68 réponses à ce sujet

[mcsupersport]

Pacifien wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
Caster Sentinel, you might as well play adept, assault Sentinel you might as well play Soldier/Vanguard. Why compromise?

My experience with the assault sentinel was actually quite different from my charging vanguard. As for the caster sentinel, because of its tech capabilities, the sentinel appears better suited for more situations than a caster adept.

Adept takes Energy Drain for bonus talent......Nukes shields, has Singularity, pull, throw....Shockwave(yuck) and Warp.....Now how can a Sentinel make a better more rounded caster than that??!!??  Simply not happening.  The only real bonus to a Sentinel casting over an Adept w/ EDrain is the Tech Armor, and a caster really doesn't need it.  Again, if you are going to play a caster Sentinel you might as well play adept. 

The Assault Sentinel, if as you say is different than Vanguard, is it really different from a GSB Soldier??  I have never been able to play a Sentinel past the first few missions, and maybe I don't really know what I am missing, but I always felt like a watereddown other class when trying to play them.  A sub-par adept, or a sub-par Vanguard, or a Sub-par Soldier.

[jlb524]

Pacifien wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
Caster Sentinel, you might as well play adept, assault Sentinel you might as well play Soldier/Vanguard. Why compromise?

My experience with the assault sentinel was actually quite different from my charging vanguard. As for the caster sentinel, because of its tech capabilities, the sentinel appears better suited for more situations than a caster adept.

I agree with this.  I like Assault Sentinel way more than Charging Vanguard due to it's versaitility.

[JaegerBane]

mosor wrote...
Who cares. Lots of people who take the vanguard don't bother with the claymore unless they're good at the reload trick.  The fact is any class will get a weapon that suits their style. As for an assault sentinel, a shotgun, locust and heavy pistol is more than enough.

Whether you're bothered about it or not is irrelevant to the fact that this third weapon isn't available until at least halfway through the game. For most classes this isn't an issue, as they either don't need it or already have access to the one they need. For the above gameplay you keep mentioning, the build just doesn't function properly without it.

Understand that I'm not saying that this isn't a reason why *you* shouldn't enjoy it or anything - I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of reasons why someone would get a bit frustrated with it. Trying to play a close assault class with a Shuriken isn't most people's idea of fun.

I'm not twisting the issue. However you want to play the adept or soldier, it's not going to be radically different. Caster Sentinel and assault sentinel call for radically different syles of play. Thats just a fact.

A fact is something that is demonstrable and proven. They are differences to how an assault or caster sentinel will play, true, but claiming it's radically different just illustrates that your overly biased. Assault Armour isn't so potent that it becomes a good idea to simply ignore *all* of your other powers. No matter how you play it, the basic gameplay style of blowing through defences no matter the enemy and taking them down via powers is common to both.

You *could* restrict yourself to simply playing a Sentinel who exclusively repeatedly in, loses their shield and kils eveything one by one at close range, but such a strategy is not far off playing a gimped soldier with fewer guns. All it means is that you're playing a class that lacks heavy weaponry and time slowing and has to compensate for both by using weak AoE attacks and getting shot. Your cup of tea maybe, but I found it to be a bit wing clipped - which is, ironically, a similar feeling I got from playing a Caster sentinel too.

Here let me spell it out for you. Caster Sentinel plays a lot like an adept. Assault sentinel plays a lot like a close quaters soldier Both caster and assault are both extremely viable on insanity. Adept and soldier are almost diametrically opposites.. Never mind all the inbetween builds you can do. Thats why the class has the biggest variation. You can't say the same for the adpet or soldier, no matter how much you try to play them differently. If anyone is guilty of generalizing, it's you.

Mosor, I'm not interested in infantile ******-for-tat accusation. You go from one minute claiming 'anyone who says this is wrong' and the next your bashing out accusations of over-generalisation. Caster and Assault sentinels are only analagous to Adepts and close range soldiers in the most basic terms. Adepts and Caster sentinels only share the fact that they use lots of powers - Sentinels cannot effectively lock down large portions of the battlefied on insanity nor can they set up their own warp bombs to deal with hordes, and they can't accurately deal with multiple targets at varying ranges like a soldier. The assertion they play like a 'close range soldier' is completely meaningless, as there is no such thing in this game as a 'close range soldier'. A soldier can focus at close range fighting but even one who picked the Claymore still has things like Vipers, Vindicators  and Adrenaline to pwn anything at any range.

