74 réponses à ce sujet

[mosor]

OniGanon wrote...

The best boss-killer short of a heavy weapon is the Viper. The only exception to this that I can think of is Scions because of their massive headshot flinching.

The Widow's strength is in quickly dispatching weaker enemies. Anything that survives one of its shots usually plays into the Viper's hands.

The Revanent or shotguns are handicapped by their range. Bosses are enemies you usually are forced to fight at a distance (Terminator, Thresher Maw etc), or are just the kind of enemy you don't want to fight close up anyway (YMIR, Praetorian).


As for Praetorians and cover, they along with YMIRs are usually best fought by placing cover between you and it and NOT being pressed against said cover. This way with fancy footwork you can be mostly safe from their fire while still being able to hit them.

To be honest, I never had a problem taking any boss enemy down with the revenant.  They're so big it's hard to miss. Then again I take out the threasher maw out really easily just using the carnifex hand cannon.

[cruc1al]

OniGanon wrote...

The best boss-killer short of a heavy weapon is the Viper.

Against lower bosses that react to the bullet impact, I agree. But against praetorians, YMIRs and such, widow is much safer. If you want to achieve the same damage output with the Viper, you're likely to have to resort to medigel.

[VampireCommando]

The M920 cain?

[mosor]

VampireCommando wrote...

The M920 cain?

No challenge in the cain. The only time I use the cain is if I want to save all 20 boxes on Daratar. Other than that, I just use it if I don't really feel like playing anymore and just want to end the fight quickly.

[lovgreno]

Both are good enough I suppose. You can pick the weapon that is more your style. Somehow it feels more "classy" to headshot enemies with the Widow than bullethosing them with the Renevant.

Modifié par lovgreno, 20 mai 2010 - 09:12 .

[OniGanon]

cruc1al wrote...
Against lower bosses that react to the bullet impact, I agree. But against praetorians, YMIRs and such, widow is much safer. If you want to achieve the same damage output with the Viper, you're likely to have to resort to medigel.

Not really. As I said, it's usually better to fight them while not pressed against cover, so you can move around and keep the cover between the hail of bullets/blue lazors and yourself, while being able to fire near constantly. I find that much safer than popping in and out of cover.

Fight them like this, basically:

[mosor]

lovgreno wrote...

Both are good enough I suppose. You can pick the weapon that is more your style. Somehow it feels more "classy" to headshot enemies with the Widow than bullethosing them with the Renevant.

Yeah but the revvy makes me feel like the terminator.

[cruc1al]

OniGanon wrote...

cruc1al wrote...
Against lower bosses that react to the bullet impact, I agree. But against praetorians, YMIRs and such, widow is much safer. If you want to achieve the same damage output with the Viper, you're likely to have to resort to medigel.

Not really. As I said, it's usually better to fight them while not pressed against cover, so you can move around and keep the cover between the hail of bullets/blue lazors and yourself, while being able to fire near constantly. I find that much safer than popping in and out of cover.

Fight them like this, basically:

Yeah you're right, actually. Staying behind cover while not locked into it allows you to shoot the enemy without being shot at. That's easier to achieve when the obstacle is on the left side of your enemy, because your camera angle is on the right side of shepard.

[calmbombv2oh]

cruc1al wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

cruc1al wrote...
Against lower bosses that react to the bullet impact, I agree. But against praetorians, YMIRs and such, widow is much safer. If you want to achieve the same damage output with the Viper, you're likely to have to resort to medigel.

Not really. As I said, it's usually better to fight them while not pressed against cover, so you can move around and keep the cover between the hail of bullets/blue lazors and yourself, while being able to fire near constantly. I find that much safer than popping in and out of cover.

Fight them like this, basically:

Yeah you're right, actually. Staying behind cover while not locked into it allows you to shoot the enemy without being shot at. That's easier to achieve when the obstacle is on the left side of your enemy, because your camera angle is on the right side of shepard.

Constantly strafing to the right ftw!

