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[Kacynski]

V-rex wrote...

Still, Bioware promised that the reason that Ash/Kaidan weren't in the picture was so that they couldn't be killed off for some future role in Mass Effect 3. I sincerely hope that is true.

QFT

We will not know for certain what the ultimate fate for our Ash shall be until the release of ME3.

I hope you forgive me for my slightly off-topic topic :innocent:
We have been discussing the role Ash got in ME2 and how mad we have been with that. I just want to add: I was much more mad with Liara as a LI in ME2. I mean ok, she will kiss Shepard, but then? It's all just business with her. No feelings shown at all. Not even an e-mail later on ... she just sits in her office and smiles, but that smile feels as cold as ice to me. What's your thought on that?

To make this topic more Ash-related, I will formulate it differently:
How do you think did the reunion with Ashley feel in comparison to the reunion with other ME1 love interests?

I do not have a single ME1-import with Kaidan alive (and this is only owed to the fact, that Ash is so awesome, has nothing to do with Kaidan ... ^^), so I can't comment on that, but as you can see above, I was much more irritated by Liara's behaviour than with Ash.

[Lord Zeuss]

Kacynski wrote...

V-rex wrote...

Still, Bioware promised that the reason that Ash/Kaidan weren't in the picture was so that they couldn't be killed off for some future role in Mass Effect 3. I sincerely hope that is true.

QFT

We will not know for certain what the ultimate fate for our Ash shall be until the release of ME3.

I hope you forgive me for my slightly off-topic topic :innocent:
We have been discussing the role Ash got in ME2 and how mad we have been with that. I just want to add: I was much more mad with Liara as a LI in ME2. I mean ok, she will kiss Shepard, but then? It's all just business with her. No feelings shown at all. Not even an e-mail later on ... she just sits in her office and smiles, but that smile feels as cold as ice to me. What's your thought on that?

To make this topic more Ash-related, I will formulate it differently:
How do you think did the reunion with Ashley feel in comparison to the reunion with other ME1 love interests?

I do not have a single ME1-import with Kaidan alive (and this is only owed to the fact, that Ash is so awesome, has nothing to do with Kaidan ... ^^), so I can't comment on that, but as you can see above, I was much more irritated by Liara's behaviour than with Ash.

I disagree that Liara's appearance was lesser. Aside from the fact that she is on Ilium all the time and the player can go see her whenever, *and* that there are much larger plans for her than for Ashley/Kaidan, it only takes a few conversations (granted, also a few terminal hacks) to tell that she still holds a great deal of emotional attachment  to Shepard (maybe even too much attachment). I think it's unrealistic to expect her to be open and gushy about her feelings for Shepard all the time whenever you speak to her. (If anyone wants to take this subject a bit further, just drop me a PM.)

Back to Ashley, however, I did feel cheated that the Liara fans can go see their sweetheart any time they want, but Ash has one scene where you get to say some highly suspect lines and then she's whiosked out of the game as fast as possible. The email more or less preserves the integrity of her character, but it's still a copout and it only applies on playthroughs with a Shepard who romanced her in the first game.

There's also the added frustration that Liara was given the proverbial spotlight and is getting her own DLC--more attention than Ashley/Kaidan will ever get because Bioware can't bank on them because they were made interchangeable. So I default toward feeling that Ash and Kaidan were thrown in on the cheap because Bioware were more interested in Liara, but with all things considered, all the appearances from the ME1 LI's are probably on equal footing. At least as things currently stand. Once the Liara DLC hits, who knows.

Ash and Kaidan were just never as important to Bioware.

Modifié par Lord Zeuss, 20 août 2010 - 02:23 .

[pprrff]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Kacynski wrote...

V-rex wrote...

Still, Bioware promised that the reason that Ash/Kaidan weren't in the picture was so that they couldn't be killed off for some future role in Mass Effect 3. I sincerely hope that is true.

QFT

We will not know for certain what the ultimate fate for our Ash shall be until the release of ME3.

I hope you forgive me for my slightly off-topic topic :innocent:
We have been discussing the role Ash got in ME2 and how mad we have been with that. I just want to add: I was much more mad with Liara as a LI in ME2. I mean ok, she will kiss Shepard, but then? It's all just business with her. No feelings shown at all. Not even an e-mail later on ... she just sits in her office and smiles, but that smile feels as cold as ice to me. What's your thought on that?

