252 réponses à ce sujet

[expanding panic]

Dude if so many people disagree with you maybe your wrong.

[Terraneaux]

Chim3ra wrote...

No oxygen in atmospher = why he didn't burn up


Really low surface gravity = why he didn't become a pancake.

You fail at physics forever.

[smudboy]

Chim3ra wrote...

No oxygen in atmospher = why he didn't burn up


Really low surface gravity = why he didn't become a pancake.

Partly right.  Things burn up in an atmosphere due to air compression, and because the thing traveling at such a high speed in space hits resistance to an atmosphere.

Alchera:
"While low density, its large size allows it to retain a thick atmosphere of methane and ammonia."

Methane Combustion:
CH4 + 2O2 ---> CO2 + 2H2O

Ammonia needs a few things to combust.  However, the issue of the planet not having a proper earth like atmosphere is key (like a magnetosphere), due to its low density.

Really low surface gravity (0.85 g) isn't that low.  Shepard is traveling thousands of miles an hour, depressurized, at absolute zero, and somehow their helmet came off, and their body doesn't shatter like the Cryo Ammo effect (* several types of velocities.)

[KainrycKarr]

ADLegend21 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

thegreateski wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

Again. The space shuttle has lightweight panneling that protects against the heat from atmospheric entry. It's not farfetched to think this far into the future that kind of material isn't commonplace in dropships, armor, etc.

So if he did get into the mako, i find the whole thing perfectly believable.

exactly, and armor have Kinectic barriers to protect the wearer.

Kinetic barriers do not protect against enviromental hazards.

Yes. The kinetic barrier, from what I read in the novels, only stops high-velocity projectiles. And while I'm sure one would fall pretty fast through an atmosphere, I don't think it's anywhere near as fast as ammunition from the kind of high-velocity weapons kinetic barrier's were made with in mind.

Or depending on the class it might have been a biotic barrier? and as we saw on Haestrom Shields to take damage from heat and radiation, the radiation wasn't coming in at projectile speeds, it was just there.

Which goes back to my point of most armor or equipment that goes into space likely has the material used for space shuttles built into it, as a point of safety redudancy.

IMO the issue isn't burning up - it's how in the hell he's even remotely intact once he hits impact.

[wulf3n]

ADLegend21 wrote...
 Or depending on the class it might have been a biotic barrier? and as we saw on Haestrom Shields to take damage from heat and radiation, the radiation wasn't coming in at projectile speeds, it was just there.

...ummmm radiation a star emits travels at the speed of light? Im not sure how fast the  ME2 "bullets" travel at, but its nowhere near that fast

[Yakko77]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Rybciek wrote...

you see his body entering the atmosphere and burning up.

Were we playing the same ME2? I didn't see him burning. It was too high in space for him to start burning.

You see the friction around his body from entering the atmosphere, but he doesn't burst into flames.

Friction generally equals heat and I can only assume that entering the atmosphere of a planet with even a limited atmosphere would generate fatal temperatures (especially considering Sheps damaged suit and considering what happened to the Space Shuttle Columbia with a damaged heat shield) then one can safely assume that even if Shepard didn't "burst into flames" that he did burn up let alone all the other situations that would lead to certain death like suffocation in the vacuum of space.

[thegreateski]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1) Why all the fuss with the body? If TIM found it accepable to have an artificial Shepard, he had no interest in retrieving the remains of the original. Even if that was just a bonus to his more important agenda of getting that Shadow Broker's flash card Feron passed to Liara to deliver to Cerberus, there was no point in keeping it. It would be easier, cheaper and faster to just outright clone everything.

2) It makes some sense that TIM wouldn't want to "alter Shepard's personality" by making him a puppet via the control/kill chip. But if the ME2 Shepard was just a replica, the persobnality would not be the same anyway, so it wouldn't harm any more if it was made a little more docile, so that any attempt to revolt against TIM's will, like the one when Shepard can choose to destroy the Collector Base would be impossible. (Funny thing: *my* Shepard, who is a Cerberus "loyalist" way more than Miranda ever was, can actually be such a replica, and wouldn't even fret over being an "artificial person", but from the metagame knowledge I know it does not fit most *other* Shepards' personae.)

It was just wild speculation on my part but . . .

1. You would need something to base the clone off of. Obviously having a whole body's worth of DNA is better then the fragments you could aquire elsewhere.