[lovgreno]

mosor wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Both are good enough I suppose. You can pick the weapon that is more your style. Somehow it feels more "classy" to headshot enemies with the Widow than bullethosing them with the Renevant.

Yeah but the revvy makes me feel like the terminator.

True. Shepard is cyborged halfways to a terminator anyway.

[HTTP 404]

OniGanon wrote...

The best boss-killer short of a heavy weapon is the Viper. The only exception to this that I can think of is Scions because of their massive headshot flinching.

The Widow's strength is in quickly dispatching weaker enemies. Anything that survives one of its shots usually plays into the Viper's hands.

The Revanent or shotguns are handicapped by their range. Bosses are enemies you usually are forced to fight at a distance (Terminator, Thresher Maw etc), or are just the kind of enemy you don't want to fight close up anyway (YMIR, Praetorian).


As for Praetorians and cover, they along with YMIRs are usually best fought by placing cover between you and it and NOT being pressed against said cover. This way with fancy footwork you can be mostly safe from their fire while still being able to hit them. If you press yourself against cover, you can't attack them without your shields going down faster than you can say "OHSHI-"

this sounds like a ranged playstyle doesnt mean it isnt better or worse than others.  I have played your said style of play numerous times and it works but as a vangaurd I have charged shot, melee, rinse, repeat on praetorians over and over again till they are dead, again different way of playing.  

[Arijharn]

lovgreno wrote...

Both are good enough I suppose. You can pick the weapon that is more your style. Somehow it feels more "classy" to headshot enemies with the Widow than bullethosing them with the Renevant.

It's pretty classy to somehow manage headshots with the revvy though...

[jaff00]

JaegerBane wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

Go with the Widow. The revvy's a spray&pray piece of crap. The only situations where it does the job (ever so slightly) better than the vindicator are point-blank skirmishes and those aren't too frequent.
Plus, even at a range where the revvy will actually be spraying on target, most of the hits will simply be bodyshots whereas the vindicator's imba accuracy will allow for triple-headshot bursts with fairly little effort.

There's so much wrong with this I'm not even sure where to start. The idea that short-range skimrishes only happen rarely in ME2 is hilarious, the fact that you apparently forget the Vindi runs dry after a few seconds is questionable and the idea that the Rev only works as a spray-and-pray is an old cliche that lost credence not long after ME2 came out.

The Vindicator is definitely a precision tool. Great for headshots, most definitely. It doesn't, however, have any endurance whatsoever, becomes clumsy in close range situations and it's effectiveness on bosses leaves a lot to be desired. They're two completely different rifles. At medium range the two weapons are very similar in effectiveness - what the Rev lacks in sheer per-shot damage it makes up for in the fact that it can keep firing for the same amount of time the Vindi would spend shooting two clips (and effectively ~47% of your total ammo). The Vindi is better at long range, but at short range the slow rof of the Vindi makes it virtually useless.

Oh jesus, being clueless is just a way of life for you, isn't it? Or is it just that you're purposely being dense to annoy the ****** out of others who make valid points?
First of all, I didn't say "close range situations", I said "POINT BLANK", there's a difference, go fetch yourself a dictionary.
As for the rest of your post, saying the vindi is clumsy and virtually useless in close range situations (can I get a LOL?), I can only conclude that pointing and clicking with even marginal precision really isn't your forté. Which is fine by the way, shooters aren't for everyone (No, I'm not saying ME2 is strictly a shooter, it's just an aspect of the game, zip it) . I'm sure you have other skills. Coherent reasoning excluded.
Yes, the revvy has more bullets but really what's the point in having more ammo if most of it gets lodged in the wall behind your target. Whereas with the vindicator, especially with AR on, there's really no reason for any of your bullets not to be headshots.

[Getorex]

Just finished my 7th playthrough.  THIS time I picked the Widow instead of Revenant.  I think I like the Widow at least as much as the Revenant. 

