Zulu_DFA wrote...
Ecael wrote...
Gunship for ME3?Zulu_DFA wrote...
And this Hammerhead is just another example of a huge plot black hole. But not because of the writers' fault, but because of its design (Turbines in space, really? Non-rotational turret firing rockets from the upper side of a flying vehicle, really?), tech specifications (Engine freezes, really?), and gameplay parameters (Lives "just a sec" under fire, really? Stirs by the mouse, really?)
Space fighter.
Ecael wrote...
ME3 is good - Proves me right, proves the pessimists wrong
ME3 is bad - Proves me wrong and we all lose
SkullandBonesmember wrote...
foxstranger wrote...
The amount of negativity and pessimism toward Mass Effect 3 is also disturbing, and it also fosters a lot of arguments. I'm almost always going to take the side of BioWare and be optimistic about what they will produce. While others may have a different "opinion", these are the three options that can occur from this point on:
1. ME3 is released, is unanimously a great game to everyone, and I win this never-ending argument for being optimistic (and being correct).
2. ME3 is released, is "meh", the pessimists win, but the game is still bad with no ME4 in the works, so they actually lose.
3. ME3 is never released or is terrible - we all lose.
Umm. There's another possibility that ME3 will be just like ME2 where for most its "cool" to love it and many are content and then some with the game despite a good amount of the RPG fanbase being very disappointed.
Modifié par SkullandBonesmember, 28 mai 2010 - 02:47 .
I'll make a revision then:SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Umm. There's another possibility that ME3 will be just like ME2 where for most its "cool" to love it and many are content and then some with the game despite a good amount of the RPG fanbase being very disappointed.
Ecael wrote...
ME3 is 'meh' - Proves neither of us wrong, the pessimists still lose
I wasn't on the BioWare forums long enough to speculate on whether ME2 would be good or not, though (and I've never had an account at the old meforums.bioware.com).SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Ecael wrote...
ME3 is 'meh' - Proves neither of us wrong, the pessimists still lose
But you don't consider ME2 "meh".
I'm pessimistic because I went out of my way to preorder ME2 for 80 bucks outta my pocket.
Modifié par Ecael, 28 mai 2010 - 03:50 .
Ecael wrote...
I paid 60 dollars for the pre-ordered Digital Deluxe Edition on Steam and GameStop gave me a Terminus code for running out of Collector's Editions, so I ended up getting all the pre-order bonuses.
BioWare needs to get working on releasing the Incisor Rifle on the console. Don't know why they'd keep a bonus like that separate from consoles.SkullandBonesmember wrote...
Ecael wrote...
I paid 60 dollars for the pre-ordered Digital Deluxe Edition on Steam and GameStop gave me a Terminus code for running out of Collector's Editions, so I ended up getting all the pre-order bonuses.
Steam? Yeah, I use a console.
Ecael wrote...
Zulu_DFA wrote...
Ecael wrote...
Gunship for ME3?Zulu_DFA wrote...
And this Hammerhead is just another example of a huge plot black hole. But not because of the writers' fault, but because of its design (Turbines in space, really? Non-rotational turret firing rockets from the upper side of a flying vehicle, really?), tech specifications (Engine freezes, really?), and gameplay parameters (Lives "just a sec" under fire, really? Stirs by the mouse, really?)
Space fighter.
Star Effect, Mass Fox ... Peppy Vakarian. good stuff bro.
The only thing the end boss exemplifies is comedy, and to see that as a positive thing for another party is retarded.finnithe wrote...
1. The beauty of the collectors is the threat they represent is exemplified by the end boss. As Protheans twisted beyond recognition, they represent the danger presented by the creation of a Human Reaper. It is my opinion that the Reapers plan in creating the Human reaper was not to open the gateway for the rest of them, but to begin the creation of many more Human Reapers, who would together serve as the new vanguard.
