Explain how the collectors with one ship are going to destroy the entire alliance fleet and hit earth for people to melt. If they can do that we would have already lost, unless you think the Normandy is some magical vessel that is superior to the rest of the alliance fleet combined? If that is the case you are just delusional, not even a Reaper is a match for the combined forces of the alliance fleet, and if you do think it is that good then we have already won the battle against the Reapers by just making more models of the Normandy.
So something that didn't actually happen is a plot hole?
I managed to make it through all of the videos. You make some good points Smudboy, and a lot of your points had occurred to me as well. I still like the game a lot, mainly because even though Shepard is a blank slate, the squad members are interesting characters. If Samara, Miranda, Mordin and Thane had been absent, the game would not have been very entertaining, in my opinion.
I hope BioWare focuses more on story and plot in ME3, because even though ME2 is a fun game and really good in a lot of ways, the plot is not where it shines. I think the developers focused on gameplay, graphics, and combat, and the overarching story suffered as a result. I don't think ME2 is unique in this regard, or even one of the more egregious offenders out there, but it definitely has some 'splainin' to do in ME3. In the grand scheme of things though, it's still a great game if you don't think too hard about the logic of certain events.
Most people here think pointing out every single flaw possible will change something, but instead they'll just be ignored even more.
Because of that, they don't see a need to visit the forums - there aren't any good ideas that come out of it anyway, just arguments. They'll write the game by themselves. They're the writers, not us.
It's still very cliché, though. Superhero vs. villain. If someone were to make a movie out of that (and now they are!), people would complain about how it's "just another superhero story in space".
Too bad the villian in this segment is flat. Harbringer has no charisma. Even fighting him isn't a challenge gameplay wise.
A lot of people also like to vent regardless of what happens. Only the most arrogant people think that somehow their idea will be something that bioware takes seriously. It's perfectly fine to vent if you have problems with a product. It's not like bioware didn't listen to fans before like having humans having relationships with aliens other than asari (who the writers did a decent job in explaining whyi. Personally I think that was a mistake (doing something out of popular demand rather than just persue their creative vision), but thats just me.
-Legion furthered the story of the geth and made you feel sympathy for them, as well as illustrated the inside of a hollowed-out Reaper and a geth fortress.
-Mordin furthered the story of the genophage and went over the ethical issues of sterilizing them, as well further personifying Salarians.
-Thane introduced an entirely new race (Drell), who helped you learn more about them as well as the Hanar.
-Miranda, Jacob and EDI had you learn more about the Alliance and Cerberus, and how Cerberus is capable of doing good things for humanity - even when other sects of their group can get into some really shady stuff.
-Tali furthered the story of the Quarians and their political in-fighting amongst themselves over whether they should go to war with the geth.
-Zaeed put a face and personality on a mercenary group he was once a part of, making you realize that not all the enemies you fight are bad apples.
-Kasumi and Jack were the first characters to go into detail about their previous relationships (and not just Shepard's relationships), helping Shepard realize that he's not the only one suffering from the loss (or separation) of loved ones. Kasumi's data may also have unforeseen consequences to the Alliance.
-Jack also gave you the other side of Cerberus (it's fun to bring Miranda of Jacob to her loyalty mission) and they didn't just make the Cerberus experiments a side mission, but made her the experiment.
-Samara/Morinth expanded upon the asari social structure and their reliance on Justicars.
Yes but at the end of the day they're just personal stories and for most of the missions the scope is still smaller. Sure they expand the universe and the codex but they also take away from the sense of urgency. They could have easily connected a lot of these loyalty missions deeper to the main plot. I guess my tastes are an expansive story with little tidbits to flesh out the universe rather than the reverse that ME2 does.
-The Collectors illustrated the true fate of the Protheans and continued the Reaper plot, explaining why they need the galactic races to survive instead of just wiping them out.
This only explains the fate of some protheans, the true fate for the vast majority were explained in ME1. All the collectors did was put a face on that race, which might not even be the true face considering how modified they were.
As I described above, ME2 has many well-written stories and characters aside from the main plot. It expands upon almost all the races and storylines from ME1.
It feels like people are forgetting all the storylines set up in the beginning, skipping all the dialogue in ME2, and just going straight to shooting stuff -- and then going onto the forums to complain that it was just a pointless shooter.