I play as a soldier and on the last playthrough I stuck with the geth pulse rifle for my AR, would have at least one other team member carry a Vindicator (for its supposed slight superiority on armor vs the pulse rifle) and used the Widow a lot (works really well with adrenaline boost). 

Dispatches pesky Scions easily, takes down Geth Destroyers and other biggies.  Slow to fire so you need to be in cover but it does a good job.

Vindicator to me seems like a rapid-fire shotgun.  Only really good for fairly close range because its accuracy is so crap. 

[Getorex]

Again, can't go wrong with a Geth pulse rifle (fast firing, almost an endless stream beats even the Revenant) as your AR and going with the Widow for bosses of various types. 

Revenant...I played 5 times through and selected that weapon over the Widow or Claymore.  On the 6th I fat fingered and selected the Claymore (MISTAKE!  Almost worthless).  On the last play I went with Widow and was very surprised and happy with the results.  The Widow should actually be a bit more powerful - to be anything remotely like a RL Barrett sniper rifle which is, on virtually any target aside from a tank or heavy armored troop carrier, a one shot, one kill rifle. 

The Revenant really is a spay-and-pray AR, especially at moderate to longer range.

The Geth pulse rifle has such a high volume of fire (even during its slow sinewave cycle) and such a continuous stream that it more than makes up for its weaker damage per shot to armor.

I'm Commander Shepard and the Geth Pulse Rifle in combo with the Widow sniper rifle are the best combo in ME2.

jaff00 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

Go with the Widow. The revvy's a spray&pray piece of crap. The only situations where it does the job (ever so slightly) better than the vindicator are point-blank skirmishes and those aren't too frequent.
Plus, even at a range where the revvy will actually be spraying on target, most of the hits will simply be bodyshots whereas the vindicator's imba accuracy will allow for triple-headshot bursts with fairly little effort.

There's so much wrong with this I'm not even sure where to start. The idea that short-range skimrishes only happen rarely in ME2 is hilarious, the fact that you apparently forget the Vindi runs dry after a few seconds is questionable and the idea that the Rev only works as a spray-and-pray is an old cliche that lost credence not long after ME2 came out.

The Vindicator is definitely a precision tool. Great for headshots, most definitely. It doesn't, however, have any endurance whatsoever, becomes clumsy in close range situations and it's effectiveness on bosses leaves a lot to be desired. They're two completely different rifles. At medium range the two weapons are very similar in effectiveness - what the Rev lacks in sheer per-shot damage it makes up for in the fact that it can keep firing for the same amount of time the Vindi would spend shooting two clips (and effectively ~47% of your total ammo). The Vindi is better at long range, but at short range the slow rof of the Vindi makes it virtually useless.

Oh jesus, being clueless is just a way of life for you, isn't it? Or is it just that you're purposely being dense to annoy the ****** out of others who make valid points?
First of all, I didn't say "close range situations", I said "POINT BLANK", there's a difference, go fetch yourself a dictionary.
As for the rest of your post, saying the vindi is clumsy and virtually useless in close range situations (can I get a LOL?), I can only conclude that pointing and clicking with even marginal precision really isn't your forté. Which is fine by the way, shooters aren't for everyone (No, I'm not saying ME2 is strictly a shooter, it's just an aspect of the game, zip it) . I'm sure you have other skills. Coherent reasoning excluded.
Yes, the revvy has more bullets but really what's the point in having more ammo if most of it gets lodged in the wall behind your target. Whereas with the vindicator, especially with AR on, there's really no reason for any of your bullets not to be headshots.

[HTTP 404]

jaff00 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

Go with the Widow. The revvy's a spray&pray piece of crap. The only situations where it does the job (ever so slightly) better than the vindicator are point-blank skirmishes and those aren't too frequent.
Plus, even at a range where the revvy will actually be spraying on target, most of the hits will simply be bodyshots whereas the vindicator's imba accuracy will allow for triple-headshot bursts with fairly little effort.

