185 réponses à ce sujet

[Spawn305]

great job wasting your time with this useless post

[panic686original]

The dwarves in this setting are taller than usual so the longsword is not really a problem.

[artmonster1967]

Spawn305 wrote...

i just want to pinch them cute cheeks

I ...bet ...you ...do......

.

[TheRealIncarnal]

I think you're just a little too attached for your DnD/WoW/ect. image of Dwarves. Maybe you should ask "Why should they not use swords?".



If you're in a fight, you're going to want a sword. There's a reason that every single army at one time used swords, while many shunned axes and maces as standard issue equipment. Swords simply effective tools for killing, you can stab, you can swing, you can block, and you can parry very easily with a sword. Axes, Hammers, and Maces don't do all of those things as easily. Also, unlike an Ax, Hammer, or Mace, you don't need a full swing for a sword to do damage, which would be extremely useful in confined places... like a cave.



So from a practical point, if the Dwarves are a race that has been under constant assault for over 400 years in a cave, why would you expect them to not favor the most close-combat combat focused weapon? Technically, all of the others are tools which just happen to also be good at hurting people, but a sword is only useful for fighting.

[tehgimpeh]

Oh good Lord. Swords are just as damaging as axes and indeed against lightly armoured foes like the Darkspawn are better weapons. A claymore (Scottish version of a two-handed sword) has been proven to slice cleanly through three necks in one swing. Most of that damage is due in part to it's elongated blade which you wouldn't have on an axe.

[Spawn305]

Crawling_Chaos wrote...

Spawn305 wrote...

great job wasting your time with this useless post

Great job wasting your time with a useless, pointless thread.

hey thanks. 4 pages down i wounder how long this conversation would go on for?

[TheRealIncarnal]

Ughh! This place was so much nicer before the launch. People would actually discuss things, without it going "OMGZ U Rz So 57P!D!" with poorly expressed negativity.



It's sad, but hopefully as the rifraff clear out a few weeks after the old friendly community will remain.

I really hope so.

[Spawn305]

Nah Forums are never a friendly place no matter what game you go to. Although LOTR forums are not to bad last i checked. WoW's is till well just as bad as before.

[Ingrimm22]

Dude, don't be such a conservative Lore-****. People like you are the reason why EVERY RPG has to have these worn-out, age old clichees because people like you nerdrage about it and don't buy if they don't get want they expect. This is ridiculous.



1. Dwarves in DA are NOT Miners, they are Warriors.

2. Why is an axe more logical than a sword? I mean Axes are made to chop wood and there are not many trees underground i reckon.

[Spawn305]

Ingrimm22 wrote...

Dude, don't be such a conservative Lore-****. People like you are the reason why EVERY RPG has to have these worn-out, age old clichees because people like you nerdrage about it and don't buy if they don't get want they expect. This is ridiculous.

1. Dwarves in DA are NOT Miners, they are Warriors.
2. Why is an axe more logical than a sword? I mean Axes are made to chop wood and there are not many trees underground i reckon.

A butter knight was bade to put butter on bread.. Does that mean I can’t stab you with it?

A sword is used for battle. Does that mean I can’t cut bread with it?

A wipe was made to hit cattle to make them keep moving. Does that mean Indiana Jones can’t use it as a weapon?

Even better a chain saw is used to cut lumber. Does that mean leather face can't kill you with it?

What im getting at is, Just because it wasnt made strictly for battle doesn;t mean you can't use it for battle.
A battle hammer can perry just as good as a sword. an axe can do the same. a flail maybe not the best but them spiked balls hurt like hell.

Modifié par Spawn305, 09 novembre 2009 - 05:24 .

[Garld]

tehgimpeh wrote...

Oh good Lord. Swords are just as damaging as axes and indeed against lightly armoured foes like the Darkspawn are better weapons. A claymore (Scottish version of a two-handed sword) has been proven to slice cleanly through three necks in one swing. Most of that damage is due in part to it's elongated blade which you wouldn't have on an axe.

