185 réponses à ce sujet

[Kiddeth]

Spawn305 wrote...

Dwarfs in this game ****** me off. What’s the deal with all the dwarfs in this game using Long swords.
 
Really, Long swords. I understand you’re trying to make your own lore but come on. This is something that should not be changed. Dwarfs live underground. They have no use for swords. Hammers and axes yes but not swords. I always play dwarfs in RTS and in PnP DnD. And I must admit this alone almost caused me to quit this game. Also the fact that I got kicked out of my home town and my father gives me a sword, REALLY A SWORD! Were the hell is the family legacy hammer that my ancestors used to smite some old school evil. Nope they all used swords because everyone else in the world uses swords.
 
I want a Dwarf using a freaking battle hammer and a large steel shield. But yet I’m forced into using a sword and shield. Where are all the other types of weapons? I have yet to see a battle hammer, hammer, maul, mace, axe, or morning stars drop or be sold I have yet to see any 2h axes, or hammers either. Why are we forced into using swords as a dwarf?

oh boo ****ing hoo.

[F2Face]

well, there is the option that U can use 2h axe or waraxe with shield, the rules are the same and your abilities will allow you to use them as U use the different types of swords...well there are more swords in the game but u can acquire blunt weapons as well.

[Spawn305]

I actually rerolled a rogue last night. And in the chest in my room(don't remember if it was locked or not) was a 2h maul, 1h mace, and i think a 1h axe. I must have missed this in excitement to play the game.



Also I never said this game was bad, I merely said I hate that they don’t use hammers and axes and start with swords. That’s all this thread is about. And then I said in the same post that I understand that their trying to make their own lore but to me this is one thing they shouldn't have changed about the dwarves in this game.

[Melheyon]

In cramped quarters figthing, like a narrow tunnel with low ceiling, weilding a weapon you must swing would be a disadvantage compared to a weapon that can be used to effectively stab as well.



Also fighting side by side stabbing decidedly has its advantages.

Havent run into many dwarves yet, but i see dwarves prefering swords to axes more as a

"fix" to something DnD did wrong. Underground dwarves with huge axes dont really make sense.



A "Dwarf-sword" made for both stabbing and swinging does.

[The_Madpaddy]

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

"I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!"

But thats just it NOTHING has changed this is a brand new game and world maybe if this was D&D or something then yes you could say its changed,but atm its a whole new concept not a copy of something else .

[Spawn305]

The_Madpaddy wrote...

allothernamesweretaken wrote...

"I DON'T LIKE CHANGE!"

But thats just it NOTHING has changed this is a brand new game and world maybe if this was D&D or something then yes you could say its changed,but atm its a whole new concept not a copy of something else .

true. Just hard to adjust.

[illidoth123]

Spawn305 wrote...

Dwarfs in this game ****** me off. What’s the deal with all the dwarfs in this game using Long swords.
 
Really, Long swords. I understand you’re trying to make your own lore but come on. This is something that should not be changed. Dwarfs live underground. They have no use for swords. Hammers and axes yes but not swords. I always play dwarfs in RTS and in PnP DnD. And I must admit this alone almost caused me to quit this game. Also the fact that I got kicked out of my home town and my father gives me a sword, REALLY A SWORD! Were the hell is the family legacy hammer that my ancestors used to smite some old school evil. Nope they all used swords because everyone else in the world uses swords.
 
I want a Dwarf using a freaking battle hammer and a large steel shield. But yet I’m forced into using a sword and shield. Where are all the other types of weapons? I have yet to see a battle hammer, hammer, maul, mace, axe, or morning stars drop or be sold I have yet to see any 2h axes, or hammers either. Why are we forced into using swords as a dwarf?

cant stab a dragon in the throat with a hammer

[Auraad]

...
If you're in a fight, you're going to want a sword. There's a reason that every single army at one time used swords, while many shunned axes and maces as standard issue equipment. Swords simply effective tools for killing, you can stab, you can swing, you can block, and you can parry very easily with a sword. Axes, Hammers, and Maces don't do all of those things as easily. Also, unlike an Ax, Hammer, or Mace, you don't need a full swing for a sword to do damage, which would be extremely useful in confined places... like a cave.

....

This needs to be corrected slightly.
While it is true, that in the *real* world most armies "back then" used swords, it has different reasons for this.
The main reason is that swords are more easy to use for most humans - the movements and the comp. light weigt are the main reason for this. Furthermore, swords are easier to produce than heavy axes or hammers - swords are flat (compared to a hammer) or straight/one bladed compared to axes.

