171 réponses à ce sujet

[Dethateer]

I love how people seem to think that pirates would buy a game if they couldn't get it for free. Here's a newsflash: no, they wouldn't. They'd move on to other games.

[dgrrahi]

Here's the solution; quit making games for PC. Done.

[Mik Sacred]

polyorpheus wrote...

I tend to agree with Fexelea, the value proposition of consoles far outweigh piracy as a reason to move to console-exclusivity. The underlying systems in services like XBox Live and the PSN, the hardware standards of the consoles, the reduced cost of development time as a result, and the far greater consumer base makes consoles more attractive to develop for.

But my main point will be that just because the video game market is changing, doesn't mean it's bad. The video game industry will evolve to whatever the consumer pays for and PC, consoles, Facebook, etc, etc, it doesn't really matter, because the games are what are important, not the platform. So far, I'm not worried that games are losing quality, because the what's happening is the opposite.


P.S. The American Revolution began with people who broke laws they disagreed with, just a thought.

I of course am inclined to agree with my good friend polyorpheus. I don't believe in pirating games but I don't really pay attention to it, the thing about pirates.. They’re going to pirate games/movies/music no matter what anyone does and who knows what the future hold in the prospect.

I'm just excited to see what games come out in the future regardless of what platform it's out for. Also, I have to say jack... you don't know much about PC gaming do you? Cause summing up PC games as being only strategy games and MMORPG’s? You do know that both those are out on consoles right? Halo Wars and may I point out that Marvel intend to release an exclusive MMO on the Xbox 360. A highly anticipated MMO known as Stargate World intends to release on both the Xbox 360 and the PC.

Nothing is exclusive to anything these days and though PC gaming might be going a little downhill and pirating may have to do with it, it would be impossible for that to be the only factor or even the biggest factor, for if it really was I think more than a few developers would talk about it, I think rather large groups would stand up and say "pirating is a very big problem, we haven't the funding to make any new games because of it" and as of right now I am unaware of that having happened.

Fexelea, I think you've done a very good job on researching your side of the argument, considering you haven't really taken a side. I agree with you when it comes to numbers that what you've said is a very logical argument and I appreciate that, I may not have done any number crunching, more to do with the fact number hurt my head when I'm not at work (and when I am) then anything but I do feel you deserve some thanks for your effort.

And Busomjack... I'm getting tired of your disingenuous assertions and snide insinuations. You’re very repetitive, which is sad because your argument never wins and when you keep using a losing argument...

Right I'm done now

Modifié par Mik Sacred, 19 mai 2010 - 05:57 .

[Dethateer]

dgrrahi wrote...

Here's the solution; quit making games for PC. Done.

You know that's just as valid a way of combatting Xbawks piracy, right?
Also, I have a question for Bl- Busom Jack. Have you played DA Awakening, by any chance?

Modifié par Dethateer, 19 mai 2010 - 05:59 .

[Fexelea]

Mik Sacred wrote...

polyorpheus wrote...

I tend to agree with Fexelea, the value proposition of consoles far outweigh piracy as a reason to move to console-exclusivity. The underlying systems in services like XBox Live and the PSN, the hardware standards of the consoles, the reduced cost of development time as a result, and the far greater consumer base makes consoles more attractive to develop for.

But my main point will be that just because the video game market is changing, doesn't mean it's bad. The video game industry will evolve to whatever the consumer pays for and PC, consoles, Facebook, etc, etc, it doesn't really matter, because the games are what are important, not the platform. So far, I'm not worried that games are losing quality, because the what's happening is the opposite.


P.S. The American Revolution began with people who broke laws they disagreed with, just a thought.

I of course am inclined to agree with my good friend polyorpheus. I don't believe in pirating games but I don't really pay attention to it, the thing about pirates.. They’re going to pirate games/movies/music no matter what anyone does and who knows what the future hold in the prospect.

I'm just excited to see what games come out in the future regardless of what platform it's out for. Also, I have to say jack... you don't know much about PC gaming do you? Cause summing up PC games as being only strategy games and MMORPG’s? You do know that both those are out on consoles right? Halo Wars and may I point out that Marvel intend to release an exclusive MMO on the Xbox 360. A highly anticipated MMO known as Stargate World intends to release on both the Xbox 360 and the PC.

Nothing is exclusive to anything these days and though PC gaming might be going a little downhill and pirating may have to do with it, it would be impossible for that to be the only factor or even the biggest factor, for if it really was I think more than a few developers would talk about it, I think rather large groups would stand up and say "pirating is a very big problem, we haven't the funding to make any new games because of it" and as of right now I am unaware of that having happened.