Um...really? Elongated blades do exactly what again to the physics of a swinging blade weapon? Think it through a little more and you'll see clearly why the length of the WEAPON as a whole is a factor, but not the blade itself. A Axe and a Sword of the exact same overall length have the same overall cutting profile, differences being the axe usually has its cutting weight sitting only in one spot, thus more mass moving at that spot when it contacts something else. The sword has its cutting edge typically only on the last 1/3 of the blade (dont beleive me? you need to do more research into the real history of swords then) but the mass is distributed evenly across the whole area.

Look, real world physics need not apply to a fantasy game, its true. But at the same time claiming 'Dwarves must use hammers and axes exlusivly' need not apply either. Its the stubborn mule of an OP and his supporters that make excuses for it being so. Denying real world comparisons as 'invalid' is just as 'invalid' as claiming 'stereotyping' for dwarves across different brands of fiction. Sorry, you can't have it both ways!

Now here is something that will shock a great deal of people who don't know a lot of medieval history...The Sword was never, hear me now, NEVER a primary weapon of ANY major army. Eastern or Western. Even knights used it strictly as a backup weapon, or in duels. I'm not saying it was a bad weapon or it was shunned, but stictly speaking it was the most versitle weapon available and that was what kept it from being the primary weapon on the field. Odd I know but think of it this way, you wouldn't use a swiss army knife's can-opener to open a can if you have a real can-opener available (unless you're silly) so why would you use a sword when a lance or spear will kill your foe from a further distance more reliably. Only...the spear (etc) couldn't keep you safe in close quarters so you'de have to pull out something for that. Now we have the sword come out! Keep safe in tighter quarters, have the ability to go up against any kind of foe you'll meet in the melee and never be at a disadvantage from your weapon alone. In warfare you PLAN to use the best weapon you have to kill your enemy on your terms, thats the spear or lance or anything with 'reach and momentum' then you PLAN to have something to cover that weapons shotcomings. 

There is little question why there were so many kinds of swords in the end anyways, but the fact remains that a sword is still only one tool out of many. The sharp, pointy stick (aka spear) was the battlefield weapon of choice for all of history (pre-firearms).

To tie this all back in, a Dwarf who's social class is not resticted to 'smithing' or whatever, nor is fighting en mass often, and up against a foe who does use a veriaty of weapons would be well adviced to use a sword. I dont see many dwarf mounts to make lances and spear tactics practicle for them (again...thats an arbitrary choice by the creators) so swords are the next logical step.


PS: Whoever thinks a sword isn't as usfull against plate armor as a hammer or mace just doesn't understand all the ways swords changed over the years. As 'full plate' became more and more available, longswords (the real kind, not the mythical 1 handed psuedo-fantasy swords) changed with them. They became more and more tapered, with sharper thrusting tips instead of straight.

Research Extra:
http://www.myarmoury...e_arms_gls.html
http://www.algonet.s...keshott_eng.htm
http://swordforum.com/

My work of education is done for the day! Enjoy!

[Garld]

A battle hammer can perry just as good as a sword. an axe can do the same. a flail maybe not the best but them spiked balls hurt like hell.

Um...no. Have you ever tried this before or see some non-fantasy person try? Think for even a few seconds and you can see why a hammer or an axe cannot parry (parry is a misnomer by the way) as good as a sword. The hammer and axe are not built to intercept anything. The head of an axe it all the way out at the end (as is the hammers) and if you know anything about good swordsmanship you'd know that parrying out there is a good way to get killed anyways.

"Oh but I could parry on the shaft"...sure...if its made out of 3 inch thick steel. You MIGHT parry another sword once, but you sure as hell aint parrying even a single handed mace without the shaft getting mangled, let alone another axe or hammer...



Common people...THINK!

[Spawn305]

Garld wrote...

A battle hammer can perry just as good as a sword. an axe can do the same. a flail maybe not the best but them spiked balls hurt like hell.

Um...no. Have you ever tried this before or see some non-fantasy person try? Think for even a few seconds and you can see why a hammer or an axe cannot parry (parry is a misnomer by the way) as good as a sword. The hammer and axe are not built to intercept anything. The head of an axe it all the way out at the end (as is the hammers) and if you know anything about good swordsmanship you'd know that parrying out there is a good way to get killed anyways.
"Oh but I could parry on the shaft"...sure...if its made out of 3 inch thick steel. You MIGHT parry another sword once, but you sure as hell aint parrying even a single handed mace without the shaft getting mangled, let alone another axe or hammer...

