102 réponses à ce sujet

[Shotokanguy]

Arcing biotics honestly doesn't work as well as I bet they hoped. Half the time I'd rather just do it ME1 style where I could precisely aim a power without it locking on to an enemy and hit them with something that had a radius even though they were behind cover. It was a bit easier, but they did a good job balancing things in ME2. I'm sure with any changes they make, they could balance the game again. And I hope they do keep making changes. Cover is REALLY wonky in ME2.



Just today I was on the Collector ship. Things are fairly easy as a Soldier. Still, first I died because I was trying to target a Collector across from me that was about to have a clear shot once it got past my cover. For some reason, I couldn't target it and Thane's Warp hit the wall to the side of the Collector. Nothing I could do then. Very next reload, I was firing the Revenant behind cover. The recoil kept making the camera go up but not Shepard. Suddenly, I was unable to move. The camera was floating above Shepard a bit higher but he was still in the cover animation, but apparently I wasn't in cover. Scion got me, because even though I was behind several walls I wasn't "in cover".



Silly.

[hawat333]

Nope.



I haven't missed it, until I played ME2 right after ME1. Then, I tried to couch every time for the few hours.

[vhatever]

slimgrin wrote...

vhatever wrote...

www.youtube.com/watch

You can see in the last couple minutes o my horizon speedrun why it was removed.

You sir, are a madman. 

Ya, I get that a lot.

[inversevideo]

I do miss being able to crouch.

I found it very natural, to crouch down, when being fired upon.
If you are sharing cover, with a squad mate, they can take 'high' and you can take low.
You move naturally into cover, and crouch or stand behind it, no 'magnetic' pull, when you walk by cover.
Mioving from cover to cover, if said cover is close together, is better done crouched.
Would you really stand up, in a bulletstorm and run about? OR would you naturally make yourself a much smaller target?

The new cover system also seems to get you killed more often on Insanity level.
I can't count the number of times that Shep is running towards cover, runs too close to a column or box, and is drawn to it, almost magnetically, such that Shep is now hunkered down, on ther wrong side of the column or box, taking a steady diet of bullets.

Modifié par inversevideo, 21 mai 2010 - 05:29 .

[SupidSeep]

inversevideo wrote...

The new cover system also seems to get you killed more often on Insanity level.
I can't count the number of times that Shep is running towards cover, runs too close to a column or box, and is drawn to it, almost magnetically, such that Shep is now hunkered down, on ther wrong side of the column or box, taking a steady diet of bullets.

Don't remind me, I lost count of the number of times I cursed Bioware over this issue on my first game (Insanity Vanguard).

[Shotokanguy]

inversevideo wrote...

The new cover system also seems to get you killed more often on Insanity level.
I can't count the number of times that Shep is running towards cover, runs too close to a column or box, and is drawn to it, almost magnetically, such that Shep is now hunkered down, on ther wrong side of the column or box, taking a steady diet of bullets.

A good example of why having the cover button separate from one that controls movement is needed. If I'm storming to a piece of cover and can click the stick to crouch into it, I can do it when I want, and Shepard won't be trying to do it on his own, interrupting my movement.

[ThisIsMadness91]

LPPrince wrote...

CatatonicMan wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

The reason crouching is not in ME2 is BECAUSE of difficulty. People were finding ways to kill everything without ever getting hit through an exploit. That's not how the game's meant to be played.

It would be more accurate to say that crouching was removed because Bioware didn't have the time and/or desire to put forth the effort to make the AI capable of dealing with a player behind cover but not glued to it.

That sounds harsher than that has to be.

I don't see why it's harsh. Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me.

I mainly miss crouch because shields suck hard in ME2. Running from cover to cover is a heavy risk with no priiiiize. Once you reach the cover, chances are you need to sit down sucking your thumb for a bit before you can get back into the fight. And automatically entering cover can get you killed if you're trying to retreat but accidentally go too close to cover.

[Tempest]

Removing crouching over improving enemy AI is a cheap and lazy way to fix a situation. It is no different from playing ActionRPG's where the jump button is removed because developers don't want you to go to places that they didn't want you to be. Because the jump button was removed a pebble or a slight latitude difference prevents you from going forward, so you are forced to pointlessly go around a hill you could have easily just jumped onto and walked over (Fable 2 REALLY guilty of this). Or you get stuck because you landed on a rock or twig incorrectly.

[Thompson family]

Re: OP. No, your not. I'd cite specific examples if this was in a forum that allowed spoilers.

[LPPrince]

Tempest wrote...

Removing crouching over improving enemy AI is a cheap and lazy way to fix a situation. It is no different from playing ActionRPG's where the jump button is removed because developers don't want you to go to places that they didn't want you to be. Because the jump button was removed a pebble or a slight latitude difference prevents you from going forward, so you are forced to pointlessly go around a hill you could have easily just jumped onto and walked over (Fable 2 REALLY guilty of this). Or you get stuck because you landed on a rock or twig incorrectly.