I'm not saying ME2 doesn't have nice stories. They do. I'm also not saying that these stories don't expand the lore of the ME universe. They do. I'm saying the majority of these stories distract from the main story.
Mass Effect 1 becomes a pointless shooter if they treat it in that simplistic fashion (and without any objectivity) as well. Just listen to Sovereign's speech on Virmire and realize how much of it was actual just intimidation or bragging:
Only a few lines give any indication as to why they need organic species. Harbinger also only has a few useful lines, but also explains why they don't want some of them.
By the final battle, you have EDI speculating on what they're doing to build a Reaper instead of just destroying Saren and a Reaper with more 'splosions. At least Vigil had a lot of dialogue about the Citadel and why Saren did what he did, but not much information on a Reaper's true intentions.
Thats great they answered some questions. Thats to be expected. They could have answered those questions any number of ways rather than resolve your teammates daddy issues (using the OP's words). It's also to be expected in the first part of a story would leave a lot of questions unanswered or ambigious. Pointing out how ME2 answers questions in ME1 is silly. Some people think some of those answers to ME1 questions is retarded and complain. Hey thats their right. Personally I'll reserve judgement until I see how ME3 plays out.
Considering most of the same writers are writing for each game in the trilogy, complaining about how the plot in one part is terrible is a lot like complaining about novelist because the middle chapters of the book you were reading didn't seem to have a beginning or an end to it.
If someone is complaining about one part of the book, they're basically complaining about all of it.
Pretty much. How many times have you watched the movie and thought wow this is fantastic, but by the time the middle comes you start to feel let down. Plenty in my experience. Now if the last third is good, I'm willing to overlook the middle part. If not, then I'll just say to myself that the movie had a great beginning and fell on its face.
Very entertaining videos there, smudboy. Quite a few of those plot holes and/or inconsistencies in the story were very apparent to me on my initial playthrough of the game. I did have to pause and scratch my head in bewilderment at various points because of it. Unfortunately, it drew me out of the flow of the game and I started to tune out most of the dialogue and the manipulative plot machinations as I progressed. It was too contrived and I resented the reduction of my characters role to that of a simple puppet. It was especially jarring because of the fact that TIM took on the role of puppeteer and I was compelled to serve the interests of Cerberus without choice.
Another unfortunate result was that I resented and actively disliked most of the squad that I was compelled to recruit. I despised Miranda almost immediately and did my best to ignore the rest. Other than Garrus, Tali, Zaeed and recently Kasumi, most of the rest of the squad bug the hell out of me for various reasons. That's a different discussion that I won't go into in this thread, but suffice it to say that it was directly related to the way in which ME2 felt too manipulative for me.
Having stated that I dislike so many essential elements of the story/plot and the cast of characters, it's still one of my favorite games to play. I've done 12+ complete runs through the game because the combat and some of the levels/missions are so much damn fun. There's so much good value in the package as a whole, that it's almost guaranteed that I'll buy the latest DLC and give it another go, every time. If that makes me EA/BioWare's b!tch, so be it.
Too bad the villian in this segment is flat. Harbringer has no charisma. Even fighting him isn't a challenge gameplay wise.
And this harms the plot how?
Shepard fights agains a mysterious force. Trying to create a compelling villain would just make more plot holes.
It was good to have Saren as the main antagonist in the first game. And it was damn awesome to know in the end that he wasn't the main antagonist, but just a puppet.
This "final boss" concept is good for arcades. Is it what you wanted of Mass Effect? To become an arcade? Well, it wasn't, yet, but that can certainly change in ME3, if all people want is more boss fights, combat platforming, and juicy explosions.
Most people here think pointing out every single flaw possible will change something, but instead they'll just be ignored even more.
Because of that, they don't see a need to visit the forums - there aren't any good ideas that come out of it anyway, just arguments. They'll write the game by themselves. They're the writers, not us.
It's still very cliché, though. Superhero vs. villain. If someone were to make a movie out of that (and now they are!), people would complain about how it's "just another superhero story in space".[/quote]
Too bad the villian in this segment is flat. Harbringer has no charisma. Even fighting him isn't a challenge gameplay wise.[/quote] Plot-wise? It's still superhero vs. villain in both games. Most people expect the charisma from the superhero.