To make this topic more Ash-related, I will formulate it differently:
How do you think did the reunion with Ashley feel in comparison to the reunion with other ME1 love interests?

I do not have a single ME1-import with Kaidan alive (and this is only owed to the fact, that Ash is so awesome, has nothing to do with Kaidan ... ^^), so I can't comment on that, but as you can see above, I was much more irritated by Liara's behaviour than with Ash.

I disagree that Liara's appearance was lesser. Aside from the fact that she is on Ilium all the time and the player can go see her whenever, *and* that there are much larger plans for her than for Ashley/Kaidan, it only takes a few conversations (granted, also a few terminal hacks) to tell that she still holds a great deal of emotional attachment  to Shepard (maybe even too much attachment). I think it's unrealistic to expect her to be open and gushy about her feelings for Shepard all the time whenever you speak to her. (If anyone wants to take this subject a bit further, just drop me a PM.)

Back to Ashley, however, I did feel cheated that the Liara fans can go see their sweetheart any time they want, but Ash has one scene where you get to say some highly suspect lines and then she's whiosked out of the game as fast as possible. The email more or less preserves the integrity of her character, but it's still a copout and it only applies on playthroughs with a Shepard who romanced her in the first game.

There's also the added frustration that Liara was given the proverbial spotlight and is getting her own DLC--more attention than Ashley/Kaidan will ever get because Bioware can't bank on them because they were made interchangeable. So I default toward feeling that Ash and Kaidan were thrown in on the cheap because Bioware were more interested in Liara, but with all things considered, all the appearances from the ME1 LI's are probably on equal footing. At least as things currently stand. Once the Liara DLC hits, who knows.

Ash and Kaidan were just never as important to Bioware.

I wouldn't say it's their fault. The DLC was based off the graphic novel, and they couldn't do that for the human squad mates because one of them is suppose to be dead. If you want blame them for anything, I would say Virmire, because that more than anything is probably why the human companions' arc has to be wriiten to be as generic as possible, and then they can only appear within a context of a spefic game playthrough. So to I contradict what  said at the begining, yes it's bioware fault because of stupid Virmiire.

[V-rex]

Okay, new day, new topic for discussion:



Outside of military uniforms, what kind of clothes do you think Ashley would wear?



I for one would say very simple and practical clothes. I don't see her as being the sort of woman who would wear the elaborate dresses that women wore on the Citadel. So perhaps plain shirt, jeans, a jacket and boots. A sort of a working girl look.

Alternatively I could perhaps see her occasionally trying out more 'stylish' jackets and pants but only on rare occassions.

What say you, rest of the thread?

[VutaatVerd]

V-rex wrote...

Okay, new day, new topic for discussion:

Outside of military uniforms, what kind of clothes do you think Ashley would wear?

I for one would say very simple and practical clothes. I don't see her as being the sort of woman who would wear the elaborate dresses that women wore on the Citadel. So perhaps plain shirt, jeans, a jacket and boots. A sort of a working girl look.
Alternatively I could perhaps see her occasionally trying out more 'stylish' jackets and pants but only on rare occassions.
What say you, rest of the thread?

I'll just is an awsome picture, she would wear this.

[V-rex]

Ah yes of course.



A man can dream anyway.



*hint, Bioware, make this her alternate outfit!

[Batlass8]

I think V-rex is right. Casual, functional clothes seem like the best fit for Ash. Maybe sneakers instead of boots though. Because boots are great, but sneakers are sooo comfortable.



Not to mention that I can't see her in a skirt, anyway.

[Funkcase]

I dont realy see Ash wearing dresses and make up, like V-rex and Batlass8 said she would probably wear casual clothes, jeans, trainers ect. And for some reason I can picture sun glasses on her, Silvers avatar probably played no small part in that though, lol.

Probably stuff like this:



I can actually maybe see her wear a dress on a very, very, rare occasion, like her sisters would have to literally force her in one if she has a date or something, lol. I guess that is one of the biggest appeals to Ash though, she's natural, natural beauty, she dosent have to wear make up, or wear dresses to look good.

Modifié par Funkcase, 20 août 2010 - 06:37 .

[Lord Zeuss]

Funkcase wrote...
I can actually maybe see her wear a dress on a very, very, rare occasion, like her sisters would have to literally force her in one if she has a date or something, lol. I guess that is one of the biggest appeals to Ash though, she's natural, natural beauty, she dosent have to wear make up, or wear dresses to look good.

