171 réponses à ce sujet

[Norskatt]

Hydrated Jar wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Lol, Wolfire games? Who in the Hell has ever heard of them? The guy is just jealous that he's failed to make it big in the industry so he advocates illegally downloading the games of companies that make games that people actually want to play.

Do you live under a rock? Not being big doesn't mean anything. His logic is sound, and his numbers are very clear.

The piracy numbers cited as reasons to detract from PC gaming are bogus, they don't make market sense, and if you actually bother to go and read them you will see why. Pirates are not prospective buyers, they are not realized sales, nor are they affecting your margins. This is the same as hollywood, breaking its own profit records year after year yet asking the government to censor the internet because of their "profits loss".

His opinion is invalidated in the fact that he has never run a major business that has sold games in the millions so he can't emphasize with a company like Epic Games which actually makes games people give a damn about.
The hollywood analogy was weak.  Movies make up for their sales with tickets, DVDs, blue ray, netflix etc,
music has concerts.

Edit:For your information, no I didn't read the article you posted as I have heard every stupid argument in defense of piracy from PC gamers imaginable.

Games on the other hand can only get by on their sales.

How exactly are you validated in any of your opinions?  Do you work for a software company?  Have you designed any games that have sold millions?  Finally how can you even have an opinion on an article you refuse to read?  The meer fact that you are venturing an opinion is laughable at best.

+5

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...
Yet you don't even take into consideration the viewpoint of a major giant in the gaming development world, Epic Games simply because their decisions don't conform with your preconceived notion that piracy is good.

When did I say that piracy is good? Aha. Never. Drop your preconceptions already. I do take into consideration what Epic says, and I bother to do research and get it into context as it is my job, and I can tell you piracy is NOT the reason to move to consoles. Profitability is.

Busomjack wrote...
Oh really? Then why is it that the only PC exclusives we see these days are strategy games and MMORPGs?
Strategy games are a no brainer since nobody wants to play a strategy game with a controller and MMORPGs cannot be pirated. It's not as if this has always been the case, the PC used to be the medium for a huge array of classic exclusives.

MMORPGs can be pirated. There was an entire continent playing a pirated version of a rather famous for free on other servers just last year. Again, if you can't be bothered to do the research and understand market tendencies, why are you jumping to conclusions?

Busomjack wrote...
You say it's not defending piracy but you use it's source to back up your claims that piracy isn't hurting the industry. 

I did not say that nor are those two mutually exclusive.

Busomjack wrote...
In interpret that as a pro-piracy article.

Your interpretation is based on actually having read it?

Busomjack wrote...
The word of the developers, in this case Epic Games is more valid than the word of some third rate, failed developer who is clearly a jealous loser.

You have no substantiation to this assessment, nor can you attribute validity when you yourself are so pitifully uninformed.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

You have the game, yet you aren't registered....even if you were I still say someone who is as passionately defensive about piracy as you is no doubt a torrent monkey.

I don't want to register my game. I don't have to do it. I don't see any benefit for me in letting Bioware have access to my personal information via the purchase record of my credit card number against the serial on the copy. I'm married to a forensics guy, it paranoids you.

And I am not being passionately defensive about piracy, so I don't see why your assumptions are in any way justified. My comments are that I agree with the numbers proposed and I can see why the move from pc is happening in real money terms, instead of "evil thief" blaming.

Excuses excuses.  People like you are the reason why the days of great PC exclusive classics lke System Shock 2, Deus Ex, Dungeon Siege, Planescape Torment, Baldur's Gate etc. are over!

I hope the torrent sites you visit for your illegal downloads give you every virus, spyware, trojan imaginable and you lose all your vital data.

I'm done with you crook.

You are obviously uninterested in a rational discussion, and instead try to defend your stance by ad-hominems and assumptions.

Call me whatever you want. I don't care what unintelligent people like yourself must do to validate themselves against reason.

[Busomjack]

Hydrated Jar wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Fexelea wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

Lol, Wolfire games? Who in the Hell has ever heard of them? The guy is just jealous that he's failed to make it big in the industry so he advocates illegally downloading the games of companies that make games that people actually want to play.

Do you live under a rock? Not being big doesn't mean anything. His logic is sound, and his numbers are very clear.

The piracy numbers cited as reasons to detract from PC gaming are bogus, they don't make market sense, and if you actually bother to go and read them you will see why. Pirates are not prospective buyers, they are not realized sales, nor are they affecting your margins. This is the same as hollywood, breaking its own profit records year after year yet asking the government to censor the internet because of their "profits loss".