I agree that there is a definite nod into the direction of playing caster or assault classes depending on your sentinel build - all I'm saying is that it's *extremely* diluted, to the extent by claiming that the Sentinel can effectively offer any kind of gameplay while the specialist classes only offer one to be little more than salesmen talk. Check out thisisme8's videos of the Adept to see just how nonsensical this talk that Adepts only sit at the back and spam powers is.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 30 mai 2010 - 02:03 .

[incinerator950]

An error occurred, please try again later.



As someone who did two and a half Insanity Adept Runs (all imported lvl 30 Adepts) and 1 Sentinel Insanity Run, I have to say I enjoy a Bastardized hybrid Sentinel (Assault Armor Sentinel that...also spams powers!) over Adept, simply because of survival.

[JaegerBane]

mcsupersport wrote...
Adept takes Energy Drain for bonus talent......Nukes shields, has Singularity, pull, throw....Shockwave(yuck) and Warp.....Now how can a Sentinel make a better more rounded caster than that??!!??  Simply not happening.  The only real bonus to a Sentinel casting over an Adept w/ EDrain is the Tech Armor, and a caster really doesn't need it.  Again, if you are going to play a caster Sentinel you might as well play adept.

I agree, to an extent. Ultimately, the only thing the Adept hasn't got that the Sentinel has in terms of casting is a way to take down shields. ED directly addresses this and boosts your shielding too. After that, all we're left with is damage potential and crowd control, and the Adept's combined load of Singularity, Pull, self made warp bombs and physics attacks goes well beyond Cryo Blast, Throw and Warp by itself.

The Caster sentinel does have an edge when playing as an agressive caster, however... but only insofar as running to cover. 

The Assault Sentinel, if as you say is different than Vanguard, is it really different from a GSB Soldier??  I have never been able to play a Sentinel past the first few missions, and maybe I don't really know what I am missing, but I always felt like a watereddown other class when trying to play them.  A sub-par adept, or a sub-par Vanguard, or a Sub-par Soldier.

Watered-down is indeed the distinct feeling I got - the only difference was that i was able to play as a heavily watered down version of all 3 simultaneously. If that's what people want, great...

[incinerator950]

I like to think of the Sentinel as the Jack-of-All I'm going to **** you up with this Shiny Armor stuff.

[FourSixEight]

If you're playing Insanity, go with the Infiltrator- if you level it right it can be the best class to tackle the highest difficulty. Otherwise, Sentinel isn't too bad a class either.

[incinerator950]

FourSixEight wrote...

If you're playing Insanity, go with the Infiltrator- if you level it right it can be the best class to tackle the highest difficulty. Otherwise, Sentinel isn't too bad a class either.

On the 360 forum, we consider the Sentinel the easiest of the classes to play Insanity, Soldier and Infiltrator are a close second only for the Damage, with Vanguard somewhere in between all of these for..well, the Vanguard community and how well you can use your classes.  Adept is still considered the most underpowered, but not useless. 

[Pacifien]

JaegerBane wrote...
Watered-down is indeed the distinct feeling I got - the only difference was that i was able to play as a heavily watered down version of all 3 simultaneously. If that's what people want, great...

I don't get it: you seem to take offense when someone implies the adept is a weak class because your experience as an adept is profoundly different, but then you turn around and say the sentinel is a weak class because your experience has demonstrated them to be so. Nevermind someone's experience might have been profoundly different, your experience shows them to be water-downed, so obviously that's what those sentinel players must be playing.

[mosor]

JaegerBane wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...
Adept takes Energy Drain for bonus talent......Nukes shields, has Singularity, pull, throw....Shockwave(yuck) and Warp.....Now how can a Sentinel make a better more rounded caster than that??!!??  Simply not happening.  The only real bonus to a Sentinel casting over an Adept w/ EDrain is the Tech Armor, and a caster really doesn't need it.  Again, if you are going to play a caster Sentinel you might as well play adept.

