO so far.

FYI you can't play Awakening without 1.03.

I for one don't think it is normal for a company like Bioware to release a patch that breaks things instead of fixing bugs. We shouldn't have to use third party mods to play the game as it was intended. But it's always nice to see that some players find it quite normal...

Modifié par Kalcalan, 28 mai 2010 - 11:40 .