Gameplay-wise? Harbinger appearing in the middle of a pack of Collectors was still more difficult than either Saren-Sovereign or the Human-Reaper (both of which require you to hit a moving target without actually needing to move).
[quote]A lot of people also like to vent regardless of what happens. Only the most arrogant people think that somehow their idea will be something that bioware takes seriously. It's perfectly fine to vent if you have problems with a product. It's not like bioware didn't listen to fans before like having humans having relationships with aliens other than asari (who the writers did a decent job in explaining whyi. Personally I think that was a mistake (doing something out of popular demand rather than just persue their creative vision), but thats just me.[/quote] "Popular demand" is including romances in the first place. Yet FOX News doesn't seem to be complaining anymore about alien love interests.
BioWare doesn't take many ideas seriously from the forums because there aren't many serious ideas. It's all "This part sucks, fix it" or "Why isn't this like the last one?". Neither of them consist of ideas.
[quote][quote]-Legion furthered the story of the geth and made you feel sympathy for them, as well as illustrated the inside of a hollowed-out Reaper and a geth fortress.
-Mordin furthered the story of the genophage and went over the ethical issues of sterilizing them, as well further personifying Salarians.
-Thane introduced an entirely new race (Drell), who helped you learn more about them as well as the Hanar.
-Miranda, Jacob and EDI had you learn more about the Alliance and Cerberus, and how Cerberus is capable of doing good things for humanity - even when other sects of their group can get into some really shady stuff.
-Tali furthered the story of the Quarians and their political in-fighting amongst themselves over whether they should go to war with the geth.
-Zaeed put a face and personality on a mercenary group he was once a part of, making you realize that not all the enemies you fight are bad apples.
-Kasumi and Jack were the first characters to go into detail about their previous relationships (and not just Shepard's relationships), helping Shepard realize that he's not the only one suffering from the loss (or separation) of loved ones. Kasumi's data may also have unforeseen consequences to the Alliance.
-Jack also gave you the other side of Cerberus (it's fun to bring Miranda of Jacob to her loyalty mission) and they didn't just make the Cerberus experiments a side mission, but made her the experiment.
-Samara/Morinth expanded upon the asari social structure and their reliance on Justicars.[/quote]
Yes but at the end of the day they're just personal stories and for most of the missions the scope is still smaller. Sure they expand the universe and the codex but they also take away from the sense of urgency. I guess my tastes are an expansive story with little tidbits to flesh out the universe rather than the reverse that ME2 does.[/quote] That's similar to saying that Saren is just a personal story, because his significance and influence is rather small in comparison to the actual Reaper fleet. Just because Saren wasn't a squadmate (like Loghain) doesn't mean he wasn't a personal failure story in itself.
The galaxy consists of more problems than just the "Reapers". If it didn't, then people would believe Shepard and have united the races to stop all of them in the first game.
[quote][quote]-The Collectors illustrated the true fate of the Protheans and continued the Reaper plot, explaining why they need the galactic races to survive instead of just wiping them out. [/quote]
This only explains the fate of some protheans, the true fate for the vast majority were explained in ME1. All the collectors did was put a face on that race, which might not even be the true face considering how modified they were.[/quote] That depends on whether there's a Prothean squadmate in ME3, then. Whether or not it's fully explained, someone will take offense to it saying "but the Collectors ARE all the Protheans" instead of saying "but the Collectors AREN'T all the Protheans".
[quote][quote]As I described above, ME2 has many well-written stories and characters aside from the main plot. It expands upon almost all the races and storylines from ME1.
It feels like people are forgetting all the storylines set up in the beginning, skipping all the dialogue in ME2, and just going straight to shooting stuff -- and then going onto the forums to complain that it was just a pointless shooter.[/quote]
I'm not saying ME2 doesn't have nice stories. They do. I'm also not saying that these stories don't expand the lore of the ME universe. They do. I'm saying the majority of these stories distract from the main story.[/quote] The lore is the main story. Or, to be even more technical, anything that happens to Shepard is the main story, whether it's relevant to the Reapers or not.
[quote][quote]Mass Effect 1 becomes a pointless shooter if they treat it in that simplistic fashion (and without any objectivity) as well. Just listen to Sovereign's speech on Virmire and realize how much of it was actual just intimidation or bragging:
Only a few lines give any indication as to why they need organic species. Harbinger also only has a few useful lines, but also explains why they don't want some of them.