2. How do you know that the personality would not be the same in any way? We have the opportunity to decide if we follow our previous game's character alignment or go in a completely different direction. And altering someone's personality is not something you can do at the drop of a hat. TIM did not want Shepard to be altered in any way at all . . . except for a few biological upgrades anyway.

[Zulu_DFA]

thegreateski wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
1) Why all the fuss with the body? If TIM found it accepable to have an artificial Shepard, he had no interest in retrieving the remains of the original. Even if that was just a bonus to his more important agenda of getting that Shadow Broker's flash card Feron passed to Liara to deliver to Cerberus, there was no point in keeping it. It would be easier, cheaper and faster to just outright clone everything.

2) It makes some sense that TIM wouldn't want to "alter Shepard's personality" by making him a puppet via the control/kill chip. But if the ME2 Shepard was just a replica, the persobnality would not be the same anyway, so it wouldn't harm any more if it was made a little more docile, so that any attempt to revolt against TIM's will, like the one when Shepard can choose to destroy the Collector Base would be impossible. (Funny thing: *my* Shepard, who is a Cerberus "loyalist" way more than Miranda ever was, can actually be such a replica, and wouldn't even fret over being an "artificial person", but from the metagame knowledge I know it does not fit most *other* Shepards' personae.)

It was just wild speculation on my part but . . .

1. You would need something to base the clone off of. Obviously having a whole body's worth of DNA is better then the fragments you could aquire elsewhere.

2. How do you know that the personality would not be the same in any way? We have the opportunity to decide if we follow our previous game's character alignment or go in a completely different direction. And altering someone's personality is not something you can do at the drop of a hat. TIM did not want Shepard to be altered in any way at all . . . except for a few biological upgrades anyway.

1. No doubt Shepard's DNA was fully mapped and recorded somewhere in the Alliance databases. Ever since it could be replicated even without a live original sample. (This is where genetic engineering is going even now and it will be there within 50 years without any sort of mass effect "magic").

2. Actually, even the original Shepard wouldn't have the same personality after his "death". Many people that have suffered clinical death change, sometimes at 180, and from personal experience I can tell, that even such a trifle as a road accident that doesn't result in any physical damage can have a lasting psychological effect. I think it's called post traumatic stress disorder or something like that. So this TIM's "exactly as you were" postulate is not very realistic to begin with. As far as only the personality goes it would actually make even more sense to restore Shepard from the last "save" (assuming it is possible). But what TIM seems to seek here is more about the continuity of Shepard not only as a combat unit, but as an ideal symbolic quantity, which just wouldn't cut it if there were any grounds to not recognize Shepard as "the same"...

Anyway, even if Shepard is dead and in ME2 we are running a "soulless" clone/cyborg, TIM could go to some more lenghts in making him (and everyone else) believe that he is the original Shepard, by presenting a plausible story to explain the survival instead of "I clapped my hands and voila!"

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:58 .

[ShuvelAndRaek]

Question: Has anyone seen an N7 suit get blasted or ripped open? even when shields are down,Shep never really takes permanent damage. who is to say his skull, and thusly, brain weren't atleast somewhat intact? if so, repairing the body using scraps of his DNA should be fairly easy, for their time-period

Modifié par ShuvelAndRaek, 01 août 2010 - 02:53 .

[Zulu_DFA]

ShuvelAndRaek wrote...

Question: Has anyone seen an N7 suit get blasted or ripped open? even when shields are down,Shep never really takes permanent damage. who is to say his skull, and thusly, brain weren't atleast somewhat intact? if so, repairing the body using scraps of his DNA should be fairly easy, for their time-period

"Somewhat intact" would not allow to restore Shepard's personality.

But never mind. Human body, including brain, can not be "somewhat intact" at sub zero temperatures because the WATER EXPANDS during crystalization and destroys every cell.

[ilikeicehockey]

this is 200 years in the future. They have super space suits that take care of everything. All that happened with Sheps suit was that the oxygen blew out. All the other safety countermeasures were working fine including the deep space safety thingy.

[MagusRudra]

Having read every book, every comic, every codex entry, and played both games more than 3 times a pop, I can tell you with certainty his survival had all to do with his N7 suit. Various times in the novels Ascension and Retribution, we see kinetic barriers in regular suits compared with great difference to kinetic barriers in suits belonging to individuals with plenty of wealth.

