185 réponses à ce sujet

[Spawn305]

Seraph Aur wrote...

DnD is not the correct abbreviation for Dungeons and Dragons, folks.  DnD is either "do not disturb" or more likely "Death and Decay" for the WoW-heads.  Dungeons and Dragons has always been abbreviated D&D.  If you're gonna geek out, at least get it right.
 

True. Im used to useing EDnD. For Ed's Dungeons and Dragons. Ed being the Dungeon master that used to run games. Best god damn DM i've ever played D&D(corrected for you) with.

Modifié par Spawn305, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:09 .

[RyodorRilaith]

MY dwarf loves his 2h Swords

[Nautuin]

i know i'm way way way late on this but to the very early comment that dwarves should only use axes because the hobbit/lord of the rings is the origin of this sort of world..... do you not remember a little ole sword named Orcrist....

[Seraph Aur]

Since I'm already correcting geek-speak, I might as well go all the way and clarify that the reason axes are big for Dwarves has nothing at all to do with Tolkien.  (Remember, the Dwarves of Middle Earth forged all the great weapons, rings, etc. and certainly did not discriminate.  Besides, Tolkien didn't invent Dwarves; they come from Norse mythology.)


Dwarfs in the Warhammer game setting revere axes because they are sacred to Grimnir, one of the 3 ancestor gods of the Dwarfs.

Grimnir the Fearless is the warrior god of the Dwarfs. He personifies the undaunted courage and fearlessness of the Dwarf race. After the coming of Chaos to the Warhammer world, when raw magic poured into the world from the Realm of Chaos. Grimnir was given two mighty rune axes forged from the starmetal gromril by Grungni, which he used to fight off the daemons, giants, trolls and dragons which emerged to threaten the mountain realms of the Dwarf clans. On learning from the High Elves (Caledor Dragontamer) of the Chaos Portal at the north pole which was the source of Chaos, Grimnir vowed to close the gate himself. Grungni and Valaya told him that he would surely die from the cosmic energies around the gate, but Grimnir was determined to uphold his vow. He shaved his head and beard save for one crest of hair that ran from the nape of his neck to his forehead. Leaving one of his axes to his son, Grimnir departed for the north. He was never seen again, although his fate is unknown. The Dwarfs only say that he fell in darkness long ago.


The cult of Slayers venerates Grimnir in particular and they paint his rune on their bare flesh. They emulate his final actions by shaving their heads as he did and setting out to seek fights against near-invincible monsters so that they can die in glorious battle, defending Dwarf holds against their enemies.


One of the Axes of Grimnir is wielded by Thorgrim Grudgebearer, the current High King of the Dwarfs. The other is supposedly in the possession of the famous Slayer Gotrek Gurnisson, who found it while adventuring in the Chaos Wastes.

Source: http://warhammeronli...om/wiki/Grimnir

Modifié par Seraph Aur, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:26 .

[Spawn305]

Nautuin wrote...

i know i'm way way way late on this but to the very early comment that dwarves should only use axes because the hobbit/lord of the rings is the origin of this sort of world..... do you not remember a little ole sword named Orcrist....

No where did I say that dwarfs SHOULD only be able to use axes and hammers. So....... and like I said in the OP this is based on my bias of playing D&D. NOT LOTR!!!!!!!!!

[Spawn305]

Seraph Aur wrote...

Since I'm already correcting geek-speak, I might as well go all the way and clarify that the reason axes are big for Dwarves has nothing at all to do with Tolkien.  (Remember, the Dwarves of Middle Earth forged all the great weapons, rings, etc. and certainly did not discriminate.  Besides, Tolkien didn't invent Dwarves; they come from Norse mythology.)


Dwarfs in the Warhammer game setting revere axes because they are sacred to Grimnir, one of the 3 ancestor gods of the Dwarfs.

Grimnir the Fearless is the warrior god of the Dwarfs. He personifies the undaunted courage and fearlessness of the Dwarf race. After the coming of Chaos to the Warhammer world, when raw magic poured into the world from the Realm of Chaos. Grimnir was given two mighty rune axes forged from the starmetal gromril by Grungni, which he used to fight off the daemons, giants, trolls and dragons which emerged to threaten the mountain realms of the Dwarf clans. On learning from the High Elves (Caledor Dragontamer) of the Chaos Portal at the north pole which was the source of Chaos, Grimnir vowed to close the gate himself. Grungni and Valaya told him that he would surely die from the cosmic energies around the gate, but Grimnir was determined to uphold his vow. He shaved his head and beard save for one crest of hair that ran from the nape of his neck to his forehead. Leaving one of his axes to his son, Grimnir departed for the north. He was never seen again, although his fate is unknown. The Dwarfs only say that he fell in darkness long ago.


