104 réponses à ce sujet

[kraze07]

Most RPG hybrids: Loot = More Money (or creds in this case) = Better gear.



ME2: No loot = Fewer ways to get creds = Less gear to choose from.



I miss the loot.

[xDarkicex]

I do Looting should be in a RPG's random drops make a game exciting and add a good deal of reply value.

[llinsane1ll]

Creid-X wrote...

I remember when the game first came out there were many people complaining about the lack of loot, I myself found it a departure from the original even though I never considered it a major issue, but now that some time has passed I've really grown fond of the new system.
Looking back loot wasn't all that great, most armors and weapons were simple retextures of the same models and now seeing all the custom pieces and new weapons we're getting in the DLC I've come to really appreciate the direction Bioware has taken the franchise in this regards.

What about you guys? do you still miss loot? agree or disagree with me? speak your minds.

I think it was a lazy move on their part. Instead of completely taking out the entire loot system, why not remake it to be better? Less armor, less weapons, less upgrades, but still have it so it gives you some sort of exploring for it.

In a way, I understand why they did it, but sometimes I feel they did it, so we forget about the old loot system and so they can use the armor as a way to gain income from DLC.

[ObserverStatus]

IMO fallout 3 has the best loot system I've tried.

[xDarkicex]

Personally I loved Diablo IIs loot system Some set drops but mostly all random and they had like MILLIONS of weapons

[AlanC9]

llinsane1ll wrote...
Instead of completely taking out the entire loot system, why not remake it to be better?

Why have loot? Why should an RPG character be constantly picking up stuff from dead enemies to buy better stuff for himself?

"Because CRPGs have always done this" is not an answer -- I'm looking  for an actual reason.

[finnithe]

Personally, I don't see why there needs to be more variety in the weapons. How many Assault Rifles do you actually need? Sure you had a bunch of them in ME1, but every one of them was exactly the same except for damage, shots before overheat and accuracy. How many different shotguns can you possibly have? We have the one medium-range one, the "pump-action" Krogun, the all-rounder, and the Eviscerator, which is another all-rounder. Would another burst-fire Assault Rifle provide any benefits to the player? I will say that it creates the impression that there are other guns out there, but it creates a lot of work for the developer for very little benefit. I wonder if there are other ways they could impress upon the player that there are other guns, either through advertisements on hub planets or by seeing enemies use weapons you can't pick up.



The armor variety could be increased though, but still, there are only so many items you can make. I'd like to be able to receive armor upgrades or new sets of armor as rewards for finishing a quest or particularly tough fight.



I see Bioware's decision to remove loot as reasonable, given that there doesn't really need to be much variety in a game.

[finnithe]

Personally, I don't see why there needs to be more variety in the weapons. How many Assault Rifles do you actually need? Sure you had a bunch of them in ME1, but every one of them was exactly the same except for damage, shots before overheat and accuracy. How many different shotguns can you possibly have? We have the one medium-range one, the "pump-action" Krogun, the all-rounder, and the Eviscerator, which is another all-rounder. Would another burst-fire Assault Rifle provide any benefits to the player? I will say that it creates the impression that there are other guns out there, but it creates a lot of work for the developer for very little benefit. I wonder if there are other ways they could impress upon the player that there are other guns, either through advertisements on hub planets or by seeing enemies use weapons you can't pick up.



The armor variety could be increased though, but still, there are only so many items you can make. I'd like to be able to receive armor upgrades or new sets of armor as rewards for finishing a quest or particularly tough fight.



I see Bioware's decision to remove loot as reasonable, given that there doesn't really need to be much variety in a game.

[Lumikki]

Looting it self is fine. I like to find salvages what is possible new kind of technology or upgrade or modification. How ever I hate long inventory lists with full of junk items.

[Terror_K]

I don't really miss the loot so much as I feel the system that replaced it is overly simplified, linear and shallow. As bad as the original system was, at least loot adds some randomness to the mix; something that ME2 is completely devoid of. And the lack of customisation and items overall doesn't really help ME2 either.

