130 réponses à ce sujet

[Xandurpein]

Sarah1281 wrote...

No and that's why there are so many HNF players who don't choose to go that route because they expected a dialogue at some point but there's just Alistair breaking it off. If he knows he can take the thone regardless, he won't marry someone he is not capable of having children with and you know what they say about two Wardens.

So... is this hardened or unhardened Alistair or both? I mean, I can't see how you can force hardened Alistair into marrying him at gun point and then still have him in love with you? It really seems weird at least.

[Costin_Razvan]

I am not sure how to take the whole Alistair marriage thing...



Out of curiosity Tirigon, what happened to our dear Alistair?

[Xandurpein]

If what I understand from this is correct, then a Cousland marrying Anora is very civilized compared to Cousland marrying Alistair...

[Costin_Razvan]

If I was disturbed by the Alistair fangirls before, then now I am just freaking out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

it will not unite all the factions of Ferelden in the same way as Alistair/Anora can.

And have a ruling duo that will not be happy with each other. As Knight pointed out, Alistair/Anora is a recipe for disaster since she clearly loves Loghain and he utterly despises him.

To be precise, I said it's a recipe for disaster IF the Monarchs can't get along. Them getting along is unlikely or would necessitate a lot of time.

But yes, I do not believe the Anora / Alistair couple to be a great idea. It provides great short term benefits. But I can expect long term problems with this.  

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 23 mai 2010 - 12:16 .

[Sarah1281]

I haven't done it as a political marriage but if he loves you then he asks if you're sure about this and how it won't be easy because of the heir issue. If you assure him that you do want to marry him and the heir thing won't be for lack of trying he's happy either way but unhardened Alistair doesn't like the thought of you having someone else's kid while I think hardened Alistair is willing to go along with it.



It's not like you're technically forcing it on him because you just have to persuade everyone and Alistair to do it and if you don't pass the persuade check then he refuses (lack of coercion if you're not in love/he hates you). You kind of just spring it on him unexpectedly like you can spring marriage on Anora as a HNM or inform Alistair and Anora you're marrying them to each other. It's certainly not the nicest way to go about doing things but he does have a say in it.

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

I still think it's more of a choice you have to make, and just somewhat clumsily implemented. I have to admit I have never played HNF, but I was assuming that you made a deal with Alistair before the Landsmeet to marry him. Are all those HNF marrying alistair just forcing him at gun point?

Forcing him at gunpoint?  LOL

The decision about the ruler's marriage is a political one, not a sentimental one.  Alistair will stay with his Warden lover regardless of circumstances unless he believes that duty overrides it.  The Persuade in the Landsmeet is to persuade the nobility as well as Alistair.  That's why it's in the LM.  Alistair reacts to it, but he reacts based on what he sees as the likelihood of it being a politically acceptable match, as well as his personal feelings (if he is very hostile he won't do it).

You can talk about marriage with Alistair before the LM, but neither of you know what is going to happen so all there is to say is "I don't know what it will mean."  There probably should have been an option for the HNF and Alistair to agree to marry after the LM, but as I said, it's a political and public decision.  The consort of the king is not something he can just choose at will.

[Costin_Razvan]

It's not like you're technically forcing it on him....

Oh, but you DO force it upon him. It's why Alistair is so popular among the females, because he will bend over to your whim.

[Sarah1281]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

It's not like you're technically forcing it on him....

Oh, but you DO force it upon him. It's why Alistair is so popular among the females, because he will bend over to your whim.

You back him into a corner, yes, but since if he hates you he says no then he does have that option. And a lot of the Alistair fangirls see him as much stronger than you do regardless of which one is closer in line with the actual character so I don't really think that's the appeal.

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

If what I understand from this is correct, then a Cousland marrying Anora is very civilized compared to Cousland marrying Alistair...

