524 réponses à ce sujet

[InvaderErl]

CTM1 wrote...


As expected, you've also received a lot of flak, not surprisingly from a few people I wrote off the moment I first joined these forums. There's a depressing number here who come off as little more than blind fanboys, any number of whom jump into any debate to argue over something incessantly, or deliver short posts that offer nothing but a perceived sense of smug superiority. (And not always in an intelligent fashion, either. Some are better than others when it comes to expressing themselves.) It's one reason why I stopped coming here less. (Another is the annoying way in which the forum messes up the postbox format when quoting others. I don't like having to constantly edit what I post because it doesn't show up correctly, thank you very much.) There's no point in arguing with brick walls, especially when they outnumber you.

You do realize that you almost completely described the tone of your own post.

On to the topic.

If you want to get into it hard enough you can utterly tear down the plots of almost anything, ME1 and Dragon Age Origins included, really every Bioware game has moments in that don't quite make sense some of which the entire plot hinge on. That's not to say that pointing them out is wrong, but if you harp on them loudly and angrily enough you can make ANY movie/game/story seem terrible. If anything this video series often felt very Michael Moore-ish, in a bad way.

There's a difference between serious plot flaws and nitpicking over every little aspect and these videos too often crosses that line. Honestly, at this point - the ammo thing is over and done with, still harping on it is a bit silly. I guess that's the point of the internet though, so no real surprise there.

I don't know if its really so much a legitimate plot analysis as a
one-sided I hate Mass Effect 2 and here's why video series. Not every single point made is invalid but the majority of them are solely opinion. SMUDBOY didn't find joining Cerberus believable so its not believable - well I and a lot of other people did. Where's that leave that argument?

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 07:07 .

[Darkchipper07]

should send this to the Bioware writers so they can actually explain the story in the third game or EA so they don't rush the game and cut half the story out next time

[InvaderErl]

You do realize that the first game was clearly rushed. The second is far more polished than its predecessor.

*Sigh*

The internet is a harsh mistress.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 08:29 .

[MerrickShep]

Unfortunately I agreed with most of the points made in the "Plot Analysis"
I still loved the game and can't wait for ME3 but I do hope some of those Plotholes get explained.

Also, Smudboy is well within his rights to voice his own opinions so just leave him alone. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that. He is obviously a fan of the ME Trilogy he doesn't hate ME2 he just thinks it could have been much better which it could have.

Modifié par MerrickShep, 05 juin 2010 - 09:39 .

[onelifecrisis]

CTM1 wrote...

There's a depressing number here who ... <snip> ... deliver short posts that offer nothing but a perceived sense of smug superiority.

Hey! I take offense at that! Some of us put real effort into our short smug posts. <_<

CTM1 wrote...

There's no point in arguing with brick walls, especially when they outnumber you.

There isn't? Damn!  So many wasted years...

CTM1 wrote...

[sumdboy's videos are] pointless since the game has already been released. As he said himself, it seems to be more for his own benefit than that of anyone else, provided here because...well, it's to no use if no one sees it, yes?

How about because they're an entertaining look at something we're all interested in? I thought the videos were rather well made (and took some considerable effort, I imagine) and quite entertaining. I watched them twice - the second time was just for the LOLs. Isn't that reason enough to make and post them?

CTM1 wrote...

Nevertheless, in conclusion: Bioware, I hope you're listening to him, regardless of what he might think. He's one of what I'm assuming are many others who share the same concerns, and he makes several valid points, even if he occasionally intertwines his observations with arbitrary opinion (e.g., the final choice with destroying/preserving the Collector Base). Points that can translate into success in future endeavors, Mass Effect 3 and beyond. Because these are problems the company can take to heart when making any of their games: they can do much better when crafting sequels that build directly on their predecessors (that is, those that do not deliberately ignore certain bits of continuity, and presume to build upon choices the player makes from prevoius games), especially how high-profile Bioware has made the Mass Effect series. As far as I'm aware, no other game series has offered this level of interactivity, and I think part of what's to blame for all the missteps is Bioware treading on ground that hasn't been neatly paved. (That, and the unexpected sales numbers the first game got meant a sequel that needed retconning some things as a result, if what I'm told is true.)

Hear hear!

[InvaderErl]

MerrickShep wrote...

Also, Smudboy is well within his rights to voice his own opinions so just leave him alone. I don't think I can say it any clearer than that. He is obviously a fan of the ME Trilogy he doesn't hate ME2 he just thinks it could have been much better which it could have.