[Bogsnot1]

TheSeventhJedi wrote...

Do I miss the looting that ME1 had? No. Do I wish there was a better/cooler loot system in place? Yes. I'd like to get a tangible reward once in a while, and open crates with the hope of something cooler than credits. You could even work it into the research system - I could find the schematics for new weapons or armor or something.

^This works.
Instead of having the GPR only available on harcore or insanity, they could have had the code for the weapon scatter through haelstrom, tali's and legion's loyalty mission, and the geth weather mission. effectiveness of the build could be determined by tali and legions ability to work together, again depending on how you settle their dispute.
Also, finding/assembling the collector armour and rifle would have been more satisfying than having TIM just hand them over.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

slimgrin wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Sorry, I think I don't understand your second point. Forget ME1? Compare to other games? Well, it's hard to compare ME to other games. You can compare its combat to another shooters but anything else you can't. You can compare the RPGs parts to other RPGs, although ME2 is a lot different to other RPGs. Mass Effect 1 and 2 are both very unique games. However, both ME games are on my top list and only lose to some other big franchises.

My second point is this: If the combat in ME1 was subpar, the devs asked 'what game can we look to for an example?'

They chose Gears of war, and as a result got better combat. Why not do the same for inventory, looting, exploration, etc..?

Now if they don't want to include such things, fine. If they do, I sure as hell would not recommend ME1 for inspiration. They tried the above elements in that game, and largely failed.

Ah, I see now. Well, I always liked Diablo inventory and it worked for Resident Evil 4. But I like ME2's system. No worries in keeping it that way.

[JKoopman]

I love how people seem incapable of separating ME1's inventory system from a working inventory system. To them, it's either the way it was in ME1 or it's nothing at all.

ME1's inventory management was a godawful nightmare, but because ME1 had a bad inventory does not mean that having an inventory is a bad thing, nor that loot automatically makes things complicated. Many games have had inventories and loot and been better for it.

As I and many others have been saying since the beginning, I would've preferred that BioWare fix the broken inventory (which wouldn't even have been all that difficult) rather than strip it from ME2 altogether.

Modifié par JKoopman, 20 mai 2010 - 04:26 .

[Anwarddyn]

I am fine with the way it is in ME2, not thrilled with it, but not bothered by it.



I am one of those people who thinks it is utterly ridiculous to have my character supposedly carrying 150 sets of armor/weapons in my pockets without even a bulge, so between the two games I would take ME2's.

[AlanC9]

Drakron wrote...
In ME1 you were NEVER penalized in any way from missing loot as it was random and scaled to level.

Huh?  I guess you actually mean something like "you weren't penalized for missing any particular piece of loot." If you don't get a lot of the loot drops you'll never get any good equipment. I haven't tried playing ME1 with just the weapons you start with, but I don't think it wolud work too well.

[KitsuneRommel]

xDarkicex wrote...

Personally I loved Diablo IIs loot system Some set drops but mostly all random and they had like MILLIONS of weapons

It works well for games like Diablo and Borderlands. You are basically grinding in them for those rare drops.

ME1's inventory management was a godawful nightmare, but because ME1 had
a bad inventory does not mean that having an inventory is a bad thing,
nor that loot automatically makes things complicated. Many games have
had inventories and loot and been better for it.

It was not JUST the inventory management. 90% of the gear was utter garbage and even the rest were only placeholders until you got Spectre gear. Not to mention that the weapons really had no functional differences.

[sonsonthebia07]

Basically, what others have been saying. Inventories work well in a lot of games when there are a ton of options. ME1s inventory was a nightmare. Omni-gel can rot in hell.



I much prefer the absence of an inventory to that in ME2. I like it the way it is, but I would like to see more armor and weapon options still.

[khevan]

I've never been a fan of "looting" per se. It just never seemed realistic that someone would leave a high powered weapon/omni-tool/whatever in some random box. ME1, in that regard, actually was a bit better, with the locked boxes and wall safes, but there were simply too many. I mean, seriously, how often do you walk into a building and see weapon lockers everywhere?