How so?  The Cousland marriage to the ruler is a political match.  It may also be a love match, but foremost it has to be a political one.  The difference with Alistair-HNF versus Anora-HNM is that it can be a love match before the wedding versus the HNM-Anora who barely know each other.  That is uncivilized??

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Xandurpein wrote...

If what I understand from this is correct, then a Cousland marrying Anora is very civilized compared to Cousland marrying Alistair...

It is one of the reasons I have no Queen playthroughs, nor am I planning on them.

[Costin_Razvan]

By just shoving that decision in front him, yes it is. With Anora at the very least you can talk about it beforehand and decide the matter.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

By just shoving that decision in front him, yes it is. With Anora at the very least you can talk about it beforehand and decide the matter.

Because you start out at zero footing with Anora.  With Alistair, your relationship is long established, be it friendly or romantic.  I don't see the difference.

Regardless, your comments about other players are typically insulting.

[Sarah1281]

Announcing yourself as Queen.
Alistair confronting you about it.

Judge for yourself.

[Costin_Razvan]

Regardless, your comments about other players are typically insulting.

My comments are as they are for people who are too narrow minded to accept sparring Loghain as even a possibility, like you do. ( and have, quite loudly in fact, said that's its beyond stupid to spare him )

[Tirigon]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

I am not sure how to take the whole Alistair marriage thing...

Out of curiosity Tirigon, what happened to our dear Alistair?

Well, in my case my noble girl told him all the time - already in camp - that he would be king, and that she would stay with him, so he was prepared. As soon as you could propose to marry - that´s before the landsmeet - I did so, and then confirmed it in the landsmeet.

In the end, we traveled Ferelden and everyone loved us. It was quite clicheed actually.

[Addai]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Regardless, your comments about other players are typically insulting.

My comments are as they are for people who are too narrow minded to accept sparring Loghain as even a possibility, like you do. ( and have, quite loudly in fact, said that's its beyond stupid to spare him )

I have my opinions about the game, but I don't try to play junior psychologist about why people make certain game choices.

You can view the Alistair-HNF relationship in different ways, just as you can the Anora-HNM.  The game gives you that flexibility.  For me the latter would never be appealing, but my husband occasionally likes to pop on the forum to argue differently and I know other players see it as a marriage of compatibility.  To each his own.

[Addai]

Sarah1281 wrote...

Announcing yourself as Queen.
Alistair confronting you about it.

Judge for yourself.

A lot of it depends on how you've roleplayed the relationship to Alistair.  If you've told him in dialogue before that you are going to stay with him no matter what, even after you know that he's going to be king, then you can view his surprised reaction as not believing that it's actually turning out this way rather than some other disastrous outcome ("this is when I usually wake up...").  He tends to take the pessimistic view until he sees proof otherwise.

Regardless, it's a Persuade check, not an Intimidate for Maker's sake.  He can say no.  If that's "forcing" him, then you're forcing Anora to marry you when you twist her arm at Eamon's estate, offering your support for her throne in exchange for a marriage.

[Sarah1281]

I don't think you're forcing her but you are pressuring her because she wants your support with no strings attached but you won't give it without strings. She does agree because she would like your help and it does strengthen her case to have you since she and Alistair are viewed as about equal alone.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Addai67 wrote...

Regardless, it's a Persuade check, not an Intimidate for Maker's sake.  He can say no.  If that's "forcing" him, then you're forcing Anora to marry you when you twist her arm at Eamon's estate, offering your support for her throne in exchange for a marriage.

It's more like a bilateral arrangement or transaction. Both benefit. Male Cousland can't become King without Anora, and Anora has a low chance to become Queen without his support.

So it's not really forcing. It's just a political arrangement, at that precise moment.

[Addai]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Regardless, it's a Persuade check, not an Intimidate for Maker's sake.  He can say no.  If that's "forcing" him, then you're forcing Anora to marry you when you twist her arm at Eamon's estate, offering your support for her throne in exchange for a marriage.