His opinion is invalidated in the fact that he has never run a major business that has sold games in the millions so he can't emphasize with a company like Epic Games which actually makes games people give a damn about.
The hollywood analogy was weak.  Movies make up for their sales with tickets, DVDs, blue ray, netflix etc,
music has concerts.

Edit:For your information, no I didn't read the article you posted as I have heard every stupid argument in defense of piracy from PC gamers imaginable.

Games on the other hand can only get by on their sales.

How exactly are you validated in any of your opinions?  Do you work for a software company?  Have you designed any games that have sold millions?  Finally how can you even have an opinion on an article you refuse to read?  The meer fact that you are venturing an opinion is laughable at best.

I'm not responding to Fexelea anymore since she's basically trying to play it both ways with her "I'm not saying piracy is good but piracy is hurting nobody" argument. 
However, I'm not talking about how I feel personally.  If I were, you'd have a point.  This is about how Epic Games feels according to the article the recently posted.  Considering that they're some of the biggest people in the industry, yes I would say their argument has merit.  Certainly more than some guy who's biggest game was probably developed for the Nokia N-gage.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

I'm not responding to Fexelea anymore since she's basically trying to play it both ways with her "I'm not saying piracy is good but piracy is hurting nobody" argument.

Translation:  I am not responding to Fexelea anymore because her argument that piracy is not the reason why developers prefer consoles actually makes sense. I will instead invent some new weak argument and say she is saying that.

Busomjack wrote...
However, I'm not talking about how I feel personally.  If I were, you'd have a point.  This is about how Epic Games feels according to the article the recently posted.  Considering that they're some of the biggest people in the industry, yes I would say their argument has merit.  Certainly more than some guy who's biggest game was probably developed for the Nokia N-gage.

Again showing a radical lack of information and understanding of critical factors in a rational analysis of any situation and resorting to ad-hominems to try to invalidate a logical proposition by someone who does not agree with his point of view (Mr. Rosen)

[Busomjack]

Once again Hydrated Jar it is not about what I think, it is about what Epic Games thinks.
The fact that you and Fexelea so cavalierly dismiss that article while embracing some two-bit nobody in the industry's wild speculation as gospel shows how biased you are. You believe this Rosen guy just because his point of view more comfortably conforms to your preconceived notions.
Even if you want to say I have no credibility, you have to at least give consideration to Epic Games considering they're industry leaders and the decisions they make influence what games we play and on what platform.
That is what matters in the end.  What this Rosen guy does doesn't mean anything because in the game industry...HE IS A NOBODY!

Modifié par Busomjack, 19 mai 2010 - 03:36 .

[Busomjack]

You didn't like Gears of War 2 Celrath?

[enormousmoonboots]

People, are we really arguing with Busomjack like he's an actual person? Really?



Piracy's certainly not good, but I feel like it's really overhyped as the Biggest Threat Ever. Companies treat pirated copies like lost sales, but that's not quite right, because most pirates are in the poor college student/unemployed bracket who wouldn't have bought the game anyway.



FWIW, I've only ever 'pirated' stuff that I already own if the disc gets damaged or lost (and before you say 'well you should buy it again', anything that's old enough to run on my computer is out of print, so money's not going back to the developers anyway, just Gamestop. They make most of their profit through used game sales). I have every item that came with my Icewind Dale 2 except the damn install disk. Lost it somewhere in between five moves.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Once again Hydrated Jar it is not about what I think, it is about what Epic Games thinks.

But you don't know what they think. You just know what he told the press. You are missing the point here, that when you make exclusive games for consoles, like Gears, the console owner will take over the marketing costs (that can be anywhere between 30 and 70% of costs!)

Busomjack wrote...
The fact that you and Fexelea so cavalierly dismiss that article while embracing some two-bit nobody in the industry's wild speculation as gospel shows how biased you are.

We didn't dismiss it. I am saying he is being disingenuous, and I can see David's article has appropriate math that actually makes sense. Unlike you, I bother to think.

Busomjack wrote...
You believe this Rosen guy just because his point of view more comfortably conforms to your preconceived notions.

This is another unsubstantiated assumption regarding my stance and motivations.

Busomjack wrote...
Even if you want to say I have no credibility, you have to at least give consideration to Epic Games considering they're industry leaders and the decisions they make influence what games we play and on what platform.

Yes, which is why I insist on doing appropriate research to see how the numbers add up and see the REAL reasons that influence those decisions.

Busomjack wrote...
That is what matters in the end.  What this Rosen guy does doesn't mean anything because in the game industry...HE IS A NOBODY!

Media Molecule was a nobody in 2007. Yeah... again, thinking is not your forte is it?

