206 réponses à ce sujet

[MistySun]

I read somewhere that Bioware have said they're removing camp conversation and future games will be more like the Awakening system.
Don't do it. 
You made DAO a great success.
But you made Awakenings a lost cause. People (most) did not like it.
Stick to what you know best. To make a great game such as DAO.
If future DA goes the same way as Awakenings, you will lose out.

In other words...the end of the line. 

[Onyx Jaguar]

I could go either way :/

EDIT:  I think it would be best if they would include both, Dragon Age: Origins kind of did this (for instance when you take certain charcters in certain situations) but was masked better as it wasn't THE ONLY form of communication.

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 21 mai 2010 - 08:31 .

[Indoctrination]

I really hope this isn't true. I really like the system in DA:O. The Awakening conversation system is awful.

[hexaligned]

I don't remember them saying anything about removing PC initiated dialogue completely. I remember a post saying that they felt DAA's system was less mechanical and came across as more natural, and they wanted to implement more of that feeling. Which I agree with. I doubt you have to worry about your character becoming a passive mute.

Modifié par relhart, 21 mai 2010 - 09:14 .

[Lucy Glitter]

I thought the new dialogue system was innovative. They said it wouldn't be the same, they would upgrade it even more.

[Gecon]

Well ... I'm not too fuzzed. I liked the dialogues with both Morrigan and Leliana. Having to talk with ALL companions to get approval and influence however, that turned the whole matter into WORK.



Into hard work really. Managing a long and winding dialogue justs to get -5 or some such, that isnt fun.



As long as they keep the random conversations and romances, I'm still very very happy about the state of the game.

[Catcher]

MistySun wrote...

I read somewhere that Bioware have said they're removing camp conversation and future games will be more like the Awakening system.
Don't do it. 
You made DAO a great success.
But you made Awakenings a lost cause. People (most) did not like it.
Stick to what you know best. To make a great game such as DAO.
If future DA goes the same way as Awakenings, you will lose out.

In other words...the end of the line. 

     Misty, I'm afraid you've been the victim of a malicious exaggeration. You'll want to read this thread and specifically the (many) comments of David Gaider to see for yourself. I've copied and pasted a few of his quotes below for those who don't want to wade through (the thread is 20+ pages long, though most of David's comments are in the first 8 or so).

My personal thought on that is, instead of having questions that you can ask a follower, having conversations you can initiate with them in camp in the same fashion that you do out in the world. So maybe there's a keg in camp and you see that clicking on it means "have a drink with Oghren" or similar... maybe even new items appear, such as something taken from a quest and you can ask someone about it without needing to have them in your active party per se.

I think some people are getting the wrong impression, that my goal is to strip out your ability to initiate dialogue. That's not the case at all. It's more a matter of when and how.

Another possibility might be spacing out dialogues in-between major plot points. You don't get to ask said character twenty questions right off the bat, no, but maybe after you complete a plot you could click on them in the camp and ask them about the plot point specifically -- and it leads into something related, perhaps at your option. I'd prefer that to exposition on their background (which is to say I'd prefer to reveal character and background while you are talking to them about something else rather than allowing the player to simply say "Tell me all about your background."

Err... was someone talking about removing romance or party banter or even removing entirely the ability to talk to a follower in camp? Not me.

That last one is rather unequivocal don't you think. Nor, by the way, does David even say that the Awakenings conversation system will necessarily be adopted in its entireity or in part. I'll save the quote diving for you, but David actually goes through several ideas and I doubt that's all he's got. The main thrust I got from his comments was only that the part of the Origins system where you quiz your Companions was going to be strongly toned down in favor of using context and other topics to drive character development. Hope this helps.

[jenncgf]

Catcher,



Thanks for pulling out the quotes and for the link. What you've grabbed makes a lot more sense than the folks who are assuming that we won't be able to have conversations at all, and if that sort of thing is the way future DA releases go, I'm excited to see it!

[soteria]

MistySun wrote...

I read somewhere that Bioware have said they're removing camp conversation and future games will be more like the Awakening system.
Don't do it. 
You made DAO a great success.
But you made Awakenings a lost cause. People (most) did not like it.
Stick to what you know best. To make a great game such as DAO.
If future DA goes the same way as Awakenings, you will lose out.

In other words...the end of the line. 

Most people didn't like it?  I guess you're the majority representative or something?  Where are you getting these numbers?

[mousestalker]

I can't speak for most people. I did not like the conversation system in Awakening as much as the one in Origins. Talking to trees and floating boats seems silly. Clicking on people to speak with them makes more sense.

[Pubknight]

In DAO I was drawn in to the story, and felt connected to the characters.

I could explore the conversation trees with them when I wished.

With Awakenings, I feel no connection whatsoever to the characters, and thus by extension, the story.

Awakenings, for all intents and purposes, is not an expansion of DAO... it really is a stand alone game.

And one that I don't particularly care for.

[David Gaider]

MistySun wrote...
I read somewhere that Bioware have said they're removing camp conversation and future games will be more like the Awakening system.
Don't do it. 
You made DAO a great success.
But you made Awakenings a lost cause. People (most) did not like it.
Stick to what you know best. To make a great game such as DAO.
If future DA goes the same way as Awakenings, you will lose out.