By the final battle, you have EDI speculating on what they're doing to build a Reaper instead of just destroying Saren and a Reaper with more 'splosions. At least Vigil had a lot of dialogue about the Citadel and why Saren did what he did, but not much information on a Reaper's true intentions.[/quote]
Thats great they answered some questions. Thats to be expected. They could have answered those questions any number of ways rather than resolve your teammates daddy issues (using the OP's words). It's also to be expected in the first part of a story would leave a lot of questions unanswered or ambigious. Pointing out how ME2 answers questions in ME1 is silly. Some people think some of those answers to ME1 questions is retarded and complain. Hey thats their right. Personally I'll reserve judgement until I see how ME3 plays out.[/quote] You spend just as much time solving the questions in ME1 with the main plot, actually. I tabulated it in another post (I'll try to find it), but most of the main plot missions in ME2 are just as long - if not longer - than ME1's. And that's excluding all the loyalty missions and most of the recruitment missions.
[quote][quote]Considering most of the same writers are writing for each game in the trilogy, complaining about how the plot in one part is terrible is a lot like complaining about novelist because the middle chapters of the book you were reading didn't seem to have a beginning or an end to it.
If someone is complaining about one part of the book, they're basically complaining about all of it.[/quote]
Pretty much. How many times have you watched the movie and thought wow this is fantastic, but by the time the middle comes you start to feel let down. Plenty in my experience. Now if the last third is good, I'm willing to overlook the middle part. If not, then I'll just say to myself that the movie had a great beginning and fell on its face.[/quote] Most producers do not switch writers and direction halfway through making a movie, however. Nor will critics give a novel or movie a score based on its parts - but the sum of its parts.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
I think Mass Effect 2 is incredibly dissappointing... but look at what it frees up for Mass Effect 3.
Not only is the engine down, all or a vast majority of recruitment missions are done, the Normandy is upgraded and decked out (depending on your choices), you've forged alliances and ultimately allowed Mass Effect 3 to have no necessary detractions from the reaper threat.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
Since I've a bias toward anything glacier-dono writes, your response is dismissed.
But yes, 1) Discover threat, 2) Learn to stop threat, 3) Struggle stopping the threat. Recruitment (especially this size) has nothing to do with anything. Even Tali's trial was just a suggestion toward war. That Klendagon rift that was caused by the weapon that Cerberus discovered: that should've been about something, something Jacob might've been researching.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
That is a succinct, clear, concise summation and I agree.
If you choose to destroy the Collector Base, so as not to "sacrifice the soul of our species", you've limited your options for gaining the knowledge that you need. We're essentially in the same position as we were at the end of Mass Effect. We do have an upgraded Normandy and a squad of so-called 'badasses' to back us up, but what's the fuggin' plan? What's the strategy, tactic or technology that's going to enable us to succeed in defeating the Reapers?
If you hand the base over to TIM/Cerberus, you have to take it on faith that he will provide you with the answers or technology that's required for you to deal with the threat. And, oh by the way, will he use the knowledge to further his own ends and leave the other aliens species to fend for themselves? It seems apparent to me that TIM would not hesitate for a moment to backstab your allies and consolidate as much power into his own hands as he can get away with. Talk about a deal with the Devil, signed with the blood of your friends and allies.
Either way, I guess we'll find out in ME3. *shrug*
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3.
Agreed.
Well that is, as far as I am concerned, the wrong answer. To be exact its the right answer at the wrong time. If we find technology in ME3 then what happens is that somehow within the confines of that game it will have to be researched, prototyped, mass produced and then fitted to whatever it will go onto. Now it can be said that we dont have to do all that if its powerful enough but we do have the problem that if whatever it is fails we won't get a second chance. After all if we lose we lose everything. So unless ME3 is going to cover a LONG time period of say at least a few years from end to beginning (and not like it was portrayed in ME2 either) there won't be the time within the game to do that without detracting from the believability of the game.
Of course the other possibility is that somehow DARK ENERGY and the collasping star we hear about might be the weapon. Yet all that can produce for us is a BFB (big f****** bomb - if I need to refer to this in future posts I'll just use BFB). There are issues with that in so far as since there exists faster than light drive systems and the devastation front of the exploding star does NOT travel at the speed of light unless you managed to get the Reapers in VERY CLOSE to the star a lot of them will simply outrun the destruction. It will also mean that they will not fall for the same trick again. So the idea looks good but on closer examination it just does not work in practice.
