102 réponses à ce sujet

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

 For all the issue that many may have with ME2, I'm surprised that I don't see many topics discussing the omission of crouch. For me, of all my issues with ME2 (most that are minor) omitting crouch was my biggest pet peeve. It hurt combat for me in the sense that every time that I wanted to move from cover to cover (if I'm advancing or retreating) I would have to take enemy fire to do so. It is pretty odd (to say the least) for someone who is under fire to stand straight up when advancing to a different vantage point or retreating even if you have shields.

To add insult to injury the Left analog thumb-stick press was switched to become the radar toggle which is pointless because the Right analog stick does that already. I never really understood the point of this type of redundancy. There are plenty of other tasks that could be done instead of having two buttons that perform the same task. Besides, was there really a need to have the radar toggle be assigned to two buttons/sticks? It's what annoyed me about GTA 4 with three buttons being assigned for one task. (in that case the hand brake)

Now I would hoping for too much if they corrected this "error" with a patch. Hopefully Bioware will see how problematic it was to omit crouch and bring it back in ME3. Prone would be another wish, but I'll save it for another thread. 

 

[masterthehero]

Agreed, I don't think they're going to add in the crouch for ME 2, but yes it is sorely missed. I'm playing ME 1 once again and never realized just how useful the crouch was when moving from cover to cover. Hopefully they bring it back for ME3

[Ecael]

It's not an error. PC modders have been able to enable the crouch button.

It was removed during ME2 beta because people were abusing it by standing a foot away from actual cover, crouching, and firing over the shield they just made for themselves.

You can still do it in Mass Effect 2 in certain areas where there are T or L shaped cover blocks.

[Atmosfear3]

For what purpose would you need to crouch other than the above mentioned abusive tactic Ecael mentioned?



Sorry immersion doesn't count here.

[vhatever]

Miranda makes me miss crouching the most.

[Ashton808]

There is crouching? I need to understand all of this. Anyways the only way I crouched was when I taking cover.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Ecael wrote...

It's not an error. PC modders have been able to enable the crouch button.

It was removed during ME2 beta because people were abusing it by standing a foot away from actual cover, crouching, and firing over the shield they just made for themselves.

You can still do it in Mass Effect 2 in certain areas where there are T or L shaped cover blocks.

I know it's not an error which is why I put a parentheses around error. I see it as a mistake. As far as the reason you reference, it's not really a good enough reason to bar crouching all together. It's similar to the reason why DICE eliminated prone from Bad Company. There should have been a more sensible solution.

[Daiye]

I'm a little confused about what part of ducking behind cover was abusive. Did it make you invisible to the AI if you weren't glued to it or something?

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

For what purpose would you need to crouch other than the above mentioned abusive tactic Ecael mentioned?

Sorry immersion doesn't count here.

So I don't have to get shot to hell every time I move from cover to cover. It's ludicrous for any one in combat to stand up straight when trying to advance/retreat on an enemy while they are shooting at you. Did you even read my post? As far as abuse goes, I'm sure that there could have been a way to solve that issue without removing crouch. Having a bigger combat environment  or having enemies who will lay prone when their cover is not enough to protect them.

[uberdowzen]

Replayed ME1 recently and used crouch exactly 3 times. Forgot you even could crouch in the original about 30 minutes into ME2.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Daiye wrote...

I'm a little confused about what part of ducking behind cover was abusive. Did it make you invisible to the AI if you weren't glued to it or something?

I'm not entirely sure what they are talking about either, but I think they mean that when you are crouched it give you some advantage over enemy AI in cover. Seeing as how it is possible to kill enemies who are taking cover with well aimed shots. 

If that's the problem the I think the solution should have been bringing in prone. (for NPCs and playable characters)

[vhatever]

www.youtube.com/watch

You can see in the last couple minutes o my horizon speedrun why it was removed.

Modifié par vhatever, 20 mai 2010 - 01:00 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

I must have used it 1 time during Mass Effect 1. But you aren't the only one who misses the crouching. It was a useless function for me, just like the cover.

[Spartas Husky]

I miss it. is very tactical. is a tradeoff. you move with less speed, but increases accuracy considerably.

[masterthehero]

I just watched your horizon run and there was no usage of crouch as an exploit. Makes me think you're just trying to advertise your speed run, which doesn't make sense. Mass Effect doesn't really strike me as the type of game to speed run when there's so many section of dialogue to go through.

[vhatever]

masterthehero wrote...

I just watched your horizon run and there was no usage of crouch as an exploit. Makes me think you're just trying to advertise your speed run, which doesn't make sense. Mass Effect doesn't really strike me as the type of game to speed run when there's so many section of dialogue to go through.

Nope. I didn't use crouch. But horizon is one of the few places where you do a lot of fighting with barriers/boxes that simulate the same positioning as if you were crouching. I used it about half a dozen times n the video to fire on enemies with 100% impunity.

[CatatonicMan]

Crouch is something they should never have removed, but their AI is so god awful that it can't function without the cover mechanic in full force.

[Ecael]

CatatonicMan wrote...

Crouch is something they should never have removed, but their AI is so god awful that it can't function without the cover mechanic in full force.

Pretty much.

Cover wasn't much use in Mass Effect 1 after equipping Ashley and Wrex with good armor and sending them first into every battle spamming their Immunity or Barrier (or in Wrex's case, both).

[Kaiser Shepard]

It's not entirely removed: you just can't use it. A little tweaking makes you able to use it again in the pc version, and I once accidentally managed to 'activate' it in my 360 game.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

masterthehero wrote...

I just watched your horizon run and there was no usage of crouch as an exploit. Makes me think you're just trying to advertise your speed run, which doesn't make sense. Mass Effect doesn't really strike me as the type of game to speed run when there's so many section of dialogue to go through.

Probably, but I don't think exploiting crouch was the point of the explanation. It was more along the lines of not exploiting the cover system and still being capable of killing enemies with impunity. What the player was doing was hiding behind cover and wasn't being exposed to enemy fire while firing his/her weapon. That would be the case if you used the cover system.

But my point still stands: Why penalize this tactic by removing crouch? Improving enemy tactic and cover would have worked better.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

It's not entirely removed: you just can't use it. A little tweaking makes you able to use it again in the pc version, and I once accidentally managed to 'activate' it in my 360 game.

Me being a 360 guy would like to know how that happened.

[MassEffect762]

I miss it. The smaller a target you make yourself the better.

Modifié par MassEffect762, 20 mai 2010 - 01:47 .

[CatatonicMan]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...
But my point still stands: Why penalize this tactic by removing crouch? Improving enemy tactic and cover would have worked better.

Yes, it would have - but programming exceptional enemy tactics and AI is hard.

Much harder, in fact, than simply removing a small bit of functionality from the game. Bendable knees are for chumps, anyway.

I'm sure the binary covered/uncovered AI behavior switch was a heck of a lot easier to implement than something with more than two states to consider.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 20 mai 2010 - 01:47 .

[Ecael]

CatatonicMan wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...
But my point still stands: Why penalize this tactic by removing crouch? Improving enemy tactic and cover would have worked better.

Yes, it would have - but programming exceptional enemy tactics and AI is hard.

Much harder, in fact, than simply removing a small bit of functionality from the game. Bendable knees are for chumps, anyway.

I'm sure the binary covered/uncovered AI behavior switch was a heck of a lot easier to implement than something with more than two states to consider.

Agreed again.

If BioWare left crouching in the game, then people would abuse it like crazy behind cover, brag about it on the forums, and then whine the moment a patch fixes it.