161 réponses à ce sujet

[rastakore]

Ecael wrote...
I'm pretty sure KitsuneRommel was just being sarcastic, but if you insist...

My sarcams detector is kinda broken today 
I wasn't comparing those aspect to ME1 (unless you are talking about the squadmates armor), I was talking in general to the aspectes that some find "immersion breaking" in games, I have no problem with the ME2 hud,it is a vast improvment over ME1 and the loading screens are much faster and less frequent than ME1, the only thing I  miss is the banter in the elevators and opening the airlock in the normandy.
What I was trying to transmit was, it's a game, there will be loadings, huds and menus, deal with it. If somebody wants something more immersive it's better to watch a movie.

[KitsuneRommel]

rastakore wrote...
My sarcams detector is kinda broken today 
I wasn't comparing those aspect to ME1 (unless you are talking about the squadmates armor), I was talking in general to the aspectes that some find "immersion breaking" in games, I have no problem with the ME2 hud,it is a vast improvment over ME1 and the loading screens are much faster and less frequent than ME1, the only thing I  miss is the banter in the elevators and opening the airlock in the normandy.

I was.

I don't know if my copy of ME1 is broken but I very rarely get squad banter on elevators. Last two trips (between C-Sec and Normandy) I got the same short newscast about Major Kyle that I had done just an hour earlier.

[MassEffectMMO]

Inventory is ****. Baby, bathwater, etc.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Terror_K wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...
You did that mock-up inventory image? I tried to find it earlier.

Yes, though its more of a mock-up weapons loadout image technically. Here it is:-

This. So much this.

However, I would only let 1 upgrade for weapon as ammo powers are fine, remove the information on penetration, energy hold and recharge as I'm supposing you're going back to ME1 system. I would add information about extra damage on armors, shields and barriers. Done.

[kraze07]

Realism =/= Immersion. Just thought I'd let some of you guys know.

[Kangasniemi]

Ecael wrote...


Now, I'm not in full support of a complicated inventory, but you might want to refrain from using expletives when disagreeing with someone.

And Shepard would know at least some of the specifications of her or his weapon, just as any galactic soldier should.

http://www.colt.com/mil/M4_2.asp

Hmm, it's maybe I'm reading your link wrong but I didn't see any DPS value of that M4. Nor did I see damage against shields either... And if you would have read my post that you quoted, you would have noticed that those values in the M4 specs were the ones I wanted in the game. But no some DPS and MAX Damage numbers.

[TJSolo]

Bioware went out and tried to do away with the "loot list" inventory that is present in many games but in doing that they also got rid of the details(stats, comparisons, icons, etc) which made the lists interesting.

I am in support of some kind of detailed menu for items I have acquired in ME3.

[Tirigon]

AlanC9 wrote...

Whatever you think about inventory, there's no reason not to give a player complete information on his equipment.

This.

However, BioWare falls short in this aspect, same problem with DAO-spells too......

[Mx_CN3]

I'd like an inventory system that is basically ME2 but with the addition of being able to change out your barrel/stock/heat sink/whatever other components, with a stat change system similar to the ME2 armor stat/appearance (i.e. "if you use this barrel, your shots will hit 10% harder, but due to the extra heat, you'll lose 5% of your heat clip capacity"). Straight numbers are something that belong in straight RPGs, and ME seems to be steering away from straight RPGs.



Something simple, but with more customization than ME2 allows.

[KitsuneRommel]

kraze07 wrote...

Realism =/= Immersion. Just thought I'd let some of you guys know.

Is not immersive??

[bjdbwea]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

kraze07 wrote...

Realism =/= Immersion. Just thought I'd let some of you guys know.

Is not immersive??

Looks great. If all these things actually make a difference in the game, it adds a lot of depth and replayability. Yeah, it suddenly requires a bit more than a quick trigger finger, but in my view that's a good thing. A game can still very well be immersive.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

bjdbwea wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

kraze07 wrote...

Realism =/= Immersion. Just thought I'd let some of you guys know.

Is not immersive??

Looks boring and arcane. None of these things actually make a difference in the story, they just change displayed text on top of a damage forumula.  Yeah, it suddenly requires a lot more sitting around doing spreadsheets, but in my view that's a good thing. A game can still very well replace real life.

Fixed for you.

Story is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Stats.

Modifié par RinpocheSchnozberry, 19 mai 2010 - 07:10 .

[KitsuneRommel]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Fixed for you.

Story is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Stats.

I just made Perception and Human Nature rolls and now I'm losing my Self Control.

[Shotokanguy]

I've always been amused by "immersion breaking" arguments.



You're never going to be truly immersed in a game until it becomes something like...virtual reality pods. If something as simple as having numbers to represent a weapon's effectiveness hinders your ability to just enjoy the experience, you should just stop playing games.