Why do I feel like we're going to get a "LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE" style video?

[CTM1]

Ah, yes. Another reason I hated posting here. People will find ways to mistake or twist what you say, for their own ends. But that's the Internet in general for you.

You need to be a bit more careful in your reading there, onelifecrisis. I didn't have a problem with smudboy's video series; in fact, I enjoyed it as well. What I said was:

"In any case, if smudboy is correct, the series makes no pretense in trying to be constructive; it criticizes Mass Effect 2's plot and offers improvements to said plot, which is pointless since the game has already been released. As he said himself, it seems to be more for his own benefit than that of anyone else, provided here because...well, it's to no use if no one sees it, yes?"

This was for Ecael's sake, as he/she seemed to be confused about smudboy's intent from the get-go. Hence their conflict. It was a statement of opinion concerning smudboy's motives, not what I thought of his video; a response to the recent debate that took up the last couple pages. In short: it was meant for him/her, not you or anyone else dropping in. I noticed you took the liberty of cutting and snipping another portion of my post as well, for comedic purposes (not particularly tasteful, considering its dishonesty; the part cut out is meant to be paired with the part included). It's a popular tactic for quote miners.

As for you, InvaderErl: what part of that long paragraph you decided to quote in its entirety did I come off sounding as? Because I said quite a few different things in it. Blind fanboy? I'm certainly not that. Smug snake? Perhaps, if that's how you want to interpret it, especially if you ignore what I said in conjunction. Stupid? Matter of opinion. What is it? Because I assure you: whatever it is, I am curious. I simply must know what another person posting on the Internet thinks of what I posted on the Internet. And not only that, but why you did not bother to point out just what it was you found potentially hypocritical in the first place! (Or even if you found it to be a problem, and simply figured a quick jab/joke was appropriate. Your one sentence says very little, sir. Why not just ignore the whole post?)

(It's the smug bit, isn't it? )

Modifié par CTM1, 05 juin 2010 - 09:00 .

[InvaderErl]

Here, I will break it down for you.

CTM1 wrote...
posts that offer nothing but a perceived sense of smug superiority.

There ya go.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 08:54 .

[CTM1]

Uh huh. That's what I figured. Quote mining.



I was referring to a certain style of posting. The type of posting that, ironically, better describes (though not really a dead-ringer for) your behavior in this thread (or at least, your responses directed at me). The kind of behavior describing an individual who comes into a thread, decides what the OP or previous poster said was stupid or not worth the time and effort, and dismisses it entirely out of hand as worthless with a single, petty comment. One they often think is pithy or witty. Coupled with the fact that they do this because they are certain they are right, and have the backup of many more like them to ensure what they say isn't roundly criticized for its blatant sense of self-importance or indulgence.



As I said, you were better off not bothering. Especially since I don't give a damn what you think. I call 'em as I see 'em, and this forum is full of people fitting the description I've given and now restated, just for you. For the most part, you can blame it on what the GIFT proposes about human behavior.

[InvaderErl]

CTM1 wrote...
As I said, you were better off not bothering. Especially since I don't give a damn what you think.

Oh I have been utterly defeated, woe is me. Whatever will I do now that I do not have your validation?

I really do get a kick out of your act though, very "I am above this silly internet business... but not really so marvel as I act as petty as everyone else on the internet while being passive agressive/intellectual".

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 09:36 .

[Darkchipper07]

InvaderErl wrote...

You do realize that the first game was clearly rushed. The second is far more polished than its predecessor.

*Sigh*

The internet is a harsh mistress.

sigh it was polished so well that there selling dlc of the stuff that was cut from the game

-case and point Kasumi

The internet is a harsh mistress.

[CTM1]

I'm not here to "defeat" you. If I wanted to do that, I'd have sat down and typed up another long post. Which would have served nothing, because it would probably spark another pointless debate, engulf me in discussion I would likely have little interest in, and assuredly fail as it would end in neither side being convinced in the other's arguments. I'm not here to change minds. Especially yours, as you seem a lot more interested in what smudboy and his detractors had to say than I did. (And one reason I wondered why you bothered to begin with. It really was a wasted effort, unless you like having someone to argue with.)

Let the matter go. I'm simply here to observe.

Edit: I came back to clarify a few things. I was a little annoyed in being misinterpreted for the umpteenth time. Not caring what you or anyone else thinks is not to belittle your world views; it's to make perfectly clear my intent in coming here in the first place. That's why I said I wasn't here to change minds; your responses seemed to indicate confusion of intent, much like Ecael was confused about smudboy's.

