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[ashlover mark 2]

RazerPhoenix wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...
2. She literally cannot, she's a soldier, therefore if she joined Shepard that would be deserting, a very serious offense. Also, Cerberus is a terrorist organization, it would be extremely unwise to join up without checking up on Shepard and thinking about it for a while.

If she was certain that it was the right thing to do, considering how quickly she was willing to commit treason with Shephard, I doubt deserting would bother her too much.

yea but she KNEW in her heart that was the right thing to do.if we can say anything is that ash follows her heart and that time her heart was telling her too follow ha man.this time howeva ha heart was all ****ed up beacuz of the whole dead for two years and then NOT dead for two years thing...

Modifié par ashlover mark 2, 28 mai 2010 - 12:29 .

[drunken pyromaniac]

Some Dude wrote...

More like the Space-KKK

Nah, I had a long discussion about what organization was a proper comparison. Cerberus is a paramilitary organization with scientific and political branches. Therfore, Al-Qaida or the IRA is more apt.

[RazerPhoenix]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...
2. She literally cannot, she's a soldier, therefore if she joined Shepard that would be deserting, a very serious offense. Also, Cerberus is a terrorist organization, it would be extremely unwise to join up without checking up on Shepard and thinking about it for a while.

If she was certain that it was the right thing to do, considering how quickly she was willing to commit treason with Shephard, I doubt deserting would bother her too much.

Metagaming reason.She cannot join because the writers don't want her too.
Also, I would respect her less if she joined up with the space IRA without a second thought.

There is of course a difference between joining a cause she believes in, and joining a specific group.

But I do agree it necessary to accept that the characters decisions are based on what the writers choose, and not we feel the character would do. Although hopefully these should be the same things, but alas it never works out like that,

[Badpie]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...
2. She literally cannot, she's a soldier, therefore if she joined Shepard that would be deserting, a very serious offense. Also, Cerberus is a terrorist organization, it would be extremely unwise to join up without checking up on Shepard and thinking about it for a while.

If she was certain that it was the right thing to do, considering how quickly she was willing to commit treason with Shephard, I doubt deserting would bother her too much.

yea but she KNEW in her heart that was the right thing to do.if we can say anything is that ash follows her heart and that time her heart was telling her too follow ha man.this time howeva ha heart was all ****ed up beacuz of the whole dead for two years and then NOT dead for two years thing...

Ash never would have followed Shepard JUST because she had feelings for him.  Which we saw in ME2.  In ME1 it wasn't because she was in love with him.  It was because she believed what he was doing was right.  Ash has strong beliefs and convictions.  If she's doing something or saying something it's because she 100% believes in it - not for any other reason.  

[drunken pyromaniac]

RazerPhoenix wrote...


There is of course a difference between joining a cause she believes in, and joining a specific group.

But I do agree it necessary to accept that the characters decisions are based on what the writers choose, and not we feel the character would do. Although hopefully these should be the same things, but alas it never works out like that,

Morally, yes. Politically, no. My Shepard never joined Cerberus yet he's thought to be a Cerberus operative by all legitimate governments now.

[RazerPhoenix]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...


There is of course a difference between joining a cause she believes in, and joining a specific group.

But I do agree it necessary to accept that the characters decisions are based on what the writers choose, and not we feel the character would do. Although hopefully these should be the same things, but alas it never works out like that,

Morally, yes. Politically, no. My Shepard never joined Cerberus yet he's thought to be a Cerberus operative by all legitimate governments now.

With the stakes as high as they were, I would like to think that what people of thought him were the least of Shephards concerns, and I would like to think that Ash would have acted in what she truely believed was the right thing to do, and not just because what people may view of her because of that.

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

More like the Space-KKK

Nah, I had a long discussion about what organization was a proper comparison. Cerberus is a paramilitary organization with scientific and political branches. Therfore, Al-Qaida or the IRA is more apt.

I'd hardly call "Al-Qaida" scientific......more like stupid-rific.

If anything, Cerberus is like the IOA in the Stargate TV series...if anyone has watched that show. They say they have humanity's best interest at the top of their list and will try anything to further their goals toward what they think is best.

[Some Dude]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

More like the Space-KKK

Nah, I had a long discussion about what organization was a proper comparison. Cerberus is a paramilitary organization with scientific and political branches. Therfore, Al-Qaida or the IRA is more apt.

Makes sense.... KKK doesn't have same level of resources that Cerberus has, I guess I mean idealogy-wise they are like the KKK, but anyway.... Although Ash isn't a "Lawful" character, she still is loyal to Alliance partly because of the service record of her family, that's probably what would keep her with the Alliance..., but the writers had something to do with it as well I'm sure

[ashlover mark 2]

Badpie wrote...