Who the **** cares? Does symbollism do anything? Fighting a war on a social level, against an unnumbered malevolent enemy of mysteriuos origin is suddenly going to do...what? Start an argument on the politics of galactic-political status? Does the sheer idea of Shepard strike fear into a million year old machine race? Should we put up propaganda? If anything this could've played into the Shepard persona which could've coerced random people to want to join a suicide squad, but that's not even considered. So...what? (Cerberus' reasoning and motivtes are retarded.)2. Shepard is a symbol. Tell me, do we know of anyone as important as Shepard in the humanity's short history in the galactic community? No, and the point of recruiting Shepard was being able to recruit all these specialists in the first place.
Party A wanting anything doesn't make a plot hole.3. The Collectors obviously want Shepard. This creates a plot hole however, as the Collectors obviously want Shepard in Mass Effect: Redemption. However, they destroyed the Normandy despite this. It's very weird that they would risk completely killing Shepard while right after showing interest in capturing him to use in the creation of the Human Reapers (Harbinger even hints that this is his plan in his many quotes, even in the video where he says "We are your genetic destiny". He is quite literally stating that it is the humans' destiny to become the next generation of Reapers, as they are the only genetically compatible race in the galaxy at the time).'
But Miranda does. In fact, she doesn't like a lot of your choices. The ones she does like are false (Samara), and the ones that are effective she's smug about (corollary: Zaeed, who she's still smug about, yet whose results are different thatn Garrus'.) The fact that the choices, who you pick, and their results, are almost nonsensical/anyone's guess are the exact showcase that loyalty means nothing; aside from a logical flag for a certain result. The creators just whipped some crap together because it'd be too difficult to actually make a real scene between real people and their supposed social/trust issues in life and death situations, and how their loyalty to Shepard relates to their supposed performance. Make it even more ridiculous where people whip assault rifles out of their ass.4. The stuff about selecting team leaders and how your team doesn't really react any differently. Don't you think it'd be sort of revealing if immediately after choosing Grunt as your second Fire Team Leader, the game scolded you and slapped you on the wrist? I would even go as far to guess that the party members do not themselves know how dangerous the mission is (I don't any of them have faced a mission as tough as going into an unknown part of the galaxy filled with Reaper-spawn). Also, Jacob complaining at being assigned to help protect Garrus was all the way in the beginning of the game. He's probably grown a lot more since then. Shepard is a good role model after all.
Ah, no. Self-determination may be a possible theme during that choice. But where is it present during the rest of the game?I should add that a significant theme in ME2, as well as ME1, is self-determination. You have the chance to advance humanity significantly at the end, though you do so at the risk of making yourself vulnerable against the Reapers. Legion talks at length about this, as he says this was the one reason his group of Geth rejected Sovereign's offers to the Geth. I sometimes think I am playing a completely different game than you guys, but that's the best part of fiction isn't it? The part where you come up with your own theories about the themes and concepts presented? Not everything should be beaten into your skull like it was with Sovereign's speech on Virmire.
Modifié par smudboy, 02 juin 2010 - 12:09 .
smudboy wrote...
The only thing the end boss exemplifies is comedy, and to see that as a positive thing for another party is retarded.finnithe wrote...
1. The beauty of the collectors is the threat they represent is exemplified by the end boss. As Protheans twisted beyond recognition, they represent the danger presented by the creation of a Human Reaper. It is my opinion that the Reapers plan in creating the Human reaper was not to open the gateway for the rest of them, but to begin the creation of many more Human Reapers, who would together serve as the new vanguard.
The Collectors (Protheans) are not twisted beyond recognition, considering all we get of them is statues.
Thank you for your wild (and horrible) plot. Don't worry. It's not your fault. With crap like that, it's probably the best we can do to speculate.Who the **** cares? Does symbollism do anything? Fighting a war on a social level, against an unnumbered malevolent enemy of mysteriuos origin is suddenly going to do...what? Start an argument on the politics of galactic-political status? Does the sheer idea of Shepard strike fear into a million year old machine race? Should we put up propaganda? If anything this could've played into the Shepard persona which could've coerced random people to want to join a suicide squad, but that's not even considered. So...what? (Cerberus' reasoning and motivtes are retarded.)2. Shepard is a symbol. Tell me, do we know of anyone as important as Shepard in the humanity's short history in the galactic community? No, and the point of recruiting Shepard was being able to recruit all these specialists in the first place.