The cult of Slayers venerates Grimnir in particular and they paint his rune on their bare flesh. They emulate his final actions by shaving their heads as he did and setting out to seek fights against near-invincible monsters so that they can die in glorious battle, defending Dwarf holds against their enemies.


One of the Axes of Grimnir is wielded by Thorgrim Grudgebearer, the current High King of the Dwarfs. The other is supposedly in the possession of the famous Slayer Gotrek Gurnisson, who found it while adventuring in the Chaos Wastes.

Source: http://warhammeronli...om/wiki/Grimnir

Now that I think about it. Dwarfs in the EDnD game I was playing used hammers due to the fact the god of the dwarfs Moroden(Spell check) favored item was a battle hammer and a beer stine.

[Maeag]

sandofarms1 wrote...

In my country, dwarves use halberds.
what dwarf is in your country?

Haha that is brilliant.
In my country, dwarves use their beards as weapons.
What dwarf is in your country?

[Valfrekr]

MrGOH wrote...

They live underground; why would they have ever developed axes? Military picks, on the other hand, should be more prevalent in dwarven arms.

Good point

[Eidolonn]

Maeag wrote...

sandofarms1 wrote...

In my country, dwarves use halberds.
what dwarf is in your country?

Haha that is brilliant.
In my country, dwarves use their beards as weapons.
What dwarf is in your country?

In my country, dwarves ARE weapons.  They are tossed liberally.
What is a dwarf in your country.

[Valfrekr]

Spawn305 wrote...

In DnD lore from DnDv1 dwarfs had a racial bonus to axes and hammers. Axes need to cut the wood to fuel the fire’s, Axe's cut the wood needed to support a mining tunnel until the dwarfs could work the stone to make it stable
I don’t mean dwarfs shouldn’t be able to use swords. Just in DnD no dwarf would be caught dead using a sword as a primary weapon.

And like I said I understand that there trying to make their own lore aside from DnD rules and such. But this is the core of the dwarf race living under ground working the stone and the best crafters in the world. Lord Of the Rings has nothing to do with this discussion because like I said in my first post that I played PnP DnD since V1.

Well buddy, this isn't D&D it's Dragon Age. This is a world where surface dwarves are outcasts, and elves are slaves and second class citizens. 

First let me say this; I had no problem finding an Axe early on, and I believe I had one during the proving before I was exile. You say that the only weapon given to you was a sword and board by your father; remember you were exiled and sent to die. Why would he give you a precious heirloom?

Some of the other posters were right, why would a dwarf who has never gone to the surface need an axe? There were a lack of trees in the underground city.

[Spawn305]

Valfrekr wrote...

MrGOH wrote...

They live underground; why would they have ever developed axes? Military picks, on the other hand, should be more prevalent in dwarven arms.

Good point

So in this game the dwarfs do not trade with the suffice world? If they do then they would def buy wood. Every one needs wood. and if they buy wood they need to chop the wood. BAM and axe is made. Damn they need to get the wood to stay togeather. so they buy nails. BAM the hammer is made.

[rlnoe]

TheRealIncarnal wrote...

I think you're just a little too attached for your DnD/WoW/ect. image of Dwarves. Maybe you should ask "Why should they not use swords?".

If you're in a fight, you're going to want a sword. There's a reason that every single army at one time used swords, while many shunned axes and maces as standard issue equipment. Swords simply effective tools for killing, you can stab, you can swing, you can block, and you can parry very easily with a sword. Axes, Hammers, and Maces don't do all of those things as easily. Also, unlike an Ax, Hammer, or Mace, you don't need a full swing for a sword to do damage, which would be extremely useful in confined places... like a cave.

So from a practical point, if the Dwarves are a race that has been under constant assault for over 400 years in a cave, why would you expect them to not favor the most close-combat combat focused weapon? Technically, all of the others are tools which just happen to also be good at hurting people, but a sword is only useful for fighting.

Very true.  Also given that they might be fighting in the tight quarters of the tunnels as well as the more expansive larger chambers I would expect them to have preferred a sword that is shorter and more of a thrusting weapon.  A short sword like a Roman gladius would be better in tight confines (and for fighting in formation) than a large 2-handed weapon.  In fact in the medieval period sword and shield or sword and buckler fighting was extremely popular because of the simple fact that it was a good system for staying alive.

