268 réponses à ce sujet

[Ecael]

Updating the thread with an idea for the Morality Paragon/Renegade system as well.

The Morality System
There have been a few discussions on how the morality system works in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and although I play pure Paragon and Renegade characters, neither of these systems benefit people who want to play based on each individual choice, or people who play Paragades.

That is why I am suggesting that Paragon/Renegade bars should stay (and continue to scale with each mission completed), but should be also combined with a total Persuade bar based on all Persuasion checks passed:

(Light purple = Current persuasion)
(Dark purple = Persuasion opportunities missed)
(Transparent = Persuasion opportunities yet to occur)

The bar will add both Paragon and Renegade and will be used in conjunction with Paragon or Renegade in order to decide persuasion ability. However, there are a few caveats for playing Paragade/Renegon with this bar:

1. If Paragon is higher than Renegade at the time and you perform a Renegade action, you suffer a slight penalty from the Persuasion gained (but not too much). This also applies to performing a Paragon action when Renegade is higher.

2. If Paragon is higher than Renegade, Renegade interrupts will NOT add any points to persuasion (and vice-versa).

3. Some Paragon/Renegade checks will require a Paragade/Renegon to "Investigate" further in order to unlock them, where as pure Paragon/Renegade will not have this requirement (similar to the persuasion checks in Tali's loyalty mission).

The first two listed (1, 2) add a sense of cognitive dissonance for Shepard, who is conflicted between her or his behavior and current attitude.At the same time, this prevents the morality system from outright denying people from possible persuasion checks just because they wanted to play both Paragon and Renegade.

The penalties incurred from cognitive dissonance can be made up for with +negotiation bonus armor, import bonuses, and/or the "Investigate" further system as stated Rule 3.

Good idea/Bad idea?

Modifié par Ecael, 27 mai 2010 - 01:12 .

[TelexFerra]

You could be given another chance on the way back?

EDIT: I do like it, though those stipulations make it seem a bit complicated

Modifié par TelexFerra, 27 mai 2010 - 01:15 .

[Ecael]

TelexFerra wrote...

You could be given another chance on the way back?

EDIT: I do like it, though those stipulations make it seem a bit complicated

Well, BioWare doesn't like to repeat the same ambient dialogue twice (getting two squadmates to say something again in the ME1 elevator was difficult), so there has to be a trigger to activate the dialogue instead of including it with every trip. So as long as there's a dialogue box inside the shuttle to start it, it's a very good idea as well.

As for the stipulations - it's actually just as complicated as the morality system in ME2, but a lot less unfair.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

I like it.

[TelexFerra]

Feel free to change my idea as you see fit and add it to your original post if you'd like

[cachx]

On the squad banter issue I actually prefer it as it is now in ME2(you activate a point somewhere to get a line), or like DAO does (certain spots in certain maps trigger a banter). For some reason I don't want the banter to be so closely tied to load screens, maybe my brain was subliminaly affected by ME1 elevators, relating "if loading is bad, and banter happens during loading, then banter is bad too". But that's just me being silly

I like point 3 of the morality thing but the whole idea might be a tad too complicated. The persuasion bar might as well be hidden, and those calculations made behind the scenes, nothing seems to be gained from the previous system, other than restricting a bit renegon/paragade players.

[TelexFerra]

But the conversations wouldn't be tied to loading screens. In all cases, the conversations could be bypassed.

[MrNose]

Interesting and well thought out ideas.

[TelexFerra]

Now only if Bioware noticed them !!



lol

[Ecael]

TelexFerra wrote...

Now only if Bioware noticed them !!

lol

I'll add the shuttle idea once I find a good picture of inside the shuttle to 'photoshop.

I know the Lazarus Project, Kasumi's loyalty (ending) and Jack's loyalty (beginning and end) have shuttle scenes, but they're kind of dark to place anything light-colored on it.

[TelexFerra]

I think Kasumi's shot of the interior of the shuttle is brightest.



Else, you can see if Overlord provides a shuttle scene, though I'd expect it to just involve hammerhead landings.

[Lumikki]

I think your ideas are fine and well done.

The moralty system is more like calculated mid bar from paragon/renegade to allow neutral special dialog options, when player is more balanced. I don't mind it. It doesn't really solve problem, but it does allows more dialog options to neural character.

How ever, I think ME3 will surprice us all, how different it will be.

[VampireCommando]

Great idea!



Now all we need is for BW to notice .

[Mr.BlazenGlazen]

Ecael wrote...

Updating the thread with an idea for the Morality Paragon/Renegade system as well.

The Morality System
There have been a few discussions on how the morality system works in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and although I play pure Paragon and Renegade characters, neither of these systems benefit people who want to play based on each individual choice, or people who play Paragades.