You're right on that count, Funk.

[epoch_]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Funkcase wrote...
I can actually maybe see her wear a dress on a very, very, rare occasion, like her sisters would have to literally force her in one if she has a date or something, lol. I guess that is one of the biggest appeals to Ash though, she's natural, natural beauty, she dosent have to wear make up, or wear dresses to look good.

You're right on that count, Funk.

My big draw to her is that her character by far feels the most real.

[KendallX23]

we really need serious topics around here...but there seems to be none left with the material we have



what clothes she wears outside he rmilitary work...i really don't care...she could wear anything if u ask me...

[Funkcase]

KendallX23 wrote...

we really need serious topics around here...but there seems to be none left with the material we have

what clothes she wears outside he rmilitary work...i really don't care...she could wear anything if u ask me...

Not all topics have to be so serious, it is Ash related, and we  never see her out of uniform so there is nothing wrong in discussing it. If you have any concerns please post them in the ''Ashley Williams for ME3'' group.


New topic:

What if ashley DID rejoin your sqaud in ME2? How do you think the romantic story would have played out, and would Ashley's abondonment of the Alliance to join Cerberus have changed your opinion of her?

The romance would have played out very different, as Ash agreeing to work with Cerberus would mean no argument on Horizon, but I am sure she will have tons of questions for Shepard, and Miranda seeing as she was the Lazarus project lead.

My opinion on Ash wouldn't have changed, as she was helping us in ME2 anyway, she was just working for the Alliance, and the council as Anderson approved of the mission. I would wonder how it would effect her family name in the Alliance though, and if her family would feel betrayed? Or if they would believe her about the Reapers? As there close bond would no doubt make it easy for them to read if Ashley is telling the truth.

[KendallX23]

i would have liked if Ash would have left the Alliance to come with us...don't like the Alliance...not that i like Cerberus...but Ash would be working with us...so i would not change my opinion of her at all.

But her joining the squad would have made me choose a squad of soldiers...as i loved taking Jacob with me...and since Ashley is a must..and my Sheps are always soldiers...well..u know...

Romance ?well i don't know...pretty much the same i guess..after knowing what happened to Shep after the COllector attack and possibly discussing Ashley working with Cerberus

[Lord Zeuss]

Ashley's character would have to be different in order for her to agree to work with Cerberus. I actually liked how she didn't simply bend her convictions on the matter to suit what she thought Shepard wanted. Her answer was no, she wasn't working for an extremist organization no matter what Shepard said, because that's who she is. Had she said "Well, I don't like Cerberus, but it's alright if you say so, Shepard" and rejoined your squad despite her misgivings, I would probably have lost some respect for her because one of the main reasons I like her so much is she is not dependent on Shepard to define her character or the choices she is going to make. She is 100% her own person, and Shepard is fortunate to have her by his side in ME1.

[V-rex]

I agree with the above statement. I think in the end people just got mad about how she responded on Horizon even though I still think she was justified to be hurt and confused.

Plus a lot of people clearly overlooked the email.



Anyway, my answer:

I could see it as being very tricky and quite emotionally conflicted. I still am not sure I could see Ashley agreeing to go onto a Cerberus ship although she might have less difficulty if Garrus, Tali, Joker and Chatwas were there because at least then there would be familiar faces.

I think on an emotional level though she would be struggling between wanting to continue living her life and reestablishing her old feelings for Shepard and wouldn't be sure which was which and perhaps eventually, for better or for worse, her emotions would get the better of her and either end with her tearfully leaving the Normandy or giving in to her temptation and passionately falling in love with Shepard once again.

At the same time I suspect there would be a lot of difficulties from a political standpoint too and she would be kind of ashamed of herself for abandoning her duty to serve the Alliance. This wouldn't look good from any side of the argument and the Ashley/Shepard love affair would result in a lot of controversy and possibly even be considered a scandal.



It would be complicated to say the least and I prefer the idea of the relationship being put on a stand still but with hope on the horizon and a chance for a better future waiting to be resolved in Mass Effect 3.

[Giggles_Manically]

I didnt overlook her email on my Colonial Sole Survivor, he was my first Ash as LI import.

After Horizon her email took until about two missions before the IFF to show up.

So I thought it was over, and had already told Tali "I dont want anyone else I want you", so I sat there and thought to myself "I am a bad man".



