130 réponses à ce sujet

[Costin_Razvan]

A Cousland Warden can make a case for her/him. It would not be that unprecedented ( given that the only heir to the Theirin line is a bastard ), and many believed that the Cousland family should have taken the throne for themselves after Maric died, Bryce however supported Cailan.

The other wardens obviously don't have this choice.

Hell, if there was a choice I would make Loghain king with Anora as his counselor. Anora just seems too willing to put up with Orlais.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mai 2010 - 09:54 .

[Xandurpein]

HarlequinDream wrote...

Xandu, right.

There's really no one "right" to claim the throne, but the Warden... can't really make a case for themselves at all. There's at least, like you said, the factions of the Landsmeet that can be reasoned with to accept one or the other (or both) because the Warden is liked enough to tip the scales, but the Warden definitely doesn't have the authority to promote themselves for the post.

And you are right inso far that Anora and Alistair are the only ones who can get their claims legitimized by a majority of the Landsmeet. The nobles can be pushed into accepting making Alistair a legitimate heir or into accepting the Queen as the new monarch, but that is all they will tolerate.

[Costin_Razvan]

And you are right inso far that Anora and Alistair are the only ones who can get their claims legitimized by a majority of the Landsmeet. The nobles can be pushed into accepting making Alistair a legitimate heir or into accepting the Queen as the new monarch, but that is all they will tolerate.

Doubt it. I mean certainly there are limits ( like accepting someone from a different race or a mage ), but I do think they would tolerate if Cousland/Loghain/Eamon took the throne. They all have a claim for the throne to a degree.

By winning the duel, you basically have a great deal of power in making that choice. Should the nobles accept it in the years to come is a very different thing.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mai 2010 - 09:57 .

[sylvanaerie]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

A Cousland Warden can make a case for her/him. It would not be that unprecedented ( given that the only heir to the Theirin line is a bastard ), and many believed that the Cousland family should have taken the throne for themselves after Maric died, Bryce however supported Cailan.

The other wardens obviously don't have this choice.

Hell, if there was a choice I would make Loghain king with Anora as his counselor. Anora just seems too willing to put up with Orlais.

If you made Loghain king you would be executed. Thats the whole point of the Landsmeet.  If he wins and becomes regent/king, he immediately orders your execution.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, but some people would rather Mary or Marty Cousland got to be Queen/King all by themselves.

[Xandurpein]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hell, if there was a choice I would make Loghain king with Anora as his counselor. Anora just seems too willing to put up with Orlais.

I would have to disagree with that. Loghain makes a terrible King really. He simply thinks like a general and when he has the opportunity to listen to Anora he refuses. Anora is the one who can rule. If you want to keep Loghain somehow in power it would be a lot better to have Anora as queen and Loghain as her general/counselor.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xandurpein wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Hell, if there was a choice I would make Loghain king with Anora as his counselor. Anora just seems too willing to put up with Orlais.

I would have to disagree with that. Loghain makes a terrible King really. He simply thinks like a general and when he has the opportunity to listen to Anora he refuses. Anora is the one who can rule. If you want to keep Loghain somehow in power it would be a lot better to have Anora as queen and Loghain as her general/counselor.

Agreed, Loghain is not King material. And Anora is not made to simply be a councellor.

[Xandurpein]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Yeah, but some people would rather Mary or Marty Cousland got to be Queen/King all by themselves.

The big problem for Mary/Marty Cousland in convincing the nobles at the Landsmeet, is that Cousland is young and has not made any allies yet. The Cousland name alone won't help. There is also the fact that the Warden's main claim is the status as war hero. Unfortunatly Loghain's regency will probably have made the idea of making a war hero monarch a less attractive idea.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 22 mai 2010 - 10:05 .

[Costin_Razvan]

If you made Loghain king you would be executed. Thats the whole point of the Landsmeet. If he wins and becomes regent/king, he immediately orders your execution.

But not before beating him in a duel. As David Gaider put regarding beating Loghain: "At that point you earned his respect, and he sees in you another person who can save Fereldan other then himself."

I would have to disagree with that. Loghain makes a terrible King really. He simply thinks like a general and when he has the opportunity to listen to Anora he refuses. Anora is the one who can rule. If you want to keep Loghain somehow in power it would be a lot better to have Anora as queen and Loghain as her general/counselor.

Arguable. I for one think Loghain did a good job with the civil war ( he had all but won it ). The ones who stood against him either thought he let Cailan die and wanted him dead for it ( like Teagan ) or simply had their own ambitions. I consider the latter opportunists, and the former idiots. Eamon is a combination of both in my eyes.

Loghain's biggest mistake was that he relied too much on Howe. replace Howe with Anora and you have a strong leadership. Since he will let her make most decisions regarding economy and such, while only overruling her on military ones. ( Or so I got the impression after speaking with him ).

He only refused to ask Orlais for help, as Anora suggested. And I agree with him, unlike Anora who is too lax regarding Orlais. Better to be paranoid then lax when dealing with Celene, I think.

Just like Alistair ( especially unhardened ) who needs a good Advisor, so does Loghain, and both admit that.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mai 2010 - 10:09 .

[sylvanaerie]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

If you made Loghain king you would be executed. Thats the whole point of the Landsmeet. If he wins and becomes regent/king, he immediately orders your execution.

But not before beating him in a duel. As David Gaider put regarding beating Loghain: "At that point you earned his respect, and he sees in you another person who can save Fereldan other then himself."

I would have to disagree with that. Loghain makes a terrible King really. He simply thinks like a general and when he has the opportunity to listen to Anora he refuses. Anora is the one who can rule. If you want to keep Loghain somehow in power it would be a lot better to have Anora as queen and Loghain as her general/counselor.

