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[Dethateer]

Aradace wrote...

*gets out his beating stick and drags out the poor, dead, decomposing horse and begins beating it some more*

Can I join the fun? I always enjoy beating dead (and living) things.

[Orchomene]

Well, it seems that some people feel more immersed when they keep being 'in the action', that is that anything outside of the action is a distraction and cuts their immersion. Those are the ones that think that ME2 goes a step further with respect to immersion.

Some other people, like me, would rather feel immersion when the action is embedded in a lot of variety of choices, even non sense choices (like killing everyone in a city and being imprisonned for thatà or just ignoring NPCs) that nobody would take. It gives an illusion of freedom.

Of course, like it's been said above by spacehamsterZH, one can neglect/refuse the illusion of freedom by admiting it's not a real freedom.



I just wanted to add to mopotter : you may want to change your definition after having played Planescape Torment. In this RPG (one of the best I consider), you don't have any choice of character at the beginning. Yet, the story is so intensive that you can't avoid feeling to be the Nameless One.

[Kusy]

Whenever I see a thread like this I post this image. But this time I'll say something decent.

I finished Mass Effect 2 five times by now. And I must addmit - with each run I see even more things that bothers me. Those were some really good points you have made Orchomene, especialy the one about "evolution" of the character and surroundings. The missions doesn't get more difficult at all, even more than that - I found some of the early missions more difficult than those that are near the end. To sum how I feel about Mass Effect 2 being an RPG:

If on the highest difficulty, without any upgrades, without any powers, with a level 1 character and not using any cheats or exploits you can beat the final boss - that game is not a RPG.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 19 mai 2010 - 04:54 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Characters leveling up along with the player's character is a common RPG mechanic. I don't particularly like it, but it's common. In ME1, even the loot you found changed based on what level your Shepard was. So basically, the same locker would contain a different item depending on what your level was. And now in ME2 this is suddenly an immersion breaker and makes it less of an RPG than ME1?



This is why it's hard to take a certain portion of this community seriously.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Oh, this again.

Yes, it's an RPG video game, with all its limitations. Although much more RPG than lots of games out there which say are RPGs.

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Whenever I see a thread like this I post this image. But this time I'll say something decent.

I finished Mass Effect 2 five times by now. And I must addmit - with each run I see even more things that bothers me. Those were some really good points you have made Orchomene, especialy the one about "evolution" of the character and surroundings. The missions doesn't get more difficult at all, even more than that - I found some of the early missions more difficult than those that are near the end. To sum how I feel about Mass Effect 2 being an RPG:

If on the highest difficulty, without any upgrades, without any powers, with a level 1 character and not using any cheats or exploits you can beat the final boss - that game is not a RPG.

Yes, because levels, items and evolution have so much to do with roleplaying.

[KitsuneRommel]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Yes, because levels, items and evolution have so much to do with roleplaying.

I'm playing a role of an accountant!

[iharal5]

Me1 important choices:



- Save Rachni

- Kill the colonists

- Kill Shiala

- Gianna Parsani

- Kill/Save the council

- Save Ash/Kaidan



ME2 important choices:



- Kill Vido Santiago

- Kasumi's Greybox

- Kolyat in prison?

- Kill Samara/Morinth

- Kill/Save/Leave Jacob's Father

- Engourage/advise not Miranda to talk with her sister

- Curing the genophage or not

- Rewriting/destroying the geth

- Save Tali from exile

- Encourage the quarians to go to war or not

- Killing/Saving Aresh

- Killing/Saving Sidonis

- Destroying the Collector Base or not



I hope this ^ can shut some of the people who's allways like "ME2 had so few real choices to make"



and yeah, I do know that choices is not what defines a RPG, but for me, it sure as hell is a part of it. I still think ME2 is a RPG though, just a bit more focused on action. I would like some more dialogue tho.



Kinda don't see how ME1 was any more RPG than ME2. The characters were not developing at all, aside from Liara. The only RPG-ish ME1 had that not ME2 had was the big amount of things you could spend points on... which I just thought was lame.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Yes, because levels, items and evolution have so much to do with roleplaying.