I like the streamlined version that ME2 uses, but I do have a complaint about how streamlined it is. I want more options, with the ability to find a weapons cache somewhere that'd let me find a better weapon. Basically, I want the ME2 system, where you'd find these other weapons, like the Vindicator on Garrus' recruitment mission, etc, but more of it. I also want weapon mods, to help in the customization side of things.



But loot itself? No, don't miss it, really.

[AlanC9]

JKoopman wrote...

ME1's inventory management was a godawful nightmare, but because ME1 had a bad inventory does not mean that having an inventory is a bad thing, nor that loot automatically makes things complicated. Many games have had inventories and loot and been better for it.

What's better about it? 

[LostInSanity]

I think ME is better without loot, and not just because of ME1 crappy inventory system. I like the way they did it in ME2 where you only get a hand full of weapons and they are all different, allowing you to pick a gun that works for your play style.

ME1 had a bunch of guns that were basically all the same save for a pallat swap, and some stat tweeks.



I will admit that ME2 could use a few more guns, maybe 4 or 5 total per group?

And I saw somebody mention customizing your weapons, and I totally agree with this!

[Daiyus]

I don't miss looting ala ME1, but I do miss being able to pick up, buy, sell, modify, and customise stuff. ME2 took a great step forward with Armour Customisation, however, I would like to see Light/Medium/Heavy return with pros and cons for each (plus the class restrictions). I think that the amount of choice was far too limited.



Weapons need mods and variation. I see people say "how many different AR's can you have?", the answer being "loads". Look at modern AR's like the M4 and AK47. Both have the same firing modes, and the same amount of rounds per mag. But they're completely different, fire rate, damage per shot, recoil, and natural accuracy provide each it's own characteristic. Why can't we get that in ME? And modular enhancements in the vain of ME1 would be nice. Use the research to make each modification module better, but keep the ability manually alter a weapon to your particular preferences.



As for loot, well, the way I'd work it is that you can pick up guns, mods, armour pieces, etc. If you already own that item it is immediately sold for credits, if not it gets put into your armoury (like the one we've already got). You can go to stores and buy/sell stuff. If there's a particular piece of equipment you never want you can tell the system that, and it'll sell it rather than putting it in your armoury, of course you can rescind that order easily too.



Sorry for the crazy haphazard structure of that, my mind was just running away abit, I hope you get the idea.

[JKoopman]

AlanC9 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

ME1's inventory management was a godawful nightmare, but because ME1 had a bad inventory does not mean that having an inventory is a bad thing, nor that loot automatically makes things complicated. Many games have had inventories and loot and been better for it.

What's better about it? 

A game with a good loot system is better than one without it because loot both satisifies the human urge to hunt and collect and plays on the same fundamental impulses that drive people to gamble. Loot also leads to player and weapon customization, which is something else ME2 is sorely lacking (and no, a linear upgrade path is not considered "customization").

[jonnyblueballs]

After playing through Baldur's Gate 1, 2, ToB; KoToR, a few non Bioware games like Fallout 1, 2, 3, System Shock 1, 2, and other games with inventary and looting, i can say i've had anough of that inventory crap.

bobobo878 wrote...

IMO fallout 3 has the best loot system
I've tried.

The way i remember it, Fallout 3's loot system was the same as any other RPG game's.

Modifié par jonnyblueballs, 20 mai 2010 - 06:53 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

llinsane1ll wrote...
Instead of completely taking out the entire loot system, why not remake it to be better?

Why have loot? Why should an RPG character be constantly picking up stuff from dead enemies to buy better stuff for himself?

"Because CRPGs have always done this" is not an answer -- I'm looking  for an actual reason.

Because including resource management improves the quality of strategic gameplay.

[matt coll]

don't miss the huge, pointless inventory, though what i would like to see next time, is looting rare/awesome guns from bosses in sidequests

kinda like; kill Bloodpack boss-get the krogan shotty as your reward, if you can't use it, then grunt can.

they even have a good lore excuse what with fmr