142 réponses à ce sujet

[pvpgirl]

sami jo wrote...

I've seen devs on the forums going on about how low the sales for expansions and DLCs are as the explanation for why they have been so...underwhelming. Perhaps the sales would be better if every new piece of content wasn't more "meh" than the last.

And we have a winner!  Now if we could just get EAWare to realize that.

[Ingrimm22]

I agree with most of you. This DLC is a total disgrace and if Bioware keeps this up it will damage the franchise for good. Bioware, for the love of god, no one needs short and ****ty DLCs every two months, just concentrate on real expansions like Awakening and if you got nothing left to fill another Add-On of this size, then, for heavens sake, so be it and concentrate on the full fledged sequel. DA:O and Awakening where phemomenal, this rest doesn't even live on the same planet.



Same thing with Mass Effect by the way: Short and cheap DLCs are a waste of everyone's time and money.

[Hulk Hsieh]

sami jo wrote...

I've seen devs on the forums going on about how low the sales for expansions and DLCs are as the explanation for why they have been so...underwhelming. Perhaps the sales would be better if every new piece of content wasn't more "meh" than the last.

Yes. It really sounds like a losing cycle to go:

Less people buy DLC => Smaller Budget => Less content for bucks than full game => Even less people buy DLC

[Brockololly]

sami jo wrote...

I've seen devs on the forums going on about how low the sales for expansions and DLCs are as the explanation for why they have been so...underwhelming. Perhaps the sales would be better if every new piece of content wasn't more "meh" than the last.

Really? I'm just curious where you saw a dev post saying the DLC or Awakening hasn't sold well. I don't debate the mediocrity of the DLC or Awakening, but I'm curious where the aforementioned dev posts are.

Ingrimm22 wrote...

I agree with most of you. This DLC is a total disgrace and if Bioware keeps this up it will damage the franchise for good. Bioware, for the love of god, no one needs short and ****ty DLCs every two months, just concentrate on real expansions like Awakening and if you got nothing left to fill another Add-On of this size, then, for heavens sake, so be it and concentrate on the full fledged sequel. DA:O and Awakening where phemomenal, this rest doesn't even live on the same planet.

Same thing with Mass Effect by the way: Short and cheap DLCs are a waste of everyone's time and money.

Totally agree. If they want to make short experimental DLC thats fine. But the issue with DC is that it just totally ignores everything that made Origins compelling. I've got money to burn BioWare. I'd love to shell out some $$$ on Dragon Age DLC, ex-packs or games. But only if its of the same quality that I've come to expect from BioWare going back to the days of Baldur's Gate. I really believe that as easy or profitable as it may be to make dinky DLC like Darkspawn Chronicles, in the long run it only hurts the Dragon Age name as a franchise. Instead of hearing BioWare and thinking great story driven games, people start thinking rinky-dink, rubbish DLC.  At this point I wish they would just stop with the short stuff and make longer story driven DLC, even if they charge more for it.

Modifié par Brockololly, 22 mai 2010 - 12:48 .

[Mlai00]

Unworthy DLC that I wouldn't buy even if I dl'ed patch 1.03. My blind DAO love has expired, and if Bioware wants more money from me, they have to give me value.

Here's a Darkspawn DLC that I would purchase for $5, and which I consider realistic in terms of production cost for Bioware:

Ser Gilmore escapes the sack of Highever with a small band of Highever guards. Ser Gilmore's VA should demand only reasonable wages since he's a side chara. Anyways, his band decides to trek to Ostagar to petition to the king. But on the way, they get ambushed and hunted by Darkspawn through 2 towns. You lead that DS warband.

So you get to play: The forest ambush where you rout Gilmore's band. The first town you chase Gilmore through where you rout him again, then sack the town and kill everyone in it. And then some more chasing-hunting. And finally in the 2nd town Gilmore makes his stand, because he cannot in good conscience leave another town to burn again while he escapes with his own life.

Thru-out this ordeal (for Gilmore), you get cutscenes of his band's declining morale, his guilt over the 1st town, and finally his decision to die defending the ppl of Fereldan, even though his spirit had been worn and shattered by your relentless pursuit.

After you kill Gilmore, you (the Vanguard) is shown taking his sword, and your Forgemaster refashions it into Blightblood for you.

Then the Vanguard and his warband becomes a DAO sidequest which you (the Warden) can go defeat (in the ruined 2nd town), and claim his sword the Blightblood. Make sure the Vanguard is one tuff F'er to kill. To make it satisfying.

A DLC like this would have no more voice-acting than WK or RtO, none of whom are the main VAs who might be difficult to get ahold of. New areas only include a forest and 2 little towns. And it's something that prolongs the main quest. And has emotional relevance. And you got to play with DS. I'd pay $7-10 for it.