In other words...the end of the line. 

A) As was pointed out above, despite what you "read somewhere", that's not what we're doing. Just because we're not doing one thing does not make it the extreme and exact opposite. Chances are it will end up somewhere in-between... which is, frankly, the case every time someone on the forums begins panicking over a perceived change.

On the off chance what we implement isn't what you're looking for, I apologize in advance. Even so, we'll muddle through somehow despite what "most" people think.

[Khayness]

Combine the two. Best of both worlds.

[sonsonthebia07]

I liked the system in Origins better, but on the other side of the coin I did not really like having to leave areas and then come back constantly to get more banter...



The clickable items helped with this in a way, even though they were only b/w the warden and another. It's also more "real" - for example, Oghren telling Leliana to put Schmooples in her pack in Origins when it is not even on the screen has no visuals to it, and you just have to imagine the nug walking around.



I see some people saying both, and I would agree that would be in my best interest.

[Nu-Nu]

The thing I hate the most about awakening convo system is that some of the triggers were down at the end of the dungeon and you didn't have the right person with you. It's a pain to trek all that way again just to have a 5 secs dialogue with the right person.



I did like the triggers and would like to see a mixture of the two combined, just don't put triggers in awkward places please.

[Tokion]

I personally hated the mission branch system in DAO. The thing I like about Awakening system was the replay value it added for bringing a different sets of companion in each playthrough. I was more attached to the ones I bring with me than the others at camp(as it should be), and it feels generic as there is an adventurous feeling when 'what you bring is what you get'.

Baldur's gate had that, there are companions you cannot bring along with you in your group because they don't get along with each other. It doesn't make sense for Edwin to wait around in your camp while you are out with Dynaheir most of the time does it?

Modifié par Tokion, 21 mai 2010 - 02:49 .

[kaimanaMM]

I didn't mind the new system in Awakening, I actually liked it versus the old system, which ended up being a little on the tedious side at times.  I liked the interactive objects, seeing my companions react to the environment, having a person, place or thing spark a memory or conversation.  It gave the characters more life, made it feel more fluid and natural in the setting.

What I didn't like was that some of these triggers were in the bottom of a dungeon and I didn't have the right companion with me.  I don't mind some of that, I want dungeons to be just as wonderful and interactive as cities / towns, so I don't really know what the answer is to fix / work on that aspect of the system.  (I'll leave that to the pros at BioWare!)

Overall, I think a mix of old and new would work out great.

[Zanderat]

The involving camp conversations are what made the game for me.  Besides, not being ale to initiate converstaions, as in Awakening, is just plain dumb. 

The game has been dumbed down enough for the Konsole Kids.

If they implement the Awakening system in DA2, I will be forced to pass.

[Zanderat]

Lucy_Glitter wrote...

I thought the new dialogue system was innovative. They said it wouldn't be the same, they would upgrade it even more.

This commnet is precisely what is scaring me........

[Zanderat]

jenncgf wrote...

Catcher,

Thanks for pulling out the quotes and for the link. What you've grabbed makes a lot more sense than the folks who are assuming that we won't be able to have conversations at all, and if that sort of thing is the way future DA releases go, I'm excited to see it!

Having played Awakening, I can assure you that people's fears are well grounded.

[Zanderat]

David Gaider wrote...

MistySun wrote...
I read somewhere that Bioware have said they're removing camp conversation and future games will be more like the Awakening system.
Don't do it. 
You made DAO a great success.
But you made Awakenings a lost cause. People (most) did not like it.
Stick to what you know best. To make a great game such as DAO.
If future DA goes the same way as Awakenings, you will lose out.

In other words...the end of the line. 

A) As was pointed out above, despite what you "read somewhere", that's not what we're doing. Just because we're not doing one thing does not make it the extreme and exact opposite. Chances are it will end up somewhere in-between... which is, frankly, the case every time someone on the forums begins panicking over a perceived change.

On the off chance what we implement isn't what you're looking for, I apologize in advance. Even so, we'll muddle through somehow despite what "most" people think.

I don't care for your dismissive eltiist attitude.  Maybe you should LISTEN and acknowledge what your CUSTOMERS are saying.

[Addai]

Even though I didn't like the Awakening system, I would be happy with a combination approach. There were times in Origins when I wanted to turn to NPC companions and ask them what they thought I should do, or why they had made a comment they made, or something about the matter at hand.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 mai 2010 - 05:37 .

[Addai]

Zanderat wrote...
I don't care for your dismissive eltiist attitude.  Maybe you should LISTEN and acknowledge what your CUSTOMERS are saying.

Seems to me he was just addressing rumors and dispelling some of them.  As one who panicked a little after Awakening, I appreciate the reassurance.

[Zanderat]

Addai67 wrote...

Even though I didn't like the Awakening system, I would be happy with a combination approach. There were times in Origins where I wanted to turn to NPC companions and ask them what they thought I should do, or why they had made a comment they made, or something about the matter at hand.

Agreed.  I didn't say that there wasn't room for improvement.  I just find David G.'s attitude rather condensending.  It's as if they have no idea why people like their game.

Modifié par Zanderat, 21 mai 2010 - 05:02 .