Taking into account that the kinetic barriers of a regular suit can take several projectile attacks, (which we know is basically extremely super-heated shrapnel in the ME universe), it's logical to assume that, in atmospheric entry, the kinetic barriers of his superior suit would be capable of reducing the heat damage Sheperd takes on re-entry (melting his body instead of disintegrating it), and reducing the overall impact in tons of force that hitting the planet at terminal velocity would normally cause. Again, enough to kill him, but not to liquify him, like most of you are claiming.

More than likely, an advanced suit has sensors that allow the suit to change its barrier functionality. I.e. A sensor that would tell the suit to say, de-focus it's barrier, so it protects it's user over areas of square meters instead of the default acute, millimeter precise protection required for small, super-heated projectile attacks. Even more likely is that atmospheric re-entry causes less stress on the kinetic barriers than regular projectiles ever would, given that the heat is dispersed across a far greater area, causing less penetration of the suit's kinetic bariers. Last I checked, all of this was also basic physics....and not nearly as far-fetched.

Modifié par MagusRudra, 12 août 2010 - 01:58 .

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

MagusRudra wrote...

Having read every book, every comic, every codex entry, and played both games more than 3 times a pop, I can tell you with certainty his survival had all to do with his N7 suit. Various times in the novels Ascension and Retribution, we see kinetic barriers in regular suits compared with great difference to kinetic barriers in suits belonging to individuals with plenty of wealth.

Taking into account that the kinetic barriers of a regular suit can take several projectile attacks, (which we know is basically extremely super-heated shrapnel in the ME universe), it's logical to assume that, in atmospheric entry, the kinetic barriers of his superior suit would be capable of reducing the heat damage Sheperd takes on re-entry (melting his body instead of disintegrating it), and reducing the overall impact in tons of force that hitting the planet at terminal velocity would normally cause. Again, enough to kill him, but not to liquify him, like most of you are claiming.

More than likely, an advanced suit has sensors that allow the suit to change its barrier functionality. I.e. A sensor that would tell the suit to say, de-focus it's barrier, so it protects it's user over areas of square meters instead of the default acute, millimeter precise protection required for small, super-heated projectile attacks. Even more likely is that atmospheric re-entry causes less stress on the kinetic barriers than regular projectiles ever would, given that the heat is dispersed across a far greater area, causing less penetration of the suit's kinetic bariers. Last I checked, all of this was also basic physics....and not nearly as far-fetched.

Basic physics won't let people melt by wearing fancy suits? Might want to uh, double check that.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 12 août 2010 - 02:27 .

[ShuvelAndRaek]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...


Basic physics won't let people melt by wearing fancy suits? Might want to uh, double check that.

lol, everyone knows rich people can ignore the laws of physics... like gravity. thats why i can fly >_>

[MagusRudra]

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Having read every book, every comic, every codex entry, and played both games more than 3 times a pop, I can tell you with certainty his survival had all to do with his N7 suit. Various times in the novels Ascension and Retribution, we see kinetic barriers in regular suits compared with great difference to kinetic barriers in suits belonging to individuals with plenty of wealth.

Taking into account that the kinetic barriers of a regular suit can take several projectile attacks, (which we know is basically extremely super-heated shrapnel in the ME universe), it's logical to assume that, in atmospheric entry, the kinetic barriers of his superior suit would be capable of reducing the heat damage Sheperd takes on re-entry (melting his body instead of disintegrating it), and reducing the overall impact in tons of force that hitting the planet at terminal velocity would normally cause. Again, enough to kill him, but not to liquify him, like most of you are claiming.

More than likely, an advanced suit has sensors that allow the suit to change its barrier functionality. I.e. A sensor that would tell the suit to say, de-focus it's barrier, so it protects it's user over areas of square meters instead of the default acute, millimeter precise protection required for small, super-heated projectile attacks. Even more likely is that atmospheric re-entry causes less stress on the kinetic barriers than regular projectiles ever would, given that the heat is dispersed across a far greater area, causing less penetration of the suit's kinetic bariers. Last I checked, all of this was also basic physics....and not nearly as far-fetched.

Basic physics won't let people melt by wearing fancy suits? Might want to uh, double check that.

Troll much? Read my frigging post before you troll that hard. Anyone who's read Revelations, Ascension, or Retribution can tell you that not all suits are created equal. In fact, Anderson pointed out in Retribution that Aria's merc's wore basic combat suits, but her lieutanants appeared to have suits with better kinetic barriers.  Seriously, what's so hard about something like common sense and logic that people have a hard time grasping? I'm 100% sure my buddy's 2010 Volvo will better protect him in a devastating car crash than my other buddy's 05' Kia. .