Once DAO gets a good patch, that is.

[pvpgirl]

Mlai00 wrote...

Unworthy DLC that I wouldn't buy even if I dl'ed patch 1.03. My blind DAO love has expired, and if Bioware wants more money from me, they have to give me value.
Here's a Darkspawn DLC that I would purchase for $5, and which I consider realistic in terms of production cost for Bioware:
Ser Gilmore escapes the sack of Highever with a small band of Highever guards. Ser Gilmore's VA should demand only reasonable wages since he's a side chara. Anyways, his band decides to trek to Ostagar to petition to the king. But on the way, they get ambushed and hunted by Darkspawn through 2 towns. You lead that DS warband.
So you get to play: The forest ambush where you rout Gilmore's band. The first town you chase Gilmore through where you rout him again, then sack the town and kill everyone in it. And then some more chasing-hunting. And finally in the 2nd town Gilmore makes his stand, because he cannot in good conscience leave another town to burn again while he escapes with his own life.
Thru-out this ordeal (for Gilmore), you get cutscenes of his band's declining morale, his guilt over the 1st town, and finally his decision to die defending the ppl of Fereldan, even though his spirit had been worn and shattered by your relentless pursuit.
After you kill Gilmore, you (the Vanguard) is shown taking his sword, and your Forgemaster refashions it into Blightblood for you.
Then the Vanguard and his warband becomes a DAO sidequest which you (the Warden) can go defeat (in the ruined 2nd town), and claim his sword the Blightblood. Make sure the Vanguard is one tuff F'er to kill. To make it satisfying.
A DLC like this would have no more voice-acting than WK or RtO, none of whom are the main VAs who might be difficult to get ahold of. New areas only include a forest and 2 little towns. And it's something that prolongs the main quest. And has emotional relevance. And you got to play with DS. I'd pay $7-10 for it.
Once DAO gets a good patch, that is.

Now that is a dlc I could get behind.  And the tie in is just awesome.   Not so sure about Gilmore, as it wouldn't mean much to a dwarf, elf or mage that some random knight was getting chased, but there are quite a few early, minor characters that touch each race that could be used that didn't have high profile VA's that would be really expensive.

[Mlai00]

I referred to Gilmore specifically because:

(1) Most ppl have played/tried the human noble origin.

(2) He's a likeable chara (as in not annoying like some).

(3) He's a human in Fereldan, so he has direct relevance/stake to the kingdom's plight. The main overarching story in DAO really is about the humans.

[Yrkoon]

RageGT wrote...
.Seriously, it is a lot of a fun for lousy 400 points (5 bucks) which I usually spend in 30 secs on a burguer or in a day on a pack of cigarretes.

Domyk wrote...
5 dollars?  So you will have to sacrifice your extra value meal consisting of a Big Mac, Fries and Coke this week.....

Most. Worn. Out. Comparisons. Ever.

Ok, people.  How hard is it to understand that when we say "It's not worth 5 bucks" we're not saying that 5 bucks is a lot of money,  Nor are we implying that  this DLC is the only thing in the world that is a waste of 5 bucks.

What we're saying is that the monitary value of this DLC does not justify paying 5 bucks.  And it doesn't.  There's mods out there that feature more content and a better story....and they're FREE.    Some of us  have also been around long enough to know that  Bioware USED to put out bigger mods with more content in them, and they used to charge LESS.  (or have we forgotten NWN's Premium mods?)

Oh and PS.  I  only paid 4 bucks for a pack of cigarettes this morning.  And have gotten more satisfaction from it than I have from Darkspawn chronicals today.    My 4 dollar pack of cigarettes also  lasted me a hell of alot longer than 45 minutes.  So there.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 23 mai 2010 - 03:55 .

[2pac Shakur]

Yrkoon wrote...

RageGT wrote...
.Seriously, it is a lot of a fun for lousy 400 points (5 bucks) which I usually spend in 30 secs on a burguer or in a day on a pack of cigarretes.

Domyk wrote...
5 dollars?  So you will have to sacrifice your extra value meal consisting of a Big Mac, Fries and Coke this week.....

Most. Worn. Out. Comparisons. Ever.

Ok, people.  How hard is it to understand that when we say "It's not worth 5 bucks" we're not saying that 5 bucks is a lot of money,  Nor are we implying that  this DLC is the only thing in the world that is a waste of 5 bucks.

What we're saying is that the monitary value of this DLC does not justify paying 5 bucks.  And it doesn't.  There's .

how about for free?

