88 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

1 - I place at least enough STR as required for the desired heavy (38) or massive (42) armors; DEX stays even to that figure until requirement is met. Also pts placed into Will & Cunning (if Rogue) to stay ca.10 pts behind that figure.

Are you playing a Warrior or Rogue?



2 - Sorry; play on PC

[Kanner]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

Kanner: there's Feast of the Fallen from Assassin, no idea how effective it actually is though :/

IIRC, you have to kill the enemy with a backstab too. ah well, that's what Flicker is for

Yes that was my assumption.  With enough careful control and planning of party that could work quite well.

More AoE is always nice too, and Legion damage/magic immunity sounds awesome.  (Boring obvious awesome build is boring and obvious BUT still awesome!)


I have too many other games and too much WoW (Kingslayer LOL) to play atm, I will be back to try this out however.

[Jonas1974]

Kanner wrote...

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

Kanner: there's Feast of the Fallen from Assassin, no idea how effective it actually is though :/

IIRC, you have to kill the enemy with a backstab too. ah well, that's what Flicker is for

Yes that was my assumption.  With enough careful control and planning of party that could work quite well.

More AoE is always nice too, and Legion damage/magic immunity sounds awesome.  (Boring obvious awesome build is boring and obvious BUT still awesome!)


I have too many other games and too much WoW (Kingslayer LOL) to play atm, I will be back to try this out however.

Yeah, just sucks we have to wait until Awakening Expansion to get any real AOE for the Rogue......grenades just don't cut it for me lol.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

oh yeah, Feast of the Fallen seems decently effective at giving you back sufficient stamina. trying it out on an orlesian elf assassin.

Jonas: dual-weapon sweep and whirlwind don't do it for you until Awk?

Modifié par yasuraka.hakkyou, 09 juin 2010 - 04:14 .

[Phaelducan]

I found that weapon speed got broken regularly using various combinations of Shale's Rock Mastery Aura... which was a shame since it's a GREAT archery buff.



However, I found that with the repeater gloves from RtO I was able to keep Aim up constantly without any drop in attack speed.



Scattershot and Arrow of Slaying (I found) were necessary to keep the build exciting, but stamina was a problem at times. Unless I was level 16 or so I wasn't able to use both in the same fight. I probably could have tried to get better gear earlier, though.

[Jonas1974]

i just dont think i am understanding the actual tactics.....i don't see the "greatness" in Scattershot that everyone else does......it only lasts for 2 seconds, and has such a long cooldown that you usually only get one per battle.....

[Jonas1974]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

oh yeah, Feast of the Fallen seems decently effective at giving you back sufficient stamina. trying it out on an orlesian elf assassin.

Jonas: dual-weapon sweep and whirlwind don't do it for you until Awk?

i meant archery AOE's....there really arent any, aside from scattershot, until Awakenings

[Jonas1974]

i already have a DW warrior and a AW mage.....really want a rogue, have tested DW rogue and didnt like it so much....really dig archery rogues, but really unsure how to do it......



i am weird in that i always keep a full party, but dont want to rely on them....like on my mage, i can fight independently, without heals or support, and just clean up the mess afterwards.....my warrior is close to that point, with 90% spell resist, 92% physical resist, and really good dps. just wish i could figure out the rogue to do the same thing lol.

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

are you on PC Jonas? sorry don't remember if that's been covered. there's a Faster Archery mod that drops the special shot time from 3 seconds to 1.5s. kind of puts near Awk territory, but I think a similar speed up is necessary for DA 2 or w/e. even Awk's AoE for archery seems eh until Rain of Arrows.



apparently scattershot from stealth gives you a string of crits, which sounds cool. if you have enough stamina, firing that would give you more time / enough time to get an AoS off.

[Jonas1974]

yasuraka.hakkyou wrote...

are you on PC Jonas? sorry don't remember if that's been covered. there's a Faster Archery mod that drops the special shot time from 3 seconds to 1.5s. kind of puts near Awk territory, but I think a similar speed up is necessary for DA 2 or w/e. even Awk's AoE for archery seems eh until Rain of Arrows.

apparently scattershot from stealth gives you a string of crits, which sounds cool. if you have enough stamina, firing that would give you more time / enough time to get an AoS off.

i am on xbox360

[yasuraka.hakkyou]

and that's kinda funny, I much prefer my DW rogues to my lone DW warrior.

[Jestina]

I would think an archer would just be screwed if the rest of the party went down...unless the archer also had good melee skills.



I'm doing dual wield rogue right now and that seems to work best...even better as a dwarf. You just have to keep maneuvering yourself into the backstab area of the target though, that's where dirty fighting and anything else you can use to stun comes in handy.