That is why I am suggesting that Paragon/Renegade bars should stay (and continue to scale with each mission completed), but should be also combined with a total Persuade bar based on all Persuasion checks passed:

(Light purple = Current persuasion)
(Dark purple = Persuasion opportunities missed)
(Transparent = Persuasion opportunities yet to occur)

The bar will add both Paragon and Renegade and will be used in conjunction with Paragon or Renegade in order to decide persuasion ability. However, there are a few caveats for playing Paragade/Renegon with this bar:

1. If Paragon is higher than Renegade at the time and you perform a Renegade action, you suffer a slight penalty from the Persuasion gained (but not too much). This also applies to performing a Paragon action when Renegade is higher.

2. If Paragon is higher than Renegade, Renegade interrupts will NOT add any points to persuasion (and vice-versa).

3. Some Paragon/Renegade checks will require a Paragade/Renegon to "Investigate" further in order to unlock them, where as pure Paragon/Renegade will not have this requirement (similar to the persuasion checks in Tali's loyalty mission).

The first two listed (1, 2) add a sense of cognitive dissonance for Shepard, who is conflicted between her or his behavior and current attitude.At the same time, this prevents the morality system from outright denying people from possible persuasion checks just because they wanted to play both Paragon and Renegade.

The penalties incurred from cognitive dissonance can be made up for with +negotiation bonus armor, import bonuses, and/or the "Investigate" further system as stated Rule 3.

Good idea/Bad idea?

Ecael you should be a bioware dev. I like your ideas so far.

[TelexFerra]

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Updating the thread with an idea for the Morality Paragon/Renegade system as well.

The Morality System
There have been a few discussions on how the morality system works in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and although I play pure Paragon and Renegade characters, neither of these systems benefit people who want to play based on each individual choice, or people who play Paragades.

That is why I am suggesting that Paragon/Renegade bars should stay (and continue to scale with each mission completed), but should be also combined with a total Persuade bar based on all Persuasion checks passed:

(Light purple = Current persuasion)
(Dark purple = Persuasion opportunities missed)
(Transparent = Persuasion opportunities yet to occur)

The bar will add both Paragon and Renegade and will be used in conjunction with Paragon or Renegade in order to decide persuasion ability. However, there are a few caveats for playing Paragade/Renegon with this bar:

1. If Paragon is higher than Renegade at the time and you perform a Renegade action, you suffer a slight penalty from the Persuasion gained (but not too much). This also applies to performing a Paragon action when Renegade is higher.

2. If Paragon is higher than Renegade, Renegade interrupts will NOT add any points to persuasion (and vice-versa).

3. Some Paragon/Renegade checks will require a Paragade/Renegon to "Investigate" further in order to unlock them, where as pure Paragon/Renegade will not have this requirement (similar to the persuasion checks in Tali's loyalty mission).

The first two listed (1, 2) add a sense of cognitive dissonance for Shepard, who is conflicted between her or his behavior and current attitude.At the same time, this prevents the morality system from outright denying people from possible persuasion checks just because they wanted to play both Paragon and Renegade.

The penalties incurred from cognitive dissonance can be made up for with +negotiation bonus armor, import bonuses, and/or the "Investigate" further system as stated Rule 3.

Good idea/Bad idea?

Ecael you should be a bioware dev. I like your ideas so far.

QFT

[TelexFerra]

I am reduced to the level of saying bump

[Ecael]

Added TelexFerra's idea (with a minor change!):

Option 3: The Shuttle - *Update*

TelexFerra suggested that the shuttle itself can be used as a conversational area. After adding a slight improvement, I came up with this quick picture using Kasumi's loyalty mission:

Optional Shuttle Dialogue (click for full image):


You can either talk to your squadmates or just listen in as they talk to each other on the shuttle (like the elevator). A small CGI cutscene of the shuttle traveling in the corner also plays while it loads. Additionally, it will inform you once it has finished loading that you can skip to the mission.

[Ieldra]

This is just to say that I like your idea for a revamp of the morality system, Ecael. Bioware devs should consider it.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 28 mai 2010 - 01:58 .

[FuturePasTimeCE]

TelexFerra wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Updating the thread with an idea for the Morality Paragon/Renegade system as well.

The Morality System
There have been a few discussions on how the morality system works in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and although I play pure Paragon and Renegade characters, neither of these systems benefit people who want to play based on each individual choice, or people who play Paragades.

That is why I am suggesting that Paragon/Renegade bars should stay (and continue to scale with each mission completed), but should be also combined with a total Persuade bar based on all Persuasion checks passed:

(Light purple = Current persuasion)
(Dark purple = Persuasion opportunities missed)
(Transparent = Persuasion opportunities yet to occur)

The bar will add both Paragon and Renegade and will be used in conjunction with Paragon or Renegade in order to decide persuasion ability. However, there are a few caveats for playing Paragade/Renegon with this bar:

1. If Paragon is higher than Renegade at the time and you perform a Renegade action, you suffer a slight penalty from the Persuasion gained (but not too much). This also applies to performing a Paragon action when Renegade is higher.

