171 réponses à ce sujet

[Wicked 702]

Seems to be a lot that can and has been said on both sides of this issue. Here's another interesting article with a well known game developer's position. Now.......

DEBATE!

[Sand King]

Put your self in there shoes. If Epic releases Gears 3 on pc people can play it for free, release it on the 360 they are going to make money. If people keep pirating games then developers are going to stop releasing games for pc.

[Busomjack]

Oh? But I thought PC gaming was a charity!

[rage9345]

If they don't want their games to be pirated, then they shouldn't ship their games through Somalia.

[Busomjack]

The Somalians are just mad about DRM.

Just get rid of DRM and they'd all be lined up at gamestop in rainbow galore.

[Wicked 702]

While most (what I would consider) "reasonable" people would agree that software piracy most definitely has a negative impact, it seems to be the amount of that impact that is always brought into question.

We have very real examples of developers specifically moving towards console based games for the explicit reason of avoiding PC piracy. Is the problem really not as bad as they make it seem? Should we take these developers at their word? Or do we discount what they say because profit is clearly involved?

And most of all what about the notion that most, or at least many, of the pirates that steal games would actually buy them if DRM was removed, prices were less, etc. etc. (Or some other reason.) My personal answer (knowing myself) would be NO. Also I happen to know a game pirate or two (and I harp on them quite a bit). I know that they'd never pay for the games because "why pay when you can get it for free." So is this perhaps a reason why developers react as they do? Because they know that most pirates are for life?

[DarthCaine]

Relatively free 360 !? hahaha. On 360 almost every game is leaked before it's release date

[Busomjack]

Celrath wrote...

I thought the the main reason developers are moving toward consoles is uniformity.

Then why would Epic Games explicitly mention piracy as a reason for their emphasis on consoles?  I do realize Epic Games is just one company but they're pretty big in the business and they're no stupid, I imagine other developers feel the same way.

[Fexelea]

I think this: http://blog.wolfire....-of-game-piracy

@Busomjack: Companies are moving towards console gaming because of very simple reasons:
1. It's easier: You have 2 main platforms, no need to mac, linux, win. No multiple cards, processors, etc
2. It's cheaper: You get marketing help from hardware company, which can easily offset about 20% of your costs
3. If's more profitable: Besides the advantage above, consoles allow for faster cycles and increased price tags on reduced costs

Piracy is just the easy excuse.

Modifié par Fexelea, 19 mai 2010 - 02:52 .

[Busomjack]

It really just boils down to arrogance and ignorance.

The arrogance aspect stems from a PC gamer's idea that they are entitled to everything for free and the ignorance aspect is due to their lack of understanding that the industry runs on money, not torrent downloads.

[Busomjack]

Fexelea wrote...

I think this: http://blog.wolfire....-of-game-piracy

I think the viewpoint of the actual developers is more important than some speculation from a piracy apologist.  Especially considering that the former are the people who actually bring us the games.  If they say piracy is the reason they aren't developing for the PC, we should take their word for it.

Edit:BIG SURPRISE that someone who has NO games registered is defending Piracy.

I think Epic Games' opinion holds more credibility than yours considering that...well, THEY ARE game developers and you're just an industry parasite.

Modifié par Busomjack, 19 mai 2010 - 02:55 .

[Outamyhead]

Epic has not made anything decent since Unreal Tournament 2004, and sales dived for their PC releases since then because they were all geared towards consoles, and historically console ports do not sell well, mainly due to the game being rubbish, or everyone that waited for the PC release had forgotten about it's release (like UT3).



There is already an effective DRM for the PC, STEAM, even FEAR 2 hard copy validates through STEAM.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

I think this: http://blog.wolfire....-of-game-piracy

I think the viewpoint of the actual developers is more important than some speculation from a piracy apologist.  Especially considering that the former are the people who actually bring us the games.  If they say piracy is the reason they aren't developing for the PC, we should take their word for it.

Er... that blog was written by David Rosen. He is a developer and most certainly not a piracy apologist. Check your facts before you post.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Considering the fact that even the Humble Indie Deal, which basically costed a mere cent, was pirated, I can't really blame the developers.

[Busomjack]

Lol, Wolfire games? Who in the Hell has ever heard of them? The guy is just jealous that he's failed to make it big in the industry so he advocates illegally downloading the games of companies that make games that people actually want to play.

[Busomjack]

Outamyhead wrote...

Epic has not made anything decent since Unreal Tournament 2004, and sales dived for their PC releases since then because they were all geared towards consoles, and historically console ports do not sell well, mainly due to the game being rubbish, or everyone that waited for the PC release had forgotten about it's release (like UT3).

There is already an effective DRM for the PC, STEAM, even FEAR 2 hard copy validates through STEAM.

You're serious?  Gears of War was so cool!  You sound like another PC junkie just angry that developers don't want to make games for people who don't even think they should have to buy them.

Modifié par Busomjack, 19 mai 2010 - 03:00 .

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Lol, Wolfire games? Who in the Hell has ever heard of them? The guy is just jealous that he's failed to make it big in the industry so he advocates illegally downloading the games of companies that make games that people actually want to play.

Do you live under a rock? Not being big doesn't mean anything. His logic is sound, and his numbers are very clear. Furthermore, look at what he is saying: "We still do PC, we love the PC, but we already saw the impact of
piracy -- it killed a lot of great independent developers and
completely changed our business model."

More the reason why the independent developer's take is more valid.