Fexelea, I think you've done a very good job on researching your side of the argument, considering you haven't really taken a side. I agree with you when it comes to numbers that what you've said is a very logical argument and I appreciate that, I may not have done any number crunching, more to do with the fact number hurt my head when I'm not at work (and when I am) then anything but I do feel you deserve some thanks for your effort.

And Busomjack... I'm getting tired of your disingenuous assertions and snide insinuations. You’re very repetitive, which is sad because your argument never wins and when you keep using a losing argument...

Right I'm done now

Double QFT! lol

[DragonRageGT]

The Grey Spectre wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

RageGT wrote...

This B/S again?
90% of the games CD's sold in the streets or some stands around the world are for CONSOLES! They cost a lot more than their PC version and they're pirated a lot more. Too bad I don't own a console.

Oh, and SELLING illegal version of some products, that's piracy. Someone IS making money instead of the legal owners. File sharing is a whole different thing and some devs, like Stardock, have a much more realistic view of it and of how to make money out of it.

File sharing itself is legal but sharing a copyrighted product is copyright infringement.  I haven't studied the legal definition of piracy but distrubting a copyrighted product through torrent is definetly illegal.

Copyright infringement (file-sharing) is almost always a civil procedure (recovering damages, not punishing) because criminal prosecution requires proof beyond doubt, which can be difficult (such as the case when more than one person had access to the computer).

IIRC, Stardock offered to sell a key to anyone that may have got their games thru filesharing, way cheaper than they would pay if they bought the game in a store, so they could get the benefits of being a registered user and they've had a good response to that.

When people use the word "crime" for file sharing of whatever, it makes me mad. Crime is to defend torture, crime is to make money illegally. Lots of people that play a game downloaded thru file-sharing actually purchase the game, if it is any good, or delete the file if it is a piece of crap.

There's an article from some American University, Economy Dept., proving that file sharing did no damage at all for the music industry and it can be applied to the gaming industry.

And there are some interesting articles, that I consider genius, showing how Anarchy, on a very developed level is a much more just way to live in society, instead of being extortioned (taxes) by corrupt goverments and policed by corrupt authorities paid with part of the extortion plus all their other shady income sources.

And here's some interesting articles on how to make a better gaming community with way less "piracy", besides putting in jail the owners of those CD pressing factories around the world, which there's a joint task force between Interpol and authorities of many countries working on but I'd say they make more money by not arresting the big fishes than otherwise.


http://foobar-rant.l...p/Main/DrmMyths

http://foobar-rant.l.../CopyProtection

On a final note, why haven't you, Busomjack, registered your DA:O copy? It is possible to use a "criminal" copy and registered just the expansion, you know...

Modifié par RageGT, 19 mai 2010 - 06:37 .

[chiliztri]

RageGT wrote...

On a final note, why haven't you, Busomjack, registered your DA:O copy? It is possible to use a "criminal" copy and registered just the expansion, you know...

I believe he registered it on his other account, Borshbeet.

[Massadonious1]

When you take Busomjack seriously, the terrorists win.

[Dethateer]

Massadonious1 wrote...

When you take Busomjack seriously, the terrorists win.

Let them, I say. Their trolling got boring last year. What I truly fear is Gnarl killing a baby seal each time something stupid happens.

[Levi28001]

[quote]Dethateer wrote...

[quote]Massadonious1 wrote...

What I truly fear is Gnarl killing a baby seal each time something stupid happens.

[/quote]
The baby seals are fine, but dislike this thread and of course busomjack.

[The Grey Spectre]

RageGT wrote...

The Grey Spectre wrote...

Busomjack wrote...

RageGT wrote...

This B/S again?
90% of the games CD's sold in the streets or some stands around the world are for CONSOLES! They cost a lot more than their PC version and they're pirated a lot more. Too bad I don't own a console.

Oh, and SELLING illegal version of some products, that's piracy. Someone IS making money instead of the legal owners. File sharing is a whole different thing and some devs, like Stardock, have a much more realistic view of it and of how to make money out of it.

File sharing itself is legal but sharing a copyrighted product is copyright infringement.  I haven't studied the legal definition of piracy but distrubting a copyrighted product through torrent is definetly illegal.

Copyright infringement (file-sharing) is almost always a civil procedure (recovering damages, not punishing) because criminal prosecution requires proof beyond doubt, which can be difficult (such as the case when more than one person had access to the computer).