I am not saying it could not be done within ME3 but that it would need a degree of writting better than has been displayed in ME2. It would have to be almost perfect and my faith in that being possible with the people we have been told are there working on ME3 does not bode well for that to happen. In a way the acid test for what we can perhaps expect to see is the new OVERLORD DLC. This is something new that should have had the early feedback from all of us incorporated into it. If it turns out to be a dud in terms of story (and of course fixing the concerns we had with the tissue paper HammerHead) then I would say that we cannot expect anything better in ME3.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
Since I've a bias toward anything glacier-dono writes, your response is dismissed.
But yes, 1) Discover threat, 2) Learn to stop threat, 3) Struggle stopping the threat. Recruitment (especially this size) has nothing to do with anything. Even Tali's trial was just a suggestion toward war. That Klendagon rift that was caused by the weapon that Cerberus discovered: that should've been about something, something Jacob might've been researching.
Coincidentally, this thread is the kind of feedback/response that BioWare dismisses as well.
IoCaster wrote...
If you choose to destroy the Collector Base, so as not to "sacrifice the soul of our species", you've limited your options for gaining the knowledge that you need. We're essentially in the same position as we were at the end of Mass Effect. We do have an upgraded Normandy and a squad of so-called 'badasses' to back us up, but what's the fuggin' plan? What's the strategy, tactic or technology that's going to enable us to succeed in defeating the Reapers?
I thought it was implied that Shepard obtained the Reaper schematic from the Collector Homeworld at the end?
I thought it was implied that Shepard obtained the Reaper schematic from the Collector Homeworld at the end?
If you would be kind enough to extrapolate from this point, I'm all ears. Since it appears that the vast fleet of Reapers have different configurations, I'm not precisely sure how a single schematic for any one particular Reaper would be sufficient. Perhaps, they all share an equal vulnerability to a specific type of attack, but what sort of weapon do we possess that's capable of doing damage across a broad front? An immense and oversized Arc Projector? Maybe a self propagating viral attack that could overwhelm their defensive firewalls. That's been done before and I would be extremely disappointed with BioWare if they went down that well-trodden path. Anyway, tell me what you're thinking here. I'm open to whatever ideas you might have along this line.
The problem with ME2, in my opinion, is that it is the wrong story right from the start. It should have been about finding technology with which to combat the Reapers. That is not what we got. Most of what we did get about the Reapers was about how everyone was NOT dealing with the problem including Cerberus. The main thrust of the game though, was about getting together a bunch of people and dealing with their personal issues while ignoring, as much as possible, the threat we were told was the one we needed to deal with. It was only at the end that we perhaps get something handed to us that MIGHT have information on the Reapers. About all that that does is set us up for some magical device to be pulled out of nowhere with which Shepard can somehow defeat the Reapers. We'll be told that the game is 'epic' but considering how things have played out so far I would not be disappointed if ME3 was lackluster in how it dealt with the Reaper threat.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
If this turns out to be the case, then I gotta say the overall pacing of this story is really, really, terrible.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
If this turns out to be the case, then I gotta say the overall pacing of this story is really, really, terrible.
The pacing would be even worse if it were the other way around, no?
Mass Effect 2: Ok, so we have everything we need to destroy the Reapers!
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
If this turns out to be the case, then I gotta say the overall pacing of this story is really, really, terrible.
The pacing would be even worse if it were the other way around, no?
Mass Effect 2: Ok, so we have everything we need to destroy the Reapers!
"THE END"
Not sure how you measure pacing by the end scene. As myself and my colleagues above have stated, ME2 should've been about learning about the Reapers and how to stop them, because that's the plot of the trilogy. Not a proxy battle. ME3 should be about stopping them. The twelve colleagues you love so much mean zip and diddily to that, since they were all gained for a Suicide Mission.
At the ending scene, imagine that instead of holding a PADD, Shepard's hohlding the firing controls/weapon/key to his (potential) victory, as a Reaper fleet comes into range.
Not sure how you measure pacing by the end scene. As myself and my colleagues above have stated, ME2 should've been about learning about the Reapers and how to stop them, because that's the plot of the trilogy. Not a proxy battle. ME3 should be about stopping them. The twelve colleagues you love so much mean zip and diddily to that, since they were all gained for a Suicide Mission.