[Rhys Cordelle]

A rogue archer can easily pump their defense high enough that they hardly ever get hit. Just focus on dexterity, stop your cunning at 30 and your strength at 20. Even if you are getting hit, you can activate Defensive Shot for quite a hefty boost. I tank with my rogue archer.

[Kanner]

Dex = God stat in DA.



You JUST. CAN'T. GET. HIT after a certain point.



I have mentioned previously that I'm simply terrified for KOTOR Online if this is the level of game design going on generally at Bioware.

[Jonas1974]

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

A rogue archer can easily pump their defense high enough that they hardly ever get hit. Just focus on dexterity, stop your cunning at 30 and your strength at 20. Even if you are getting hit, you can activate Defensive Shot for quite a hefty boost. I tank with my rogue archer.

when tanking, how do u deal with multiple mages on rogue?

[Elhanan]

Scattering & Shattering Shots work well vs Mages and other archers. And if you have all 4 tiers of Stealth, this is a great way to leave the crowds standing around puzzled.

Pinning Shot may work; seems the target may stand around looking puzzled, too.

Modifié par Elhanan, 10 juin 2010 - 11:09 .

[DWSmiley]

Kanner wrote...

Dex = God stat in DA.

You JUST. CAN'T. GET. HIT after a certain point.

I have mentioned previously that I'm simply terrified for KOTOR Online if this is the level of game design going on generally at Bioware.

You can still die quickly, though, from magic or by getting stunned, grabbed or overwhelmed.

[Rhys Cordelle]

Jonas1974 wrote...

Rhys Cordelle wrote...

A rogue archer can easily pump their defense high enough that they hardly ever get hit. Just focus on dexterity, stop your cunning at 30 and your strength at 20. Even if you are getting hit, you can activate Defensive Shot for quite a hefty boost. I tank with my rogue archer.

when tanking, how do u deal with multiple mages on rogue?

When does that ever happen? Unless you're playing solo, in which case combat stealth and arrow of slaying are your best friends.

[Kanner]

DWSmiley wrote...

You can still die quickly, though, from magic or by getting stunned, grabbed or overwhelmed.

None of the other stats really help avoid that kind of thing either, however, assuming you have not neglected enough basic strength for some massive armor.

Vs. mutliple mages as a Rogue - well, whatever you have available, is certainly a ton better than vs. multiple mages as a warrior. =/

[Jonas1974]

I think I found a Rogue build I really like. I tested it, by making a character on Awakening and fighting the first couple fights.  This includes the 4 Tomes and Fade Bonuses.

Building towards

STR Max
DEX 36
MAG Base
WIL 20 (still looking at this, due to HIGH cost of Ranger pets)
CUN 30
CON Base (+10 from Lifegiver Ring)

Specs:

Duelist - Dueling for accuracy, Keen defense for damage mitigation
Ranger - Pets are an awesome distraction when things go south

Talents

Rogue - up to Evasion on second row
Pick Locks - to third talent (with 30 CUN able to open all locks)
Stealth - Max

Dual Weapons - Top and Bottom talents  (might add more in DA:A)

Items:

Livegiver
Key to the City
Conspirator's Foil
Spellward
Andruil's Blessing
Red Jenny Seekers
Bard's Dancing Shows
Felon's Coat
Duncan's Sword
Maric's Blade



Briefly tested the build (with less stats and talents due to created character not having Fade or Tome bonuses), and it worked AWESOME. When I encountered enemy Mages, they went right for the Great Bear, while I chopped them to bits. Plus it was tons of fun.  The 2 Evasion talents mitigated the damage just fine, without having to have extremely high DEX, and the Dueling sustain kept my ATT high enough for constant hits, also without extremely high DEX.

The biggest plus, is it really fits the mold of my favorite ADnD class, the Ranger.

**This build is just covering Origins though, will be taking Legionnairre Scout in DA:A**

Modifié par Jonas1974, 12 juin 2010 - 01:45 .

[Phaelducan]

Be warned, there is "random" encounter right near the beginning of Awakenings that has multiple emissaries. On NM I found that they immediately used crushing prison on three of my party.



It does happen...



That's why I like Dex builds more than cunning. People tend to think you can't have good Cunning-based buffs without leaving Dex at 34... but I find that the opposite is true. A modified cunning of 40ish is still GREAT for buffs, and leaves you free to push your dex close to 100 (modified). I'll take great damage and nearly untouchable over godly damage and lots of dirtnaps any day.

[Elhanan]

I still have to make a full light armored rogue through to the end. My Dalish Rogue Warden made it about half way, but I tired of the special attacks like Overwhelm and Grab, and they last the entire game.

But seeing as Felon's Coat has yet to make it into my inventory, guess this wil be a good time to build an assassin, and test the various 'traditional' types.