[Zulu_DFA]

MagusRudra wrote...
Having read every book, every comic, every codex entry, and played both games more than 3 times a pop,

Good for you, but it tells nothing as to how well you understand all that.

I can tell you with certainty his survival had all to do with his N7 suit. Various times in the novels Ascension and Retribution, we see kinetic barriers in regular suits compared with great difference to kinetic barriers in suits belonging to individuals with plenty of wealth.

Taking into account that the kinetic barriers of a regular suit can take several projectile attacks, (which we know is basically extremely super-heated shrapnel in the ME universe)

And stop. "Super-heated" has nothing to do with kinetic barriers. As well as "toxic", "radiation" and "melee". Not that it matters, though, because as a dev pointed out in the "BioWare, you need a retcon" thread, Shepard would not have any heat problems as he fell on the planet's surface.

, it's logical to assume that, in atmospheric entry, the kinetic barriers of his superior suit would be capable of reducing the heat damage Sheperd takes on re-entry (melting his body instead of disintegrating it), and reducing the overall impact in tons of force that hitting the planet at terminal velocity would normally cause. Again, enough to kill him, but not to liquify him, like most of you are claiming.

More than likely, an advanced suit has sensors that allow the suit to change its barrier functionality. I.e. A sensor that would tell the suit to say, de-focus it's barrier, so it protects it's user over areas of square meters instead of the default acute, millimeter precise protection required for small, super-heated projectile attacks. Even more likely is that atmospheric re-entry causes less stress on the kinetic barriers than regular projectiles ever would, given that the heat is dispersed across a far greater area, causing less penetration of the suit's kinetic bariers. Last I checked, all of this was also basic physics....and not nearly as far-fetched.

Not sure about basic physics, but practice says that an instanteneous deceleration from 100+ MPH to zero would kill Shepard. Because, you know, it's like being hit by a train at that speed.

You see, the Blue Suns couldn't get to him sooner than several days, so he had to be alive for all that time. Otherwise he would suffer cardiac arrest & respiratoty standstill which constitutes clinical death (a reversible condition), and then - within minutes, a couple of hours at most - information-theoretic death (an irreversible condition, because at that point there would be no more Shepard and you can't restore something from nothing), either due to decomposition of his brain cells (if his suit was functioning and maintaining his body temperature), or their destruction by the expanding freezing water (if his suit was not functioning and maintaining the body temperature).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 août 2010 - 12:16 .

[JackhammerGR]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Flamin Jesus wrote...

And how did he go from meat popsicle to "the first time I saw you, you were all meat and tubes"?

To some extent it may be a figure of speech... But have you ever seen a badly frostbitten limb?

Actually no. If you read the redemption comic the shadow's broker big agent Tazzik when he is talking to some people and he says that the body is so damaged that he can't even reckognise Shepard's sex. So he/she WAS just meats and tubes. Also at the begining of ME2 at the lazarus project when they show shepards first x rays you can see that only the left foot was cutted from the about the hip and the knee.

Modifié par JackhammerGR, 12 août 2010 - 03:39 .

[MagusRudra]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Good for you, but it tells nothing as to how well you understand all that.

Apparently more so than yourself.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And stop. "Super-heated" has nothing to do with kinetic barriers. As well as "toxic", "radiation" and "melee". Not that it matters, though, because as a dev pointed out in the "BioWare, you need a retcon" thread, Shepard would not have any heat problems as he fell on the planet's surface.

Wait, What?  Seriously, reading comprehension is part of a required course in school; remember it please. Projectile weapons in the ME universe use a block of metal for their ammunition. The Mass Effect field that the weapon emits launchs an entirely irrelevant portion of that block of metal at ridiculously fast speeds towards it's target. Although the launching mechanism for projectile weapons produces no heat, the Mass Effect field is only within the gun, and once the projectile hits a relevant medium, friction would super-heat the projectile. What this means is that kinetic barriers are made to withstand heat, if not they wouldn't work similarly in a medium where friction plays a crucial role as compared to a lack of a medium (a vaccum), such as in space.