*possible slight spoiler below*

That being said I'm making my dwarf a 2-handed berserker and started out on the dwarven noble origin using a 2-handed maul that I found in a chest in my quarters.  So you can use a 2-handed hammer from the beginning if you so choose.  I used it up until the time I was exiled into the deep roads.  Now I'm using a 2-handed great sword (because it seems faster than the maul I used to have - I don't know if it is but it seems that way) and have a sword and shield as backup.

[Eidolonn]

Valfrekr wrote...

Spawn305 wrote...

In DnD lore from DnDv1 dwarfs had a racial bonus to axes and hammers. Axes need to cut the wood to fuel the fire’s, Axe's cut the wood needed to support a mining tunnel until the dwarfs could work the stone to make it stable
I don’t mean dwarfs shouldn’t be able to use swords. Just in DnD no dwarf would be caught dead using a sword as a primary weapon.

And like I said I understand that there trying to make their own lore aside from DnD rules and such. But this is the core of the dwarf race living under ground working the stone and the best crafters in the world. Lord Of the Rings has nothing to do with this discussion because like I said in my first post that I played PnP DnD since V1.

Well buddy, this isn't D&D it's Dragon Age. This is a world where surface dwarves are outcasts, and elves are slaves and second class citizens. 

First let me say this; I had no problem finding an Axe early on, and I believe I had one during the proving before I was exile. You say that the only weapon given to you was a sword and board by your father; remember you were exiled and sent to die. Why would he give you a precious heirloom?

Some of the other posters were right, why would a dwarf who has never gone to the surface need an axe? There were a lack of trees in the underground city.

It's just amazing to me that such an avid D&D player such as the OP has the inability to use his imagination and think outside of the box.  Dwarven lore in DA:O is obviously different than most other dwarven lore I have encountered.  It's not a far stretch to imagine *gasp* that they would make use of different tools and weapons.

[Eidolonn]

Spawn305 wrote...

So in this game the dwarfs do not trade with the suffice world? If they do then they would def buy wood. Every one needs wood. and if they buy wood they need to chop the wood. BAM and axe is made. Damn they need to get the wood to stay togeather. so they buy nails. BAM the hammer is made.

Whether they NEED wood or not is not known.  Coal can be burned.  And even if they did NEED wood, and axe to chop it, that does not automatically make an axe a primary weapon.  It means they have one minor reason to use it.

Modifié par Eidolonn, 10 novembre 2009 - 06:50 .

[rlnoe]

Garld wrote...

PS: Whoever thinks a sword isn't as usfull against plate armor as a hammer or mace just doesn't understand all the ways swords changed over the years. As 'full plate' became more and more available, longswords (the real kind, not the mythical 1 handed psuedo-fantasy swords) changed with them. They became more and more tapered, with sharper thrusting tips instead of straight.

Or they became heavier single-edged blades, such as the falchion, that were quite capable of doing significant damage even to plate armor.

[Nautuin]

Spawn305 wrote...

Nautuin wrote...

i know i'm way way way late on this but to the very early comment that dwarves should only use axes because the hobbit/lord of the rings is the origin of this sort of world..... do you not remember a little ole sword named Orcrist....

No where did I say that dwarfs SHOULD only be able to use axes and hammers. So....... and like I said in the OP this is based on my bias of playing D&D. NOT LOTR!!!!!!!!!

i was replying to the dude who said they should use axes cause of the hobbit, i dunno who it was, but it was just so absurdly stupid i had to bring up orcrist.

I agree you should have the option to pick swords/axes/maces whatever, but from my experience i do have that option .  :-P

[rlnoe]

Spawn305 wrote...


I have yet to see any of you bring up the fact that most 2h swords were dull except for the tip. 2h swords were not sharp edged and was used to break bones instead of cutting them just like a hammer (Taken right from the tour guide at the PA, Art Museum.) The tip was pointy as hell though. An Axe was created to chop wood. Later it was used by executioners to lop off heads and limbs.

You tour guide must have only been talking about late in the medieval period after plate armor had become fairly common.  Two-handed swords like that were developed as a response to armor shifting from chain to plate.  the blade became stiffer and the point became the focus of the blade.  The points were used to get at the vulnerable joints and places the plate didn't cover.

Earlier in the period when chain was the king of armor 2 handed swords with edges were more common.  Think claymore or the German grossmesser or the zweihander or even the hand and a half sword.  The blade of these swords tended to be wider to promote the slash or cut.  A good slashing cut from some of the two-handed swords of this earlier period were capable of shearing thru chain. 