IIRC, Stardock offered to sell a key to anyone that may have got their games thru filesharing, way cheaper than they would pay if they bought the game in a store, so they could get the benefits of being a registered user and they've had a good response to that.

When people use the word "crime" for file sharing of whatever, it makes me mad. Crime is to defend torture, crime is to make money illegally. Lots of people that play a game downloaded thru file-sharing actually purchase the game, if it is any good, or delete the file if it is a piece of crap.

There's an article from some American University, Economy Dept., proving that file sharing did no damage at all for the music industry and it can be applied to the gaming industry.

And there are some interesting articles, that I consider genius, showing how Anarchy, on a very developed level is a much more just way to live in society, instead of being extortioned (taxes) by corrupt goverments and policed by corrupt authorities paid with part of the extortion plus all their other shady income sources.

And here's some interesting articles on how to make a better gaming community with way less "piracy", besides putting in jail the owners of those CD pressing factories around the world, which there's a joint task force between Interpol and authorities of many countries working on but I'd say they make more money by not arresting the big fishes than otherwise.


http://foobar-rant.l...p/Main/DrmMyths

http://foobar-rant.l.../CopyProtection

On a final note, why haven't you, Busomjack, registered your DA:O copy? It is possible to use a "criminal" copy and registered just the expansion, you know...

Copyright infringement can result in criminal prosecution if there is simply deliberate intent to do so even without turning a profit, but as I said, proving that intent is usually very difficult, which is why most cases are civil, you can also face criminal penalties if you had no criminal intent or the intent to make a profit which is stated in The No Electronic Theft (NET) Act passed by Congress in 1997, by bartering for example, such as uploading a game for someone to download in exchange for an upload from them for you to download. That's the whole point of the NET act, to get people who steal and help others steal without profiting financially.

Modifié par The Grey Spectre, 19 mai 2010 - 08:12 .

[Rubbish Hero]

Part of the problem with Gears Of War, it is more of a console game, it was also a late port.
piracy  is a massive problem though I think, there are millions upon millions of people sitting on pirate bay right now.
It's a rather bad mentality many pc gamers have, they see it as a pro of the platform, not paying for games. There's little to no chance of any repercussions so it becomes like making a cup of tea. With internet more prominent and connections faster, it's not the same trouble as it was before with 56k modems, we can download gigs in hours.


His point about facebook saving pc gaming is ridiculous.
Starcraft II and Daiblo III will outsell both gears of war games and mmo's are still very popular, The Old Republic will most likely outsell both Gears of War Games.


His comment regarding how "it won't look like Gears Of War" like this game is some sort of benchmark over other pc games is also silly, as there are plenty of games on the pc that are technically superior. In fact Cryengine 3 going towards consoles may in fact inadvertently allow games to take more advantage of pc technology over consoles.

A game also doesn't need to be "technically" superior to look "aesthetically" better. For example I think Guild Wars 2 is looking far better than any game Epic has put out, especially Grays of War.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 19 mai 2010 - 09:04 .

[Dethateer]

Holy s**t. Why didn't I get that instead of WoW?

[Onyx Jaguar]

Independent developers have been lost on all sides western console/eastern console, arcade, PC, handheld developers. Piracy is an easy excuse. It may have been the tipping point for some of the indies but definitely not a company as high profile as Epic.

[DragonRageGT]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

Part of the problem with Gears Of War, it is more of a console game, it was also a late port.
piracy  is a massive problem though I think, there are millions upon millions of people sitting on pirate bay right now.
It's a rather bad mentality many pc gamers have, they see it as a pro of the platform, not paying for games. There's little to no chance of any repercussions so it becomes like making a cup of tea. With internet more prominent and connections faster, it's not the same trouble as it was before with 56k modems, we can download gigs in hours.

There may be millions and millions of people sitting on TPB right now but they're hardly d/l anything. I mean, check anything you want there and see how many seeders/leechers there are. For a game like DA:O, 1200/1000... that is so very far from millions and millions.

Unfortunately TPB does not show how many completed d/l of a particular file is done in total. Unlike the site I use to get my TV shows, the ones they do not show in my country and I cannot watch on their official website because they give me that B/S  "you cannot watch this video from your current location". Unless I'm very mistaken, the law states that once the show has been exhibited on the TV, it's fair game to d/l it to watch it as personal enterteinment and without profitting from it.

But still, check whatever you want and you'll see that there are hardly millions of d/l of anything.

On the other hand, there are lots more people buying illegal CD's of games (Console mostly), softwares, movies, music and a lot more, for 10 bucks, on the streets of any major city in this planet.