Party A wanting anything doesn't make a plot hole.3. The Collectors obviously want Shepard. This creates a plot hole however, as the Collectors obviously want Shepard in Mass Effect: Redemption. However, they destroyed the Normandy despite this. It's very weird that they would risk completely killing Shepard while right after showing interest in capturing him to use in the creation of the Human Reapers (Harbinger even hints that this is his plan in his many quotes, even in the video where he says "We are your genetic destiny". He is quite literally stating that it is the humans' destiny to become the next generation of Reapers, as they are the only genetically compatible race in the galaxy at the time).'
I'm only talking about the game.But Miranda does. In fact, she doesn't like a lot of your choices. The ones she does like are false (Samara), and the ones that are effective she's smug about (corollary: Zaeed, who she's still smug about, yet whose results are different thatn Garrus'.) The fact that the choices, who you pick, and their results, are almost nonsensical/anyone's guess are the exact showcase that loyalty means nothing; aside from a logical flag for a certain result. The creators just whipped some crap together because it'd be too difficult to actually make a real scene between real people and their supposed social/trust issues in life and death situations, and how their loyalty to Shepard relates to their supposed performance. Make it even more ridiculous where people whip assault rifles out of their ass.4. The stuff about selecting team leaders and how your team doesn't really react any differently. Don't you think it'd be sort of revealing if immediately after choosing Grunt as your second Fire Team Leader, the game scolded you and slapped you on the wrist? I would even go as far to guess that the party members do not themselves know how dangerous the mission is (I don't any of them have faced a mission as tough as going into an unknown part of the galaxy filled with Reaper-spawn). Also, Jacob complaining at being assigned to help protect Garrus was all the way in the beginning of the game. He's probably grown a lot more since then. Shepard is a good role model after all.
The party members don't give two sh*ts about the other party members, because there's no such thing as a team, group, party dynamic, etc. in ME2. The best we get is random comments from others about others. Wow, they acknowledge there are other people on board. The fact that Jack/Garrus speak up during Miranda's choice to elect herself as 2nd team leader is amazing. But it's too little too late. "Oh wow. Someone has an opinion about someone else? Where the f*ck was this the entire game?"
The two "loyalty" conflicts of Legion/Tali and Miranda/Jack should've been present exponentially, between everyone. Not just the two polar opposites. And their results shouldn't have just been a loyalty flag.Ah, no. Self-determination may be a possible theme during that choice. But where is it present during the rest of the game?I should add that a significant theme in ME2, as well as ME1, is self-determination. You have the chance to advance humanity significantly at the end, though you do so at the risk of making yourself vulnerable against the Reapers. Legion talks at length about this, as he says this was the one reason his group of Geth rejected Sovereign's offers to the Geth. I sometimes think I am playing a completely different game than you guys, but that's the best part of fiction isn't it? The part where you come up with your own theories about the themes and concepts presented? Not everything should be beaten into your skull like it was with Sovereign's speech on Virmire.
How exactly was Sovereign's speech beaten into our skulls? Sovereign's speech was cryptic and simple. I don't recall going "Oh not again...". But you know what? Whatever you thought of it, it was at least there. And for the first part of a trilogy, and considering that situation, it made sense. (Smug ass god talking to ants. WTF would they care?) In sci-fi, especially a space opera, you need things quite clear when dealing with aliens, alien worlds, sci-fi tech, etc. For Mass Effect, for a million year old machine race who think they are gods who go around culling the known galaxy(ies?) every 50k years, you're either going to have a sh*t load of exposition, or a shi*t load of people going "wtf is going on?" while they struggle to fight. Having a proxy war after this knowledge is quite the let down.
finnithe wrote...
1. We get statues of the original Protheans. The Collectors were genetically engineered by the Reapers using the Protheans DNA as a base. They show what the Reapers will do to the humans as does the Human Reaper.