Very tall and strong knights of course used axes and hammers! And the damage they dealt was ... massive. However, only useful for the strongest of fighters (another reason for them was the dread looks  )

So, as dwarves usually are more sturdy than humans, it could make sense for them to use axes and hammers. Besides, again, it's something about style... (sometimes it's not very well received when trying to mess with "traditions" too hard....which Bio - imo - did in some respect with DA:O)

[The_Madpaddy]

illidoth123 wrote...

Spawn305 wrote...

Dwarfs in this game ****** me off. What’s the deal with all the dwarfs in this game using Long swords.
 
Really, Long swords. I understand you’re trying to make your own lore but come on. This is something that should not be changed. Dwarfs live underground. They have no use for swords. Hammers and axes yes but not swords. I always play dwarfs in RTS and in PnP DnD. And I must admit this alone almost caused me to quit this game. Also the fact that I got kicked out of my home town and my father gives me a sword, REALLY A SWORD! Were the hell is the family legacy hammer that my ancestors used to smite some old school evil. Nope they all used swords because everyone else in the world uses swords.
 
I want a Dwarf using a freaking battle hammer and a large steel shield. But yet I’m forced into using a sword and shield. Where are all the other types of weapons? I have yet to see a battle hammer, hammer, maul, mace, axe, or morning stars drop or be sold I have yet to see any 2h axes, or hammers either. Why are we forced into using swords as a dwarf?

cant stab a dragon in the throat with a hammer

Can bash his big toe with a hammer though lol

[illidoth123]

just because you dont start out with an epic hammer does not mean you cant go out into the world and find one!

[twystedspyder]

I sort of understand this argument. I do miss the option of having a one handed hammer option as it is very "dwarfy" to do hammer and shield.

Honestly, though, my first D&D character, whom I based first DAO character on, was actually a dwarf fighter, specialized in the long sword.

Two-handed Mauls and Battle-Axes are in the game, though. Sten is currently wielding a flaming two-handed axe in my game.

I’m actually more annoyed at the lack of any pole-arms to be honest. Why do they keep getting the short end of the stick? Pun intended.

I'm sure we would all prefer more weapons types over less but with so much content in this game I can hardly blame them for cutting some corners. Still, more weapons = more variety = more fun. Including pole-arms would have created an entirely different weapon talent tree which I would have happily welcomed. I've notice some other recent fantasy games cutting some "less popular" weapons from their game designs as well. *cough*elder scrolls*cough*

Maybe they’ll add some weapon variety as DLC and we'll see some war hammers and spears.

I do think the original poster does need to calm down just a wee bit; this is a great game and dwarves use swords all the time in fantasy literature. I think Games Workshop may be poisoning some young minds...

Modifié par twystedspyder, 10 novembre 2009 - 04:04 .

[TG_Jaedan]

This was actually an entertaining thread to read amongst all the whining....



To note for those debating the viability of weapons there is also another major factor to consider in fantasy games like this that at least have some form of real world type combat and that is the type of combat you are engageing in. The style of fighting varies greatly when you are talking about a soldier in an army or individual skirmishes or fights.



A spear really isn't quite so useful if one person is standing alone against one or two others. Our heros aren't meant to be trained soldiers fighting in an orginized army. It was very difficult for soldiers like that to ever use any kind of swinging weapon simply because you did not have room to swing the weapons with everyone else around you. Most of us fantasize about these glorious plate wearing knights when that really was never the norm at all. Plate armor was only worn by those that could afford it...which really wasn't very many people. Most edged weapons (including axes) were not useful against this because they were designed much like modern tanks with angles to the armor to deflect blows. This is why heavy piercing weapons evolved including axes and warhammers with piercing ends on one side.



In any case this game doesn't really have us lining up in formation with a regiment but rather engageing in smaller more personal battles where the tactics and weapons choices would be much different.

[Eidolonn]

Build custom content yourself or get a job with BioWare so you can have your impact on the lore yourself.



Seriously, how the hell did this troll thread reach 5 pages?



Dammit... I just added to it. Sorry.

[Itkovian]

Funny, didn't Thorin use a sword?



Itkovian

[Bathead]

Quite frankly, I could care leass about the OP's preferences, He's entilted to them. What I don't get is how he could NOT find any axes/hammers. I've run thru both dwarf origins a couple of times each and found PLENTY of axes/hammers/maces, both one and two handed. Must not be looking in the right palces.

