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[GhostSeraph]

If no ME2 DLC is in the make, I'm hoping she reappears in ME3. Shepard's looking REALLY lonely awkwardly staring at that picture and having awkward conversations where the camera carefully focuses on the bed. Ashley needs some kind of love if the smurf gets her own DLC.

[PrinceLionheart]

I've taken to replaying ME1, "rebuilding" my Shep. I'm almost forgot how much I missed having Ash in my squad. Romance aside, she's still my favorite female in the game.

[Phobius9]

I wonder what Ash will have to say about your resurrection, being a Christian and all? Might be an interesting conversation to bring up: "Was there an afterlife, what did you see?" It'd be even more interesting if there's an option to say "I saw nothing. I was just dead" which then starts Ash questioning her faith etc.

[Mox Ruuga]

Phobius9 wrote...

I wonder what Ash will have to say about your resurrection, being a Christian and all? Might be an interesting conversation to bring up: "Was there an afterlife, what did you see?" It'd be even more interesting if there's an option to say "I saw nothing. I was just dead" which then starts Ash questioning her faith etc.

Ugh! I hope not... And no offense meant, truly.

There is lots of potential in there, but we don't need for it to have negative character potential for Ash. I'd much rather just have her instill faith in a doubting Shepard, with possible avenues again for both non-religious and religious Shepards, just like you could agree or disagree with her views in ME1.

The LIs were a source of strength for Shepard in his/her single moment of weakness during the locker scene in ME1. Shepard is normally so self sufficient and doubt free, I'd like to see it repeated, just like LotSB had the "frustrated" dialogue option for Shepard.

[Lord Zeuss]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

I wonder what Ash will have to say about your resurrection, being a Christian and all? Might be an interesting conversation to bring up: "Was there an afterlife, what did you see?" It'd be even more interesting if there's an option to say "I saw nothing. I was just dead" which then starts Ash questioning her faith etc.

Ugh! I hope not... And no offense meant, truly.

There is lots of potential in there, but we don't need for it to have negative character potential for Ash. I'd much rather just have her instill faith in a doubting Shepard, with possible avenues again for both non-religious and religious Shepards, just like you could agree or disagree with her views in ME1.

The LIs were a source of strength for Shepard in his/her single moment of weakness during the locker scene in ME1. Shepard is normally so self sufficient and doubt free, I'd like to see it repeated, just like LotSB had the "frustrated" dialogue option for Shepard.

Agreed, Mox. Shepard shouldn't be helping Ash with her doubts (there's already too much of that if you ask me), it should be the other way around. (I also don't think "I saw nothing, I was dead" is anything worth questioning faith over, Lazarus comes to mind.)

[Yana Montana]

PrinceLionheart wrote...
I'm almost forgot how much I missed having Ash in my squad. Romance aside, she's still my favorite female in the game.

THIS!

[Phobius9]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Phobius9 wrote...

I wonder what Ash will have to say about your resurrection, being a Christian and all? Might be an interesting conversation to bring up: "Was there an afterlife, what did you see?" It'd be even more interesting if there's an option to say "I saw nothing. I was just dead" which then starts Ash questioning her faith etc.

Ugh! I hope not... And no offense meant, truly.

There is lots of potential in there, but we don't need for it to have negative character potential for Ash. I'd much rather just have her instill faith in a doubting Shepard, with possible avenues again for both non-religious and religious Shepards, just like you could agree or disagree with her views in ME1.

The LIs were a source of strength for Shepard in his/her single moment of weakness during the locker scene in ME1. Shepard is normally so self sufficient and doubt free, I'd like to see it repeated, just like LotSB had the "frustrated" dialogue option for Shepard.

Agreed, Mox. Shepard shouldn't be helping Ash with her doubts (there's already too much of that if you ask me), it should be the other way around. (I also don't think "I saw nothing, I was dead" is anything worth questioning faith over, Lazarus comes to mind.)

No effense taken.  Believe me i much prefer you're idea, I was merely "throwing it out there". Partly because I just thought of it, and partly to bump the thread back up to the first page again

[Mox Ruuga]

Phobius9 wrote...

No effense taken.  Believe me i much prefer you're idea, I was merely "throwing it out there". Partly because I just thought of it, and partly to bump the thread back up to the first page again

Cool!

I've just started to tread more lightly in character fandom threads. You never know which topic is something that will cause the forum to explode in your face...