2. Shepard is like a figurehead. TIM can see the importance of someone who led the fight to kill a Reaper, both to the galactic community and to the Reapers as well. Maybe you're right, Shepard doesn't strike fear into the Reapers, but I'm sure the galactic community would be happy to have someone who's faced the Reapers head on amongst their ranks. Look at all the propaganda created from Shepard, didn't it result in higher enlistment rates in the Alliance military? I think it might have said that in one of the news updates.
3. I was just referring to how it was weird that they almost killed Shepard despite showing a significant desire to obtain Shepard for their experiments with humans.
4. I'll give you this. The team never really feels like a team. This is one area where some increased squad member interaction could have made the game feel a lot better.
5. We're beaten over the head with the Reaper's plans because he literally tells us his motivations. I'd rather have more of the distress signal type stuff that we saw in the Ilos bunker by the Armature charging station. I'm happy they did more of this stuff in ME2, such as in the Collector Ship where we found out the origin of the Collectors. I know you need exposition, but I think there are other ways of delivering it than having this one long wall-of-text speech delivered over the span of several minutes from the game's antagonist. Not only is it unreasonable that you stop for that long in a combat zone (especially since your Salarian comrades are fighting during that time) but it's straight out of the 100 things that an Evil Overlord should never do. If maybe Sovereign talked directly to Shepard through telepathy in short bursts, or if Shepard was knocked unconscious with Sovereign talking to him telepathically in this state, I could tolerate it. I don't like getting exposition from the antagonist, it just seems wrong in so many ways.
Self-determination is present throughout the game, maybe you're not seeing it. Legion's loyalty quest is an example of taking away a faction of Geth that have made a different choice, and thus were outcast. Samara's daughter, Morinth, is an unfortunately unsympathetic creature (to me at least), who was given the choice between a virtual prison or being free, at the cost of being hunted down all the time. She chose freedom. The Krogan are an example of a race that were unable to reach a level where they were able to determine their identity, instead they were thrust into the galactic spotlight too early and given powers they could not control, eventually leading many to become the destructive people they are in ME. Miranda is much like Morinth in a way. She wanted freedom and self-determination for herself and her "sister", and this is what she pursues during her loyalty quest. However she still feels limited by the gifts she was given by her father as she admits that her achievements were not earned, unlike Shepard's.
Shepard is given the choice to advance humanity, augmenting it with Reaper technology, or giving them self-determination, and letting them choose their own path.
This theme is present in ME1 as well, and almost on every plot planet. It's present on Feros with the Thorian (quite literally), on Noveria with the choice to kill the last Rachni queen, and on Virmire when debating with Saren.
glacier1701 wrote...
finnithe wrote...
1. We get statues of the original Protheans. The Collectors were genetically engineered by the Reapers using the Protheans DNA as a base. They show what the Reapers will do to the humans as does the Human Reaper.
2. Shepard is like a figurehead. TIM can see the importance of someone who led the fight to kill a Reaper, both to the galactic community and to the Reapers as well. Maybe you're right, Shepard doesn't strike fear into the Reapers, but I'm sure the galactic community would be happy to have someone who's faced the Reapers head on amongst their ranks. Look at all the propaganda created from Shepard, didn't it result in higher enlistment rates in the Alliance military? I think it might have said that in one of the news updates.
3. I was just referring to how it was weird that they almost killed Shepard despite showing a significant desire to obtain Shepard for their experiments with humans.
4. I'll give you this. The team never really feels like a team. This is one area where some increased squad member interaction could have made the game feel a lot better.
5. We're beaten over the head with the Reaper's plans because he literally tells us his motivations. I'd rather have more of the distress signal type stuff that we saw in the Ilos bunker by the Armature charging station. I'm happy they did more of this stuff in ME2, such as in the Collector Ship where we found out the origin of the Collectors. I know you need exposition, but I think there are other ways of delivering it than having this one long wall-of-text speech delivered over the span of several minutes from the game's antagonist. Not only is it unreasonable that you stop for that long in a combat zone (especially since your Salarian comrades are fighting during that time) but it's straight out of the 100 things that an Evil Overlord should never do. If maybe Sovereign talked directly to Shepard through telepathy in short bursts, or if Shepard was knocked unconscious with Sovereign talking to him telepathically in this state, I could tolerate it. I don't like getting exposition from the antagonist, it just seems wrong in so many ways.