[Garld]

A spear really isn't quite so useful if one person is standing alone against one or two others. Our heros aren't meant to be trained soldiers fighting in an orginized army. It was very difficult for soldiers like that to ever use any kind of swinging weapon simply because you did not have room to swing the weapons with everyone else around you. Most of us fantasize about these glorious plate wearing knights when that really was never the norm at all. Plate armor was only worn by those that could afford it...which really wasn't very many people. Most edged weapons (including axes) were not useful against this because they were designed much like modern tanks with angles to the armor to deflect blows. This is why heavy piercing weapons evolved including axes and warhammers with piercing ends on one side.

Minor bone to pick here, and this is from personal experiance, but a single spear is very scary to be up against even with two or three guys. Sure you say 'He can only get one of us before the other two get him' but really that one guy doesn't want to die, so he never seems to step in close enough to get stabbed to make that opening. The one guy with the spear is still at a huge advantage, and if trained well would have learned to not heft the spear all the way out...so when one person does try to slip through he can quickly retract and reset his 'klling circle' to the new distance. But...thats a minor nit-pick. Good words otherwise.



Piercing weapons versus plate had about the same issues as cutting and slashing weapons. It was difficult to find places to hit. Bashing weapons did do more 'damage' but most of the time it was superficial plate getting crunched. In all, no weapon was as optimal at dealing with plate as was the Roundel (Dagger). Most deaths full plate warriors experianced were after they were too tired or injured to fight effectivly, or like at Agincourt just swarmed by many 'minions'. These tired plate wearers just couldn't defend against a dagger in the eye slit or against the exposed back of the neck. I still think that is a really scary thing to consider...the tanks of the age weren't taken out by bigger guns, but by running them out of gas so to speak, then finishing them with the smallest of all weapons.

Then again the majority of plate bearing nobles of the times were more often captured instead of killed, for their ransom. A nice noble knight captured could elevate a minor nobles esteem and income from modest to wealthy in a single battle.



Anyways TG_Jaeden, good stuff otherwise. I know I'm nitpicking on you a bit there, but I like to find excuses to show more of this very interesting history!

[musicalfrog7]

Spawn305 wrote...

Ralsar wrote...

Uhhhh..... wow

WoW what a great and thoughtful post you made here. I mean you’re contributing to this so very much.

Wow is really the only thing needed here.
But since you want me to spell it out....

Wow, I can't believe something as little as what weapon you're given to your dwarf character is enough to come in here and make a long-winded and angry post about how you almost quit the game over it.

Really? Quit the game over a WEAPON? You've probably just complained over the smallest and most unimportant detail I've ever seen. That's what the wow is. This is ridiculous. If there is evidence that people will complain about anything it is right here.

And since you started to say it, I'll finish it for you...Dwarves.....are....not.........the same as other Dwarves in fantasy lore! I don't even associate one weapon really with Dwarves and I'm sure a lot of people don't either.

I don't actually believe that you would have quit over this. Those are the words of someone angry, irrational, and yelling because something isn't perfect.

[stcoyle]

if you want something like DnD why not just go play DnD? cant compare DA to DnD they are two different games in the same genre. its like saying my apple doesn't taste like an orange and it should because its fruit!

[Spawn305]

stcoyle wrote...

if you want something like DnD why not just go play DnD? cant compare DA to DnD they are two different games in the same genre. its like saying my apple doesn't taste like an orange and it should because its fruit!

That really not a good analogy. Due to the fact that DnD and DA:O both come from the same  starting place. If i remember correctly that would be from J.R.R Tolken (i think his stuff was out before DnD was created. Please correct me if I’m wrong.)
An apple and an orange do not.
 I didn't do a lot of research on this game before buying. Looked like a good and my friend got it for me for my B-day. I did not know at first this game was not based on DnD rules. About a day later I found that out. But that doesn't change the fact that I like DnD Dwarfs better then DA:O dwarfs.
Does that mean this is a bad game? Not at all it’s actually a very well put together game with great character immersion and a great story to tell. Just because it’s not the DnD rule set and lore does not make this a bad game. Just bad dwarfs because I was expecting “Normal” dwarfs.

Modifié par Spawn305, 10 novembre 2009 - 05:51 .

[Spawn305]

Garld wrote...