I agree, to an extent. Ultimately, the only thing the Adept hasn't got that the Sentinel has in terms of casting is a way to take down shields. ED directly addresses this and boosts your shielding too. After that, all we're left with is damage potential and crowd control, and the Adept's combined load of Singularity, Pull, self made warp bombs and physics attacks goes well beyond Cryo Blast, Throw and Warp by itself.

The Caster sentinel does have an edge when playing as an agressive caster, however... but only insofar as running to cover. 

The Assault Sentinel, if as you say is different than Vanguard, is it really different from a GSB Soldier??  I have never been able to play a Sentinel past the first few missions, and maybe I don't really know what I am missing, but I always felt like a watereddown other class when trying to play them.  A sub-par adept, or a sub-par Vanguard, or a Sub-par Soldier.

Watered-down is indeed the distinct feeling I got - the only difference was that i was able to play as a heavily watered down version of all 3 simultaneously. If that's what people want, great...

1. The caster sentinel has an advantage over the adept because it has a faster cooldown and/or does better damage with it's offensive powers. The only advantage the adept has is that it has singularity/pull to do their own biotic combos. It' not a big deal to bring along someone with pull. The senintels guardian build has a 30% cooldown reduction.

2. Seriously you're comparing GSB to assault armor? Thats like comparing a Volkwagon Jetta to a Ferarri. Sure they both give protection, but the 18M pulse and the 50% sheild recharge after the armor goes down is a game changer. Not to mention that a soldier would have to wait 9.6-12 seconds to recharge it, while an upgraded sentinel can do it in 6 (Not factoring in the archon visor which would bring it down to 5.4) which makes spamming it in the middle of combat feasable. Should be noted that if you really want to be some shield god, you can stack GSB and power armor.

3.  As for being watered down. I can see that argument in the sentinels early stages, but if you give it a chance and build it up, it's definitely powerful and unique in it's own right. It pretty much can do almost anything and do it well.

Modifié par mosor, 30 mai 2010 - 04:38 .

[JaegerBane]

Pacifien wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...
Watered-down is indeed the distinct feeling I got - the only difference was that i was able to play as a heavily watered down version of all 3 simultaneously. If that's what people want, great...

I don't get it: you seem to take offense when someone implies the adept is a weak class because your experience as an adept is profoundly different, but then you turn around and say the sentinel is a weak class because your experience has demonstrated them to be so. Nevermind someone's experience might have been profoundly different, your experience shows them to be water-downed, so obviously that's what those sentinel players must be playing.

Pacifien, if you want to deduce that I'm taking offence about anything anti-adept, that's your business - but it has nothing to do with me what extreme interpretation your plaster over my post.

All I was saying is that if you just want to experience a small morsel of several different playstyles, and be a jack of all trades, then great, the Sentinel class is something for you.

It was a neutral comment on what had already been mentioned - if you want to freak out with accusations about arrogance etc etc then that's your deal, but don't expect an explanation from me as to why you've taken my post as some sort of broadside against all Sentinel players.

[mcsupersport]

mosor wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

mcsupersport
wrote...
Adept takes Energy Drain for bonus talent......Nukes
shields, has Singularity, pull, throw....Shockwave(yuck) and
Warp.....Now how can a Sentinel make a better more rounded caster than
that??!!??  Simply not happening.  The only real bonus to a Sentinel
casting over an Adept w/ EDrain is the Tech Armor, and a caster really
doesn't need it.  Again, if you are going to play a caster Sentinel you
might as well play adept.

I agree, to an extent.
Ultimately, the only thing the Adept hasn't got that the Sentinel has in
terms of casting is a way to take down shields. ED directly addresses
this and boosts your shielding too. After that, all we're left with is
damage potential and crowd control, and the Adept's combined load of
Singularity, Pull, self made warp bombs and physics attacks goes well
beyond Cryo Blast, Throw and Warp by itself.

The Caster sentinel
does have an edge when playing as an agressive caster, however... but
only insofar as running to cover. 

The Assault
Sentinel, if as you say is different than Vanguard, is it really
different from a GSB Soldier??  I have never been able to play a
Sentinel past the first few missions, and maybe I don't really know what
I am missing, but I always felt like a watereddown other class when
trying to play them.  A sub-par adept, or a sub-par Vanguard, or a
Sub-par Soldier.

Watered-down is indeed the
distinct feeling I got - the only difference was that i was able to play
as a heavily watered down version of all 3 simultaneously. If that's
what people want, great...