Not all two-handed swords has blunt edges and those that were blunt were not used to break bones like a hammer.  Contrary to popular belief medieval swords were quite a bit lighter than most people think.  They were not sword-shaped steel pipes with a hilt.  All those stories of medieval swords weighing 10 pounds are just stupid and were put out there by people who have never bothered to do any real research.  A fighter would have to have a weapon he could use for a long period of time in a battle.  A tired fighter, to tired to keep fighting, in the midst of a melee was a dead fighter.  A fighter using a 10 pound sword was both stupid and dead.  They just didn't make swords like that because no fighter in his right mind would have used them.

I suggest you look at  www.thearma.org/ for some accurate information.

[stcoyle]

spawn i see what your saying and i play D&D ( see i corrected it lol) and WOD and all those PnP games. and I know you just saying the D&D dwarfs are better but you cant really compare the two. they are two separate things. im sure if the dwarfs were limited to axes,hammers and such way more people would be complaining about that. and besides its set in its own world where dwarfs use swords more often. just they way they want to tell a story.



and i never used an axe with my dwarfs in D&D. hated those things.

[The_Madpaddy]

As a side note ive played around 50 hrs ,is there a 1hd hammer ive seen maces axes and mauls,dont think ive seen a 1hd hammer though ??.

[Eidolonn]

He just wants to flame everyone with opinions that do not coincide with his own, stcoyle. Trolls can't speak common sense. He's been spamming my inbox with filth, too. Pretty humorous.

[stcoyle]

yeah im about 25 hrs in and havent seen a one handed hammer either. tons of axes and such not hammers.



he is spamming? well then that changes how nice i was going to be



spawn suck it up its a game no one is forcing you to play. isnt DnD online free? go for that.

[Spawn305]

Eidolonn wrote...

He just wants to flame everyone with opinions that do not coincide with his own, stcoyle. Trolls can't speak common sense. He's been spamming my inbox with filth, too. Pretty humorous.

Oh really. I have never sent a PM EVER on these forums. I left you a comment. Just to see how that stuff worked. Now that i know that I know it’s like facebook's wall I’ll never leave another comment for any one every again. As we all know Facebook is the devil

As for spamming your inbox that’s completely false.  I have never flamed any one for not having the same point of view i have. Please show me were some one expressed their point of view and i flamed them for it? You are the only person here flaming people for sharing their point of view.

Modifié par Spawn305, 10 novembre 2009 - 08:05 .

[Spawn305]

stcoyle wrote...

yeah im about 25 hrs in and havent seen a one handed hammer either. tons of axes and such not hammers.

he is spamming? well then that changes how nice i was going to be

spawn suck it up its a game no one is forcing you to play. isnt DnD online free? go for that.

That's funny due to the fact that Eidolonn has been trolling this thread for a day down.

[Eidolonn]

A day? LOL.  My first post in this thread was 4 hours ago.  Exaggerate for effect more please?

And then you send me personal messages calling me a douch bag. Forget the fact that you can't even spell "douche" correctly, but it is obvious who the troll is.  But I'll leave your precious little thread at any rate.

Modifié par Eidolonn, 10 novembre 2009 - 08:17 .

[Spawn305]

Eidolonn wrote...

A day? Exaggerate for effect more please?

You have been unnecessarily confrontational and insulting towards anyone with differing viewpoints from your own. And then you send me personal messages calling me a douch bag. Forget the fact that you can't even spell "douche" correctly, but it is obvious who the troll is.

Sorry I’m dyslexic and can’t spell like an English professor I’ll ask my god that when I die and if I’m reborn not have this problem again JUST so when I talk on a forums you won’t make fun of me. You are a douche bag. I've only been confrontational towards you. Because you are a douche bag, I've had you blocked now since your first post in this thread and yet I can stills see your posts. Trust me I don’t care what you have to say no matter how good of a point it is. I don’t care what you say about me to any one on these forums. You came into this thread with a trolling attitude and you are still here trolling away. I’ve reported you at least 7 times now to Bioware and they have yet to do anything.  I’ve talked to countless Admin and they still have yet to ban you.
IF you did not come in here trolling and trying to start **** with me I would have no problem listing to what you have to say. But all you know how to do is act like a kid who just got banned from WoW’s forums. So I’m asking you nicely to please stop derailing this thread to a flam fest because I will start flaming you publicly.

heres a link to learn some thing about Dyslecia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyslexia

Modifié par Spawn305, 10 novembre 2009 - 08:37 .