A spear really isn't quite so useful if one person is standing alone against one or two others. Our heros aren't meant to be trained soldiers fighting in an orginized army. It was very difficult for soldiers like that to ever use any kind of swinging weapon simply because you did not have room to swing the weapons with everyone else around you. Most of us fantasize about these glorious plate wearing knights when that really was never the norm at all. Plate armor was only worn by those that could afford it...which really wasn't very many people. Most edged weapons (including axes) were not useful against this because they were designed much like modern tanks with angles to the armor to deflect blows. This is why heavy piercing weapons evolved including axes and warhammers with piercing ends on one side.

Minor bone to pick here, and this is from personal experiance, but a single spear is very scary to be up against even with two or three guys. Sure you say 'He can only get one of us before the other two get him' but really that one guy doesn't want to die, so he never seems to step in close enough to get stabbed to make that opening. The one guy with the spear is still at a huge advantage, and if trained well would have learned to not heft the spear all the way out...so when one person does try to slip through he can quickly retract and reset his 'klling circle' to the new distance. But...thats a minor nit-pick. Good words otherwise.

Piercing weapons versus plate had about the same issues as cutting and slashing weapons. It was difficult to find places to hit. Bashing weapons did do more 'damage' but most of the time it was superficial plate getting crunched. In all, no weapon was as optimal at dealing with plate as was the Roundel (Dagger). Most deaths full plate warriors experianced were after they were too tired or injured to fight effectivly, or like at Agincourt just swarmed by many 'minions'. These tired plate wearers just couldn't defend against a dagger in the eye slit or against the exposed back of the neck. I still think that is a really scary thing to consider...the tanks of the age weren't taken out by bigger guns, but by running them out of gas so to speak, then finishing them with the smallest of all weapons.
Then again the majority of plate bearing nobles of the times were more often captured instead of killed, for their ransom. A nice noble knight captured could elevate a minor nobles esteem and income from modest to wealthy in a single battle.

Anyways TG_Jaeden, good stuff otherwise. I know I'm nitpicking on you a bit there, but I like to find excuses to show more of this very interesting history!

I have yet to see any of you bring up the fact that most 2h swords were dull except for the tip. 2h swords were not sharp edged and was used to break bones instead of cutting them just like a hammer (Taken right from the tour guide at the PA, Art Museum.) The tip was pointy as hell though. An Axe was created to chop wood. Later it was used by executioners to lop off heads and limbs.

[DCver671]

The dwarves don't have old Irish accents either! I don't mind, and who said dwarves had to be Irish?



Dwarves are master smiths and can make anything, maybe this sect of dwarves were introduced to swords while fighting the darkspawn all their lives.



Does it matter? I've never seen a clean shaved dwarf, but I made one, and there are other NPCs too.



So what?

[Eidolonn]

Blah blah blah. Go play something else if the dwarves do not live up to your precious standards.

You are obviously a troll.  But you are not the traditional troll of lore where you will always regenerate unless we set you on fire, therefore you do not meet our standards.  Now begone.

Modifié par Eidolonn, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:05 .

[Spawn305]

Eidolonn wrote...

Build custom content yourself or get a job with BioWare so you can have your impact on the lore yourself.

Seriously, how the hell did this troll thread reach 5 pages?

Dammit... I just added to it. Sorry.

That’s what I was going to do. But I can’t get the builder to install on my computer. Goin have to do some searching on the builder forums to get it fixed.
1 I’m not a troll. As you can see due to the fact I have not be banned or warned by Bioware.
2nd No idea how it has gotten to page 5. But who cares. It’s a good discussion although it’s been going in 3 different directions. Direction 1, using real world physics in a game with magic and such. Direction 2, people just stopping in to post 1 line comments like “shut up” “go play DnD”. Direction 3, actually discussing why some people are discouraged that dwarfs do not have their normal stereo types that they have had in EVERY other game.

[Spawn305]

Eidolonn wrote...

Blah blah blah. Go play something else if the dwarves do not live up to your precious standards.

You are obviously a troll.  But you are not the traditional troll of lore where you will always regenerate unless we set you on fire, therefore you do not meet our standards.  Now begone.

blah blah blah go troll some were else. Reported and blocked.

[Seraph Aur]

DnD is not the correct abbreviation for Dungeons and Dragons, folks.  DnD is either "do not disturb" or more likely "Death and Decay" for the WoW-heads.  Dungeons and Dragons has always been abbreviated D&D.  If you're gonna geek out, at least get it right.