It's more like a bilateral arrangement or transaction. Both benefit. Male Cousland can't become King without Anora, and Anora has a low chance to become Queen without his support.

So it's not really forcing. It's just a political arrangement, at that precise moment.

I don't really think you are twisting Anora's arm.  I see it much as you see it.  I mean, I'm sure some can play it that way if they want.  My point is that putting the HNF-Alistair marriage in the dimmest possible light can go both ways.

[Xandurpein]

Let me first say that I do apologize if anyone felt I was being rude to those of you who play a HNF marrying Alistair out of love. I was really just asking questions out of ignorance, I did not mean to make any statements.

I had always assumed that marrying Alistair was something you agreed upon in advance, not sprang upon him at the Landsmeet. It still feels very wierd to me that it's done that way, but I'll not pass any judgement on how anyone roleplay this.

To my knowledge you can't spring things upon Anora. You have to make an agreement with her first to be able to even have the option to porpose that you and Anora should marry at the Landsmeet. But please correct me if I'm wrong.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 23 mai 2010 - 07:36 .

[Xandurpein]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Regardless, it's a Persuade check, not an Intimidate for Maker's sake.  He can say no.  If that's "forcing" him, then you're forcing Anora to marry you when you twist her arm at Eamon's estate, offering your support for her throne in exchange for a marriage.

It's more like a bilateral arrangement or transaction. Both benefit. Male Cousland can't become King without Anora, and Anora has a low chance to become Queen without his support.

So it's not really forcing. It's just a political arrangement, at that precise moment.

Think of it as a business transaction. The two of you agrees to fusion your companies. Would she prefer that you just gave her your company? sure! Does this mean that the fusion is forced on her? not really.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 23 mai 2010 - 07:37 .

[asaiasai]

I just finished a play through today that of 17 completed plays was my first start to completion MALE character which went the MHN marries Anora. As far as can Anora be trusted, i think she can be trusted about as much as you can trust anyone else. Understand thier motivations and you understand the person, not trying to get all psycho-babbly. Anora wants to remain Queen, she is willing to marry a strong king which by the time the landsmeet rolls around you should have proven yourself several times over. I honestly think that Anora is the type of woman who if her King is wise and seeks her council can turn Feraldin around to the point that Orlais could be swearing fealty to Feraldin.

This was my first male character and i played him a bit on the pragmatic side, i myself ordered Allistair's execution to remove one threat to stability of the kingdom. I asked for no boon at the end figuring King was good enough and as i RPed it my character was not in love with Anora but was well on his way as i think Anora was as well. My Cousland does and will continue to measure up to dear old departed daddy (whom i fed to the AD, another stability move). Anora for all her bad rap is not as bad as she is made out to be, i think alot of that stems from other choices, competition mostly, and in reality IS a better choice to rule Feraldin long term than Allistair. I will say that i would have liked to have heard something from Eamon about my Cousland becoming king, "nice coup", something, all i got was a serious cold shoulder. Considering i fed Isolde to Jowan for the ritual to save Connor, then ordered Jowan's execution, he probably just wanted to cut his losses, for the most part i do not feel i will be welcome to just pop by Redcliffe for a chat lol.
 
When i usually play i get Allistair and Anora to marry as this i think is probably the best short term solution, and since defeating the blight is the most important thing to do RIGHT NOW, it seems prudent. All of my other characters are female and usually in the end run off with Leliana so since i get my troops for the blight, who rules really makes no difference since i do not plan on sticking around anyway. 

I really like the fact that after 17 plays now i can still find something different in the game, but having the ability to be a total dick,  not that i will excercise those options everytime they are avaliable is what really seperates this game from alot of the others out there. That and the interesting debates the game decisions can stir. 

Asai

Modifié par asaiasai, 23 mai 2010 - 08:46 .

[Xandurpein]

I suppose that as far as a Cousland, whether male or female, who wants the throne is concerened, then the bottom line is this: The meek shall not inherit the earth. At least not Ferelden.