Seriously I was so annoyed that it didnt show up, but I had no idea what I was going to do for a while. Decided that, that specific shep would go with Tali, and become some wierd AU run.

Dosent matter I have two other runs that romanced her, and had the email arrive on time.

[Pacifien]

So V-rex's visit to the Jack thread got me thinking about something regarding Ashley. From her conversation with Shepard, it appears she assumes everyone finds out about her connection to General Williams of Shanxi eventually. That connection seems strong enough for previous officers to hold whatever grudge against her grandfather against Ashley as well -- can't say anything publicly against her, but can damn well not give her a chance to succeed.



But that's for the officers, so thinking about the fellow grunts. Do you think Ashley is the sort to stand in silence as others possibly taunt her about it, or do you think she starts fighting back? Verbally fights back, as I'm sure physically fighting back would have made it onto her record. Part of me thinks she'd work hard at being such a model Alliance soldier, she'll seethe on the inside but never snap back at a fellow soldier. But that seems more Alenko's style, standing silently as he's probably taunted for being a biotic.



Actually, can see Ashley taking her revenge on the sparring ring. Which makes me think she could take Garrus on in a fight. See whose reach or flexibility wins there.

[Lord Zeuss]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I didnt overlook her email on my Colonial Sole Survivor, he was my first Ash as LI import.
After Horizon her email took until about two missions before the IFF to show up.
So I thought it was over, and had already told Tali "I dont want anyone else I want you", so I sat there and thought to myself "I am a bad man".

Seriously I was so annoyed that it didnt show up, but I had no idea what I was going to do for a while. Decided that, that specific shep would go with Tali, and become some wierd AU run.
Dosent matter I have two other runs that romanced her, and had the email arrive on time.

That has the makings of a truly tragic RP.

[Giggles_Manically]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I didnt overlook her email on my Colonial Sole Survivor, he was my first Ash as LI import.
After Horizon her email took until about two missions before the IFF to show up.
So I thought it was over, and had already told Tali "I dont want anyone else I want you", so I sat there and thought to myself "I am a bad man".

Seriously I was so annoyed that it didnt show up, but I had no idea what I was going to do for a while. Decided that, that specific shep would go with Tali, and become some wierd AU run.
Dosent matter I have two other runs that romanced her, and had the email arrive on time.

That has the makings of a truly tragic RP.

I dont move on from Ash after getting her email but...
When it didnt show up i was just royally cheesed off so much that I did two other runs before deciding what to do.
Mostly when I got her email this happened:


I dont know, since Ash and Kaidans emails always show up on time, in my other runs.
Hopefully she understands but this shep is going to be wearing some steel plated under roos to be sure.

[Lord Zeuss]

Pacifien wrote...

So V-rex's visit to the Jack thread got me thinking about something regarding Ashley. From her conversation with Shepard, it appears she assumes everyone finds out about her connection to General Williams of Shanxi eventually. That connection seems strong enough for previous officers to hold whatever grudge against her grandfather against Ashley as well -- can't say anything publicly against her, but can damn well not give her a chance to succeed.

But that's for the officers, so thinking about the fellow grunts. Do you think Ashley is the sort to stand in silence as others possibly taunt her about it, or do you think she starts fighting back? Verbally fights back, as I'm sure physically fighting back would have made it onto her record. Part of me thinks she'd work hard at being such a model Alliance soldier, she'll seethe on the inside but never snap back at a fellow soldier. But that seems more Alenko's style, standing silently as he's probably taunted for being a biotic.

Actually, can see Ashley taking her revenge on the sparring ring. Which makes me think she could take Garrus on in a fight. See whose reach or flexibility wins there.

That is an excellent question, one I'm not sure I know the answer to. Certainly she would have had to deal with *some* of that, and I agree she's too disciplined to pick fights with comrades-in-arms over it, but I don't think she'd simply suffer in silence Alenko-style (not that I'm trying to diss the Kaidster, mind you). I think her razor-sharp wit would come into play here, and she'd get most of her fellow soldiers on her side just for being so awesome and not rising to the bait. However, I do think she would resent taking crap from her peers, and would use it as further motivation to make herself "better than the best", to use the Williams family words.

You have to think, she developed that sarcastic wit of hers somewhere. Anyway, I don't think she'd let herself make a scene, she'd just channel that negative energy into making herself a better soldier because that's the only she could honor her family. Picking fights would not help her cause, and I think she'd be smart enough to know that, especially if she went ahead and enlisted anyway despite knowing what the Alliance did to her family.