Modifié par CTM1, 05 juin 2010 - 09:59 .

[InvaderErl]

Bah *ignore* posting goof.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 09:50 .

[InvaderErl]

CTM1 wrote...

I'm not here to "defeat" you. If I wanted to do that, I'd have sat down and typed up another long post. Which would have served nothing, because it would assuredly fail as you're obviously convinced in what you say. I'm not here to change minds. Especially yours.

I never said you were. Nobody beats anybody on the internet, especially these boards. We just go round and round.

CTM1 wrote...
I'm simply here to observe.

If you say so, you seemed to be actively participating but whatever.

Consider the matter dropped.

[InvaderErl]

Darkchipper07 wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...

You
do realize that the first game was clearly rushed. The second is far
more polished than its predecessor.

*Sigh*

The internet
is a harsh mistress.

sigh it was polished so well
that there selling dlc of the stuff that was cut from the game

-case
and point Kasumi

The internet is a harsh mistress.

You realize that those DLC's were always planned. The reason they left the files in there was so that when it came time to install them it would be easier. You can argue the morality/business ethics whatever of such a thing but that is far from being rushed.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 09:48 .

[Darkchipper07]

ehhh whatever you say just cause the game looks polished doesn't mean the story was polished

[InvaderErl]

Darkchipper07 wrote...

ehhh whatever you say just cause the game looks polished doesn't mean the story was polished

I didn't bring up the story, we were talking about whether or not the game was rushed.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 10:26 .

[Revan312]

Well Smud, you summed up almost everything I've said on the boards since the game released, good job on the vid. There might have been a bit too much nitpicking concerning the last mission's who lives or dies moments and maybe the joker mission (though you mentioned that) but overall that's exactly how I felt about the games progression, meaning and execution. It was shallow and convoluted concerning the plot.



Hopefully vids like yours and the random posts myself and others have made will knock some sense into Bioware because they really do have the capability to pull off an amazing game, they just need to work through the main story arch and spend more time thinking about what the point of the game is. They lost themselves in gameplay mechanics this time I think and I'm hoping that they leave those pretty much alone and just concentrate on the flavor, atmosphere and meat of the game world as that's why I play RPG's.

[Darkchipper07]

InvaderErl wrote...

I didn't bring up the story, we were talking about whether or not the game was rushed. 

please look at the first post, so wait your saying that they made the game like this on purpose now thats sad. I would give bioware credit at making a good story for a game, I mean the first game story was great and "less polished" as you would say.

Modifié par Darkchipper07, 05 juin 2010 - 10:59 .

[InvaderErl]

Whether or not the story could have been polished does not speak to the game being rushed. You asserted that the game was rushed by EA and I retorted that the first game shows far more signs of being rushed out the door than its sequel.

You said Kasumi was a sign of this and I gave a reply saying no and here's why. Then you said the ME2 story wasn't polished as the first game's. Fine, I wasn't arguing that point with you, the story has nothing to do with the release date of the game.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 11:11 .

[tonnactus]

InvaderErl wrote...

Whether or not the story could have been polished does not speak to the game being rushed. You asserted that the game was rushed by EA and I retorted that the first game shows far more signs of being rushed out the door than its sequel.

Game was not rushed?Why shepardt didnt get to know more about the collector plague on omega,the purpose of it???

1-2 sentences with one vorcha,thats it.

[InvaderErl]

Again the state of the story has nothing to do with the release date. The story being put together would have been one of the first things to be done.

[WilliamShatner]

InvaderErl wrote...

Again the state of the story has nothing to do with the release date. The story being put together would have been one of the first things to be done.

Well it's all but certain that there were things in the script that were cut for time/budget/resources, and they may have done a lot to flesh the story out.

[InvaderErl]

Just as it was in the first game (Therum anybody?). Things get cut from every game.

The things that got cut from Dragon Age make me cry, that doesn't mean Dragon Age was rushed out the door.

An entire planet got cut out of KoTOR.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 05 juin 2010 - 11:18 .

[STG]

tonnactus wrote...
Game was not rushed?Why shepardt didnt get to know more about the collector plague on omega,the purpose of it???

1-2 sentences with one vorcha,thats it.

I think it was supposed to be used on earth. You get a comment on collector ship that they are planning to attack it.

Guess they didn't count on Shepard and Mordin.