That's what I meant by "super-heated"; I wasn't refering to the kinetic barriers themselves, but the fact that the kinetic barriers have to stop acute, super-heated, millimeter (or smaller) sized slugs during normal use. Seeing the uprades and modifications you can make to your shields in ME:2, it's not even remotely far-fetched to believe that more expensive suits have the ability to modulate how the barriers stop damage to the wearer. That includes changing from the regular, acute stopping barrier, to a barrier that reduces extreme temperatures throughout the body.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Not sure about basic physics, but practice says that an instanteneous deceleration from 100+ MPH to zero would kill Shepard. Because, you know, it's like being hit by a train at that speed.

You see, the Blue Suns couldn't get to him sooner than several days, so he had to be alive for all that time. Otherwise he would suffer cardiac arrest & respiratoty standstill which constitutes clinical death (a reversible condition), and then - within minutes, a couple of hours at most - information-theoretic death (an irreversible condition, because at that point there would be no more Shepard and you can't restore something from nothing), either due to decomposition of his brain cells (if his suit was functioning and maintaining his body temperature), or their destruction by the expanding freezing water (if his suit was not functioning and maintaining the body temperature).

On your first note, a shotgun blast at near point blank doesn't get rid of the barriers of an adavnced suit. I'm pretty sure (at least physics wise) that the pounds per square force dealt by that shotgun blast are enough to say that the kinetic barriers on an advanced suit could reduce the damage from that atmopsheric re-entry fall enough so that he wouldn't flatten on impact. It's definitely quite plausible considering the technology. Personally, to sum it up, I believe that the barriers reduced the heat of re-entry, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from burning to the point of non-recognition. The impact itself was probably still enough, and actually what killed him (although not enough to flatten him thanks to the barriers), but as all suits inject small amounts of medigel to sustain their users after serious physical damage (i.e. bones breaking and the like; see the novel Retribution), his body was able to be recovered without significant brain decomposition.

If you see any holes in this theory, please, enlighten me. Im trying to use all my knowledge of the ME Universe here, and at least to me, it's plausible. Although to Shep's credit, he/she wouldn't have survived had he/she not been a trained super-soldier.

[MagusRudra]

MagusRudra wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Good for you, but it tells nothing as to how well you understand all that.

Apparently more so than yourself.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
And stop. "Super-heated" has nothing to do with kinetic barriers. As well as "toxic", "radiation" and "melee". Not that it matters, though, because as a dev pointed out in the "BioWare, you need a retcon" thread, Shepard would not have any heat problems as he fell on the planet's surface.

Wait, What?  Seriously, reading comprehension is part of a required course in school; remember it please. Projectile weapons in the ME universe use a block of metal for their ammunition. The tiny Mass Effect field that the weapon generates launchs an entirely irrelevant portion of that block of metal at ridiculously fast speeds towards it's target. Although the launching mechanism for projectile weapons produces no heat, the tiny Mass Effect field is only within the gun, and once the projectile hits a relevant medium, friction would super-heat the projectile. What this means is that kinetic barriers are made to withstand heat, if not they wouldn't work similarly in a medium where friction plays a crucial role as compared to where there's a lack of a medium (a vaccum), such as in space.

That's what I meant by "super-heated"; I wasn't refering to the kinetic barriers themselves, but the fact that the kinetic barriers have to stop acute, super-heated, millimeter (or smaller) sized slugs during normal use. Seeing the uprades and modifications you can make to your shields in ME:2, it's not even remotely far-fetched to believe that more expensive suits have the ability to modulate how the barriers stop damage to the wearer. That includes changing from the regular, acute stopping barrier, to a barrier that reduces extreme temperatures throughout the body.

Zulu_DFA wrote...
Not sure about basic physics, but practice says that an instanteneous deceleration from 100+ MPH to zero would kill Shepard. Because, you know, it's like being hit by a train at that speed.

You see, the Blue Suns couldn't get to him sooner than several days, so he had to be alive for all that time. Otherwise he would suffer cardiac arrest & respiratoty standstill which constitutes clinical death (a reversible condition), and then - within minutes, a couple of hours at most - information-theoretic death (an irreversible condition, because at that point there would be no more Shepard and you can't restore something from nothing), either due to decomposition of his brain cells (if his suit was functioning and maintaining his body temperature), or their destruction by the expanding freezing water (if his suit was not functioning and maintaining the body temperature).