The piracy numbers cited as reasons to detract from PC gaming are bogus, they don't make market sense, and if you actually bother to go and read them you will see why. Pirates are not prospective buyers, they are not realized sales, nor are they affecting your margins. This is the same as hollywood, breaking its own profit records year after year yet asking the government to censor the internet because of their "profits loss".

As I said, the three reasons to go to console are: easy money, easy money, easy money.

Modifié par Fexelea, 19 mai 2010 - 03:03 .

[Busomjack]

Fexelea wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Lol, Wolfire games? Who in the Hell has ever heard of them? The guy is just jealous that he's failed to make it big in the industry so he advocates illegally downloading the games of companies that make games that people actually want to play.

Do you live under a rock? Not being big doesn't mean anything. His logic is sound, and his numbers are very clear.

The piracy numbers cited as reasons to detract from PC gaming are bogus, they don't make market sense, and if you actually bother to go and read them you will see why. Pirates are not prospective buyers, they are not realized sales, nor are they affecting your margins. This is the same as hollywood, breaking its own profit records year after year yet asking the government to censor the internet because of their "profits loss".

His opinion is invalidated in the fact that he has never run a major business that has sold games in the millions so he can't emphasize with a company like Epic Games which actually makes games people give a damn about.
The hollywood analogy was weak.  Movies make up for their sales with tickets, DVDs, blue ray, netflix etc,
music has concerts.

Edit:For your information, no I didn't read the article you posted as I have heard every stupid argument in defense of piracy from PC gamers imaginable.

Games on the other hand can only get by on their sales.

Modifié par Busomjack, 19 mai 2010 - 03:05 .

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Edit:BIG SURPRISE that someone who has NO games registered is defending Piracy.

I think Epic Games' opinion holds more credibility than yours considering that...well, THEY ARE game developers and you're just an industry parasite.

I play on ps3, there is no piracy there. So yeah, you look stupid.

[Busomjack]

You have the game, yet you aren't registered....even if you were I still say someone who is as passionately defensive about piracy as you is no doubt a torrent monkey.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

His opinion is invalidated in the fact that he has never run a major business that has sold games in the millions so he can't emphasize with a company like Epic Games which actually makes games people give a damn about.

That's your very subjective opinion as someone who has not only never made a game, but also doesn't work in that industry at all, nor have any marketing knowledge (obviously)

Busomjack wrote...
The hollywood analogy was weak.  Movies make up for their sales with tickets, DVDs, blue ray, netflix etc, music has concerts.

No it is not. The games industry continues to thrive and grow at an incredible rate per year. This includes PC profitability, yet you are fooled to believe lack of support is due to evil pirates. Again, go see the numbers and make your own conclusions and do your own math. Do the research.

Busomjack wrote...
Edit:For your information, no I didn't read the article you posted as I have heard every stupid argument in defense of piracy from PC gamers imaginable.

This is not an article defending piracy, nor is it stupid. If you don't read something, then you are in no position to qualify its validity as you are going only on your preconceptions. It's quite sad that you take such approach.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

You have the game, yet you aren't registered....even if you were I still say someone who is as passionately defensive about piracy as you is no doubt a torrent monkey.

I don't want to register my game. I don't have to do it. I don't see any benefit for me in letting Bioware have access to my personal information via the purchase record of my credit card number against the serial on the copy. I'm married to a forensics guy, it paranoids you.

And I am not being passionately defensive about piracy, so I don't see why your assumptions are in any way justified. My comments are that I agree with the numbers proposed and I can see why the move from pc is happening in real money terms, instead of "evil thief" blaming.

[Busomjack]

"That's your very subjective opinion as someone who has not only never made a game, but also doesn't work in that industry at all, nor have any marketing knowledge (obviously)"



Yet you don't even take into consideration the viewpoint of a major giant in the gaming development world, Epic Games simply because their decisions don't conform with your preconceived notion that piracy is good.







"No it is not. The games industry continues to thrive and grow at an incredible rate per year. This includes PC profitability, yet you are fooled to believe lack of support is due to evil pirates. Again, go see the numbers and make your own conclusions and do your own math. Do the research."



Oh really? Then why is it that the only PC exclusives we see these days are strategy games and MMORPGs?

Strategy games are a no brainer since nobody wants to play a strategy game with a controller and MMORPGs cannot be pirated. It's not as if this has always been the case, the PC used to be the medium for a huge array of classic exclusives.





"This is not an article defending piracy, nor is it stupid. If you don't read something, then you are in no position to qualify its validity as you are going only on your preconceptions. It's quite sad that you take such approach."



You say it's not defending piracy but you use it's source to back up your claims that piracy isn't hurting the industry. In interpret that as a pro-piracy article.

The word of the developers, in this case Epic Games is more valid than the word of some third rate, failed developer who is clearly a jealous loser.

[Busomjack]

Fexelea wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

You have the game, yet you aren't registered....even if you were I still say someone who is as passionately defensive about piracy as you is no doubt a torrent monkey.

I don't want to register my game. I don't have to do it. I don't see any benefit for me in letting Bioware have access to my personal information via the purchase record of my credit card number against the serial on the copy. I'm married to a forensics guy, it paranoids you.

And I am not being passionately defensive about piracy, so I don't see why your assumptions are in any way justified. My comments are that I agree with the numbers proposed and I can see why the move from pc is happening in real money terms, instead of "evil thief" blaming.

Excuses excuses.  People like you are the reason why the days of great PC exclusive classics lke System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Dungeon Siege, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate etc. are over!

I hope the torrent sites you visit for your illegal downloads give you every virus, spyware, trojan imaginable and you lose all your vital data.

I'm done with you crook.