Cheap and lazy? Do you develop games by any chance? Because unless you know first hand how hard it is to develop games, you can't use that as a description.

And I played Fable 2. You could vault over fences and the like to get to the other side. There really is no point for a jump button in that game either since it wouldn't affect gameplay whatsoever besides taking away a button that could've been used better. On top of that, are you really complaining about having to go around something rather than over? A whole 2 seconds of a difference constitutes a developer being guilty for the charge of being cheap and lazy?

Come on now.

[vhatever]

Are you lazy because you buy your clothes from a department store instead of sewing them yourself?

[Zulu_DFA]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

 For all the issue that many may have with ME2, I'm surprised that I don't see many topics discussing the omission of crouch. For me, of all my issues with ME2 (most that are minor) omitting crouch was my biggest pet peeve. It hurt combat for me in the sense that every time that I wanted to move from cover to cover (if I'm advancing or retreating) I would have to take enemy fire to do so. It is pretty odd (to say the least) for someone who is under fire to stand straight up when advancing to a different vantage point or retreating even if you have shields.

To add insult to injury the Left analog thumb-stick press was switched to become the radar toggle which is pointless because the Right analog stick does that already. I never really understood the point of this type of redundancy. There are plenty of other tasks that could be done instead of having two buttons that perform the same task. Besides, was there really a need to have the radar toggle be assigned to two buttons/sticks? It's what annoyed me about GTA 4 with three buttons being assigned for one task. (in that case the hand brake)

Now I would hoping for too much if they corrected this "error" with a patch. Hopefully Bioware will see how problematic it was to omit crouch and bring it back in ME3. Prone would be another wish, but I'll save it for another thread. 

 

I second this!

Then I third this!!!

[iHarpy]

God how I miss it. I figured it was removed due to the game's new interface, not player exploit.

Allowed for increased accuracy and faster movement (without being glued to the wall).

Not something Bioware will patch, but hopefully they'll bring it back for ME3. Please.

[CatatonicMan]

iHarpy wrote...

God how I miss it. I figured it was removed due to the game's new interface, not player exploit.
Allowed for increased accuracy and faster movement (without being glued to the wall).
Not something Bioware will patch, but hopefully they'll bring it back for ME3. Please.

They'll bring it back IFF they can manage to make the AI smarter than a than a sack of potatoes - a particularly dumb sack of potatoes, at that.

Modifié par CatatonicMan, 22 mai 2010 - 04:34 .

[KitsuneRommel]

CatatonicMan wrote...

They'll bring it back IFF they can manage to make the AI smarter than a than a sack of potatoes - a particularly dumb sack of potatoes, at that.

They should hire some people from Valve.

[vhatever]

Oh, please. I've yet to see a game wikth good AI outside of chessmaster.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

LPPrince wrote...

1. Its not shooting down your argument specifically. Its shooting down the argument of having the cover system in the first place.

2a. There were many open areas for long range combat in ME2. Not as long range as ME1, but still long range.

2b. Yeah, cover was pretty obvious. Wish they could disguise it better.

2c. There was plenty of destructible cover. Not everywhere, but in many places, there was.

Fair enough. However you are implying that I want it back in ME2. Bottom line, I was disappointed that there wasn't crouch in ME2. At times it bugged me more moving from cover to cover. It just felt silly to see someone stand staight up coming out of cover. I got over that and enjoyed everything else about the game. I just hope to see it return in ME3 along with prone.

I wouldn't call the longer distant engagments long range combat in ME2. They were more intermediate range. Whenever I used the sniper rifles i felt that I was using it as a standard rifle or a Marksman Rifle. 
Destructible cover on the other hand would work best if it was similar to Bad Company but less over the top.

[LPPrince]

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

1. Its not shooting down your argument specifically. Its shooting down the argument of having the cover system in the first place.

2a. There were many open areas for long range combat in ME2. Not as long range as ME1, but still long range.

2b. Yeah, cover was pretty obvious. Wish they could disguise it better.

2c. There was plenty of destructible cover. Not everywhere, but in many places, there was.

Fair enough. However you are implying that I want it back in ME2. Bottom line, I was disappointed that there wasn't crouch in ME2. At times it bugged me more moving from cover to cover. It just felt silly to see someone stand staight up coming out of cover. I got over that and enjoyed everything else about the game. I just hope to see it return in ME3 along with prone.

I wouldn't call the longer distant engagments long range combat in ME2. They were more intermediate range. Whenever I used the sniper rifles i felt that I was using it as a standard rifle or a Marksman Rifle. 
Destructible cover on the other hand would work best if it was similar to Bad Company but less over the top.

Destructible cover got on my nerves in this game.