There's so much wrong with this I'm not even sure where to start. The idea that short-range skimrishes only happen rarely in ME2 is hilarious, the fact that you apparently forget the Vindi runs dry after a few seconds is questionable and the idea that the Rev only works as a spray-and-pray is an old cliche that lost credence not long after ME2 came out.

The Vindicator is definitely a precision tool. Great for headshots, most definitely. It doesn't, however, have any endurance whatsoever, becomes clumsy in close range situations and it's effectiveness on bosses leaves a lot to be desired. They're two completely different rifles. At medium range the two weapons are very similar in effectiveness - what the Rev lacks in sheer per-shot damage it makes up for in the fact that it can keep firing for the same amount of time the Vindi would spend shooting two clips (and effectively ~47% of your total ammo). The Vindi is better at long range, but at short range the slow rof of the Vindi makes it virtually useless.

Oh jesus, being clueless is just a way of life for you, isn't it? Or is it just that you're purposely being dense to annoy the ****** out of others who make valid points?
First of all, I didn't say "close range situations", I said "POINT BLANK", there's a difference, go fetch yourself a dictionary.
As for the rest of your post, saying the vindi is clumsy and virtually useless in close range situations (can I get a LOL?), I can only conclude that pointing and clicking with even marginal precision really isn't your forté. Which is fine by the way, shooters aren't for everyone (No, I'm not saying ME2 is strictly a shooter, it's just an aspect of the game, zip it) . I'm sure you have other skills. Coherent reasoning excluded.
Yes, the revvy has more bullets but really what's the point in having more ammo if most of it gets lodged in the wall behind your target. Whereas with the vindicator, especially with AR on, there's really no reason for any of your bullets not to be headshots.

I agree that the widow is a better gun than the revy and handsdown I think its better at killing bosses and elites but on insanity the difficulty for me is negligible between the two.  Sometimes its pretty damn nice to light someone up with the revy.  Sometimes the widow is just a plain ol yawn at times.  (used it twice, once with infiltrator, and one of two playthroughs with soldier)

Also on a side note, fully automatics in ME2 when manually bursted increase accuracy (tempest, avenger, revy).  I respectfully disagree with you that the revy is a short-point blank-insert similar term type of gun, I think its range is more middle ground sharing the range of biotic/tech locks on targets.  However when it comes to husks, it is ridiculously easy to kill especially if you put an ammo power.

[lovgreno]

Arijharn wrote...

lovgreno wrote...

Both are good enough I suppose. You can pick the weapon that is more your style. Somehow it feels more "classy" to headshot enemies with the Widow than bullethosing them with the Renevant.

It's pretty classy to somehow manage headshots with the revvy though...

I can't argue with that!

[MassEffect762]

Revenant(once at fully upgraded) is dominant at close to mid range.

Widow is beast at any range but it's "bolt action" reload mechanism is it's achilles heel.

Both with the right type of game plan will win you the battle.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 22 mai 2010 - 02:59 .

[HTTP 404]

DrathanGervaise wrote...

It's surprising how many threads are just like this one.

how doesyour comment contribute to this one?  topics are always going to be recycled through the months just like every forum.  this guy wanted to ask a question, far easier to post a topic then sift through old ones.  If you choose to contribute you could post a link to an old topic or you can shut up. 

[mosor]

jaff00 wrote...

Oh jesus, being clueless is just a way of life for you, isn't it? Or is it just that you're purposely being dense to annoy the ****** out of others who make valid points?
First of all, I didn't say "close range situations", I said "POINT BLANK", there's a difference, go fetch yourself a dictionary.
As for the rest of your post, saying the vindi is clumsy and virtually useless in close range situations (can I get a LOL?), I can only conclude that pointing and clicking with even marginal precision really isn't your forté. Which is fine by the way, shooters aren't for everyone (No, I'm not saying ME2 is strictly a shooter, it's just an aspect of the game, zip it) . I'm sure you have other skills. Coherent reasoning excluded.
Yes, the revvy has more bullets but really what's the point in having more ammo if most of it gets lodged in the wall behind your target. Whereas with the vindicator, especially with AR on, there's really no reason for any of your bullets not to be headshots.

