12 réponses à ce sujet

[Cody]

I am not a fan of taking a bonus ability for my Vanguard. I think he is fine without one tbh.

That being said:

http://masseffect.ma...e7-6e284834eb19

What do you all think? It seems like a pretty good build to me(though I may take a point out of Spectre training and tactical armor and put them into warp)

[jakenou]

I was a Vanguard Shocktrooper for my very first play through, so I'm a little sentimental about it. Didn't have a bonus talent option then, but I probably would have picked sniper rifle over assault rifle because it adds some diversity in range for a Vanguard... but that's my preference since I love sniper rifles and I know a lot more people prefer ARs. I was also a fan of the shotgun... when I think of Vanguards, I think of shotguns!..., so I would have put more points into that over maxing out pistol, and shotgun use also makes assault rifles a bit more redundant than sniper rifles. You are a Shocktrooper after all, so a variety of weapon skill is what you're about, and you might consider placing more importance on adding points to weapon use rather than so much into biotics.

I also would place more importance on Warp and Barrier - or in your case, I would have put more into Warp over Lift. If you chose Nemesis instead of Shocktrooper then I would say go crazy with Lift and Throw (as well as other biotics, since Nemesis is the biotic side of Vanguard). Looks like you don't care about story options and progression with no Charm or Intimidate, but if you wanted to trim back on assault training (and even some off of tactical armor) you could put points in morality if you wanted to. I didn't find it all too necessary to put assault training much past the base needed to unlock tactical armor, but being a Shocktrooper it makes sense to invest a fair amount in both of those.

No need to max out Shocktrooper either, unless you really want Adrenaline Burst to be that much quicker. Barrier Specialist unlocks about half way, and I think that's a better compliment to a Vanguard with solid tactical Armor stats.

Modifié par jkthunder, 21 mai 2010 - 03:16 .

[Cody]

I plan on going through the game more than once. So my Charm and Intimidate will fill it self up with Spectre recreuitment and morality points. Also It has been proven that the pistol does the most damage in the game iwht Mastermarksmen. So putting points into Shotgun would be a waste of points.

Warp is good that's why I have it on advanced. But I also bring Wrex with me so he can back me up with his. Also a maxed out lift and throw brinds about more crowd control. With lift I can lift up a Geth Colossus. With Throw and can push down an armature(and a colossus I think) with both I can use them quite nicely against enemies. Especially with a combo of both.

Sniper rifle is a good choice if you plan on putting points into it. If not then it's useless and the aim is comepletely off.

Also having both Barrier and Tactical armor maxed out macks the Vanguard less squishy and more a front line fighter. Both are very useful. Though I don't think taking one point out of it just to add 2 more seconds to warp will make that much of a difference :/. Barrier is like the "I win" button. Can be a life saver in most cases(useless againt poison and melee hitters, but thats what throw and lift are for).

That is why I made my build the way it is. Though you had good ideas too. Just saying that my build has covered my guys weaknesses and made him all out stronger.

[jakenou]

Heh, well your build just looked more like a Nemesis build rather than a Shocktrooper, but I see your point. I would have asked why you didn't go with Nemesis instead if I didn't already think it was the lesser alternative for both Adepts and Vanguards, although Nemesis would give you even more of a boost for your nefarious Lift/Throw plots against Geth Armatures, heheheh

I just have a hard time imagining a Vanguard without a pretty high handle on the shotgun, and even though Marksmanship is pretty awesome, I never felt the need to max it to mastery. I personally wouldn't max out as many skills as you, opting to at least gain the first bonuses for other weapons, even in an Insanity run. I guess I just like to see the power wheel fill up . I would have maxed two or so, depending on preference. I def agree about Barrier and Tactical Armor, but again, maybe not a max for me, depending on what other things I want points in. And again, sniper rifle is just what I like, even all wobbly, but I'd certainly put points to it. To each their own.

And you'll get a few morality points, but not enough for some plots that need higher levels, depending on if you are going Paragon or Renegade.

Modifié par jkthunder, 21 mai 2010 - 03:46 .

[hardcoregmr]

The Vanguard Skill is no fun unless you play as a shock trooper, I am playing through now as a Vanguard Shock Trooper and nothing feels more right than running into a room shotgunning anything that moves then throwing them half way across the room, even better throwing them up just to shot gun them again. Awesome, Just plain awesome

[Cody]

jkthunder wrote...


And you'll get a few morality points, but not enough for some plots that need higher levels, depending on if you are going Paragon or Renegade.

You can get 4 points into Charm and Intimidate my just gaining paragon,renegade and spectre points. Which means I will be going 4 playthroughs with this character. After 3 Play throughs Both Charm and Intimidate will be maxed out. The fourth playthrough is just to make sure every thing is completed right before I ust this file for Mass Effect 2.

Modifié par CodyMelch, 21 mai 2010 - 11:34 .