But I'm sure we'd all like something more "soulful" to chat with when we meet Ash again. The whole existential and spiritual factor about Project Lazarus has been kept silent about. The hypothetical VS DLC would be an excellent opportunity to finally "go there".

I imagine Ash and Kaidan could both have potentially very interesting views on the subject.

Wouldn't it be ironic for Ash to throw the "I hope he isn't a zombie" line jokingly back in Shepard's face? As a joke to break the tension? Miranda and Shep were allowed to tease each other in their romance, and IIRC Ash and Shep had playful lines as well (Ash being someone who's never struck dumb by even the crasser things Shep comes up with).

Either something that starts off as poignant and heavy, and ends up with both easing up (but comfortable now with the subject), or playful banter that goes off into existential depths, and allows Shepard to come to better terms with his/her new existence as the "Cyborg Zombie Skipper".

Ah, I miss Ash.

[Lord Zeuss]

Cyborg Zombie Skipper, I love it! And how just like Ash.

[Lord Zeuss]

shadowhawk233 wrote...

So no one has anything to say about my comments?

I just can't think of a way to bring it back to talking about Ash. Unless, of course, ah, Ash wanted to find out *how much* of Shepard was still human. Er, maybe I'll not go there.

[V-rex]

....Just went back to the Youtube comment section on the Ashley Williams reuinion in Mass Effect 2.
.... Never doing that again... man. It's just a wretched hive of scum and villany, and poor spelling and flaming and debate points that sound like they are coming from a chimp with a wrench in its brain.
Okay, gotta relax here:



That's better. Plus the addition of actual rational minded people making arguments in her defence helps a bit.

Okay anyway, back to the topic as it seems to be:
I actually think that, given the chance, Ashley would actually avoid asking Shepard about the great beyond, I mean partly because it's a little bit socially unacceptable to just straight up ask a question like that but also because she might be afraid that it could jeapordize her beliefs.

I mean think about it, if you were about to ask a question that would either confirm or falsify a very important aspect of your life, wouldn't you be hesitant? I mean she's happily managed to live a normal life with religious beliefs up until now even though there was no way to prove or disprove it.

So if she finally asks the big question, and it turns out that there is no afterlife then there goes the idea that her dad, Kaiden and the people of her platoon are in a better place, it would make death so much more painful to go through and would probably make her see the world in a much darker light.
Similarly if it was confirmed then what's the point of even still holding onto any kind of belief. The difference between believing something and knowing something is pretty big and without that slight uncertainty then it kind of loses the spark of life that it had in the first place.

All things considered, I think Ashley would rather keep it a mystery, one way or the other. To use a quote from the Hitchikers Guide:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," Says God. "For proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."
"But,'' says man. "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, it proves you do exist and so therefore, you don't."
"Oh dear," says God. "I hadn't thought of that."
And promptly vanishes into a cloud of logic.

If that can be said for a simple joke in a novel it can probably be said ten fold regarding actual beliefs.

Modifié par V-rex, 13 octobre 2010 - 01:34 .

[Yana Montana]

V-rex wrote...

Yep. This picture does wonders to my spirits.

[Phobius9]

You know the more I read posts about it, the more I hope they have Shepard confront the whole being dead thing, with Ash or not. It's such a big deal and, as has been said elsewhere, brushing it off with "I got better" is just rediculous.

V-rex wrote...

So if she finally asks the big question, and it turns out that there is no afterlife then there goes the idea that her dad, Kaiden and the people of her platoon are in a better place, it would make death so much more painful to go through and would probably make her see the world in a much darker light.
Similarly if it was confirmed then what's the point of even still holding onto any kind of belief. The difference between believing something and knowing something is pretty big and without that slight uncertainty then it kind of loses the spark of life that it had in the first place.

Likewise, I believe it's possible for Shepard to say that he believes in God in ME1 (the whole, "I've been in a lot of foxholes" thing). Be that the case, that puts "religious Shepard" in something of a unique position when it comes to the "great unknown" dosn't it? It'd be interesting to have a bit of extra dialouge from Shepard about that in ME3, assuming you took that conversation option in ME1.

[Funkcase]

V-rex wrote...



I actually think that, given the chance, Ashley would actually avoid asking Shepard about the great beyond, I mean partly because it's a little bit socially unacceptable to just straight up ask a question like that but also because she might be afraid that it could jeapordize her beliefs.