Yeah Revvy is excellent point blank. It's also excellent at medium ranges, and with adrenaline rush it's extremely accurate. You might want to change your tactics with the revvy. It might not put all it's bullets in a single target but there is also an advantage to that. If you have two or three enemies in a group, the bullets have a good chanceof damaging and lighting up (if you have inferno) all three people. The vindicator is one taget at a time. With the Revvy, you have to learn how to flank people and act like a shock trooper (there is a reason that passive is labeled as such), which isn't hard to do with adrenaline rush turned on.

The  vindicator is more about staying behind cover and taking your headshots and acting like a sniping commando. You just have to change your tactics. You can't use the same for both. Are both effective on insanity? Hell yes they are.

Modifié par mosor, 22 mai 2010 - 06:06 .

[OniGanon]

It's entirely possible to effectively use a Vindicator at point blank. It just kind've begs the question of 'why not use a shotgun?'

[jaff00]

Getorex wrote...
Vindicator to me seems like a rapid-fire shotgun.  Only really good for fairly close range because its accuracy is so crap. 

I take it you meant the rev? In which case I concur; even with the AR accuracy upgrade and controlled bursts you can't consistently score headshots with the rev unless your target is in your face; whereas with the vindicator you can do that at virtually any range. I decided to try another soldier NG+ run revvy-spamsession, constantly firing short bursts but you still might as well be pissing in the dark. Regardless of whether you aim for the head, the torso, or just move your crosshair somewhere in the general vicinity of your mark, you'll score more or less the same amount of hits. So taking that into account, if one's aim is so-so,  the revvy is a decent enough choice.
But it's not as though enemies are particularly agile in this game. Generally speaking, I'd say the revvy made for about a 50% reduction in killing speed when compared to the vindicator. Certain things were easier of course, most notably the praetorian encounters, for obvious reasons. It's a bulky sob and the high-ammo capacity + sustained fire by just abusing the camera angle so you can shoot it, without it being able to target you, really shined there.

[jaff00]

mosor wrote...

jaff00 wrote...

Oh jesus, being clueless is just a way of life for you, isn't it? Or is it just that you're purposely being dense to annoy the ****** out of others who make valid points?
First of all, I didn't say "close range situations", I said "POINT BLANK", there's a difference, go fetch yourself a dictionary.
As for the rest of your post, saying the vindi is clumsy and virtually useless in close range situations (can I get a LOL?), I can only conclude that pointing and clicking with even marginal precision really isn't your forté. Which is fine by the way, shooters aren't for everyone (No, I'm not saying ME2 is strictly a shooter, it's just an aspect of the game, zip it) . I'm sure you have other skills. Coherent reasoning excluded.
Yes, the revvy has more bullets but really what's the point in having more ammo if most of it gets lodged in the wall behind your target. Whereas with the vindicator, especially with AR on, there's really no reason for any of your bullets not to be headshots.

Yeah Revvy is excellent point blank. It's also excellent at medium ranges, and with adrenaline rush it's extremely accurate. You might want to change your tactics with the revvy. It might not put all it's bullets in a single target but there is also an advantage to that. If you have two or three enemies in a group, the bullets have a good chanceof damaging and lighting up (if you have inferno) all three people. The vindicator is one taget at a time. With the Revvy, you have to learn how to flank people and act like a shock trooper (there is a reason that passive is labeled as such), which isn't hard to do with adrenaline rush turned on.

The  vindicator is more about staying behind cover and taking your headshots and acting like a sniping commando. You just have to change your tactics. You can't use the same for both. Are both effective on insanity? Hell yes they are.

That's a good point you raise there actually. With the rev's ****ty accuracy it stands to reason you should try to close the distance; which works particularly well with adrenaline rush but this playing style also comes with its necesarry (if marginal) risks. While I still found the vindicator more effective in terms of dispatching the mobs quickly and efficiently, abovementioned style with the rev works pretty good too.