[Busomjack]

Pretty funny how you say I make an unsubstantiated assumption after you make a comment like



"But you don't know what they think. You just know what he told the press."



Oh! Sounds like a conspiracy! Maybe Epic Games really believes piracy is GOOD and believing that gamers hold a rebel mentality will pirate more as a response to Epic Games condemning it. I think you're on to something!

Consoles have always been a bigger market than PC games, that is no surprise. However, despite that there was still a huge market for PC exclusives in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. That has changed dramatically and I don't think the change coinciding with the advent of the "file sharing revolution" is a coincidence.



Dammit, I just spoke to you even though I said I wouldn't.....

[Busomjack]

Hydrated Jar. Console games are easy to pirate however the PC gaming market is substantially smaller than the console market and thus piracy has a more adverse effect on the PC gaming industry. That is why we see almost no PC exclusives these days outside of strategy games and MMORPGs.

As an old school PC gamer I deeply DEEPLY resent what PC gamers have done to this market which I grew up loving and have fond, nostalgic memories for what it once was. The fact that they justify their criminal behaviour by blaming it on the developers is disgraceful.

[Busomjack]

Celrath wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

You didn't like Gears of War 2 Celrath?

Nope, I find it boring an repetitive.

I found it brutal, violent and fun as Hell.  To each his own I guess.  I think those Sid Meier games are as boring as sin but I don't begrudge the millions of fans who love them.  
Point being, even if the game has it's detractors, their franchises are still profitable enough to make them big names in the industry.

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Pretty funny how you say I make an unsubstantiated assumption after you make a comment like

"But you don't know what they think. You just know what he told the press."

Oh I am being responded to again. Happy me.

The above is a fact. You do not know what they think, you know what the website quoted.

Busomjack wrote...
Oh! Sounds like a conspiracy! Maybe Epic Games really believes piracy is GOOD and believing that gamers hold a rebel mentality will pirate more as a response to Epic Games condemning it. I think you're on to something!

I do not follow your logic. However yeah, maybe they think that, which in my opinion would be a stupid conclusion, as obviously fostering piracy as an encouraged activity would be foolish.

Busomjack wrote...
Consoles have always been a bigger market than PC games, that is no surprise. However, despite that there was still a huge market for PC exclusives in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's. That has changed dramatically and I don't think the change coinciding with the advent of the "file sharing revolution" is a coincidence.

What you "think" is the case or not has no validity until you undertake adequate research and analysis. How about you do that, read the numbers, read the investor relations pdfs and powerpoints and see how pirates are actually being used to justify misplanning, misapplication, mismanagement or camouflage the corporate choice of changin to greener pastures.

Busomjack wrote...
Dammit, I just spoke to you even though I said I wouldn't.....

Glad to see I'm irresistible.

[boomgosthedino]

A lot of people pirate games cause the developers are making the PC games a stupid console port. We want are PC games, like a PC game, not like a console ported to PC.. That's just crap..

[Busomjack]

lol, no. I didn't respond to it because I didn't feel like it. If you insist though I judge my opinion not just on what has been posted in this thread. In every thread where the subject has been brought up Fexelea has been the biggest piracy apologists on this forum. I don't need any further investigation to know where she stands nor do I need to give any credence to her side of the argument.
My opinion is based on the views stated by those who actually make the gears turn in this industry, I think that gives it credit.
What she believes in and advocates is illegal so even if I were to agree with her, I would still oppose it. I don't believe in the kind of society where people can just break the law because they dissagree with it.

Modifié par Busomjack, 19 mai 2010 - 04:01 .

[Fexelea]

Busomjack wrote...

Hydrated Jar. Console games are easy to pirate however the PC gaming market is substantially smaller than the console market and thus piracy has a more adverse effect on the PC gaming industry.

The impact has nothing to do with the size of the market, it has to do with the amount of consumers who pirate and if they pirate what they would buy.

Busomjack wrote...
That is why we see almost no PC exclusives these days outside of strategy games and MMORPGs.

No, we see multi-platform releases because it is more profitable to have 3 sales channels instead of one!

Busomjack wrote...
As an old school PC gamer I deeply DEEPLY resent what PC gamers have done to this market which I grew up loving and have fond, nostalgic memories for what it once was.

I agree, PC gamers let the PC down, but I don't think it was through piracy. I think it was through hardware.

Busomjack wrote...
The fact that they justify their criminal behaviour by blaming it on the developers is disgraceful.

Pirates blaming developers is stupid. Ex-pc now console gamers blaming it on developers is just natural: I got fking tired of having to upgrade my pc every 6 months.