[Sidney]

Brockololly wrote...
Totally agree. If they want to make short experimental DLC thats fine. But the issue with DC is that it just totally ignores everything that made Origins compelling. I've got money to burn BioWare. I'd love to shell out some $$$ on Dragon Age DLC, ex-packs or games. But only if its of the same quality that I've come to expect from BioWare going back to the days of Baldur's Gate. I really believe that as easy or profitable as it may be to make dinky DLC like Darkspawn Chronicles, in the long run it only hurts the Dragon Age name as a franchise. Instead of hearing BioWare and thinking great story driven games, people start thinking rinky-dink, rubbish DLC.  At this point I wish they would just stop with the short stuff and make longer story driven DLC, even if they charge more for it.

I'm not sure where "dinky" comes from. This is what DLC is right now, really across a lot of games and platforms. They are 1-2 hour episodes. That's the spot that the market is at and for the $5 - $7 price point that seems like a right price for 1-2 hours of entertainment.

I don't think it hurts the game as long as they are clear what the DLC is. I get that some people don't dig on this particular DLC but there wasn't any effort at decption as to what this'd be. It did what it was advertised to do and other than some video chop did it well.

[Brockololly]

Sidney wrote...

I'm not sure where "dinky" comes from. This is what DLC is right now, really across a lot of games and platforms. They are 1-2 hour episodes. That's the spot that the market is at and for the $5 - $7 price point that seems like a right price for 1-2 hours of entertainment.

I don't think it hurts the game as long as they are clear what the DLC is. I get that some people don't dig on this particular DLC but there wasn't any effort at decption as to what this'd be. It did what it was advertised to do and other than some video chop did it well.

I have no problem with BioWare making short 1-2 hour, $5 DLC. But DLC can be done way better, IMO. Just look at the Fallout 3 DLC or the DLC for GTAIV- more substantial, story focused content, which is what I expect from BioWare, not short hack-n-slash. BioWare is known primarily for story telling and there is none of that in DC.

Sure its just DLC and no one is forcing you to buy it. But with the whole darkspawn chronicles thing they advertised it as this "alternate universe" making it seem like an interesting "what-if" scenario. Instead what you get is no dialogue, re-hashed cutscenes and next to no story, even in the codex. I'm supposed to buy into this alternate reality where Morrigan's motivation for fighting with Alistair to the death was simply for teh LULZ!?

[Sidney]

Brockololly wrote...

I have no problem with BioWare making short 1-2 hour, $5 DLC. But DLC can be done way better, IMO. Just look at the Fallout 3 DLC or the DLC for GTAIV- more substantial, story focused content, which is what I expect from BioWare, not short hack-n-slash. BioWare is known primarily for story telling and there is none of that in DC.

GTA's DLC was a much bigger expansion type thing so I'd call the FO3 stuff a better comparison but really for me only Point Lookout was "well-done" DLC - Operation Anchroage was "fake" stuff and The Pit/Mothership Whatever wasn't any good.

Point Lookout is the best of the "normal" sized DLC around but even there that was about as plot thin as you can get despite the nifty setting.

[Brockololly]

Sidney wrote...
GTA's DLC was a much bigger expansion type thing so I'd call the FO3 stuff a better comparison but really for me only Point Lookout was "well-done" DLC - Operation Anchroage was "fake" stuff and The Pit/Mothership Whatever wasn't any good.

Point Lookout is the best of the "normal" sized DLC around but even there that was about as plot thin as you can get despite the nifty setting.

I'd agree that Point lookout was good but Broken Steel was pretty good too, IMO. Anyway, I was just using those as examples of the kind of DLC  or episodic content/expansions that I'd prefer to see out of BioWare.

Just seems to me that at least with something like Point Lookout for Fallout3, it felt like a new area separate from the Wasteland. Most of the stuff we've gotten so far outside of Shale and Warden's Keep is just re-used or ever so slightly different assets from the main game. I get that its cheaper that way and all, but to me at least it just feels cheap too.

I'd just prefer that instead of doing little hack-n-slash stuff, BioWare did some DLC that moved the story forward or added to the lore in a meaningful way. The last 2 DLC's haven't done any of that.

[Merci357]

Sidney wrote...

GTA's DLC was a much bigger expansion type thing so I'd call the FO3 stuff a better comparison but really for me only Point Lookout was "well-done" DLC - Operation Anchroage was "fake" stuff and The Pit/Mothership Whatever wasn't any good.

Point Lookout is the best of the "normal" sized DLC around but even there that was about as plot thin as you can get despite the nifty setting.

I still regard the Fallout 3 DLC as superior to anything BioWare has done so far regarding DLC, just because each DLC felt substantial, basically they all added a little bit of everything Fallout 3 is, scavenging, adventuring, combat, and some quests. I regard Broken Steel even as essential to the game.

Brockololly wrote...

I'd just prefer that instead of doing little hack-n-slash stuff, BioWare did some DLC that moved the story forward or added to the lore in a meaningful way. The last 2 DLC's haven't done any of that.