[Jonas1974]

Phaelducan wrote...

Be warned, there is "random" encounter right near the beginning of Awakenings that has multiple emissaries. On NM I found that they immediately used crushing prison on three of my party.

It does happen...

That's why I like Dex builds more than cunning. People tend to think you can't have good Cunning-based buffs without leaving Dex at 34... but I find that the opposite is true. A modified cunning of 40ish is still GREAT for buffs, and leaves you free to push your dex close to 100 (modified). I'll take great damage and nearly untouchable over godly damage and lots of dirtnaps any day.

how does DEX help against multiple emissaries?

[beancounter501]

I will admit I am struggling to find a really tough front line Rogue build. A high dex build helps but there are certain attacks - Overwhelm, Ogre Grabs, Dragon Chews, Crushing Prison that would just demolish a Rogue. Or if you are high dex build gets stunned (which happens a lot) you are extremely vulnerable.



When I compare a generic Level 16 Warrior to a Level 16 Rogue I see one really big difference: Health levels. A warrior is sitting around 240 points while a Rogue is sitting around 165. The warrior has almost 50% more health then the Rogue. That health is really your only real defense against those sort of auto hit attacks. So I am starting to think you may want to put in 10 to 15 points into Constitution. Throw in Lifegiver and/or the Blood Gorged Amulet and you should have more then enough health to start actually surviving those sort of attacks. I am not a big fan of putting points into Con, but I think it may be beneficial to give up 10 points of dex to get 10 points of con.



Probably the toughest build would be a Dwarf Dual Weld with Str of 42, Con of 22, cun of 16 and the rest in dex. Go with Massive or Heavy armor. Good defense, good attack, good dmg and decent health levels.

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
I will admit I am struggling to find a really tough front line Rogue build. A high dex build helps but there are certain attacks - Overwhelm, Ogre Grabs, Dragon Chews, Crushing Prison that would just demolish a Rogue. Or if you are high dex build gets stunned (which happens a lot) you are extremely vulnerable.

As someone who has soloed NM several times with both DEX & STR Rogues, all I can say is to use better tactics: 'Do unto others...' and all that.

Here's a couple freebies...

Ogres Elites:
*Start visible. Ogre will often lead off with Hurl, which you can easily avoid (unlike the Golem version)
*Close to melee range and cast Dirty Fighting. Even the bosses will fail every time.
*Backstab w/ Coup de Grace. If a Paralyze rune procs - Game Over
*If not, he'll be heavily damaged when he wakes up. At this point 9 times outta 10 he'll begin a Ram.
*When Ram floatie appears, hit Stealth to interrupt.
*Immediately Backstab again & finish with Flurry or Sweep if needed
* Use the same strat for Boss versions. Prebuff w/ Swift salve and as many poisons as you've got. Debuff w/ MoD
*Collect your loot

Crushing Prison:
*Note that only Emissaries, Arcane Horrors (exc. Gaxx), Uldred / Fade Beast use this spell
*For single Elites: Stealth in & Backstab. Watch what he does. If he doesn't turn around simply backstab him to death. If he does turn, Riposte and backstab him to death.
*Single Boss: Same deal with Ogre Boss buffing or equip spell res. gear.
*Multiples: If close together then Riposte #1, Dirty Fighting #2, then go back & finsh #1, then finish #2. Otherwise equip spell res. gear.
* A non-Dwarf Rogue can achieve greater than 90% spell res. if needed.

beancounter501 wrote...
When I compare a generic Level 16 Warrior to a Level 16 Rogue I see one really big difference: Health levels. A warrior is sitting around 240 points while a Rogue is sitting around 165. The warrior has almost 50% more health then the Rogue.

Yeah, 165 for a naked Rogue who hasn't been to the Fade. You were planning on going to the Fade and equipping gear, right?

beancounter501 wrote...
That health is really your only real defense against those sort of auto hit attacks.

That, and your AC, Stealth, Stuns, and Tactics. Bear in mind, a Rogue with Honnleath, Jenny's, Felon's, Cadash & Lifegiver has AC of 28 - not bad for leather armor. You can use a Rock Salve for another +5 if you're really worried. Again, the tooltip is wrong...Rock Salve will affect movement speed but not Attack speed.

beancounter501 wrote...
So I am starting to think you may want to put in 10 to 15 points into Constitution. Throw in Lifegiver and/or the Blood Gorged Amulet and you should have more then enough health to start actually surviving those sort of attacks. I am not a big fan of putting points into Con, but I think it may be beneficial to give up 10 points of dex to get 10 points of con.

Con? Con?!?
Oh, man...you're killin' me, BC. All adding Con is going to do is to allow your enemies to live longer and do even more damage to you.

Modifié par Random70, 14 juin 2010 - 10:52 .