I mean think about it, if you were about to ask a question that would either confirm or falsify a very important aspect of your life, wouldn't you be hesitant? I mean she's happily managed to live a normal life with religious beliefs up until now even though there was no way to prove or disprove it.

So if she finally asks the big question, and it turns out that there is no afterlife then there goes the idea that her dad, Kaiden and the people of her platoon are in a better place, it would make death so much more painful to go through and would probably make her see the world in a much darker light.
Similarly if it was confirmed then what's the point of even still holding onto any kind of belief. The difference between believing something and knowing something is pretty big and without that slight uncertainty then it kind of loses the spark of life that it had in the first place.

All things considered, I think Ashley would rather keep it a mystery, one way or the other. To use a quote from the Hitchikers Guide:

"I refuse to prove that I exist," Says God. "For proof denies faith and without faith I am nothing."
"But,'' says man. "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, it proves you do exist and so therefore, you don't."
"Oh dear," says God. "I hadn't thought of that."
And promptly vanishes into a cloud of logic.

If that can be said for a simple joke in a novel it can probably be said ten fold regarding actual beliefs.

You maybe right, how knowing if there is or aint a afterlife could alter her views and possibly her whole life. If she knows there is a afterlife she will know not to be afraid to die (although she isnt afraid to die) but if there is no afterlife, it will crush her, she might just think ''whats the point in anthing'' and give up trying, she will lose her determination.
 
It would be a hard thing for Ash to ask, although I think she will be very curious and temped to ask about it, she would probably bite her tongue though.

Also +10 for a Hitchikers guide to the galaxy quote!

Modifié par Funkcase, 13 octobre 2010 - 02:10 .

[Lord Zeuss]

*pulls out soapbox* Having no memories of an afterlife does not in any way diminish or negate its existence. Like I said, Shep not remembering anything of being dead is hardly something that I would think could cause Ashley to have doubts of her faith whatsoever. The afterlife, heaven and hell and so forth, are places *beyond this world*, and if you want to go into the body-soul aspect of things, Shepard's body never physically went to the afterlife, therefore he cannot have any memories of such since he was never physically there. Perhaps his soul has such memories, but they are not within the grasp nor under the dominion of his physical self. No memories, no crisis of faith.



Furthermore, Ashley is not and has never been solely defined by religion. It is a part of her, but there is a lot more to her than simply holding this creed or that faith (the writer deliberately skirted around any specifics, even forgoing giving the name to her particular faith so we wouldn't have to judge her for it). It's enough to know that Ashley has the capacity to think in terms of the soul, to know that there is a God and a grander purpose to everything, and to realize that Death Is Not The End. For everything else we have to look at her actions, the way she conducts herself and the way she lives; there's no prewritten schema based on religion or creed that we can look to for an easy summary of who she is.



Her religious beliefs are merely a facet of her character. I would be disappointed if they were to become more.



*puts soapbox away*

[Giggles_Manically]

I find it strange that people spaz over Ashley being religious yet:

Thane and Samara run around shouting religious quotes in battle and you can talk to Thane about his religion outright.



Why do people not have a problem with them being religious?

[V-rex]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

Snipped although nonetheless epic.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and I apologize if it seemed like I might have said something to contradict such a mindset. Indeed religious beliefs and spirituality are only one part of Ashley's character and certainly should not be a core part of her to be focussed on, especially with all the people screaming about her being a 'fanatic' on the interwebs.
All I was saying was that, if given the choice, Ashley would probably (in my opinion anyway) not want a truth, one way or another, revealed to her and in all likelyhood would rather just keep her faith. That's all, I certainly don't think her religious beliefs are all that extreme and I don't think that they would make up such a huge epic sized part of her.

Again, I apologize if I in any way came across as one of those people who label her as a fanatic, because I most certainly am NOT trying to.

[Lord Zeuss]

Giggles_Manically wrote...

I find it strange that people spaz over Ashley being religious yet:
Thane and Samara run around shouting religious quotes in battle and you can talk to Thane about his religion outright.

Why do people not have a problem with them being religious?

Because they aren't humans. I swear, sometimes the Mass Effect crowd can be the most misanthropic mob...

@v-rex: Don't worry, I know what you meant.

[Giggles_Manically]

Outside of the first line I can get through Horizon without sound like a complete idiot I think.

Still I hate going from this, to what happens.