2. If Paragon is higher than Renegade, Renegade interrupts will NOT add any points to persuasion (and vice-versa).

3. Some Paragon/Renegade checks will require a Paragade/Renegon to "Investigate" further in order to unlock them, where as pure Paragon/Renegade will not have this requirement (similar to the persuasion checks in Tali's loyalty mission).

The first two listed (1, 2) add a sense of cognitive dissonance for Shepard, who is conflicted between her or his behavior and current attitude.At the same time, this prevents the morality system from outright denying people from possible persuasion checks just because they wanted to play both Paragon and Renegade.

The penalties incurred from cognitive dissonance can be made up for with +negotiation bonus armor, import bonuses, and/or the "Investigate" further system as stated Rule 3.

Good idea/Bad idea?

Ecael you should be a bioware dev. I like your ideas so far.

QFT

what he said.

[TelexFerra]

FuturePasTimeCE wrote...

TelexFerra wrote...

Mr.BlazenGlazen wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Updating the thread with an idea for the Morality Paragon/Renegade system as well.

The Morality System
There have been a few discussions on how the morality system works in Mass Effect 1 and 2, and although I play pure Paragon and Renegade characters, neither of these systems benefit people who want to play based on each individual choice, or people who play Paragades.

That is why I am suggesting that Paragon/Renegade bars should stay (and continue to scale with each mission completed), but should be also combined with a total Persuade bar based on all Persuasion checks passed:

(Light purple = Current persuasion)
(Dark purple = Persuasion opportunities missed)
(Transparent = Persuasion opportunities yet to occur)

The bar will add both Paragon and Renegade and will be used in conjunction with Paragon or Renegade in order to decide persuasion ability. However, there are a few caveats for playing Paragade/Renegon with this bar:

1. If Paragon is higher than Renegade at the time and you perform a Renegade action, you suffer a slight penalty from the Persuasion gained (but not too much). This also applies to performing a Paragon action when Renegade is higher.

2. If Paragon is higher than Renegade, Renegade interrupts will NOT add any points to persuasion (and vice-versa).

3. Some Paragon/Renegade checks will require a Paragade/Renegon to "Investigate" further in order to unlock them, where as pure Paragon/Renegade will not have this requirement (similar to the persuasion checks in Tali's loyalty mission).

The first two listed (1, 2) add a sense of cognitive dissonance for Shepard, who is conflicted between her or his behavior and current attitude.At the same time, this prevents the morality system from outright denying people from possible persuasion checks just because they wanted to play both Paragon and Renegade.

The penalties incurred from cognitive dissonance can be made up for with +negotiation bonus armor, import bonuses, and/or the "Investigate" further system as stated Rule 3.

Good idea/Bad idea?

Ecael you should be a bioware dev. I like your ideas so far.

QFT

what he said.

she

[TelexFerra]

What about adding lines of dialogue to some of the loyalty so that we feel that members of the team know and care for each other. (honestly, did anyone besides Kasumi, Jacob, and Miranda talk about anyone else on the team?)



Say, you go on Garrus' loyalty mission and you bring Jack. While en route to kill Sidonis, maybe Jack could make some comment to Garrus that he definitely should kill Sidonis. If you bring Thane, maybe he'll offer to help Garrus with the assasination. Perhaps Samara would be extremely opposed to it and would try to talk Garrus down.



Or there's the example of Tali's loyalty mission. If you bring Garrus, he doesn't say a word during the entire trial! What!?

[Ecael]

TelexFerra wrote...

What about adding lines of dialogue to some of the loyalty so that we feel that members of the team know and care for each other. (honestly, did anyone besides Kasumi, Jacob, and Miranda talk about anyone else on the team?)

Say, you go on Garrus' loyalty mission and you bring Jack. While en route to kill Sidonis, maybe Jack could make some comment to Garrus that he definitely should kill Sidonis. If you bring Thane, maybe he'll offer to help Garrus with the assasination. Perhaps Samara would be extremely opposed to it and would try to talk Garrus down.

Or there's the example of Tali's loyalty mission. If you bring Garrus, he doesn't say a word during the entire trial! What!?

I don't think they'll be adding any new dialogue to the current missions, but I think we'd all like to see more squad interactions in ME3 (or the expansion, if there is one).

[TelexFerra]

Yea, I guess.



I just think it's silly that the team never really discuss one another. The game emphasizes that the team needs ot be cohesive, and to be cohesive they all need to trust Shepard implicitly. Wouldn't trusting EACH OTHER also be a huge factor?

[Nightvision91]

One of the best ideas I've ever read. I really hope Bioware reads this, and takes this into consideration.

[Redem0]

I like the idea too,