Self-determination is present throughout the game, maybe you're not seeing it. Legion's loyalty quest is an example of taking away a faction of Geth that have made a different choice, and thus were outcast. Samara's daughter, Morinth, is an unfortunately unsympathetic creature (to me at least), who was given the choice between a virtual prison or being free, at the cost of being hunted down all the time. She chose freedom. The Krogan are an example of a race that were unable to reach a level where they were able to determine their identity, instead they were thrust into the galactic spotlight too early and given powers they could not control, eventually leading many to become the destructive people they are in ME. Miranda is much like Morinth in a way. She wanted freedom and self-determination for herself and her "sister", and this is what she pursues during her loyalty quest. However she still feels limited by the gifts she was given by her father as she admits that her achievements were not earned, unlike Shepard's.
Shepard is given the choice to advance humanity, augmenting it with Reaper technology, or giving them self-determination, and letting them choose their own path.
This theme is present in ME1 as well, and almost on every plot planet. It's present on Feros with the Thorian (quite literally), on Noveria with the choice to kill the last Rachni queen, and on Virmire when debating with Saren.
1. We suppose that the statues are those of Protheans. We do not have anyone point out to us that that is what they actually are. We have no idea how realistic they are. For all we could know they are a depiction of a god and not a Prothean at all. EDI tells us and Mordin supports the fact that the Collectors are Protheans who have been altered both by some sort of genetic modification and by the use of technology. Indeed it does seem that they could be called cyborgs in being a machine/organic hybrid. Yet for all that we see we still do not know the final plan. What we are told in ME2 by Harbinger is contradictory to what we get from Sovereign in ME1. Which one is right? With the retconning that has been done we can have no faith in supposing that additional retconning will not occur in ME3.
2. The ONLY people who look up to Shepard are Cerberus. Most everyone else doesnt seem to care. Indeed for someone who is supposed to be some sort of leader figure it is surprising how many people just do not know who Shepard is. And in circumstances that you would suppose that these people would know. The reality is that TIM uses those words but the world as it unfolds simply does not acknowledge the importance of Shepard.
5. These are just throwaway lines much like the 'enemies everywhere' we got in ME1. There is nothing in them that suggests that they are not simply remakrs made in battle to try to distract. It means nothing and no importance should be attached to them. Basically since we get no exposition from the 'enemy' the ONLY thing we have is best guesses on our part as to the plans of the Reapers. And there is nothing that says that our guesses are correct or even only partially correct. Considering what we got told in ME1 and that the info we got in ME2 seems to contradict that it is possible that we are way out in left field on this and our guesses are wrong.
As to the self-detemination bit. Basically it is just paragon/renagade points earning. We are given shallow reasons and only the viewpoint of ONE side. We never get to see what the other side has to say. Only then could it be called self-determination though perhaps reaching even then to so call it.
And these statues were so informative as to give you some kind of understanding of what they looked like? How do the Collectors show us that the Reapers will a) turn humans into Collector slaves,finnithe wrote...
1. We get statues of the original Protheans. The Collectors were genetically engineered by the Reapers using the Protheans DNA as a base. They show what the Reapers will do to the humans as does the Human Reaper.
start making more Human Reapers? (Wait, are there any Prothean Reapers?) Cause everytime they capture a human, they melt them.1. The beauty of the collectors is the threat they represent is
exemplified by the end boss. As Protheans twisted beyond recognition,
they represent the danger presented by the creation of a Human Reaper.
It is my opinion that the Reapers plan in creating the Human reaper was
not to open the gateway for the rest of them, but to begin the creation
of many more Human Reapers, who would together serve as the new
vanguard.