Common people...THINK!

I was referring to games Like DnD and DA:O you do not get a - perry for a hammer, sword, or a mace. you do however get a - perry on 2 handed weapons. but you can still perry with a 2 hander.

[Garld]

Ooooh so its ok to apply fantasy rules when it applies in your head then Spawn305? (pArry btw, perry is a guys name) Sorry, but according to the 'rules' of DnD, a Flail has just as much ability to parry as a wet noodle with the right feats (3.5 oh how broken you are and 4.0 how ambiguous you are!) Not to mention you listed...wipe (Whip...) and how Indie uses it, a butter knife, and a chain saw...you can see how I clearly missed how you applied all those NON-D&D things to your D&D analogy and thought you were talking about 'reality' here.



Again...your reality (that is your perception of why the fantasy world creators would reason thus) is flawed when it comes to dwarves needing to use axes and hammers only. Not only from the fantasy standpoint but a reality/historical standpoint as well. Swords fit just as much as any other weapon.

[Seraph Aur]

As a long-time Warhammer and D&D player who loves Dwarfs (e.g. Dwarves), I also have a preference for Axes and Hammers, but the Dwarves in Dragon Age don't share the same lore, history or culture, so it's not unreasonable that they would use swords.  Rest assured that other weapon types become available as you play through the campaign, however, so you can certainly change up later if you prefer something besides a sword.


I'd suggest creating a new Dwarf noble character and pay careful attention to the starting cutscene for that origin.  I kind of missed it my first time around, but the Dwarf culture in DA is *very* different than the proud, taciturn, honorable Dwarfs we're used to from other games.  The origin story itself emphasizes this pretty clearly.  Recognizing that this isn't a Forgotten Realms D&D campaign ala Baldur's Gate will probably help you enjoy the game more.


To support what Garld is saying, weapons don't exist in a vacuum.  They are specifically designed to defeat armor, just as armor is designed to defeat weapons.  The history of warfare is the history of weaponry.  Think of it this way: I pick up a stick to hit you over the head.  You put some tree bark on your head to protect it, so I sharpen the point of my stick in order to poke you. A sword is great if your opponent is unmounted, up close and armed with a similar weapon, but not so great if he's armored and on horseback.  In that case, a halberd would give you the range to reach up and yank his ass off the horse and onto the ground, where you could beat him senseless.


Each weapon type is a response to some perceived need and no one weapon is perfect in all circumstances.  The true warrior chooses the right tool for the job, whether that's a sword, an axe or a toothpick.

Modifié par Seraph Aur, 09 novembre 2009 - 11:26 .

[Ceskay]

Old joke is old...didn't someone post the exact some thing, except about dwarven accents? If you want to play a game full of old D&D stereotypes, play D&D.

[Shadow_Viper]

It's amazing what people whine about. This reminds me of the "silly underwear" and "elves with sideburns" threads on the old forums.

[brgillespie]

I can't believe Bioware put dwarves into this game without Scottish accents! WTF! They live underground, just like real-world Scots do, therefore they should have Scottish accents!

[Shadow_Viper]

Yeah, how dare game developers do something different and try to get away from stereotypes, right?

[Symphyon]

i too kind agree with you on not using swords.. So from when I was a duster, I started using a 2handed Maul..then when i got the gold to buy the axe I got, i have been using it until now.

[Fachir74]

I'm quite laughing here...



Sorry, but as much people have said it is a fantasy world, so they can do as they wish, but i will agree with much people here, if they can't use a sword they why an axe? since they have been living in the underground, they should use hammers and pickaxes, they are suppose to be a race mining, smiting and war machine inventor, but then again, as i said it is a fantasy world, if they wish to the only weapon for the dwarfs a dagger, then it is a dagger that we will use, i love to play a dwarf and what they use as a weapon is not what it makes a dwarf a dwarf.

[ApacheX2]

Spawn305 wrote...

SIde note. The dwarf noble story line was awesome. But would have been even better if they had HAMMERS OR AXES AND NOT SWORDS!

WAAA WAAA!....LOL!! You cry way to much kid. Grow up and move on so just because your a dwarf its a sin to touch a sword...please!