[Funkcase]

Pacifien wrote...

So V-rex's visit to the Jack thread got me thinking about something regarding Ashley. From her conversation with Shepard, it appears she assumes everyone finds out about her connection to General Williams of Shanxi eventually. That connection seems strong enough for previous officers to hold whatever grudge against her grandfather against Ashley as well -- can't say anything publicly against her, but can damn well not give her a chance to succeed.

But that's for the officers, so thinking about the fellow grunts. Do you think Ashley is the sort to stand in silence as others possibly taunt her about it, or do you think she starts fighting back? Verbally fights back, as I'm sure physically fighting back would have made it onto her record. Part of me thinks she'd work hard at being such a model Alliance soldier, she'll seethe on the inside but never snap back at a fellow soldier. But that seems more Alenko's style, standing silently as he's probably taunted for being a biotic.

Actually, can see Ashley taking her revenge on the sparring ring. Which makes me think she could take Garrus on in a fight. See whose reach or flexibility wins there.

Ash is a people person, so I cant see members of her squad giving her a hard time, the pre ME1 records Bioware did of Ash show this:
 
''Chief Williams' platoon has logged unanimous positive feedback on her leadership in the recent fitness review cycle. Private Nirali Bahtia praised her focus on team-building exercises and "tough but fair" discipline''



And her skill, determination and great combat instinct's seem to make some officers change there mind about her:


''During training, she certified proficient with the standard-issue M7 Lancer assault rifle and light and standard weight combat hardsuits. She completed certification in zero-gee combat aboard the Rakesh Sharma Orbital Platform in Earth geosynchronous orbit. For Hostile Environment Assault Training, she was assigned to Fort Charles Upham on Saturn's moon, Titan. She was awarded a commendation for her bold assault technique in a field exercise simulating an attack on turian point defense emplacements.
Drill Instructor Gunnery Chief Ellison noted her steadfast endurance and aggressive instincts, and promoted her to the role of squad leader. After observing her effective tutelage of the less skilled members of her training unit, he promoted her to platoon guide. She maintains a friendly correspondence with DI Ellison.''


But yes she must have recieved alot of stigma, most likely pretty early on, when the other recruits only knew her name,  the fact she was worried about being assigned to the Normandy shows this. Ash has some snappy come backs for renegade Shep, but she alI ways seems to hold her cool. So I cant see fist fights breaking out,  and i'm sure those famous snappy come backs, her skills in combat, and leadership, quickly changed the other recruites outlook on her. And yes, if someone pissed her off, I can see her getting her revenge during marine hand to hand training.

Modifié par Funkcase, 21 août 2010 - 02:57 .

[Badpie]

Funkcase wrote...


New topic:

What if ashley DID rejoin your sqaud in ME2? How do you think the romantic story would have played out, and would Ashley's abondonment of the Alliance to join Cerberus have changed your opinion of her?

Shoving aside what I thought was terrible writing on Horizon:

I would have been disappointed in Ashley if she'd joined with my Shepard.  Part of what I like about her is that she sticks to her guns, isn't easily swayed by her personal feelings and is stubborn and difficult to get through to when she's angry.  If she had joined that would mean that everything she'd been doing for the past two years she would just be chucking aside because of her feelings for Shepard.  And that's not Ash.  She has responsibilities.  She has a life after and outside of her loyalty to the man she thought had been dead for two years.  

That being said there are things I will be very disappointed with in ME3 if they should come to pass. One is:
She apologized in her email, rightfully.  She said hurtful things, but I will be angry if she turns into another Shepard worshipper in ME3, taking the entire fault for the way Horizon played out because Shepard can do no wrong.  Shepard should be apologizing too.  He didn't exactly say...well ANYTHING right (again, crappy writing, but that's too meta of me right now).

In short, even if Shepard hadn't been working with Cerberus and they'd had a fluffy lovey reunion on Horizon, I still don't know if she'd be able to join him right then.  She might want to, but like I said she has responsibilities that I'm she can't or just wouldn't toss to the side and say "sure! I wasn't working on anything important anyway because really I was just waiting for you to come back and give my life meaning and purpose.  Let's rock."

[VutaatVerd]

Hey all I have a new SS for you all.

[Giggles_Manically]

Why does it look like Shep just let one rip, and Ash and Kai are both not trying to laugh at their CO?



Also awsome SS by the way.