1. The caster sentinel
has an advantage over the adept because it has a faster cooldown and/or
does better damage with it's offensive powers. The only advantage the
adept has is that it has singularity/pull to do their own biotic combos.
It' not a big deal to bring along someone with pull. The senintels
guardian build has a 30% cooldown reduction.

2. Seriously you're
comparing GSB to assault armor? Thats like comparing a Volkwagon Jetta
to a Ferarri. Sure they both give protection, but the 18M pulse and the
50% sheild recharge after the armor goes down is a game changer. Not to
mention that a soldier would have to wait 9.6-12 seconds to recharge it,
while an upgraded sentinel can do it in 6 (Not factoring in the archon
visor which would bring it down to 5.4) which makes spamming it in the
middle of combat feasable. Should be noted that if you really want to be
some shield god, you can stack GSB and power armor.

3.  As for
being watered down. I can see that argument in the sentinels early
stages, but if you give it a chance and build it up, it's definitely
powerful and unique in it's own right. It pretty much can do almost
anything and do it well.

The cooldowns on Adepts are not bad by any means, fully upgraded you can cast singularity and depending on distance, by the time it hits and floats a guy, the warp is ready to throw.  Pull has extremely low cooldown on Adepts allowing spaming warp explosions.  This allows you to take party members to help with other aspects and boots combat more than taking one just because they have pull.  Also pull on squad members don't cool down near as fast as an adepts.  Plus Singularity allows you to park a field in front of your guys to collect charging enemies, like husks and lokis. 

And yeah, I know GSB isn't as good as assault armor, BUT add improved GSB to a Soldier with hardened AdRush and the Rev Assault rifle and you get a holy terror.  This makes a bullet hose with specialized ammo, extra shields and around 150% extra damage in the Rush, plus takes half damage.  IF you take Miri along you get warp/overload combo and +18% more damage, and still allows you to add a pull member to get explosions, but I didn't need one on almost all missions.  Hard combo to beat, but I am not saying Assaults are bad, but they have to me, in the times I played them, felt watered down.  When I wanted up close combat, the Vanguard to me is more fun, gets you closer and has shotties the entire game, allowing the option of either Claymore or more ranged version aka viper/vindicator action.

Different people like different things, but to me the Sentinel has always been a hybrid watered down class.  Maybe one day I will be able to play one long enough to get to the point you talk about, but so far the lacks in their ability have made them uninteresting to me.

edited to correct quoting mistake.

Modifié par mcsupersport, 30 mai 2010 - 06:59 .

[Lumikki]

I don't really have much experience yet from many classes, but few thing is need to be know about ME1 when selecting class to play.

Pistol skill (at least), if you character has it, it's extremely good. You gonna use it alot and if you have it, you don't need any other weapon skill. This means Sentinel class is onlyone who doesn't have pistol skill or any weapon skill. When you get pistol skill up, it's gonna be like submachine gun and you can use it even kill enemies as far you can see. Meaning even distance of sniper rifle. I have killed with pistol in some cases stuff what I usually do with sniper rifle.

Second important is decryption skill. This allows you to access decrypted containers. Now You have two possibility, to have it you self or you squad member has it. Now If you gonna use squad member you choises are Tali, Kaiden or Garrus, because these are only one who has the skill. How ever, it also means one of them has to be allways with you in every missions, if you want to loot those decrypted containers for items. As player classes Sentinel, Engineer and Infiltrator has this skill. If You self have this skill, it's makes easyer to choose you squad members for missions.

In combat you also need very good protective skill like immunity (fitness) or barrier (bionic). Only engineering does not have one. So this should not be problem most of the cases.

There is only one class what has all of these skills and that's Infiltrator.

Sentinel : decryption, barrier (bionic)
Engineer: decryption and pistol
Adept : barrier (bionic), pistol
Vanguard: barrier (bionic), pistol
Soldier: immunity (fitness), pistol
Infiltrator: decryption, immunity (fitness) and pistol

Just remember that in ME2 many of classes are totally different than they where in ME1.

Modifié par Lumikki, 31 mai 2010 - 10:44 .

[SuperMedbh]

I'm liking Sentinel right now. It feels most like the original ME1 Vanguard class. Mind you, I like the ME2 Vanguard, but they are a bit of a one trick pony.