On your first note, a shotgun blast at near point blank doesn't get rid of the barriers of an advanced suit. I'm pretty sure (at least physics wise) that the pounds per square force dealt by that shotgun blast are enough to say that the kinetic barriers on an advanced suit could reduce the damage from that atmopsheric re-entry fall enough so that he wouldn't flatten on impact. It's definitely quite plausible considering the technology. Personally, to sum it up, I believe that the barriers reduced the heat of re-entry, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from burning to the point of non-recognition. The impact itself was probably still enough, and actually what killed him (although not enough to flatten him thanks to the barriers), but as all suits inject small amounts of medigel to sustain their users after serious physical damage (i.e. bones breaking and the like; see the novel Retribution), his body was able to be recovered without significant brain decomposition.

If you see any holes in this theory, please, enlighten me. Im trying to use all my knowledge of the ME Universe here, and at least to me, it's plausible. Although to Shep's credit, he/she wouldn't have survived had he/she not been a trained super-soldier.

Modifié par MagusRudra, 13 août 2010 - 12:14 .

[krasnoarmeets]

With regard to kinetic barriers, they do not stop heat, radiation, toxic substances, cold etc. What they do is attempt to dissipate the kinetic energy of any object rushing toward the suit wearer that has attained above a certain amount of velocity or kinetic energy, which is why melee attacks bypass them given that they do not trigger them. That's how I understand it. My explanation may not be worded spectacularly, but I know what I mean and that's the main thing...

Maybe Bioware is suggesting we swallow the possibility that the material the suit's made of would protect against re-entry, and given that he was exposed to the vacuum of space (-273.15 or 0 K, which would freeze you pretty quickly) that he thawed out during re-entry and then landed in fresh deep snow?

Modifié par krasnoarmeets, 13 août 2010 - 12:32 .

[MagusRudra]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

With regard to kinetic barriers, they do not stop heat, radiation, toxic substances, cold etc. What they do is attempt to dissipate the kinetic energy of any object rushing toward the suit wearer that has attained above a certain amount of velocity or kinetic energy, which is why melee attacks bypass them given that they do not trigger them. That's how I understand it. My explanation may not be worded spectacularly, but I know what I mean and that's the main thing...

Maybe Bioware is suggesting we swallow the possibility that the material the suit's made of would protect against re-entry, and given that he was exposed to the vacuum of space (-273.15 or 0 K, which would freeze you pretty quickly) that he thawed out during re-entry and then landed in fresh deep snow?

Hm.. I had forgotten about the core explanation regarding kinetic barriers. Well, taking that into account, it brings us back to the fact that we find Shep's helmet at the crash site intact. So it's probably a mix of both? The suit itself protected somewhat against re-entry, and he landed in deep snow. If you add injected medigel, you may just have the final restorative missing piece, keeping his brain from decomposing.

[ShuvelAndRaek]

MagusRudra wrote...

On your first note, a shotgun blast at near point blank doesn't get rid of the barriers of an adavnced suit. I'm pretty sure (at least physics wise) that the pounds per square force dealt by that shotgun blast are enough to say that the kinetic barriers on an advanced suit could reduce the damage from that atmopsheric re-entry fall enough so that he wouldn't flatten on impact. It's definitely quite plausible considering the technology. Personally, to sum it up, I believe that the barriers reduced the heat of re-entry, but it wasn't enough to prevent him from burning to the point of non-recognition. The impact itself was probably still enough, and actually what killed him (although not enough to flatten him thanks to the barriers), but as all suits inject small amounts of medigel to sustain their users after serious physical damage (i.e. bones breaking and the like; see the novel Retribution), his body was able to be recovered without significant brain decomposition.

i want to point out that high levels of radiation, as well as high heat can kill your shield. meaning your shield most likely will not survive reentry. and even at .85G, the reduced gravity of the world in question, you would be falling at 8.16 meters per second. which, after 100 meters, would mean you were falling ridiculously fast, regardless of your shields or body armor. even iff the fall didnt effect your armor, the sheer amount of gravitic potential energy(speed of falling x weight of shepherd, in armor) suddenly flooding your shields would probably be more like having a tank fall on you. any residual energy would go through your body so quickly you would literally be turned to goop. therefor- not meat for the "meat and tubes" comment.this is why i think the mako is the only even slighlt plausible way for anything to be left of shep. Also, having re-read your main point, you say that the shields protected him from some heat damage, but not all, but are still active when he hits the ground? in ME1 you can go out on dangerous planets only because the shields protected you from all the damage, not some. inorder to be burned beyond recognition, the shileds would have to fail. unless you think they had time to recharge? i think it unlikely seeing as the sheer heat would fry any circuitry, if not simply ripping off the shield generator.