Imho RtO was fine. Nothing breaktaking, but it offered a little bit of everything DA is in essential. Some story, some lore, some combat, and -at least- a little bit of dialogue. DSC had nothing besides combat. And, honestly, the reason I like BioWare games isn't the gameplay mechanics, it's story, dialogue, choices.

Modifié par Merci357, 24 mai 2010 - 11:18 .

[shadowc116]

Merci357 wrote...

Sidney wrote...

GTA's DLC was a much bigger expansion type thing so I'd call the FO3 stuff a better comparison but really for me only Point Lookout was "well-done" DLC - Operation Anchroage was "fake" stuff and The Pit/Mothership Whatever wasn't any good.

Point Lookout is the best of the "normal" sized DLC around but even there that was about as plot thin as you can get despite the nifty setting.

I still regard the Fallout 3 DLC as superior to anything BioWare has done so far regarding DLC, just because each DLC felt substantial, basically they all added a little bit of everything Fallout 3 is, scavenging, adventuring, combat, and some quests. I regard Broken Steel even as essential to the game.

Brockololly wrote...

I'd just prefer that instead of doing little hack-n-slash stuff, BioWare did some DLC that moved the story forward or added to the lore in a meaningful way. The last 2 DLC's haven't done any of that.

Imho RtO was fine. Nothing breaktaking, but it offered a little bit of everything DA is in essential. Some story, some lore, some combat, and -at least- a little bit of dialogue. DSC had nothing besides combat. And, honestly, the reason I like BioWare games isn't the gameplay mechanics, it's story, dialogue, choices.

I agree with you. I don't really care about gameplay from BW but instead their story-writing, which is why I had a problem with DSC since choices and story were non really there. I also think BW should do dlc like FO3 since every dlc for that game added somethin one of it's strong points like:
-operation anchorage added to the combat and gave some sweet loot.
-the pitt had intresting story-line with a really grey choice.
-broken steel made the game completely open ended.
-point lookout had an ok story but was more focus with exploration.
-mothership zeta could've been without but added some nice gear and focused on conbat.
I think BW should atleast make dlc like that where they focus on certain aspects to improve the expierence than end up with some half done dlc.

[Sidney]

Brockololly wrote...

I'd agree that Point lookout was good but Broken Steel was pretty good too, IMO. Anyway, I was just using those as examples of the kind of DLC  or episodic content/expansions that I'd prefer to see out of BioWare.

Just seems to me that at least with something like Point Lookout for Fallout3, it felt like a new area separate from the Wasteland. Most of the stuff we've gotten so far outside of Shale and Warden's Keep is just re-used or ever so slightly different assets from the main game. I get that its cheaper that way and all, but to me at least it just feels cheap too.

I'd just prefer that instead of doing little hack-n-slash stuff, BioWare did some DLC that moved the story forward or added to the lore in a meaningful way. The last 2 DLC's haven't done any of that.

Forgot about BS, that one was also good.

I think the edge that FO has is that, oddly, there lack of a plot helps the DLC. You can do PL and just have a setting with a thin thread of a plot that is about 15 minutes of real plot - not the wandering the swamp stuff just the big mansion bit - and people accept that because that is what makes FO great, the setting and the world so more setting and more world is good.

DAO is less about that than plot but plot has problems with time. I really think the expansion so soon after delivery was a mistake because now so many folks have moved on and into DAA that things in the DAO world are very much passe. I think there were some great DLC possiblities in the game but DAA really closed a lot of them off.

Overall I agree that FO3 has better quality and interest level of their DLC than DAO has had since go-live.

[Brockololly]

Sidney wrote...

I think the edge that FO has is that, oddly, there lack of a plot helps the DLC. You can do PL and just have a setting with a thin thread of a plot that is about 15 minutes of real plot - not the wandering the swamp stuff just the big mansion bit - and people accept that because that is what makes FO great, the setting and the world so more setting and more world is good.

DAO is less about that than plot but plot has problems with time. I really think the expansion so soon after delivery was a mistake because now so many folks have moved on and into DAA that things in the DAO world are very much passe. I think there were some great DLC possiblities in the game but DAA really closed a lot of them off.

Overall I agree that FO3 has better quality and interest level of their DLC than DAO has had since go-live.

Yeah, like you mentioned, the Fallout DLC works well because Bethesda played to the strengths of Fallout3 in its DLC- namely the exploration aspect.

Thats the problem with DA- the thing that makes DAO so unique is the story, characters and dialogue. And sadly thats probably some of the most costly stuff to implement in a game, let alone DLC. I'm still hopeful BioWare can produce some quality, meaningful DLC down the road. After all, Bethesda had to release their infamous horse armor before they got on the right track.