Shepard is also literally a corpse (or what's left of one.) Surely during this extremely influential conversation between Miranda and TIM, the super-pragmatist head Cerberus honchos thought to themselves, "you know, if he dies and we can't recover him, a Plan B might be to divert our energies toward raising an army/cloning our own Shepard/doing it ourselves."2. Shepard is like a figurehead. TIM can see the importance of someone who led the fight to kill a Reaper, both to the galactic community and to the Reapers as well. Maybe you're right, Shepard doesn't strike fear into the Reapers, but I'm sure the galactic community would be happy to have someone who's faced the Reapers head on amongst their ranks. Look at all the propaganda created from Shepard, didn't it result in higher enlistment rates in the Alliance military? I think it might have said that in one of the news updates.
More proof that game play came before making a decent opposing force/clearly motivated antagonist. And God is Harbinger annoying.3. I was just referring to how it was weird that they almost killed Shepard despite showing a significant desire to obtain Shepard for their experiments with humans.
1. No, we're not.5. We're beaten over the head with the Reaper's plans because he literally tells us his motivations
So the most pivotal dialog in the story, and you're concerned not with the message, but its length? What, did you want more pew-pewing? 4 minutes of a dialog cutscene showing the Big Reveal, and the real conflict of the story was too much for you? Did you even pay attention?I'd rather have more of the distress signal type stuff that we saw in the Ilos bunker by the Armature charging station. I'm happy they did more of this stuff in ME2, such as in the Collector Ship where we found out the origin of the Collectors. I know you need exposition, but I think there are other ways of delivering it than having this one long wall-of-text speech delivered over the span of several minutes from the game's antagonist. Not only is it unreasonable that you stop for that long in a combat zone (especially since your Salarian comrades are fighting during that time) but it's straight out of the 100 things that an Evil Overlord should never do. If maybe Sovereign talked directly to Shepard through telepathy in short bursts, or if Shepard was knocked unconscious with Sovereign talking to him telepathically in this state, I could tolerate it. I don't like getting exposition from the antagonist, it just seems wrong in so many ways.
Sorry, but you're just saying "things with volition make choices." Which is like saying "every story has a character or characters that make choices." Which is like saying "human beings breathe." Stop me if I'm beginning to get rhetorical.Self-determination is present throughout the game, maybe you're not seeing it. Legion's loyalty quest is an example of taking away a faction of Geth that have made a different choice, and thus were outcast. Samara's daughter, Morinth, is an unfortunately unsympathetic creature (to me at least), who was given the choice between a virtual prison or being free, at the cost of being hunted down all the time. She chose freedom. The Krogan are an example of a race that were unable to reach a level where they were able to determine their identity, instead they were thrust into the galactic spotlight too early and given powers they could not control, eventually leading many to become the destructive people they are in ME. Miranda is much like Morinth in a way. She wanted freedom and self-determination for herself and her "sister", and this is what she pursues during her loyalty quest. However she still feels limited by the gifts she was given by her father as she admits that her achievements were not earned, unlike Shepard's.
Shepard is given the choice to sell/keep legion, or save/give the base to Cerberus. Considering this is ME2, what that means in ME3 is anyone's guess. So far, it seems this guy knows what's going on:Shepard is given the choice to advance humanity, augmenting it with Reaper technology, or giving them self-determination, and letting them choose their own path.
Yes, and I'm self-determined to finish this sentence. I'm also self-determined to press the keys on the keyboard. Wow. You can see it in everything...This theme is present in ME1 as well, and almost on every plot planet. It's present on Feros with the Thorian (quite literally), on Noveria with the choice to kill the last Rachni queen, and on Virmire when debating with Saren.
Modifié par finnithe, 02 juin 2010 - 06:46 .
And what is your point?finnithe wrote...
1. http://masseffect.wi...wiki/Collectors
According to EDI, the Collectors share the same DNA structure as the Protheans, leading her to conclude that the Collectors were Protheans genetically modified and given cybernetic enhancements. Remember when Vigil was talking about how the Reapers enslave organics and turn them on others? The Collectors are an example of the Reapers using that strategy. Not only that, but they show what will happen if the Reapers are allowed to conquer the galaxy.
The Collectors are "melting" the humans to create the Human Reapers, as all the tubes going towards the Human Reaper signify.