Arguable. I for one think Loghain did a good job with the civil war ( he had all but won it ). The ones who stood against him either thought he let Cailan die and wanted him dead for it ( like Teagan ) or simply had their own ambitions. I consider the latter opportunists, and the former idiots. Eamon is a combination of both in my eyes.

Loghain's biggest mistake was that he relied too much on Howe. replace Howe with Anora and you have a strong leadership. Since he will let her make most decisions regarding economy and such, while only overruling her on military ones. ( Or so I got the impression after speaking with him ).

He only refused to ask Orlais for help, as Anora suggested. And I agree with him, unlike Anora who is too lax regarding Orlais. Better to be paranoid then lax when dealing with Celene, I think.

Just like Alistair ( especially unhardened ) who needs a good Advisor, so does Loghain, and both admit that.

Actually if he wins the vote at the Landsmeet becoming regent he immediately orders the execution of PC, Alistair and Eamon.  This is what prompts the free for all (DAMN that was a fun Landsmeet) and THEN the duel happens when they call for a cease. 

[Costin_Razvan]

As I said. IF you win the duel against him, not before.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mai 2010 - 10:13 .

[phaonica]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...


Agreed, Loghain is not King material.

Could he be with a Warden Queen? 

[Costin_Razvan]

Could he be with a Warden Queen?

I might a temptation to write a fan fiction about that....

[sylvanaerie]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

As I said. IF you win the duel against him, not before.

Must be a language barrier because he orders the execution before the duel.  Not after.

[Xandurpein]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Arguable. I for one think Loghain did a good job with the civil war ( he had all but won it ). The ones who stood against him either thought he let Cailan die and wanted him dead for it ( like Teagan ) or simply had their own ambitions. I consider the latter opportunists, and the former idiots. Eamon is a combination of both in my eyes.

It was Loghain's heavy handed treatment of the nobles when he made his claim to be regent that started the civil war. This is typical of a general who tries to be politician. He tries to beat the nobility into submission instread of making alliances.

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Loghain's biggest mistake was that he relied too much on Howe. replace Howe with Anora and you have a strong leadership. Since he will let her make most decisions regarding economy and such, while only overruling her on military ones. ( Or so I got the impression after speaking with him ).

The military should be there to serve politics, not the other way around, in my opinion. Loghain is not a diplomat and war heroes seldom make good kings.

[phaonica]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Could he be with a Warden Queen?

I might a temptation to write a fan fiction about that....

My mod is my fanfiction, hehe.

[Costin_Razvan]

.....you don't get it.



I was referring to the fact he comes to respect you after you win the duel against him.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

As I said. IF you win the duel against him, not before.

Oh, so you make the person you just defeated in front of everyone king?
That doesn't make any sense.

If he loses the landsmeet / duel, then your PC demonstrated that Loghain should not be regent, let alone King.

[Sarah1281]

Yeah, but if he calls for your execution not ten minutes before why on earth would you think making him king is a good idea so he can legitimately call for it again?

[Sarah1281]

Costin, I think to do what you want you'd need to meet with him prior to the Landsmeet and work out a deal with him.

[HarlequinDream]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

As I said. IF you win the duel against him, not before.

Oh, so you make the person you just defeated in front of everyone king?
That doesn't make any sense.

If he loses the landsmeet / duel, then your PC demonstrated that Loghain should not be regent, let alone King.

I think someone missed that the whole point of the Landsmeet was telling all of the nobles gathered why exactly Loghain was unfit for the position he was holding. (Not you, Knight.)

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Costin_Razvan wrote...

As I said. IF you win the duel against him, not before.

Oh, so you make the person you just defeated in front of everyone king?
That doesn't make any sense.

If he loses the landsmeet / duel, then your PC demonstrated that Loghain should not be regent, let alone King.

Indeed. Things have really gone to far, by that time. The Landsmeet and the duel is about if Loghain should be confirmed as regent or not. You are in the opposite team.

Now if the game had allowed you to approach Loghain, before the Landsmeet and try to make a deal with him, then technically it might be feasible, but the problem is then still how to convince him.

As backwards as it may seem, the only way to gain Loghain's trust is to prove that he is not fit to rule. Which maybe indicates that you are doing him a favor by getting him off the throne.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 22 mai 2010 - 10:29 .

[Costin_Razvan]

As backwards as it may seem, the only way to gain Loghain's trust is to prove that he is not fit to rule. Which maybe indicates that you are doing him a favor by getting him off the throne.

Actually, to gain Loghain's trust you need to show you care enough and have enough strength to save Fereldan.

Now if the game had allowed you to approach Loghain, before the Landsmeet and try to make a deal with him, then technically it might be feasible.

I agree fully. It simply would not work considering you don't have a chance to talk with him before it.

I wish you could though. Would be a hell of a plot twist. I think though, that if you do not show the evidence regarding the elven slaves, then Landsmeet would not be so strongly against it.

The way I see the Landsmeet is that only Wulf stands against Loghain because he does not think he is fit to rule, the others do so for personal reasons. Out of them you could probably easily convince the rest that it was a good choice to make Loghain without much fuss.

The Bann of Drakon's peak would take some convincing if you saved his son, but you could just point out Howe did it alone, and not with Loghain's approval ( which I think is the case, given that Dragon's Peak by default supports Loghain ). The Bann of Waking Sea would probably be the hardest to convince, since her brother IS taken by Loghain himself, but in the end she is one of the more reasonable people out of the room.

Modifié par Costin_Razvan, 22 mai 2010 - 10:58 .

[Sarah1281]

A lot of people don't trust her because one dialogue choice at Howe's estate has her promise to support you no matter what and if you tell her that you're going with Alistair then she says she's okay with it but unless you promise to support her she supports Loghain even though she insists he needs to be stopped.