I kept destroying them in my first playthrough thinking there would be things in them.

[Tirigon]

vhatever wrote...


www.youtube.com/watch

You can see in the last couple minutes o my horizon speedrun why it was removed.

Whoa how many damage upgrades did you already get? When I use the Locust it has not even half as much damage on insanity...



On topic: I don´t really miss crouching. Sure, in some situations it would be helpful, but the same goes for bunnyhopping and we surely don´t want that, right?

[Tirigon]

Just read the stuff about why crouching was removed, and I have to say.... I don´t see the point. I mean, why should something be removed because it can be abused? If someone wants to exploit it, let them.......

[vhatever]

Tirigon wrote...

vhatever wrote...


www.youtube.com/watch

You can see in the last couple minutes o my horizon speedrun why it was removed.

Whoa how many damage upgrades did you already get? When I use the Locust it has not even half as much damage on insanity...



On topic: I don´t really miss crouching. Sure, in some situations it would be helpful, but the same goes for bunnyhopping and we surely don´t want that, right?

Well, I'm using warp ammo, which gets a bonus against barriers/health. I have 2 SMG upgrades in that video, which is enough for the 50% damage bonus.

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

Atmosfear3 wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

Oh and I have one question for you: where in my post(s) have I indicated that the difficulty was too much? I'm just curious.  

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

So I don't have to get shot to hell every time I move from cover to cover. It's ludicrous for any one in combat to stand up straight when trying to advance/retreat on an enemy while they are shooting at you. 

Thats the indication right there. In essence you are worried about getting shot when moving from cover to cover but thats really a trivial thing considering shields regenerate as does health (plus you can expedite the process with medi-gel when upgraded).

If you think that one issue made that game frustratingly difficult for me then I think you are going out of your overstating my issue to a ludicrous degree. I have no issue with being taking enemy fire. My issue is that it is incredibly silly and suicidal for an infantryman to stand up straight  and make him/herself a bullet sponge when you are under fire. I'm not worried about being shot, I'm more worried about practicality. In any game when you are crouching or even laying prone you are at risk to taking fire. The risk is just lower because you are a smaller target. It's all about practicality. Difficulty is a non-issue. 

While I understand the practically in your reasoning, it is completely unneeded considering you're crouched when you are in low cover. Crouching while moving would simply make you move slower and you'll be shot for even longer periods of time. On the higher difficulties, where all enemies are crack-marksmen, you would probably end up taking more damage as opposed to sprinting from cover to cover.

Not true. If you want to get from place to place while under fire (cover to cover or retreating) you do a ducking run since prone is too slow in some cases. GTA 4 and MGS 4 both had a ducking run that worked very well. You were still at risk of taking enemy fire but when used smartly it payed off.  

What you're probably looking for is a move-from-cover type feature like they have in Gears of War. If you haven't played either of the series basically when you are at the edge of a piece of cover, by holding towards the direction of the next piece of cover and press A (or I suppose space bar on PC?) you would quickly transition to it tactically. Unfortunately, Bioware did not have that feature.

Nah, They have a similar system for Splinter Cell conviction. It's okay, but it's to automated for my taste. I personally would like to manage my movements. My personal favorite combat systems are MGS 4 and GTA 4. (I do favor MGS 4 because they had prone which is something I would love to see more in combat games)

[TheShogunOfHarlem]

LPPrince wrote...

TheShogunOfHarlem wrote...

LPPrince wrote...

1. Its not shooting down your argument specifically. Its shooting down the argument of having the cover system in the first place.

2a. There were many open areas for long range combat in ME2. Not as long range as ME1, but still long range.

2b. Yeah, cover was pretty obvious. Wish they could disguise it better.

2c. There was plenty of destructible cover. Not everywhere, but in many places, there was.

Fair enough. However you are implying that I want it back in ME2. Bottom line, I was disappointed that there wasn't crouch in ME2. At times it bugged me more moving from cover to cover. It just felt silly to see someone stand staight up coming out of cover. I got over that and enjoyed everything else about the game. I just hope to see it return in ME3 along with prone.

I wouldn't call the longer distant engagments long range combat in ME2. They were more intermediate range. Whenever I used the sniper rifles i felt that I was using it as a standard rifle or a Marksman Rifle. 
Destructible cover on the other hand would work best if it was similar to Bad Company but less over the top.

Destructible cover got on my nerves in this game.

I kept destroying them in my first playthrough thinking there would be things in them.

Bad Company 1 and 2 in general were hit and miss with me. The best things about it were the sandbox gameplay (gutted in 2) and destructible environments. I loved using mortar strikes to completely carpet bomb an area before attacking. I liked even more knowing that any cover that I took wasn't completely safe and that some someone could level it with an RPG or a tank round.

[Veex]

I miss crouching almost as much as I miss jumping.