[Simbacca]

CodyMelch wrote...

http://masseffect.ma...e7-6e284834eb19

That planned build is solid as a first character no bonus talent build.  My only suggestion would be to find the 6 points neeeded to get Master Warp.  Not only does the debuff increase by 15%, but the cooldown is faster too.  You will find this very helpful if you plan on running this Vanguard through the game again on Hardcore and/or Insanity, where most humanoid enemies spam Immunity.  To find the 6 points, either take a) 4 out of Tactical Armor and 2 out of Spectre Training or take 6 out of Spectre Traning.  Tactical Armor yields extreme diminishing returns after 8 points and well, most builds leave Spectre Training at 4 so taking points out of it wouldn't hurt too much either.

The only other possible change is to switch from Shock Trooper to Nemesis.  Most take Shock Trooper because of the increased damage reduction as well as the Barrier and Adrenaline Burst cooldown reductions.  However, being a Pistol Vanguard won't see you in as close a range as a Shotgun Vanguard, the reduced Barrier cooldown is usually needed for Singularity Vanguards that don't have the points to get Barrier higher than Advanced, and I've always found the reduced Adernaline Burst cooldown to be unneeded (by end game with 2 Med Exo X armor mods and a Savant X bio-amp, your biotic cooldowns will already be pretty quick).  Taking Nemesis however will make up for the lack of Singularity when it comes to crowd control, hugely boosting its radius from 6m to 10m, boosting Warp's radius, boosting Warp's and Throw's damage, and boosting the duration of all your biotic abilities. 

Either build would be very solid.  Enjoy your Vanguard.

One more thing; there is a bug with Lift, Warp, and Throw where if you specifically target an enemy with those biotics, it will only affect that one and not other nearby enemies that should be within the radius of effect.  To make sure those abilities hit multiple targets, you have to target the ability on the ground or ceiling between the enemies.

Modifié par Simbacca, 21 mai 2010 - 03:19 .

[jakenou]

CodyMelch wrote...

You can get 4 points into Charm and Intimidate my just gaining paragon,renegade and spectre points. Which means I will be going 4 playthroughs with this character. After 3 Play throughs Both Charm and Intimidate will be maxed out. The fourth playthrough is just to make sure every thing is completed right before I ust this file for Mass Effect 2.

Didn't realize that was your plan. Dang, 4 playthroughs with one character? Now that's stamina! I wish you luck. Can't go wrong with a Vanguard IMO.

[mcsupersport]

Personally I would lose 8 pts of Spectre training and pour that into Shotguns. I know people love warp but I never used it in ME1, much preferred to max others and simply blast people to death with combos of ammo that killed their immunity. Your choice, but Vanguards should be Shotguns, with a backup of pistols, and SR is better bonus that AR since you do have pistols high.



As far as Spectre training goes, it is high cost low reward if you think about it. You gain minimal bonuses to life and powers 2-5% and the bonuses of revival of crew are minimal under most instances. My final run in ME1, I can probably count on one hand the number of times I actually had to revive a squad mate. I much preferred to have the extra damage available from weapons and powers.



IF you want Pistols to be main class, then drop the Spectre and add sniper 4-8, which combined with a good rifle gives excellent long range ability. Also don't fall for the explosive rounds, they do concussive, but no real extra damage and greatly slow shooting, use shredder/Tungsten combo depending on what you are fighting. In the time you can shoot one explosive round with Tungsten and proper upgrades you can shoot a SR 4-5 times at the same target, doing 40% more damage per shot.

[Devos]

CodyMelch wrote...

I am not a fan of taking a bonus ability for my Vanguard. I think he is fine without one tbh.

Vanguards are the class a bonus talent makes the most difference for by a long way. With bonus Singularity Vanguard is up with the bests. Without, I would actually rate a well built barrier engineer above it.

Singularity makes a huge difference. First of all in terms of offence potential, you need to be able to shoot targets to kill them, singularity pulls targets out of cover, nothing in the vanguards regular repertoire does that. Lift doesn't work through cover and often wouldn't even be especially useful if it did. Second there is the early game advantage of being able to start putting points into singularity at level 1. Combined with AB it makes them an incredibly effective mid-game class and pretty good early game.In all honesty though I've come to the conclusion that Vanguards high end potential relative to other classes is massively overate, even with bonus singularity.

I get that some people would rather not use a bonus talent but there is a good reason any even half arsed stab at maximizing the potential of the Vanguard class has bonus singularity. So unless you specifically don't want a bonus talent not taking bonus singularity 12 is a huge mistake

What do you all think? It seems like a pretty good build to me(though I may take a point out of Spectre training and tactical armor and put them into warp)

Spectre Training over 4, Armor over 7 and Barrier over 7 are all significantly less useful than Master Warp. That's also how you find the points for Master Singularity.

[Cody]

Devos wrote...

CodyMelch wrote...