At the ending scene, imagine that instead of holding a PADD, Shepard's hohlding the firing controls/weapon/key to his (potential) victory, as a Reaper fleet comes into range.
I couldn't possibly care less about the individual treatment of the 17 squadmates in both ME1 and ME2, and I would get them all killed if it were possible without Shepard dying.
What does matter, however, is how their own stories further develop the multiple storylines started in Mass Effect 1 - and not just the Reapers. Dragon Age tried to do this within one game and the game ended with an "epic" epilogue consisting of text boxes describing what happened after (and a rushed expansion as well). That was after a one hour quest to reach the Archdemon after going around Ferelden recruiting people and solving their problems in order to gain their support (sound familiar?).
Shepard could very well be holding the key to his potential victory in that schematic already, and Mass Effect 3 can be that one hour Archdemon quest expanded to a galactic Reaper fleet mission.
Finding technology to defeat the Reapers sounds more like the main plot (and goal) of Mass Effect 3. BioWare's writers have already spent 2 games scattering different planets around the galaxy with mysterious information about former technologically advanced races. Since we're probably not going to be able to recruit anyone from those sites, it's better to get the recruitment out of the way now.
Doing a recruitment drive for squadmates in Mass Effect 3 sounds redundant when Shepard is going to need more than a "really good team" to stop an entire fleet of Reapers coming out of nowhere.
If this turns out to be the case, then I gotta say the overall pacing of this story is really, really, terrible.
The pacing would be even worse if it were the other way around, no?
Mass Effect 2: Ok, so we have everything we need to destroy the Reapers!
"THE END"
Nah, better pacing would be:
ME 1 "There's a galactic threat out there that's out to kill us all. Fortunately I've bought us some time t find a way to deal with it"
ME 2: "Okay, we gotta spend our borrowed time wisely and find out absolutely everything we can about the Reapers and see if we can find a weakness. Uncovering potential allies and enemies would be handy to"
ME 3 "WE've spent our time wisely (or not) Now to assemble what we've learned, gather the alies we've made, and finally CRY HAVOC!!"
Instead we've got:
ME 1 "There's a galactic threat out there that's out to kill us all. Fortunately I've bought us some time t find a way to deal with it"
ME 2 "I'm back from two years being dead and we've accomplshed HOW much? Okay I guess I gotta do it myself then. No? You need me for someting else? Uh huh, Jack needs me to blow up a Cerberus base. Okay, are there Collectors there? No? How about Cerberus personel? Blow up an empty base. Got it. Well, if it'll make her feel better... Okay, it's all good I guess. Just let me know when you need me to deal with the threat to all life in the galaxy, you got my number?"
ME 3 (speculated) "It's the weirdest thing, Commander. While you were off taking care of that Collector base, this wizard popped in from out of nowhere and gave me this datapad. Look at all this information about the Reapers it's got!"
Yeah, it's hyperbole for humerous effect. I know we dealt with issues regarding te genophage, the geth, the quarians, and the Council in the first two games. But the preperations made for the Reapers is stageringly little, and I fear a major info dump folowed by a deus ex machinia is gonna save everyone's bacon in the end.
Thanix cannon on every single, frigate, multiple of them on cruisers and dreadnoughts.... They were made from the reapers own weapon.... so theoretically, an barrage of two should be able to get thru in no time. Upgrade the shields on every warship, upgrade the armor. Not like Money is the issue when you got the entire galaxy on the line.
It's not like we're defenseless as people think. Technological advancements has been made in the time we were dead... so I would assume if you blew the base, and had made sure you gathered enough allies for the huge battle(s) to come, you should be fine.
Also, I highly doubt the data-pad was an single page of information on reapers on just one type of reaper. More than likely, it was merely an pointer towards - "yeah EDI data-mined the place while you were tearing it apart". So yes, I agree with Ecael on this point.
The proxy Enemy was mostly an excuse to get 12 people recruited for you, considering the fact that 70%-80% of the story is really just about them. If the squad-mates did not matter as much, they would not have taken 70-80% of the story.
Ecael wrote... What does matter, however, is how their own stories further develop the multiple storylines started in Mass Effect 1 - and not just the Reapers. Dragon Age tried to do this within one game and the game ended with an "epic" epilogue consisting of text boxes describing what happened after (and a rushed expansion as well). That was after a one hour quest to reach the Archdemon after going around Ferelden recruiting people and solving their problems in order to gain their support (sound familiar?).