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...
2. She literally cannot, she's a soldier, therefore if she joined Shepard that would be deserting, a very serious offense. Also, Cerberus is a terrorist organization, it would be extremely unwise to join up without checking up on Shepard and thinking about it for a while.

If she was certain that it was the right thing to do, considering how quickly she was willing to commit treason with Shephard, I doubt deserting would bother her too much.

yea but she KNEW in her heart that was the right thing to do.if we can say anything is that ash follows her heart and that time her heart was telling her too follow ha man.this time howeva ha heart was all ****ed up beacuz of the whole dead for two years and then NOT dead for two years thing...

Ash never would have followed Shepard JUST because she had feelings for him.  Which we saw in ME2.  In ME1 it wasn't because she was in love with him.  It was because she believed what he was doing was right.  Ash has strong beliefs and convictions.  If she's doing something or saying something it's because she 100% believes in it - not for any other reason.  

i kno,i was just jokeing the point im trying too make is that ash would never join cerberus even if she had all the time in the world too think about it.

[drunken pyromaniac]

RazerPhoenix wrote...


With the stakes as high as they were, I would like to think that what people of thought him were the least of Shephards concerns, and I would like to think that Ash would have acted in what she truely believed was the right thing to do, and not just because what people may view of her because of that.

The thing is, she didn't believe Shepard at first. Later yes, but not when she could join up.

[Lord Zeuss]

ashlover mark 2 wrote...

yfhfrg wrote...

How much actually changes if you 'paragon' Ash anyway? I one of your conversations goes a little differently and she says you made her start believing in the Council. Is there anything else?

she tells you to save the council no matter who you bring with you.

Really? Even if you have Liara with you?

[Radahldo]

Yes, liara is renegade with default kaidan, and renegade with paragon Ash.

It's mostly just gameplay mechanics, though, since someone has to present the suggestion of leaving the council to die

[drunken pyromaniac]

Some Dude wrote...

Makes sense.... KKK doesn't have same level of resources that Cerberus has, I guess I mean idealogy-wise they are like the KKK, but anyway.... Although Ash isn't a "Lawful" character, she still is loyal to Alliance partly because of the service record of her family, that's probably what would keep her with the Alliance..., but the writers had something to do with it as well I'm sure

Idealogy-wise I agree on.
I never said she wasn't loyal, Chaotic Good characters are perfectly capable of loyalty. Not to mention, you're supposed to be loyal to your country not your government.

[RazerPhoenix]

Some Dude wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

More like the Space-KKK

Nah, I had a long discussion about what organization was a proper comparison. Cerberus is a paramilitary organization with scientific and political branches. Therfore, Al-Qaida or the IRA is more apt.

Makes sense.... KKK doesn't have same level of resources that Cerberus has, I guess I mean idealogy-wise they are like the KKK, but anyway.... Although Ash isn't a "Lawful" character, she still is loyal to Alliance partly because of the service record of her family, that's probably what would keep her with the Alliance..., but the writers had something to do with it as well I'm sure

I would have to majorily disagree, Cerberus do not have any form of hatred towards other species and to compare them to the KKK I would call being very arrogant.

Cerberus main objective is protect humanties interests and further human development as much as possible and in doing so may involve confrontations and conflicts with alien species. However they do not purposely aim to attack all other species or to wipe them out and retain full control of the galaxy.

To paraphrase Kelly, "My sister opened up a dog shelter, but that doesn't mean she doesn't like cats or any other animal"

[Lord Zeuss]

Radahldo wrote...

Yes, liara is renegade with default kaidan, and renegade with paragon Ash.
It's mostly just gameplay mechanics, though, since someone has to present the suggestion of leaving the council to die

I would honestly have to see that to believe it.

[RazerPhoenix]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...


With the stakes as high as they were, I would like to think that what people of thought him were the least of Shephards concerns, and I would like to think that Ash would have acted in what she truely believed was the right thing to do, and not just because what people may view of her because of that.

The thing is, she didn't believe Shepard at first. Later yes, but not when she could join up.

Thats what I said earlier, I very much agree Ash would never have joined Shephard on Horizon, but later after she has emailed him and had to time to reflect, had he asked her again I am certain she would have being more willing to assist Shepard.

This doesn't mean she instantly became a Cerberus supporter though as many people seem to think I suggested.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think actually Liara is renegade with Default Kaiden at the Council but Paragon at the Rachni Queen decision, interestingly enough.



The funny thing about the council decision is that I keep imagining Wrex's thought process if one brings Renegade Kaiden to the Council.