I am not a fan of taking a bonus ability for my Vanguard. I think he is fine without one tbh.

Vanguards are the class a bonus talent makes the most difference for by a long way. With bonus Singularity Vanguard is up with the bests. Without, I would actually rate a well built barrier engineer above it.

Singularity makes a huge difference. First of all in terms of offence potential, you need to be able to shoot targets to kill them, singularity pulls targets out of cover, nothing in the vanguards regular repertoire does that. Lift doesn't work through cover and often wouldn't even be especially useful if it did. Second there is the early game advantage of being able to start putting points into singularity at level 1. Combined with AB it makes them an incredibly effective mid-game class and pretty good early game.In all honesty though I've come to the conclusion that Vanguards high end potential relative to other classes is massively overate, even with bonus singularity.

I get that some people would rather not use a bonus talent but there is a good reason any even half arsed stab at maximizing the potential of the Vanguard class has bonus singularity. So unless you specifically don't want a bonus talent not taking bonus singularity 12 is a huge mistake

What do you all think? It seems like a pretty good build to me(though I may take a point out of Spectre training and tactical armor and put them into warp)

Spectre Training over 4, Armor over 7 and Barrier over 7 are all significantly less useful than Master Warp. That's also how you find the points for Master Singularity.

I have no problem taking enemies out of cover with Lift. It's where you aim it that matters. AS long as it's on master I'm good.

Also, I rather max my tactical armor and spectre training and barrier mainly for defensive reasons, so they aren't so squishy. So far on insanity I've been doing pretty well with this build. Having Wrex with me He can help take care of the master warp problem. Advanced has been good to me as well.

We may have different opinions but from my experience. This build has been doing very well on insanity. So I think I have chose what I am going with here. Thanks anyway Devos, and everyone else as well.

PS: I know you know your stuff Devos, I mean you were always the expert at this stuff on the original forums and probably still are. But this is just the build I want to use. Maybe because it bugs me not having Spectre and Assault training at max...idk why >_>. Maybe I am still a soldier at heart. But I like using a good range of biotics along with combat skills. Thats why I chose this class and this build. 

Modifié par CodyMelch, 23 mai 2010 - 03:07 .

[Devos]

CodyMelch wrote...

I have no problem taking enemies out of cover with Lift. It's where you aim it that matters. AS long as it's on master I'm good.

There are plenty of situations where lift literally can't pull targets out of cover, that's even ignoring the annoying  ingle target glitch. Lift is no substitute for singularity.

Also, I rather max my tactical armor and spectre training and barrier mainly for defensive reasons, so they aren't so squishy.

Spectre I'll cover bellow but neither raising barrier to master from advanced or Tactical armour over 7 is going to make a real difference to survivability. The amount of extra barrier gained is one rocket or sniper hit when you can already shrug off five or six and if you really need shield boost or refresh barrier with AB. The damage reduction, because of how different source of DR stack is practically nothing. Perhaps it could be argued that master shield boost, the slight DR and barrier bump, while individually not much all adds up to a real difference though I would be very sceptical especially bearing in mind where the points saved are going. That is all being sacrificed for Singularity, which can make a significant differnce to survivability. It's large AoE stops entire rooms from shooting.

We may have different opinions but from my experience. This build has been doing very well on insanity. So I think I have chose what I am going with here. Thanks anyway Devos, and everyone else as well.

As long as you have a half way sensible build and a decent amount of level insanity is a cake walk. Build optimization for ME1 is fairly academic exercise. I doubt you will have any problem with insanity but Vanguards do lose a lot of potential by dropping Singularity.

Maybe because it bugs me not having Spectre and Assault training at max...idk why >_>.

You don't have to trade assault training. I used to be cautious about lower ST but the innate bonus is so little that it's more or less fictional and upgrading unity is unnecessary for vanguards. Most of the time a given enemy will take exactly the same number of shots to kill and from 4-12 its at best saving one bullet in 30 odd. Unity above basic is kind of wasted on a character with AB because you can already bypass the long reuse. On a class as point starved as a Vanguard 8 points is a lot to pay for what you get in return.

It might seem like I'm trying to bludgeon you into accepting my build, if you are happy with what you have run with it. It's certainly solid enough that you shouldn't have a problem but there is just no way I can recommend not taking singularity on vanguard for the purpose of build optimization. I feel its kind of important set these points straight as much for the benefit of any one else looking at this thread.

Modifié par Devos, 24 mai 2010 - 11:01 .

[The Spamming Troll]

nemesis is where its at. nemesis bonuses are what i like. power, power, power! if leveled corectly youll have the second best pistol in game after the soldier, youll have the most powerfull biotics in game, and youll have a scarier class name. i dont care much for the health boost or the faster AR recharge. i rarely use AR as it is unless i feel like using two singularities in a row just for the hell of it. i also dont even take medium armor with my vangaurd. you dont really need a whole lot of defense when your offensive capabilites are completely out of control.