Then you're interested in other stories, not the real story. A story should not be about other stories. A story can have multiple threads, but if those threads do not tie into the main story, then they are to be forgotten. Which, plot integral, nearly all of ME2 is.
Shepard could very well be holding the key to his potential victory in that schematic already, and Mass Effect 3 can be that one hour Archdemon quest expanded to a galactic Reaper fleet mission.
Bullocks. He's holding a translucent picture of a Reaperish-something. If ME2 was a grand struggle to assemble a weapon, and all we have is a picture of a something at the end, I might theorize that. ME2's deductions lead to nothing but dead ends and blank stares. (In my case, "wtf?") The premise of ME3 is now far beyond the realm of deductions, as the giant mess that was ME2, proceeding it is anyone's guess. You can exclude ME2 and still be in the same position for a sequel; except now there's more useless characters and "stuff." The only thing we can discern is if the same writing team who did ME2 is doing ME3, then we can expect more of the same.
ME 2: "Okay, we gotta spend our borrowed time wisely and find out absolutely everything we can about the Reapers and see if we can find a weakness. Uncovering potential allies and enemies would be handy to"
Yeah, it's hyperbole for humerous effect. I know we dealt with issues regarding te genophage, the geth, the quarians, and the Council in the first two games. But the preperations made for the Reapers is stageringly little, and I fear a major info dump folowed by a deus ex machinia is gonna save everyone's bacon in the end.
They did uncover "potential" allies and enemies. Cerberus, the geth, the krogan and the quarians. The genophage cure (or the destruction of it) could be used as a bargaining device for the salarians and turians, as well as the Reaper schematic to help prove their existence to the Council.
Shepard will soon have a Shadow Broker-like information network with Liara, and connections to the Alliance with Kaidan or Ashley.
If you're going to be surprised by a deus ex machina, then Mass Effect 1 and 2 should have disappointed you. Nothing would have been accomplished without Vigil's data file or without the Reaper IFF.
smudboy wrote...
Ecael wrote... What does matter, however, is how their own stories further develop the multiple storylines started in Mass Effect 1 - and not just the Reapers. Dragon Age tried to do this within one game and the game ended with an "epic" epilogue consisting of text boxes describing what happened after (and a rushed expansion as well). That was after a one hour quest to reach the Archdemon after going around Ferelden recruiting people and solving their problems in order to gain their support (sound familiar?).
Then you're interested in other stories, not the real story. A story should not be about other stories. A story can have multiple threads, but if those threads do not tie into the main story, then they are to be forgotten. Which, plot integral, nearly all of ME2 is.
As I mentioned above, the stories all have to do with the main story, because Shepard isn't the only one who's going to be fighting the Reapers.
Shepard could very well be holding the key to his potential victory in that schematic already, and Mass Effect 3 can be that one hour Archdemon quest expanded to a galactic Reaper fleet mission.
Bullocks. He's holding a translucent picture of a Reaperish-something. If ME2 was a grand struggle to assemble a weapon, and all we have is a picture of a something at the end, I might theorize that. ME2's deductions lead to nothing but dead ends and blank stares. (In my case, "wtf?") The premise of ME3 is now far beyond the realm of deductions, as the giant mess that was ME2, preceding it is anyone's guess. You can exclude ME2 and still be in the same position for a sequel. The only thing we can discern is if the same writing team who did ME2 is doing ME3, then we can expect more of the same.
You're assuming that datapads are only used for pictures. The schematic for a Reaper is the key to proving to the Council their existence and also researching what they're actually made of (and how to defeat them).
The same writing team who did ME1 did ME2 as well. Do you intend on criticizing the plot of both ME1 and ME2, or is your nostalgia preventing you from doing that?
You are wrong about the datapad Smud, there is no way to tell how much data is contained in the pad in total, all we saw is one page that was on display.
Saying that no other data can be in there is like saying that Shepard never eats, sleeps or bathes because we dont specifically see it. S/he also spends the entire five days of traveling to a nearby star system standing in front of the galaxy map and never moves, certainly Shepard does not use this time to relax, exercise, get to know and take part in recreational activities with the rest of the crew.
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