"Man, those council members are ungrateful idiots. Shepard should simply leave them to- wait Kaiden just suggested that before me! Man, now if I agree with him I'll just seem like a copy cat. I'd better say the opposite just to give Shepard the benefit of opposing viewpoints."



Although I guess it'd be silly if the conversation also went like this:



Kaiden: "You can't sacrifice human lives for the council. What have they ever done for us?"



Wrex: "Yep. Just kill em Shepard."

[drunken pyromaniac]

RazerPhoenix wrote...


Thats what I said earlier, I very much agree Ash would never have joined Shephard on Horizon, but later after she has emailed him and had to time to reflect, had he asked her again I am certain she would have being more willing to assist Shepard.

This doesn't mean she instantly became a Cerberus supporter though as many people seem to think I suggested.

By that point though she cannot join him, she doesn't have a ship.

[Badpie]

Radahldo wrote...

Yes, liara is renegade with default kaidan, and renegade with paragon Ash.
It's mostly just gameplay mechanics, though, since someone has to present the suggestion of leaving the council to die

Hey Radahldo! *waves*

I remember this being a big beef with a lot of people including myself.  People were saying things that wouldn't be in character for them at that moment.  It was annoying.   I did enjoy Ash being the one to double tap Saren, BUT I had to take someone like Liara with me in order to get that.  If I'd taken Wrex he totally would have done that.

Ash is hardcore.

[Badpie]

Let's bring this back around to Ash soon.

[Lord Zeuss]

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

RazerPhoenix wrote...


Thats what I said earlier, I very much agree Ash would never have joined Shephard on Horizon, but later after she has emailed him and had to time to reflect, had he asked her again I am certain she would have being more willing to assist Shepard.

This doesn't mean she instantly became a Cerberus supporter though as many people seem to think I suggested.

By that point though she cannot join him, she doesn't have a ship.

ZING! Yeah, that would seem to be a slight problem in the 'joining Shepard' department.

[Some Dude]

RazerPhoenix wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

drunken pyromaniac wrote...

Some Dude wrote...

More like the Space-KKK

Nah, I had a long discussion about what organization was a proper comparison. Cerberus is a paramilitary organization with scientific and political branches. Therfore, Al-Qaida or the IRA is more apt.

Makes sense.... KKK doesn't have same level of resources that Cerberus has, I guess I mean idealogy-wise they are like the KKK, but anyway.... Although Ash isn't a "Lawful" character, she still is loyal to Alliance partly because of the service record of her family, that's probably what would keep her with the Alliance..., but the writers had something to do with it as well I'm sure

I would have to majorily disagree, Cerberus do not have any form of hatred towards other species and to compare them to the KKK I would call being very arrogant.

Cerberus main objective is protect humanties interests and further human development as much as possible and in doing so may involve confrontations and conflicts with alien species. However they do not purposely aim to attack all other species or to wipe them out and retain full control of the galaxy.

To paraphrase Kelly, "My sister opened up a dog shelter, but that doesn't mean she doesn't like cats or any other animal"

I wouldn't use Kelly as evidence, she is really naive....
I don't think Cerberus wants to wipe out all aliens (all species have advantages over others)
But come on, all the lines about how Cerberus only wants to "advance" human interests sounds very much like the KKK or other pro-white groups when they march down the street for "white power". TIM wants humans to dominate the galaxy, if not then why keep existing? The Alliance either has a voice in galatic politcs, or completely runs the whole show. Wouldn't that make a group like Cerberus unnecessary? Also, Cerberus wants to create super-soldiers, and Cerberus experiments on people in ME1. Sounds very much like the **** idea of creating a pure Aryan race. Whatever TIM says to Shepard is just good PR, so a possibly Paragon Shepard wouldn't betray him later on. Also, Miranda says that many people that join Cerberus join because they are bigoted against aliens. Sorry, they look like an organization that has a KKK-like idealogy, with IRA level resources.

[Radahldo]

Hey Radahldo! *waves*

I remember this being a big beef with a lot of people including myself. People were saying things that wouldn't be in character for them at that moment. It was annoying. I did enjoy Ash being the one to double tap Saren, BUT I had to take someone like Liara with me in order to get that. If I'd taken Wrex he totally would have done that.

Ash is hardcore.

Hi

It's tolerable up until the council decision. With the rachni, it's Kaidan: "these acid tanks are here for a reason" ; Ash: "I don't want these things hurting my family" and etc. But with the Council, everyone is "they've done nothing for us" Its just so lacking in effort/individuality. It's just not plausible for every character to think like that.

Modifié par Radahldo, 28 mai 2010 - 12:57 .

[Some Dude]

My above post's "swear word" started with an N and ended with an I, in case no one understands....