Did you know that the glorified #1 most influent leader of the world atm, Mr. Lula da Silva ( a great sob, imho) has watched a very popular Brazilian movie picture and it turned out to be a "pirated" DVD? And of course, "he didn't know, he was stabbed in the back". Same answer he gives when their partners get caught red handed stealing millions of dollars, reais, euros, whatever. Same answer he'll give when Iran presents their H bomb.

Anyway, there are issues a lot more serious in this world than some very few people, compared to the millions and millions one might think, sharing files on the internet. They are not causing loss to anyone and that is well beyond proved already. Some will even purchase the real thing if they like. Some will never purchase because they can't or they won't and thus, the seller is not losing anything because they would never see that money to begin with.

Unlike those that are actually paying for illegal DVD's only because they costs 50-90% less than the real thing (Corel Draw is my bet as #1 pirated software by professionals that use it to make money! I've seen it in some Govermental dept. where I have worked at). And where are those who are selling them? Not the lame guy at the corner, but those who produce it in scale and sell millions of copies around the world? Dare you really compare some geeks that use TPB with those?

[Rubbish Hero]

RageGT wrote... There may be millions and millions of people sitting on TPB right now but they're hardly d/l anything. I mean, check anything you want there and see how many seeders/leechers there are. For a game like DA:O, 1200/1000... that is so very far from millions and millions.

Yea maybe now, but when it was released it was sitting at top, likewise with many other games, there has been millions of copies pirated. That's not taking into account  other stuff on the internet like rapidshare which sits with 3 million users on it constantly.

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 19 mai 2010 - 09:55 .

[chiliztri]

Rubbish Hero wrote...

RageGT wrote... There may be millions and millions of people sitting on TPB right now but they're hardly d/l anything. I mean, check anything you want there and see how many seeders/leechers there are. For a game like DA:O, 1200/1000... that is so very far from millions and millions.

Yea maybe now, but when it was released it was sitting at top, likewise with many other games, there has been millions of copies pirated. That's not taking into account  other stuff on the internet like rapidshare which sits with 3 million users on it constantly.

Doubtful. Splinter Cell Conviction is at the top right now on TPB. If you take it's seed/leech count, and add another 50% increase for any hit-and-runs you'd roughly have around 13 thousand. A 50% increase is also being very generous. I'd say a more reasonable amount is 20-25%.

That's hardly in the millions upon millions.

Modifié par chiliztri, 19 mai 2010 - 10:02 .

[Dethateer]

SC:C shouldn't count against downloaders, just like C&C4 and AC2, considering the DRM they have.

[Rubbish Hero]

chiliztri wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...

RageGT wrote... There may be millions and millions of people sitting on TPB right now but they're hardly d/l anything. I mean, check anything you want there and see how many seeders/leechers there are. For a game like DA:O, 1200/1000... that is so very far from millions and millions.

Yea maybe now, but when it was released it was sitting at top, likewise with many other games, there has been millions of copies pirated. That's not taking into account  other stuff on the internet like rapidshare which sits with 3 million users on it constantly.

Doubtful. Splinter Cell Conviction is at the top right now on TPB. If you take it's seed/leech count, and add another 50% increase for any hit-and-runs you'd roughly have around 13 thousand. A 50% increase is also being very generous. I'd say a more reasonable amount is 20-25%.

That's hardly in the millions upon millions.

http://torrentfreak....of-2009-091227/

Modifié par Rubbish Hero, 19 mai 2010 - 10:07 .

[Loerwyn]

Dethateer wrote...

Holy s**t. Why didn't I get that instead of WoW?

Because it's not out yet?

[chiliztri]

Rubbish Hero wrote...


http://torrentfreak....of-2008-081204/

That's just factoring in amount of downloads. That doesn't mean that Spore potentially lost 1.7 million customers. If you want to post articles I can do that too.

http://blog.wolfire....-of-game-piracy

Modifié par chiliztri, 19 mai 2010 - 10:12 .

[Dethateer]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

Dethateer wrote...

Holy s**t. Why didn't I get that instead of WoW?

Because it's not out yet?

That's beside the point.

[Rubbish Hero]

chiliztri wrote...

Rubbish Hero wrote...


http://torrentfreak....of-2008-081204/

That's just factoring in amount of downloads. That doesn't mean that Spore potentially lost 1.7 million customers.

It doesn't mean they didn't.
This again isn't the entire internet or physical piracy sales, it's a slice of the pie that is most likely much larger than even that.