I'm playing a role of an accountant!

Really? Which system? D&D, Gurps, Storyteller?

[TJSolo]

Terror_K wrote...

ME2 is an RPG. It's just a shallow, unsatisfying one.

I agree with this.
ME is a mix of genres but ME2 changes the mix to be more action and less RPG, the remainder of the RPG just feels light and shallow.

[kraze07]

TJSolo wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

ME2 is an RPG. It's just a shallow, unsatisfying one.

I agree with this.
ME is a mix of genres but ME2 changes the mix to be more action and less RPG, the remainder of the RPG just feels light and shallow.

I was just about to say this.

Apparently people not only have different opinions about how *RPG* ME2 is, but there also seems to be a million different definitions of what an RPG is and what immersion means. Let's all just hope Bioware puts more focus on the story and more depth in the gameplay next time around while keeping the combat the same and taking out planet scanning and we'll all be happy.

[DreDk]

ME2 is a just a mess...

It is a mediocre shooter. And it is not an RPG.

The only good thing: the HERITAGE of ME1... But ME2 does everything it can also to destroy it (plot, story, continuity, blah!)

This game has no merits on its own...

[Illusivestofmen]

I think it is but it traded in some of it's RPG elements for third person shooter/action elements. Really all they need to do is add a bit more skills and inventory and a more open world/exploration elements and they would strenghten the games RPG credentials. Still and rpg but not quite as strongly as ME1 was, I enjoyed the changes but I see how others didn't. Think ME3 will find a happy medium that we will all enjoy.

[KitsuneRommel]

Illusivestofmen wrote...

I think it is but it traded in some of it's RPG elements for third person shooter/action elements. Really all they need to do is add a bit more skills and inventory and a more open world/exploration elements and they would strenghten the games RPG credentials.

I don't see how it's any different than trading RPG elements for turn-based or semi real-time combat? Unless people really think those have anything to do with roleplaying. Or trading RPG elements for archaic PnP rules that work  badly in computer games (Yes, Baldur's Gate. I'm looking at you.)

[MarchWaltz]

Play Mass Effect for the combat and story, and slight to moderate RPG elemtns, play dragon age for the SUPER RPG...and a decent story.

[tonnactus]

Ecael wrote...

If buildings with enemies in Mass Effect 1 had more than one entrance or more than one way of approaching it, then it would set itself apart from Mass Effect 2.

Great.Virmire and Noveria offer different parts/way and entrances to reach a place.

[tonnactus]

DarthCaine wrote...

Vena_86 wrote...

Personally my biggest dissappointment with ME2 is not that it is less of a RPG but that it is such a big step back in regards to atmosphear and immersion

Funny, I thought it took a huge step forward in atmosphere and immersion
For one all the hub planets were much better than the ones in ME1 (Afterlife is awesome)

Hubs is a strange word for the small 4 shopping mals we get in the game.Nothing that is even nearly as great as the old citadel.

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

Hubs is a strange word for the small 4 shopping mals we get in the game.Nothing that is even nearly as great as the old citadel.

ME1 had Citadel. ME 2 has Citadel, Omega and Illum.

I can understand wishing that the citadel zone in ME2 would've been larger but that's how Bioware usually does sequels.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Hubs is a strange word for the small 4 shopping mals we get in the game.Nothing that is even nearly as great as the old citadel.

ME1 had Citadel. ME 2 has Citadel, Omega and Illum.

Yes,and the old citadel is as big as all the "hubs" of Mass Effect 2 combined.

[KitsuneRommel]

tonnactus wrote...

KitsuneRommel wrote...

tonnactus wrote...

Hubs is a strange word for the small 4 shopping mals we get in the game.Nothing that is even nearly as great as the old citadel.

ME1 had Citadel. ME 2 has Citadel, Omega and Illum.

Yes,and the old citadel is as big as all the "hubs" of Mass Effect 2 combined.

If you count all the empty corridors.

[tonnactus]

KitsuneRommel wrote...


If you count all the empty corridors.

Why not.Mass Effect 2 only has empty corridors.Wide doesnt exist.