[bjdbwea]

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Story is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Stats.

And...? Do you want your game to be a movie? Or do you want to have gameplay too? The stats take nothing away from the story, but they improve the gameplay. And with replayability, it's more fun to re-watch the story cutscenes too.

[CatatonicMan]

Shotokanguy wrote...

I've always been amused by "immersion breaking" arguments.

You're never going to be truly immersed in a game until it becomes something like...virtual reality pods. If something as simple as having numbers to represent a weapon's effectiveness hinders your ability to just enjoy the experience, you should just stop playing games.

In real life (putting aside the fact that immersion != reality), there are plenty of statistics one could compile about a given weapon that would be tremendously useful when divining its abilities. In game, all these statistics would be a tremendous amount of overkill, so most systems replace the complicated real-life stats with ones that are relevant to gameplay. While these stats don't exist in real life, they do have analogs to what you might find out of game. Not having said information when you logically should is a big immersion breaker.

True, complete immersion is, of course, out of the reach of current technology. Still, simply because we can't make it completely perfect is no reason to stop trying to make it as good as possible. The more immersive the game is, the easier it becomes for the player to ignore and/or overlook the flaws inherent in the system. This leads to a far better gameplay experience overall.

Conversely, if the game makes only a pretense at immersion the player is far more likely to be reminded that the game is only a game, which then provokes the player to notice all the flaws that might have been glossed over had they really been into it.

ME2 falls into the second category for me. There are too many niggling flaws (like the simplistic and rigid pseudo-inventory) for me to really get into the game. It's not a good thing for a game based on playing a role.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 19 mai 2010 - 11:13 .

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

bjdbwea wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

Story is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>  Stats.

And...? Do you want your game to be a movie? Or do you want to have gameplay too? The stats take nothing away from the story, but they improve the gameplay. And with replayability, it's more fun to re-watch the story cutscenes too.

Yes, the less difference there is between my game and a movie, the better.  However, it still has to be something I control.  ME2 had a fantastic balance.  Very little number crunching to slow the game down.  Or you could do like I did and totally ignore the numbers in favor of how a weapon worked (long range, close range, no other conciderations) or how an armor looked (cooler or less cool, no other conciderations).

 I had a hell of a time with ME2.  

[Onyx Jaguar]

Oh I think that is an overstatement. You can power through all of Bioware's games since KOTOR without much consequence.

[Ecael]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

kraze07 wrote...
Realism =/= Immersion. Just thought I'd let some of you guys know.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3578/arkania.jpg

Is not immersive??

No, but this is:



A nice balance of statistics and action. Ah, the memories...

Ford the 20 foot deep river? Heavy risk...

Modifié par Ecael, 19 mai 2010 - 11:43 .

[cachx]

Game Over Man ! Game Over !

Funny how I wrote 'You have died' and google suggested dysentery

[Onyx Jaguar]

You guys are all wrong. THIS is immersion

[Ecael]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You guys are all wrong. THIS is immersion

And THIS is...

[cachx]

Ecael wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

You guys are all wrong. THIS is immersion

And THIS is...

*Resist the urge for a Sparta joke*

Oh, by the way, 'immersion' is a nonsense buzzword. There, I said it.

[lukandroll]

Inventory needs a comeback...

[lukandroll]

CatatonicMan wrote...

Shotokanguy wrote...

I've always been amused by "immersion breaking" arguments.

You're never going to be truly immersed in a game until it becomes something like...virtual reality pods. If something as simple as having numbers to represent a weapon's effectiveness hinders your ability to just enjoy the experience, you should just stop playing games.

In real life (putting aside the fact that immersion != reality), there are plenty of statistics one could compile about a given weapon that would be tremendously useful when divining its abilities. In game, all these statistics would be a tremendous amount of overkill, so most systems replace the complicated real-life stats with ones that are relevant to gameplay. While these stats don't exist in real life, they do have analogs to what you might find out of game. Not having said information when you logically should is a big immersion breaker.

True, complete immersion is, of course, out of the reach of current technology. Still, simply because we can't make it completely perfect is no reason to stop trying to make it as good as possible. The more immersive the game is, the easier it becomes for the player to ignore and/or overlook the flaws inherent in the system. This leads to a far better gameplay experience overall.

Conversely, if the game makes only a pretense at immersion the player is far more likely to be reminded that the game is only a game, which then provokes the player to notice all the flaws that might have been glossed over had they really been into it.

ME2 falls into the second category for me. There are too many niggling flaws (like the simplistic and rigid pseudo-inventory) for me to really get into the game. It's not a good thing for a game based on playing a role.

One word... lazyness... these supposed "RPG" gamers that  don't want to lose their precious time dealing with stats and character building and all the kind of stuff that gives a lot of replayability in RPGs... I just don't get it