[TehSoune]

Mightyg wrote...

I really enjoyed both classes. flip a coin.

There ya go

[Spartas Husky]

Infiltrator

[mosor]

mcsupersport wrote...


The cooldowns on Adepts are not bad by any means, fully upgraded you can cast singularity and depending on distance, by the time it hits and floats a guy, the warp is ready to throw.  Pull has extremely low cooldown on Adepts allowing spaming warp explosions.  This allows you to take party members to help with other aspects and boots combat more than taking one just because they have pull.  Also pull on squad members don't cool down near as fast as an adepts.  Plus Singularity allows you to park a field in front of your guys to collect charging enemies, like husks and lokis. 

The adpets cooldown isn't bad. It's just that the sentinel's guardian build is 10% faster. That means you're going to cast more offensive powers over time than an adept. The fact that pull has a low cooldown is a good reason to bring a squaddie with pull, which gives you the same effect.  Bringing someone like Jacob, brings two things, the incendiary ammo, the pull, and decent durability.  Singularity is a great power, but dealing with husks, loki and charging enemies are pretty easily on a sentinel. Killing huks is just casting an area reave and an area throw for the insta killing a few at a time. With the sentinel's cooldown, that can be done in 4.5 seconds. The pulse from exploding armor also insta-kills husks.

And yeah, I know GSB isn't as good as assault armor, BUT add improved GSB to a Soldier with hardened AdRush and the Rev Assault rifle and you get a holy terror.  This makes a bullet hose with specialized ammo, extra shields and around 150% extra damage in the Rush, plus takes half damage.  IF you take Miri along you get warp/overload combo and +18% more damage, and still allows you to add a pull member to get explosions, but I didn't need one on almost all missions.  Hard combo to beat, but I am not saying Assaults are bad, but they have to me, in the times I played them, felt watered down.  When I wanted up close combat, the Vanguard to me is more fun, gets you closer and has shotties the entire game, allowing the option of either Claymore or more ranged version aka viper/vindicator action.

Well hardened AR isn't going to give you a 140% damage, you're confusing it with heightened. Besides you're going to wait around a lot waiting for that GSB to cooldown. 

I've played both close quatered soldier, assault sentinel and vanguard. Both are good, but the sentinel is going to get up close and surive a frontal assault better than a vanguard or soldier. Vanguard you're relying on flanking enemies, taking in 1 or 2 enemies that broke from the main pack. Assault sentinel you're going to run straight into 3  or 4 enemies and take them out.  As for the claymore. Thats not a good shotgun for an assault sentinel. You want a gun that will take out the protection off a few enemies quickly so when your shields go down, those few enemies get knocked down. The claymore is powerful but slow.

You'd be suprised low little need there is for a sniper on a sentinel. You already have ranged offensive abilities on a sentinel. You got warp and overload for ranged attacks. Don't underestimate that heavy pistol. I killed a threasher maw in 3 min just shooting the carnifex hand cannon (had 3 upgrades). Until you get a shotgun, the tempest is a great CQC weapon on a sentinel. Killed a lot of krogan just using that.

Different people like different things, but to me the Sentinel has always been a hybrid watered down class.  Maybe one day I will be able to play one long enough to get to the point you talk about, but so far the lacks in their ability have made them uninteresting to me.

Hey I understand. The sentinel was the first class I really played. All I did was warp bomb and overload. It sucked and it was frustrating, even on normal mode. I didn't know what was I doing. Then I did an isanity run as an infiltrator, a vanguard, a soldier, an adept, an egineer. I loved playing all of them and did really well on insanity. I looked back on the sentinel and thought man I remember this class sucking hard. How can the other classes be so much more fun? So I started it again. I had the shooting and shotgun experience from the soldier and vanguard playthoughs and I hard a good understanding how biotic combos worked. I played the sentinel and I was pretty unstoppable. Realized it was a great class, I just didn't play one correctly.

Modifié par mosor, 01 juin 2010 - 03:04 .

[RGFrog]

If I could only choose one and it was a choice based on never dieing, winning and not on play style, I'd go with infiltrator.

If it was fun factor, and i didn't care about a few restarts, i'd go with sentinel. I die more with it since the armor makes me lazy and prone to rushing into things.