[MTN Dew Fanatic]

krasnoarmeets wrote...

With regard to kinetic barriers, they do not stop heat, radiation, toxic substances, cold etc. What they do is attempt to dissipate the kinetic energy of any object rushing toward the suit wearer that has attained above a certain amount of velocity or kinetic energy, which is why melee attacks bypass them given that they do not trigger them. That's how I understand it. My explanation may not be worded spectacularly, but I know what I mean and that's the main thing...

Maybe Bioware is suggesting we swallow the possibility that the material the suit's made of would protect against re-entry, and given that he was exposed to the vacuum of space (-273.15 or 0 K, which would freeze you pretty quickly) that he thawed out during re-entry and then landed in fresh deep snow?

I don't think anything on that planet would have kept him intact upon reentry.

[Dr. Peter Venkman]

MagusRudra wrote...

Dr. Peter Venkman wrote...

MagusRudra wrote...

Having read every book, every comic, every codex entry, and played both games more than 3 times a pop, I can tell you with certainty his survival had all to do with his N7 suit. Various times in the novels Ascension and Retribution, we see kinetic barriers in regular suits compared with great difference to kinetic barriers in suits belonging to individuals with plenty of wealth.

Taking into account that the kinetic barriers of a regular suit can take several projectile attacks, (which we know is basically extremely super-heated shrapnel in the ME universe), it's logical to assume that, in atmospheric entry, the kinetic barriers of his superior suit would be capable of reducing the heat damage Sheperd takes on re-entry (melting his body instead of disintegrating it), and reducing the overall impact in tons of force that hitting the planet at terminal velocity would normally cause. Again, enough to kill him, but not to liquify him, like most of you are claiming.

More than likely, an advanced suit has sensors that allow the suit to change its barrier functionality. I.e. A sensor that would tell the suit to say, de-focus it's barrier, so it protects it's user over areas of square meters instead of the default acute, millimeter precise protection required for small, super-heated projectile attacks. Even more likely is that atmospheric re-entry causes less stress on the kinetic barriers than regular projectiles ever would, given that the heat is dispersed across a far greater area, causing less penetration of the suit's kinetic bariers. Last I checked, all of this was also basic physics....and not nearly as far-fetched.

Basic physics won't let people melt by wearing fancy suits? Might want to uh, double check that.

Troll much? Read my frigging post before you troll that hard. Anyone who's read Revelations, Ascension, or Retribution can tell you that not all suits are created equal. In fact, Anderson pointed out in Retribution that Aria's merc's wore basic combat suits, but her lieutanants appeared to have suits with better kinetic barriers.

As someone who HAS read the books, kinetic barriers DON'T protect someone from burnup on re-entry and they are NOT going to stop someone from hitting the ground pretty darn fast; they dissipate an object's energy over a large area; this is the basic premise of all body armor and when it comes to ME, the barrier only triggers when an object (i.e., a bullet) hits the suit at a high-rate of speed. Pressurized suits rely on an energy source that depletes. Point out a suit that is a substitute for a vessel anywhere in the series, given you've "read and know everything".

Seriously, what's so hard about something like common sense and logic that people have a hard time grasping?

Because it has NOTHING to do with common sense OR logic, even when viewed in-context. You're arguing that the awesome N7 suite that Shepard wears, giving him/her a very limited timeframe that he can be outside of his/her Mako on certain planets, can save him/her from burning up and then hitting the ground at terminal velocity. This is without even addressing what kinetic barries DON'T protect from: radiation, temperature, etc.

tl;dr: Don't go espouting for others to see the common sense and logic in your fallacious posts.

Modifié par Dr. Peter Venkman, 17 août 2010 - 05:47 .

[TheLonePolack]

In theory, Shepard could have survived the fall. A human can only go so fast, especially on a world where the gravity is .8 of earth gravity. Not to mention he has a suit of armor. The world then Normandy went down on is clearly a snowy winter world. Some time ago, a Serbian (IIRC) flight attendant fell some 30,000 feet out of a ruptured jet liner, achieved terminal velocity, and landed in a massive snowbank. She survived, despite being severely injured. If Shepard did something similar, with the planets lower gravity and his suit of armor, he might have survived the descent.