2. I'm just speculating here.
Have writers created an entire race of million year old sentient machines who've been destroying organic life in a cycle forever?3. You don't think it's weird that you just stop in a combat zone while your friends are dying and talk to Sovereign? It just makes for some weird pacing. Watch the speech again, he basically outlines what the Reapers do with every organic species. That's a very major point. I have no problem with dialogue, I know I didn't when I did my completionist run of DA:O, KOTOR and KOTOR2, but it doesn't make Sovereign's speech any less cliche. You know how on The Simpsons how Sideshow Bob keeps having his plans foiled while he describes them in excessive detail to Bart? It's like that.
http://tvtropes.org/...BetweenYouAndMe
Writers like invoking that idea of an overconfident antagonist way too often. Just once I'd like some competent antagonists. Sovereign describing the Reapers' plans obviously ends up screwing them over, as he ends up dying.
Yet you're not representing this supposed self-determination argument theme very well. You're reducing it to choice, which all things that are sentient in fiction and otherwise seem to have. Take any story and apply this self-determination theme of yours. Inigo is self-determined to kill Count Ruben regardless of being stabbed because of revenge. Wesley is self-determined to be with Buttercup because of true love through conflicts 1...n. All stories amount to people making choices or struggling, but you come by and say the theme in ME2 is choice making and struggling.4. Self-determination is a huge thing. You are treating it like some triviality that everyone has, but it's not like that. Do the Collectors have any free will? Aren't you limiting the Geth Heretic's free will by reprogramming them/killing them? Aren't you threatening humanity's ability to take it's own path by giving it Reaper technology and having "society develop along the paths it desires" as Sovereign so eloquently puts it during his speech? Just because you have self-determination does not mean it is unimportant, and I'm sure many others would agree.
Because we only get two main plot choices, and that is one of them.Why are you citing Shepard's ability to sell/keep Legion? I don't really see the point you're trying to make here. If you're trying to say we don't know if self-determination is going to be important, we sort of do. Like I quoted, Sovereign says that a big part of the Reapers' plans is to have galactic society evolve around the Mass Relays. Self-determination would equate with not relying on Reaper technology as Cerberus desires, so keeping and using the base will probably end up working badly.
Mass Effect: Retribution (even in the short description on Mass Effect Wikia) seems to focus on how using Reaper tech will affect humans.
SithLordExarKun wrote...
This threads still alive? Smugboy still losing sleep over ME2's "poorly written plot"? Creepy.
finnithe wrote...
...snip
1. Why is it a retcon? It could be a change of plans after all, as the Reapers have just started testing human compatibility. After all, humanity has only been a part of the galactic for so long, so it is likely the Reapers have very limited information on them.
2. A lot of people still know who Shepard is. Everyone from those criminals at Donovan Hock's party to Mouse knows Shepard. I don't know where you're getting this from. They don't know the face because 1. it's been 2 years and 2. characters mention that they altered your face in the recruitment posters.
5. They're combat lines so they' can't be accepted as canon? Why is this so?
Harbinger says "we" (the Reapers) are your (humans') genetic destiny. The Human Reaper is this genetic destiny. It's pretty clear from the quotes, and later proven in the game what the Reapers are doing.
http://masseffect.wi...nger_(Collector)/Battle_Quotes
glacier1701 wrote...
SithLordExarKun wrote...
This threads still alive? Smugboy still losing sleep over ME2's "poorly written plot"? Creepy.
LOL well it most probably would explode even further if I commented on the one part of Smud's analysis that I dont agree with.
smudboy wrote...
glacier1701 wrote...
SithLordExarKun wrote...
This threads still alive? Smugboy still losing sleep over ME2's "poorly written plot"? Creepy.
LOL well it most probably would explode even further if I commented on the one part of Smud's analysis that I dont agree with.
C'mon, you know you wanna. What, was it the whole crashing into the planet thing? The IFF probes? Not getting a sapper?
Modifié par Archereon, 04 juin 2010 - 08:39 .
Modifié par CTM1, 05 juin 2010 - 05:47 .
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